i know i should make my own but the price is very enticing has anybody used these and how did they flex and hold up they are going on an xj w 8" of lift and a daily driver also if anybody has them i would really appreciate if they would take measurements so i could copy them??

andrew

ummm....search?

been there and done it

they suck or used to. Aparently they never figured out how to use a welder and quite a few of the XJ guys on JU have had weld failures on arms, trackbars, ect. It's suppost to be under new managment now, but I still don't know if they have their heads out of their asses yet.

and if you didn't find anything by searching then your probably on the wrong board.

i found some stuff but not what i was looking for it seems like everybody has a friend or cousin that has destroyed their stuff very few speek from actual experiences they also changed their arm design. i mean the brackets do look weak but the arms seem really strong the brackets can be reinforced and at that price i would not mind reinforcing their brackets

Their coils and shocks suck, I imagine the rest of their stuff is crap also. Their are better alternatives.

so exactly what sux about these kits? how do the coils suck?

Try searching again. I know I posted a few pics on here of my shit broken. :rolleyes:

I still don't think i would trust them yet but they revamped all the kits the stuff they have out now does look better.

But looks to heavy they use solid tubing now.

They've always used solid stock for everything and don't seem interested in change even if solid isn't that much stronger then 1/4 wall not to mention harder to get good welds. I prefer not to support people that are ignorant of actual design practises.

When I read RK horror stories, I post them on a local board I frequent. I put it over there since pirate4x4 isn't really a bolt-on tech board. (hint hint)

Clicky (http://www.michiganjeepers.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB2&Number=293824&Forum=f2) for RK horror stories

YEAH I KNOW EVERYBODY HATES BOLT ON AROUND HERE THE PRICE SEEMED RIGHT BUT ALL THE BROKEN SHIT GUESS I WILL FAB MY OWN NOW SO TO THE DRAWING BOARD I GO ANY IDEAS ON WHAT WORKS BEST GREATLY APPRECIATED

There are other people making kits, try SEARCHING. :flipoff2:

you want an awesome kit go with Full tractions 6" Long Arm kit.

Oh and 8" is way to high, 6 is all you need.

Rock Krawler Suspension has been under new ownership since March of 2003. We developed the revolutionary new coil over IFS system for Chevy/GMC trucks and it took us a while to see what we had as far as the jeep products are concerned. Our newer product offerings are revolutionary and you will also see our philosophy of our 3 independent control arms and track bar on the rear of the 2005 Mustang GT. We will extend anyone from Pirate 4x4 a 15% discount on our products just to prove to all you doubters what are products have become. All of the subject matter people here are mentioning is way old and no longer a concern. We will prove it to you in the very near future. We addressed the issue on Jeeps Unlimited, however we just recently learned about this forum and are more than happy to address any concerns.

Rock Krawler

this is gonna get ugly :D

Unless you've changed the shocks and coils, they are still crap. My shocks blew craps in less than a year and you guys wouldnt replace them. The coils were also too soft.

Well i know a buddy of mine used to have the RK kit on his cherokee and the welds broke away on the arms. He was lucky that he noticed it in the parking lot because the 3 link with one less arm is not very good :eek: . RK shipped him a new set of arms and everything which he sold. It may be under new management but personaly it is hard to put my life in the hands of a company that has been the sorce of so many things going wrong. And also as stated above...8" is pretty tall. If you are wanting 35's or even 37's 6" will be plenty if you cut your fenders.

Rock Krawler, before you get carried away in telling us about your product line you need to get a yellow vendor star to "pimp" you products.

I have had the RockKrawler 4" longarm kit on my TJ since July and nothing has broke yet. The only problems I have had is that the front "weld on axle bracket" for the tri-link hits the frame all the time when I am out wheeling. I have been thinking about changing to the new upper link design that they just put out. I spoke with them a few weeks ago and they said they changed the design because of the failures related to the "weld on bracket" breaking at axle weld. I am also thinking about making a quick disconnect upper control arm for the passengers side to use during highway driving , just in case the tri-link snaps. It has also began to sag in the rear and shocks seem too short. On the bright side the kit does flex alot and it has helped me get up and over tough sections on the trails.

Originally posted by Weasel
Rock Krawler, before you get carried away in telling us about your product line you need to get a yellow vendor star to "pimp" you products.

Ha:D :D

my $.02

i run a rk 6.5 long arm lift on my xj. i am very happy with it. i have had no problems with any part of it. i think the front spring rate it good. but thats my opinion. i have sence gave that to my dad and am building a new xj and i bought the rk super 8 kit with the rear coilover conversion. i really like this kit the way its setup. yes i know i should have built my own but with working 2 jobs and everything else that was not a option. the new kit will be going on in a few weeks so i will let you all know how it works.


jeff

Originally posted by tnjeep
I spoke with them a few weeks ago and they said they changed the design because of the failures related to the "weld on bracket" breaking at axle weld.


BINGO! and their trackbar broke too. Funny part is I redesigned their kit way before they did! Then got smart, cut all the shit off, and built my own! :flipoff2:


BTW Rockkrawler new owner guy. Since you were offering solutions to everyones problems with your shit on JU...how about offering up a new set of leafs for the wiped out W shaped ones of yours I got now? Figured you might want to help an ex customer out seeing as how your shit almost fawkin KILLED ME!!! :mad:


Better yet...keep your leaf springs! I'll get my own made locally.
Fix your issue with your paper thin bushing mounts welded to that necessary solid stock bar ripping the fawk apart problem yet?

And why is this bolt on, no tech shit still here and not in newbie?
Why has Rockkrawler not joined the band? :flipoff2:

There is a reason Rockcrawler is cheap.
Scott

my buddy has a RK 8 inch and the "upper arm" ripped off in a parking lot when he was turning around:eek: they sent him all new stuff "arms anyway" and even though the new stuff looks better, his rear springs sag like old ass to one side and its has more body roll than anything ive been in. it might be redone but the their kit of any kind is not for me.

Wow. This bulletin board is tough.....

Let's take this one step at a time.

Bushwacker.

What is your vehicle setup? What else are or were you running in your vehicle???

74_Chevota

Do you care to elaborate on your situation?

Weasel and Jeapin America.com

Sorry we do not get it. Must be an inside chat room thing??

Mike_Lib

What is the time frame you are refering too with everything going down? We have new ownership and new management. We actually feel like we listen to the customer and take what they have to say to heart.

jeep94xj

R U the same one as on JU??? Can you please put a time frame to your problem as well?

Got a buddy in ST Louis who was telling me about his badash TJ on 38's. Told me all about how he flexed better than every TJ or rock buggy out there, and he was totally stable on the street, blah, blah, blah.


So after a month or so, I got down there and was checkin it out. The Rock Krawler kit is an interesting idea, but the one UCA with Trac bar seems assinine to me, as it DOES NOT flex that well.


And, the three broken bolts in his rear diff where RK bolts the triangulated links to the diff pan spoke volumes to me, as well.

I'm goin to the shop today to build my own 4 link in the rear of my CJ. I will not bolt my entire rear suspension to the diff cover.


Rock Krawler=Cheap, over engineered Crap!

TuffJarhead.

We are not the only ones who use that bolt in diff ring. Many other companies do as well. We also have the weld in rear craddle for those who would like it. Who was your buddy? What bolts broke (i.e. what location on the diff ring). Did he have the u-bolt clamps on the bracket as well? The only person that has called us saying anything to that effect that anyone here recalls had metric bolts (wrong bolts) in the diff.. We will be glad to put any of our TJ Long Arm kits up against anything you come up with for your CJ as long as we all have the same tire size to see what you can do...

"So after a month or so, I got down there and was checkin it out. The Rock Krawler kit is an interesting idea, but the one UCA with Trac bar seems assinine to me, as it DOES NOT flex that well."

What front end are you refering to? The Gen II stuff or the older torque arm setup? The idea is the simplest form of suspension and goes back to your sophomore days of high school and the basics of geometry.

Rock Krawler,

I'm curious. I use the Tera LCG kit. How do you think your stuff compares?

4x4 Pete

How do you use the LCG kit? Mostly offroad or any on highway driving? That design and our back end work exactly the same. Their front end is a nice design, but not with conventional steering. Having a triangulated 4 link front suspenion promotes bump steer. Our design flexes just as well, but our front end geometry is designed to use conventional steering to provide bump steer free highway operation. For more information please see the link below...

http://www.rockkrawler.com/pages/questions.html

I watched a buddy totally destroy one of those POS joints while on the trail. While it was not my jeep I was involved in the fix and the run. And our runs are somewhere in the neighborhood of several hours from a road, let alone a parts store. Your stuff is not reliable....yet.

It is good you are trying to fix your old ways. And it is nice to see you NOT get upset when you have to overcome the past track record set out by your company.

If you had not heard of this board before a few weeks ago....you are not intouch with the 4x4 pulse. That is a fact, not a opinion.

I have also installed your kit onto a ZJ here in Alaska (look it up there is only one in Anchorage so far I think). It was junk. I had to redo lots of stuff to make it even halfway right. Your mounting procedure just blows in the front.

Alaska ZJ

When did the joint blow out? In which location? When we moved the company in March we quickly realized there was a problem with the washers (plain carbon steel) and snap rings (standard snap ring). Everyone on the customer list we carried over recieved or was suppossed to recieve rebuild kits for free. Part of the reason we went to a triangulated 4 link instead of the trilink was because customers had trouble shimming the upper joints which would cause issues if it was not done perfectly.
When did you get your ZJ kit? What is your name so we can look it up on the buyers list. We have a fair amount of customers in Alaska. What were your issues? Did you bother to call the company or just go to a bulliten board?

"If you had not heard of this board before a few weeks ago....you are not intouch with the 4x4 pulse. That is a fact, not a opinion. " That is strictly an opinion. But we thank everyone here who posts wether it be good or bad. There is always something to learn wether it be hear say or not, partial truth, fiction, or whatever... We wish to wipe the board clean and go from there. What we are trying to get across is that if you contact Rock Krawler, we are hear to listen and address every situation. If you merely go to a bulliten board no one learns anything and things tend to escalate way out of control.

Originally posted by Rock Krawler
4x4 Pete

How do you use the LCG kit? Mostly offroad or any on highway driving? That design and our back end work exactly the same. Their front end is a nice design, but not with conventional steering. Having a triangulated 4 link front suspenion promotes bump steer. Our design flexes just as well, but our front end geometry is designed to use conventional steering to provide bump steer free highway operation. For more information please see the link below...

http://www.rockkrawler.com/pages/questions.html


It's a DD. Believe it or not. I feel zero bump steer. As long as you get the drag link perfectly level with the tie rod, bump steer isn't felt. Tera use fairly stiff springs, and this probably helps the bump steer because you're not getting a lot of suspension movement. I can drive down bumpy roads with two fingers on the wheel, and it tracks straight. Another good test is to accelerate hard and then back off fast in 2nd gear. The quick movement of the suspension up and down will show up as the Jeep pulling left and right if you have bump steer. Once again, I can do this with my hand off the wheel, and it tracks straight.

I don't think front suspension feels good that uses a track bar to guide it. For all the reasons you don't use one in the rear.


edit..I just reread your answer. You are saying with stock steering. I did change to a high steer design of my own. Tera does too. Leaving the stock steering on is foolish anyway. It's a crappy design.

Originally posted by Rock Krawler
[B
"If you had not heard of this board before a few weeks ago....you are not intouch with the 4x4 pulse. That is a fact, not a opinion. " That is strictly an opinion. But we thank everyone here who posts wether it be good or bad. There is always something to learn wether it be hear say or not, partial truth, fiction, or whatever... We wish to wipe the board clean and go from there. What we are trying to get across is that if you contact Rock Krawler, we are hear to listen and address every situation. If you merely go to a bulliten board no one learns anything and things tend to escalate way out of control. [/B]

No, he's right, its pretty much fact... And don't expect to impress everyone here with the fact that you are under new ownership, as that doesn't mean shit. We will believe it when we see it.
Also, are you saying that when someone has a near death accident because your shit broke, he shouldn't tell others--but should call you all so he can be told some more bullshit and sent some replacements which will more than likely also break?

It seems to me that if you actually want to make it anywhere in the heep market, you first should change your name..then completely redesign your products. With the help of an actual wheeler, not just some engineer (as we have proved many times here that theories are just that--theories). Do you not think it would be cheaper just to do things right instead of repeatedly sending customers band-aids?:confused:

4x4 Pete
It is nice to see you went with their high steer knuckles. That will minimize the bump steer effects. It is absolutely impossible to always maintain a perfect steering relationship with a triangulated front end and a steering setup that is not on the axle. It was well documented in JP magazine when that system came out. The other effect you are describing is torque steer. Heavy springs will help minimize that as well as heavily damped shocks.

Braxton357

"No, he's right, its pretty much fact... And don't expect to impress everyone here with the fact that you are under new ownership, as that doesn't mean shit."

Actually it is opinion and that is what bulleton boards are for. That is a fact! The things we have heard about this board are another reason we did not address this board until now. We would have addressed it when we did JU and everything else.

As far as changing the name. Did Ford change their name when they had all kinds of problems a few years ago? Fat chance. What they did do is come back with some of the best products and concepts on the market today. Our opinion.

"Also, are you saying that when someone has a near death accident because your shit broke, he shouldn't tell others--but should call you all so he can be told some more bullshit and sent some replacements which will more than likely also break?"

No not in the least, however he/she does not get anywhere by merely going to a board nor does that resolve anything for that person. This person you are speaking of, did he/she recieve our Gen II setup or what did that person get? What was his/her problem to begin with?

"Do you not think it would be cheaper just to do things right instead of repeatedly sending customers band-aids?"

Absolutely

Originally posted by Rock Krawler
Wow. This bulletin board is tough.....

Let's take this one step at a time.

Bushwacker.

What is your vehicle setup? What else are or were you running in your vehicle???




97 TJ 4.0L, had your 5.5" coils on the front, converted to leafs on the rear. Had your cheap ass so called "internal bump stop" shocks, front and rear. Coils sagged like crazy, shocks blew all the oil out and were worthless, and you didnt care to replace your bad parts.

I will never spend another dime with your company. When I called to get the shocks replaced, some idiot on the phone said, that he'd never seen that before and they wouldnt do anything for me. One less customer for you, and many more that I tell not to buy your crap. I've seen your ZJ kit in person, and cant say im impressed with it either. I'll be making my own parts from now on.

Too many people are sayin "I have a buddy," or "I know thie guy" or "A friend's cousins girlfriends know someone..."

Never had liked the design of the "old" Rockcrawler suspensioin but you guys are going the right way with the new design.

I'm just impressed that with all this shit thrown at you and your handling it well. Dont see many companies care as much as you do.... but its going to take time and be tuff before you get some kind of decent name.

Rock Krawler..
Plain and simple.. say what you will, but most here won't care if you are under new ownership, if you still leave the same management in place. Also, Say what you will about the "New and Improved" products, but it will take a lot of testing of REAL customers, in REAL situations before you can make a decent name for your company again. An opinion :rolleyes:
Scott

Rock Krawler,

No it's not torque steer. I'm talking about having it in rear drive only. When the drag link wasn't level with the tie rod, it pulled in both direction as the suspension moves up and down. Once leveled off, it went away.

I'm sure if I hit some big whoops offroad. I might feel some bumpsteer. However, the amount the suspension moves on the strret. I reall y feel nothing.

"If you had not heard of this board before a few weeks ago....you are not intouch with the 4x4 pulse. That is a fact, not a opinion. "
I think the more accurate way to state this, is to determine whether you are a marketing company, or a product company, and I could give you several competing companies that in my opinion are what they are referencing. One company does not care to test thier product throughout the range of use, from street to trail to rocks, or state the products PRIMARY area of use (and the product will probably fail in other areas in order to succeed in others), compared to another company that does a fair amount of R and D, then put thier products in the hands of a user in the PRIMARY field of use to real world test it. The people who have made the above statement are your customers, and I think they have a point.
Somewhere (and I cant find it), another user has complained of the use of "solid stock". This is another example of "marketing". Those of us that have built suspension know the drawbacks associated with solid stock, as well as inherent weakness (even though to the average person it SOUNDS strong, this is misleading). You may as well use .120 wall for the lower links, and that is TOOOO weak for any ROCKRAWLER vehicle, as well as a vehicle with more horsepower or gearing than the average Zuk. Your company name even implies that u specialize in Rockcrawling. These are all valid points I think:D

TERA


I have been around and paying attention to the TJ kits for some time. I have looked at all of these lift kits and beleive that personal opinon is the first thing that people speak of. I have had a opinon of the TERA kit and beleive that this is over priced and that they mislead people around UTAH and let them buy and buy to acheive a kit that is not what they are told!!! Tere products wear out and are cheaply made. There customer support sucks. There is not a saleman in utah who will look out for the customer. They need to be origional and come uo with there own ideas. Not copy "CURRIE<POISEN SPIDER<ETC" and look for there own way. My opinon of TERA as a company is spoken. There kits are not worth speaking of until these can be fixed.


RUBICON

Good kit seems to be strong and alot of people run there stuff. I think they are a little behiend time on there enineering. I think that they need to step it up a little to stay in the marketplace as the force they once were. I lIKE THERE KIT. I think there torsen bar effect in the front end is a little to much. With that the wear on the bushing is much more and therefore promotes DEATH WOBBLE. I am ordering a ZJ long arm to evaluate it.

Full Traction

Install and modification NEEDED!!! I dont need to say much about copying. But steering is good idea.

RockKrawler

Speaking Gen II Long Arm Only

They have the only front end design with absolutely no premature wear points and no natural binding features. Our arms are stronger than 90% of the industry (That includes everyone - even custom rock trucks). With the three independent link front end there is no fight between the arms and the track bar. The rear triangulated 4 link design is well proven and has been around forever. RK kits are complete. No extra parts to purchase later. With the double jointed double adjustable design there is no stress on the axle brackets like systems with regular bushings on the ends....

All other kits speak for therself. I would like to here opinon on the fabtach, skyjacker etc...

Impressions

Originally posted by impressions
TERA


I have been around and paying attention to the TJ kits for some time. I have looked at all of these lift kits and beleive that personal opinon is the first thing that people speak of. I have had a opinon of the TERA kit and beleive that this is over priced and that they mislead people around UTAH and let them buy and buy to acheive a kit that is not what they are told!!! Tere products wear out and are cheaply made. There customer support sucks. There is not a saleman in utah who will look out for the customer. They need to be origional and come uo with there own ideas. Not copy "CURRIE<POISEN SPIDER<ETC" and look for there own way. My opinon of TERA as a company is spoken. There kits are not worth speaking of until these can be fixed.


RUBICON

Good kit seems to be strong and alot of people run there stuff. I think they are a little behiend time on there enineering. I think that they need to step it up a little to stay in the marketplace as the force they once were. I lIKE THERE KIT. I think there torsen bar effect in the front end is a little to much. With that the wear on the bushing is much more and therefore promotes DEATH WOBBLE. I am ordering a ZJ long arm to evaluate it.

Full Traction

Install and modification NEEDED!!! I dont need to say much about copying. But steering is good idea.

RockKrawler

Speaking Gen II Long Arm Only

They have the only front end design with absolutely no premature wear points and no natural binding features. Our arms are stronger than 90% of the industry (That includes everyone - even custom rock trucks). With the three independent link front end there is no fight between the arms and the track bar. The rear triangulated 4 link design is well proven and has been around forever. RK kits are complete. No extra parts to purchase later. With the double jointed double adjustable design there is no stress on the axle brackets like systems with regular bushings on the ends....

All other kits speak for therself. I would like to here opinon on the fabtach, skyjacker etc...

Impressions

You don't know shit, but I don't feel like spending time explaining it to you.

Two years ago I purchased some XJ 4.5" rear springs to use in Moab. They flexed well on the drive down there and lasted all of 2 hours, I tried to climb dump and bump, after a few unsuccessful attempts I gave up, Then I noticed the rear end of my jeep was sagging, sure enough the leaf springs had inverted and were permanently destroyed.

Check out RockKrawlers red XJ when you have a chance, last year at Moab their springs were inverted, I think it might be a factory option with all the shit that leaves their shop.

This last year I ran RE stuff, I climbed dump and bump, abused their stuff all week long, and net result was their shit works.

Originally posted by impressions
TERA


I have been around and paying attention to the TJ kits for some time. I have looked at all of these lift kits and beleive that personal opinon is the first thing that people speak of. I have had a opinon of the TERA kit and beleive that this is over priced and that they mislead people around UTAH and let them buy and buy to acheive a kit that is not what they are told!!! Tere products wear out and are cheaply made. There customer support sucks. There is not a saleman in utah who will look out for the customer. They need to be origional and come uo with there own ideas. Not copy "CURRIE<POISEN SPIDER<ETC" and look for there own way. My opinon of TERA as a company is spoken. There kits are not worth speaking of until these can be fixed.


RUBICON

Good kit seems to be strong and alot of people run there stuff. I think they are a little behiend time on there enineering. I think that they need to step it up a little to stay in the marketplace as the force they once were. I lIKE THERE KIT. I think there torsen bar effect in the front end is a little to much. With that the wear on the bushing is much more and therefore promotes DEATH WOBBLE. I am ordering a ZJ long arm to evaluate it.

Full Traction

Install and modification NEEDED!!! I dont need to say much about copying. But steering is good idea.

RockKrawler

Speaking Gen II Long Arm Only

They have the only front end design with absolutely no premature wear points and no natural binding features. Our arms are stronger than 90% of the industry (That includes everyone - even custom rock trucks). With the three independent link front end there is no fight between the arms and the track bar. The rear triangulated 4 link design is well proven and has been around forever. RK kits are complete. No extra parts to purchase later. With the double jointed double adjustable design there is no stress on the axle brackets like systems with regular bushings on the ends....

All other kits speak for therself. I would like to here opinon on the fabtach, skyjacker etc...

Impressions


This isnt JU, pimpin your junk wont work here.

Bushwacker

What else was in your front end? Could the shocks have blown from you bottoming them out too hard? They are shocks with internal recoil cutoff construction and external jounce stops like coil over racing shocks. Even the high end coil over racing shocks will blow if you bottom them out too hard..

JeepinAmerica.com

Thank you. We will do our best and we do care. You are absolutely correct on the he said she said thing, but that is the internet.

You are correct. Only time will tell...


4x4 Pete

What are you trying to describe then by saying you are getting on and off the gas? Isn't that appying a torque through the drive train and feeling what the reaction torque of the vehicle is? That is called torque steer.

jslamerman

"Somewhere (and I cant find it), another user has complained of the use of "solid stock". This is another example of "marketing". Those of us that have built suspension know the drawbacks associated with solid stock, as well as inherent weakness (even though to the average person it SOUNDS strong, this is misleading)."

How do you figure? Please explain your points. It is not a marketing ploy. Please make sure you are comparing apples to apples. .120 wall is fine for competition trucks that want to live on the edge and can be rebuilt now and again, but if you never want to touch it again, it had better be tough. Partial opinion/partial fact.

SOLID STOCK BENDS TOO EASILY. Do you think you heard me??? The points made about the other companies mave have some truth, but the overall effect leaves you lagging behind. If youd get with some of the rockrawling crowd, and TEST your product, SEE its weakness in person (to hear you talk, yours has never failed, and Ill tell u, across all the forums, your suspension recieves the most complaints. This does mean something:rolleyes: ), and then correct it, dont bandaid it, really fix it. Then u can call your company Rockrawler, rather than Mallcrawler.
Jay

.120 wall is fine for competition trucks that want to live on the edge and can be rebuilt now and again, but if you never want to touch it again, it had better be tough. Partial opinion/partial fact.
No one is telling you to use .120 wall. That is an inferior product for lower suspension links. .250 should be the min if u want a decent motor and/or intend to rockcrawl and not bend a link EVERY time out. There is at least one "other" company pimping this well known fact. Step it up...........

RK - send a TJ kit to me to test out and if it works well then I will help promote it. :flipoff2:

jslamerman

"SOLID STOCK BENDS TOO EASILY. Do you think you heard me??? The points made about the other companies mave have some truth, but the overall effect leaves you lagging behind. If youd get with some of the rockrawling crowd, and TEST your product, SEE its weakness in person (to hear you talk, yours has never failed, and Ill tell u, across all the forums, your suspension recieves the most complaints. This does mean something ), and then correct it, dont bandaid it, really fix it. Then u can call your company Rockrawler, rather than Mallcrawler.
Jay"

R U disgruntled? Care to explain what the force is to bend 1.75" diameter solid stock. Any situation is acceptable. The longest arm we have is 32.375". You can use buckling, standard bending, whatever. It is up to you. We are all ears.

We were in Supercrawl 2003 last year with an XJ running the conventional 8" long arm. This year that truck has been upgraded to the Super 8 and will be competiting in UROC and SuperCrawl. The other XJ is going to run Neuroc and SuperCrawl. You will also see a custom TJ in SuperCrawl.

1.5" O.D. .120 wall chromeoly is what most unlimited competition trucks are using. Check with Shannon Cambell, Bondurant or any of them. Weight is the biggest factor. They don't care as much about ultimate vehicle durability.

So you guys are going to have a TJ out there competing mod stock with your products?

How much weight difference is there between a street vehicle (Jeep wrangler), and an all out comp rig????? HMMMMM. That would be a big part of it, as well as the cost of chromoly. A heavier wall DOM would suffice of a dual purpose (street/rocks), or recreationally driven 4 wheel drive (between the 2 is incidentally where 100% of your market is!!! Comp guys and tube buggys build custom stuff!! ). Number two, they compete for a living (either in support of thier business, or in advertising). They can afford to replace control arms as needed after a single comp in order to save all the wieght possible. I dont think the average 4 wheeler can/or is willing to do the same?? Do you agree? Im not disgruntled, just tryin to make a point. Your company has got one thing going for it(actually two, if the product worked/was built right, the lower pricetag would sell it as well), and its name recognition. Really, what rockrawler is going to go the counter and go"I cant remember the name, on yea, rockcrawler!!"

PS My wife drives a TJ, and as soon as the "new" wears off, she will want the thing lifted, and locked. She and I both will buy the suspension for it that meets the durability, quality, function, and pricetags requirements best. I think most people would do the same.

Originally posted by Rock Krawler
Bushwacker


4x4 Pete

What are you trying to describe then by saying you are getting on and off the gas? Isn't that appying a torque through the drive train and feeling what the reaction torque of the vehicle is? That is called torque steer.




Torque steer as most people desribe it, comes in front wheel drive cars. Of course by getting on and off the throttle i'm applying torque to the drivetrain, but it shouldn't make the Jeep steer left and right if everything is right on it.

Let me say again. On first putting on my high steer/LCG I didn't have the drag link level with the tie rod, and it had bump steer. By getting on and off the throttle the Jeep would steer left on throttle and right when the throttle was released. This is because the suspension was moving up and down, and the bump steer was steering it left and right. It has nothing to do with torque of the engine. Once the drag link was adjusted level with the tie rod with pitman arm and different steering arm, the bump steer was gone, and also steered straight when you got on and off the throttle. If it was torque steer making it steer left/right. It still would have done it after adjusting the drag link.

For someone designing suspension. I shouldn't have had to explain this to you.

Jeepinamerica.com

The Wrangler out there will be in the modified class. The classification this year is way different from last year in case you haven't looked. Merely an FYI.

jslamerman

So do you have an answer of the force issue?

A typical unlimited rig weighs around 2000 to 2500 pounds.

All of the rest of your points are valid and one natural conclusion would be to use solid stock for the control arms for durability concerns. They must last the lifetime of the vehicle and then some. That is what every consumer wants and deserves.

No, I do not have the answer. But I will come up with it, I just have to search a little in order to use "fact" instead of the overall opinion. Someone must have read this thread that has the calculations neccessary to compute this. The most common situation IMHO(bending), using leverage on the arm (arm resting on rock, weight of vehicle applied at leverage points at both ends of the control arm. (.120 DOM vs .120 chromoloy vs .250 DOM vs 1.75 solid stock, at a length of 32.375)

Originally posted by impressions
TERA


I have been around and paying attention to the TJ kits for some time. I have looked at all of these lift kits and beleive that personal opinon is the first thing that people speak of. I have had a opinon of the TERA kit and beleive that this is over priced and that they mislead people around UTAH and let them buy and buy to acheive a kit that is not what they are told!!! Tere products wear out and are cheaply made. There customer support sucks. There is not a saleman in utah who will look out for the customer. They need to be origional and come uo with there own ideas. Not copy "CURRIE<POISEN SPIDER<ETC" and look for there own way. My opinon of TERA as a company is spoken. There kits are not worth speaking of until these can be fixed.


RUBICON

Good kit seems to be strong and alot of people run there stuff. I think they are a little behiend time on there enineering. I think that they need to step it up a little to stay in the marketplace as the force they once were. I lIKE THERE KIT. I think there torsen bar effect in the front end is a little to much. With that the wear on the bushing is much more and therefore promotes DEATH WOBBLE. I am ordering a ZJ long arm to evaluate it.

Full Traction

Install and modification NEEDED!!! I dont need to say much about copying. But steering is good idea.

RockKrawler

Speaking Gen II Long Arm Only

They have the only front end design with absolutely no premature wear points and no natural binding features. Our arms are stronger than 90% of the industry (That includes everyone - even custom rock trucks). With the three independent link front end there is no fight between the arms and the track bar. The rear triangulated 4 link design is well proven and has been around forever. RK kits are complete. No extra parts to purchase later. With the double jointed double adjustable design there is no stress on the axle brackets like systems with regular bushings on the ends....

All other kits speak for therself. I would like to here opinon on the fabtach, skyjacker etc...

Impressions
Go away. Way to recruite your employees to jump in to pretend and be a customer, Rock Crawler.
Scott

Ive found these stats posted as to tubing(strength is what I searched for, as I understand it tensile strength refers to bending as opposed to tearing or breaking), what are the stats of your solid stock?:
Tube Costs per Tube Service
Based on 20 foot length purchases.

Chrome-Moly Tensile Stength = 90,000 psi
Diameter (in) Thickness (in) ID (in) Cross Sect. Area (in^2) Tensile Strength (lbs) Cost ($/ft) Weight (lb/ft)
1.75 0.120 1.51 0.61 55,303 $6.63 2.089 lb
1.75 0.095 1.56 0.49 44,453 $6.59 1.679 lb
1.75 0.083 1.58 0.43 39,119 $8.17 1.478 lb
1.50 0.120 1.26 0.52 46,821 $6.01 1.769 lb
1.50 0.095 1.31 0.42 37,738 $5.74 1.426 lb
1.50 0.083 1.33 0.37 33,253 $5.51 1.256 lb
1.25 0.120 1.01 0.43 38,339 $5.65 1.448 lb
1.25 0.095 1.06 0.34 31,023 $5.44 1.172 lb
1.25 0.083 1.08 0.30 27,386 $5.50 1.034 lb
1.00 0.120 0.76 0.33 29,857 $5.54 1.128 lb
1.00 0.095 0.81 0.27 24,308 $5.42 .9182 lb
1.00 0.083 0.83 0.24 21,519 $5.39 .8129 lb
1.00 0.065 0.87 0.19 17,183 $4.98 .6491 lb

DOM Tensile Stength = 70,000 psi
Diameter (in) Thickness (in) ID (in) Cross Sect. Area (in^2) Tensile Strength (lbs) Cost ($/ft) Weight (lb/ft)
1.75 0.125 1.50 0.64 44,668 $5.54 2.169 lb
1.75 0.095 1.56 0.49 34,575 $5.36 1.596 lb
1.75 0.083 1.58 0.43 30,426 $5.23 1.478 lb
1.50 0.120 1.26 0.52 36,416 $5.18 1.769 lb
1.50 0.095 1.31 0.42 29,352 $5.92 1.426 lb
1.50 0.083 1.33 0.37 25,863 $5.61 1.256 lb
1.25 0.120 1.01 0.43 29,819 $5.28 1.448 lb
1.25 0.095 1.06 0.34 24,129 $5.00 1.172 lb
1.25 0.083 1.08 0.30 21,300 $5.57 1.034 lb
1.00 0.120 0.76 0.33 23,222 $5.00 1.128 lb
1.00 0.095 0.81 0.27 18,906 $5.00 .9182 lb
1.00 0.083 0.83 0.24 16,737 $5.00 .8129 lb
1.00 0.065 0.87 0.19 13,365 $5.00 .6490 lb

HREW Tensile Stength = 40,000 psi
Diameter (in) Thickness (in) ID (in) Cross Sect. Area (in^2) Tensile Strength (lbs) Cost ($/ft) Weight (lb/ft)
1.75 0.120 1.51 0.61 24,579 $5.20 2.089 lb
1.75 0.095 1.56 0.49 19,757 $5.06 1.596 lb
1.75 0.083 1.58 0.43 17,386 $5.11 1.478 lb
1.50 0.120 1.26 0.52 20,809 $5.16 1.769 lb
1.50 0.095 1.31 0.42 16,772 $5.00 1.426 lb
1.50 0.083 1.33 0.37 14,779 $5.00 1.256 lb
1.25 0.120 1.01 0.43 17,039 $5.04 1.448 lb
1.25 0.095 1.06 0.34 13,788 $5.00 1.172 lb
1.25 0.083 1.08 0.30 12,172 $5.00 1.034 lb
1.00 0.120 0.76 0.33 13,270 $5.00 1.128 lb
1.00 0.095 0.81 0.27 10,804 $5.00 .9182 lb
1.00 0.083 0.83 0.24 9,564 $5.00 .8129 lb
1.00 0.065 0.87 0.19 7,637 $5.00 .6490 lb

Originally posted by Rock Krawler

jslamerman

So do you have an answer of the force issue?

A typical unlimited rig weighs around 2000 to 2500 pounds.

All of the rest of your points are valid and one natural conclusion would be to use solid stock for the control arms for durability concerns. They must last the lifetime of the vehicle and then some. That is what every consumer wants and deserves.

What he is saying is, why don't you engineer your products right instead of saying "just make it thicker". And no, solid stock is not necessarily stronger than tube.

I suppose the quality of the stock needs to be considered, heat treat, porosity, manufacutring process, metal composition etc.

Originally posted by Rock Krawler
There is always something to learn wether it be hear say or not, partial truth, fiction, or whatever...


I got enough proof, and witnesses to hang you buy your nutsack asshole! :flipoff:

And yes that was me on JU. Time frame, about a year and a half ago.
Did I get rebuild kits for the joints in the krawler shackles? NO!
Did you offer to help me the way you helped others on JU? NO!
Do I think it's funny seeing you try to be "mr. smart guy wheeler" on the PBB? HELL YES!!!

jslamerman

We are not trying to test your intellegence. Our lower control arms are made of 1.75" diameter 1020 Cold Rolled Steel. If you have a machinery handbook the equation is in there.

Po'riggity

"Go away. Way to recruite your employees to jump in to pretend and be a customer, Rock Crawler.
Scott"
We would not bother doing that. No one knows our products better than we do. However that does reflect highly on the things we have heard about this board. Why don't you try emailing him/her to see who it is. That makes sense.

jeep94xj

"I got enough proof, and witnesses to hang you buy your nutsack asshole!

And yes that was me on JU. Time frame, about a year and a half ago.
Did I get rebuild kits for the joints in the krawler shackles? NO!
Did you offer to help me the way you helped others on JU? NO!
Do I think it's funny seeing you try to be "mr. smart guy wheeler" on the PBB? HELL YES!!!"

Now you sound disgruntled for sure! The offers were open to everyone reading. If you read it then it was open to you as well. From the sounds of it you did read it. What you did is up to you?

Originally posted by Rock Krawler
jslamerman

We are not trying to test your intellegence. Our lower control arms are made of 1.75" diameter 1020 Cold Rolled Steel. If you have a machinery handbook the equation is in there.

Po'riggity

"Go away. Way to recruite your employees to jump in to pretend and be a customer, Rock Crawler.
Scott"
We would not bother doing that. No one knows our products better than we do. However that does reflect highly on the things we have heard about this board. Why don't you try emailing him/her to see who it is. That makes sense.

Thats quite alright. Don't really feel a need to email the person.. Sure seems suscpicious that they are bashing every kit out there except yours. There is no doubt in my mind that RE makes a 100 times better kit than rockcrawler ever will. My opinion.
Scott

Originally posted by Rock Krawler


Now you sound disgruntled for sure! The offers were open to everyone reading. If you read it then it was open to you as well. From the sounds of it you did read it. What you did is up to you?

Damn right I'm disgruntled! I got bullshit answers from the previous fawk, and now I'm getting them from you. What about the rebuild kits? Funny that I talked to Rick a copule months (right after my trackbar broke on the street!) before you "took over" and yet I was not included on that list? Shortly afterwards the mount for the torque arm rips off the spring mount (And no one from RK EVER said a damn thing about strengthening that area) and you think I should not bad mouth your company?! This all took place shortly after a conversation with Rick about my concerns of what I had read and seen on this very board! He assured me there was nothing to worry about because my "kit" was a newer design and all the problems had already been adressed. Two weeks later I'm headed straight into oncoming traffic after the very thing I was afraid of, and reassured wouldn't happen, FAWKING DID! And here you are talking about your newly redesigned kits. :rolleyes: I would trust anyone's word who uses the PBB tenfold to the bullshit spewing from your mouth. I'm still waiting for you to give me a reason to change my mind.

Rock Krawler, I think it's stupid to use solid stock as well. Like braxton357 said, "What he is saying is, why don't you engineer your products right instead of saying "just make it thicker". And no, solid stock is not necessarily stronger than tube."

And tensile strength is not bending strength. It's the ultimate stress a material can with stand before fracture.

Here's a good link. It's talking about bones but the same principles apply.
Bending (http://anatomy.med.unsw.edu.au/teach/anat3131/2002/FA1.18%3DSTRESS.STR.pdf)

To paraphrase: In bending the stress are the highest on the outer surface, since stress increases with the distnace from the nuetral axis(center line). In other works if you have a tube vs. rod of the same quanity of the same material the tube will be stiffer against bending, which is why most bicycles frames are made from tubing and not rod.

Here's another link:
Bending 2 (http://www.yorku.ca/pjkeir/images/TissueMechanics-general_w04.pdf)
On the 6th page towards the bottom it states tube is 4.8 times stronger then rod. It doesn't specificy stronger how though.

I don't know per say if tube is strogner but I do know it's more efficent from the strength/weight stand point. You should be able to get a tube that is close to the same strength at significantly less weight. I doubt there is that big of a difference in durability in using rod. When you guys are designing parts don't be afraid to use the same thing or design everyone else is. Usually there is a reason everyone goes that route and doesn't use something else. Such as the diff mount, I think it's a stupid design. The diff cover was never design to support suspension loads. And using high grade bolts is a bandaid fix imo, unless you have the analysis to back it up. Make a weld on mount or use the stock location.

And the yellow star is for vendors, and all vendors need to have one on this site to push their products. If your mention anything about what you are selling you need a yellow star. Not sure how it goes in adquiring feedback or customer service. Check with Lance or Camo.

Originally posted by jeep94xj


Damn right I'm disgruntled! I got bullshit answers from the previous fawk, and now I'm getting them from you. What about the rebuild kits? Funny that I talked to Rick a copule months (right after my trackbar broke on the street!) before you "took over" and yet I was not included on that list? Shortly afterwards the mount for the torque arm rips off the spring mount (And no one from RK EVER said a damn thing about strengthening that area) and you think I should not bad mouth your company?! This all took place shortly after a conversation with Rick about my concerns of what I had read and seen on this very board! He assured me there was nothing to worry about because my "kit" was a newer design and all the problems had already been adressed. Two weeks later I'm headed straight into oncoming traffic after the very thing I was afraid of, and reassured wouldn't happen, FAWKING DID! And here you are talking about your newly redesigned kits. :rolleyes: I would trust anyone's word who uses the PBB tenfold to the bullshit spewing from your mouth. I'm still waiting for you to give me a reason to change my mind.

----------------------

"Shortly afterwards the mount for the torque arm rips off the spring mount (And no one from RK EVER said a damn thing about strengthening that area)"

Sounds like a funky installation weld to me...i've had mine for 2 yrs now and it was still there last time i checked ;)

jeep94xj

We are trying to keep this PC. There could be kids reading this you know. We are in no way trying to convince you of anything. What you do is up to you. Any product sold with the old thin walled tubing end was suppossed to be recalled and replaced for free. From your posts that is what you had and should have been warrenteed. However we believe you also mentioned that you now have leaf springs in the front so how could what we have now benefit you. What are you really looking for? You already posted that in no way would you ever want anything we have. There are some things that are out of our control and past experiences like that is one of them?

Weasel

We are in no way trying to sell any product here so we do not need a yellow star. Thank you for the explanation.
Your explanation is correct in all points. Comparing strength and bending as long as you are comparing apples to apples why would you not want solid material? It is simply added strength. When the playing field is leveled I.E. same shape SOLID IS STRONG THAN TUBE. THAT IS A FACT! Plus machined threads into a bar are much nicer and cleaner than welded ends. That is our opinion. We are completely aware of all the pros and cons. It also makes for a cleaner looking product. Our opinion as well.

Back for more tommorrow! I have no idea how you guys can do this all day. How do your employers feel? Heck, at least we are getting paid for this.

I saw some pics from a previous post stating "he sent all his complaints to a local web site", and clicked that link. It seems that the tube steel used to surround the bushing or joint seperated at the seem (appears to be hrew tubing used, not really smart. RK is NOT the only manufacturer to do this though, Ive seen this firsthand on a Jeep built just like mine, but he had a MORE ladder bar, I had a Sams, and he was gettin it, and the lower bushing Mounted at the axle end seperated in that exact manner.). You know, all of this could really be used constructively to the betterment of the company. I think RK would be AMAZED at the support and amount of purchase it would get if it worked with some wheelers from a site such as this (hardcore, and everyone who is web literate can check and see the number of hits this site gets, its gotta be either the #1 or #2 jeep related wheelin site, the other site being a little softer core in the wheelin department) to the improvement of their product.

I believe you are still missing the point. It's not that much stronger, maybe 5%? Is that worth the extra weight, not imo.

From the numbers stand point it's stronger. But from a praticle standpoint it's not really any more then tube.

It's like saying 5<6 which is true but it's not that much greater as 5<10 would be.

You know, Ive heard all the claims made by RK, and I would LOVE to put these claims to the test, but alas I am funds limited (by a YJ I have built on leafsprings and D60s which is my baby:D ). I will, however, when I cant stand it anymore put a kit on the TJ, and she will grow up and be wheeled (with the best of them!!!!):D Someone with cash step up and test the company. Even better, RK get SOMEONE, anyone with a Jeep that can be wheeled "properly" (HARD!!), and lets see what the "new" RK products will do!!!!!!!!!!!!

i have been talking with jeremy from rk i am going to be installing my super 8 kit in a bout 3 weeks. the kit i got had the gen 1 in it he is sending me the gen II stuff and i am going to do a write up on the install and how the kit works. you can nag all you want but i know they have sold lots more kits then the people that have posted bad things. this will be my 3rd kit. like i have said once. i like there stuff. the only down side that i can see from there solid arms is the damn price it cost to ship them heavy things across the country:flipoff2: i have delt with rk for a year now and never had any problems. so look forward to the write up in a bout a month to 6 weeks. ;)

jeff

"I know they have sold lots more kits then the people that have posted bad things."


How many people actually contribute comments to PBB. I personally know 5 people who have bought their kits or sub components, and all of them will tell you their shit is junk. Their batting a 1,000 on my end keep up the good work.
:D

Originally posted by Weasel
I believe you are still missing the point. It's not that much stronger, maybe 5%? Is that worth the extra weight, not imo.

From the numbers stand point it's stronger. But from a praticle standpoint it's not really any more then tube.

It's like saying 5<6 which is true but it's not that much greater as 5<10 would be.

its funny how everyone is bashing the solid stock, yes tube is lighter and near as strong. However do you really think its going to make a differance? Its maybe an extra 20-40 pounds, if 20-40 pounds is going to make or brake a trail rig we better all head to the backpacking supply stores to pack for wheeling trips. And we better skip that monster burger. you guys are nit picking this kit to death. If your going to make such a big deal about the solid vs. tube I really hope to see you to start bashing guys for being overweight and wheeling, it will effect the permance just as much. If you want to attack flaws attack things that will truly effect the performance of the rig and effect reliability.

Someone dig up the solid vs hollow driveshaft debate from back in the day when this site was truly hardcore.

Someone dig up the solid vs hollow driveshaft debate from back in the day when this site was truly hardcore

Not tryin to stir the pot but........................ Are you trying to compare the torque load applied to a driveshaft radially to the impact or force applied to a control arm mounted to a vehicle when hi centered on a rock??

Whatever. I still want to see someone really do a writeup on the install and TEST(Camo...........Camo...........) this (because the manufacturer is so sure of his product) by the least biased, non-vendor person who will post the results honestly on this board, and others.

did you not see that i am goign to do a write up and a follow up as to how the kit does:flipoff2: trust me it will get tested damn hard and if it breaks it will be on ups back to there shop for replacement. it should be done by the yearington calrocs event. hmmmmmmm maybe time to do some preruns on the course and follow lilrich;) it will be beat the links bashed into rocks flopped on its side if it fails then we will all know wont we. i am also geting the genII stuff so i will post up pics of the gen I and gen II stuff as soon as i get it.


jeff

Even better, RK get SOMEONE, anyone with a Jeep that can be wheeled "properly" (HARD!!), and lets see what the "new" RK products will do!!!!!!!!!!!!
tell ya what....
I have one of the hardest wheeled TJ's in the country. Lots of folks know and love my jeep. it has a RE long arm on it...in fact, it has the very first prototype long arm from RE on it. I LOVE the kit.

Send me your kit and I'll install it and give a 100% honest comparison. I'll even send it back when I'm done or pay full price.

you just pay shipping.

Originally posted by NE-RokToy


its funny how everyone is bashing the solid stock, yes tube is lighter and near as strong. However do you really think its going to make a differance? Its maybe an extra 20-40 pounds,

Yes, I am nit picking this. I really don't care what they use, but whats annoys me is how they use it as a marketing tool claiming it's so much better then tube when the difference is marginal. Yeah big whoop, it's marketing but that kind of stuff annoys me.

Last reason is cause they have seem to have trouble in the past getting good welds on things. I don't think using solid stocks helps this problem.

Anyways RockKrawler, good luck to you in getting everything straighten out. If you can get all the problems worked out I think you'll have a competitve product.

Originally posted by jslamerman


Not tryin to stir the pot but........................ Are you trying to compare the torque load applied to a driveshaft radially to the impact or force applied to a control arm mounted to a vehicle when hi centered on a rock??

.

not trying to compare that, it was just a long and funny thread debating hollow vs. solid driveshaft, this thread only reminded me of it.


Originally posted by Weasel


Yes, I am nit picking this. I really don't care what they use, but whats annoys me is how they use it as a marketing tool claiming it's so much better then tube when the difference is marginal. Yeah big whoop, it's marketing but that kind of stuff annoys me.

Last reason is cause they have seem to have trouble in the past getting good welds on things. I don't think using solid stocks helps this problem.

Anyways RockKrawler, good luck to you in getting everything straighten out. If you can get all the problems worked out I think you'll have a competitve product.

I will agree with its poor marketing as the strength is very neglagable when compared to the same diemeter tube with wall thickness thick enough to thread for there joints.

Also as far as welding, I don't think welding to solid is an easier then tube, a good weld is a good weld and obviously their welds used to suck.

Finally since they have quit using the three link I believe there is no more welding in there links.

Some one test the hell out of this, as they say the proof is in the pudding (.......mmmmmmmm.......puuuddddding........)

Originally posted by Rock Krawler
jeep94xj

We are trying to keep this PC. There could be kids reading this you know. We are in no way trying to convince you of anything. What you do is up to you. Any product sold with the old thin walled tubing end was suppossed to be recalled and replaced for free. From your posts that is what you had and should have been warrenteed. However we believe you also mentioned that you now have leaf springs in the front so how could what we have now benefit you. What are you really looking for? You already posted that in no way would you ever want anything we have. There are some things that are out of our control and past experiences like that is one of them.

As I have said before again and again...You keep posting about recalls, and other replacments going out to your customers. Whether you or I like it or not, I AM a previous customer that was dealing with your company just a few months before you took over. So why is it I never recieved any parts, or recall notices on your stuff? The way you describe your customer service makes it sound as though I shouldn't need to contact you about upgraded parts. You should be informing me. You want to make a good impression? This board would be the place to do it! You have already admitted to recalls and such, and I have already reminded you (several times) about my rear leafs, and the joints. Why don't you tell me on this board, are you gonna fix the problem or not?


And as far as the bracket for the torque arm goes, The welds did not break. The factory spring mount the bracket was welded to ripped in half. As of recently RK has adressed this problem by letting customers know this could be a problem. (one of the few things I give them credit for)

Originally posted by NE-RokToy


Also as far as welding, I don't think welding to solid is an easier then tube, a good weld is a good weld and obviously their welds used to suck.



I don't know alot about welding but seems to me a solid chunk of whatever would be hard to weld simply because you need to heat more material to get a proper weld but not burn thorugh whatever your welding too. But it would be fairly easy to get a weld that looks good but is a cold weld.

OK. Back to work. Good Morning..

Listen, as far as the solid stock is concerned it is what it is and that is what we use. No need to put formulas up here that very few people are going to understand. If you are that interested enroll in class. The shit is strong as hell and very durable. Our opinion is as follows; we do not really use it for marketing, That is how you percieve it, however we do say on our website what our product is made of as every manufacturer should to educate the consumer. If a customer asks we will tell him/her. We feel the solid stock makes for a "cleaner", more finished looking product. Simpler is better in our opinion. Welding a threaded end or nut into a tube is not as clean in our opinion. We do admit it is merely our opinion. Not fact.

jslamerman

Yes, the torsional stress of a driveshaft is related in the very same way.

The weight difference is practically negligable. Our opinion as well. We do not build products for all out competion trucks where weight is a real concern. We build product for the average consumer in this market place that wants their control arms to last.

elusiv

We are not here to sell product or give it away. Time will tell for you as well as others.

jeep94xj

Could it have possibly been that your bracket was rusted to hell? Anyway, what our arguement would have been for you would actually be in your favor. We are not positive of what the website used to say when you got your product, but we believe the limited lifetime warranty on all structural components was still there. So if what you are saying is true then it definitely is the fault of the person you were dealing with and it should have been taken care of accordingly. But according to your posts there is nothing you would want to do except complain on bulletin boards all day long. If you could give us your name we could at least verify you were a past customer and see what we have for you. If you would like you could even PM us and someone will take care of you appropriately. That was the same offer made on JU.

Now i have a wonderful Black Diamond XCL, nice kit incredible performance and very rugged.
No Problem so far.... after lots of trail use and some extreme 4x4 competitions.

I followed the pirates and JU advise and kept away from RK......
Forget the RockKrawler and buy any other suspension.

Eduardo

We are not here to sell product or give it away. Time will tell for you as well as others.

read my post.. I didnt ask you to sell it or give it away..just borrow it for an honest comparison.

If your afriad I'll break your stuff, don't worry, I break everything.

I WAS GOING TO BUY THE RK KIT FOR MY WIFES TJ NEED MONTH
THANKS PIRATES BOARD

cybersniper

Do you have any first hand experience with our product?
We are glad you are happy with your Black Diamond kit. This entire industry needs to thank black diamond. Black diamond is the originator of the long arm system. Where do you think alot of other companies got their ideas from?

Believe it or not. We actually owe thanks to PBB and all the boards. The boards and a few dealers are the people that opened our eyes to some of the wrong doings by former employees and or owners. This allowed us to sift through the good and the bad. Of course we tried to be as subjective as possible in the changes that have been made to both the product line and internally. To all you would be doubters on this board who obviusly have have an issue with us. We are here to stay and back up our Product.

Originally posted by jslamerman
You know, Ive heard all the claims made by RK, and I would LOVE to put these claims to the test, but alas I am funds limited (by a YJ I have built on leafsprings and D60s which is my baby:D ). I will, however, when I cant stand it anymore put a kit on the TJ, and she will grow up and be wheeled (with the best of them!!!!):D Someone with cash step up and test the company. Even better, RK get SOMEONE, anyone with a Jeep that can be wheeled "properly" (HARD!!), and lets see what the "new" RK products will do!!!!!!!!!!!!


That would be me! HRR has run a slightly modified RK kit on a Cherokee at Super Crawl, with no breakage. We will be upgrading to a super 8 kit within the next few weeks. We can break anything so keep an eye out for us and come and say hi.

Andy

I'll make my point quick.

I HAVE dealt with Rock Krawler, not their suspensions fortunately, but with their business practices.

For over 4 months I got the run around from these douchbags and will NEVER EVER say anything good about them! For the last year and a half if ANYONE has asked me about RockKrawler Suspension I have steered them away and felt DAMN GOOD about it!

I can personally say that I, myself, have talked at least two dozen potential customers away from buying your product and will continue to do so.

Thank god you don't make anything for CJ'S

IndyCj

Just a few quick questions - What in Gods earth are you talking about? What makes you an authority? Have you personally dealt with our products we are currently offering first hand?

build your own junk and get on with it. If you buy something from a company your trusting a bunch of mexican fabricators that are getting payed $5 a hour to weld. If it fails then its you own dumbass fault for buying it. and if the company doesn't help you out then Fawk them. spread the work and move on.

build your own shit and you know how it went together. if it breaks you know how to fix it and you can improve it as you see nesissary. and usually it will be cheeper once you concider shipping. plus you can build it to suit your needs.

PS to who said the comment about the radius arms not flexing i run a track bar in the front and UCA with +/- 36* heim joints and it flex just fine. i can drop out re 5.4" coild no problem. the only thing that stops the flex is my stearing TRE now. and yes to some of you there is a pic of my junk flexing out on a fork lift somewhere on this board and that was with 2 UCA since then alot has changed.

Originally posted by Rock Krawler
IndyCj

Just a few quick questions - What in Gods earth are you talking about? What makes you an authority? Have you personally dealt with our products we are currently offering first hand?

Rock Krawler.

Just a few quick answers.

No, thank god I haven't dealt with your products. If they are anything like the OWNERS FAWKING BUSINESS PRACTICES, I'm sure they are shit.

Oh, I know, I know. You're 'under new management'. :rolleyes:

What makes me the 'authority' is because I had to deal with the owner on a 'non-related to RockKrawler suspension' issue and got the continual royal run around for four months until I threatened legal action.

Be that as it may, I view anything that comes from RockKrawler (more importantly the OWNER OF ROCKKRAWLER) with a high amount of disdain and warn the FAWK out of everyone to stay the hell away from you guys.

Have a nice day.

Originally posted by IndyCJ


Rock Krawler.

Just a few quick answers.

No, thank god I haven't dealt with your products. If they are anything like the OWNERS FAWKING BUSINESS PRACTICES, I'm sure they are shit.

Oh, I know, I know. You're 'under new management'. :rolleyes:

What makes me the 'authority' is because I had to deal with the owner on a 'non-related to RockKrawler suspension' issue and got the continual royal run around for four months until I threatened legal action.

Be that as it may, I view anything that comes from RockKrawler (more importantly the OWNER OF ROCKKRAWLER) with a high amount of disdain and warn the FAWK out of everyone to stay the hell away from you guys.

Have a nice day.

Your cool!! :rolleyes:I hope I don't ever become as bitter as you, if I do I hope you all would put me out of my misery.

Andy


:eek: :eek: :eek:

I like the fact you guys tell it like it is. For a bolt on kit for a ZJ, who should I buy from? I want it to handle driving on the street to and from trails but last when I get to the trail. I want to run 33 inch tires to boot.
I have been debating the cost of the RK long arm kit and it was looking like a good deal.

I know SEARCH.:flipoff2:

I just did some searching around and it looks like Rubicon Express would be the way to go. Opinions? Good or bad.

Originally posted by ASH


Your cool!! :rolleyes:I hope I don't ever become as bitter as you, if I do I hope you all would put me out of my misery.

Andy


:eek: :eek: :eek:

Doesn't have anything to do with being bitter. It has to do with the fact that when you give a guy 1500 bucks for a product, you expect the product. Not the run around for 4 months and excuses.

I'm all for the 'small businessman' and would much rather do business with them. But, they need to provide good service and keep their word, because in most cases, that's what keeps them in business.

This guy has proven himself not worthy of my time to me, and I do my best to warn other Jeepers of his business practices.

Now he comes on this board and starts spouting off like everything is 'new and improved', however obviously he knows that he has serious 'PR' problems. Why would he be posting on these forums? Just to get his name out or damage control?

indycj

they are under new ownership and management. like i have stated i have been dealing with the for the past year and never had a problem. they always are eager to answer my dumb questions. they do build a quality product as far as i can see. no i dont work for them i am a customer and they have treated me well. so before you go bashing about the owner call up and talk to jeremy. he is a straight forward guy and has always been helpfull to me and thats what is important. they do have good customer service.


hey ash

im going to be putting my super 8 on in a few weeks also. come out for a calrocs event. we would be more then happy to have you out here.

jeff

Originally posted by crawlinxj
indycj

they are under new ownership and management. like i have stated i have been dealing with the for the past year and never had a problem. they always are eager to answer my dumb questions. they do build a quality product as far as i can see. no i dont work for them i am a customer and they have treated me well. so before you go bashing about the owner call up and talk to jeremy. he is a straight forward guy and has always been helpfull to me and thats what is important. they do have good customer service.



Well,

If they are truly under new ownership, then I wish them good luck. My biggest piece of advice would be to change their name.

As far as I'm concerned, I won't deal with them, but that's my perogotive.

Rock Krawler -- Good luck, I think you have a long road ahead of you.

Well, Im gonna give them some credit to. I bought there gen 1 kit along time ago. I think I had one of the first ones in NC. Well, as weve all heard the horrer stories. I got lucky. My upper torque arm ripped in half while turning around in a parking lot. I called RK and they compleley replaced the front end suspeinion. The new stuffs really beafy and looks to be really well made. If i were to do it again I'd just build my own, but they replaced it for free. I had a really good experiance w/ the people there this time. I guess some people are still gonna bashem. But they did me right, i think.

Well, thats just my 2 cents.

Don't have much to add to this mud slinging event, except to relay my personal Rock Krawler experience - not what I "heard", but only what I've seen.
One of my best buddies ran their long arm kit with the single tourqe arm. He wheeled it hard for about 3 months with no problems. I get a call from him one afternoon to come over to his apartment - the torque arm had seperated from the bushing end. Thank goodness it happend backing out of a parking spot and not on the road :eek: RK did send a new replacement part. We pulled the arms the next week, and he went to front leafs.
I wouldn't, and will never, trust a RK product. End of story. Sorry guys, but there are too many other choices out there to justify taking a chance with your life, just to save a buck or two (even if it's "under new ownership"). Just my .02. :)

Originally posted by IndyCJ


Well,

If they are truly under new ownership, then I wish them good luck. My biggest piece of advice would be to change their name.

As far as I'm concerned, I won't deal with them, but that's my perogotive.

Rock Krawler -- Good luck, I think you have a long road ahead of you.

Good luck nothing. I hope the business goes down the fawkin tubes. When his answer to the strength of solid stock is " Strong as shit" That really tells you how much research they put into thier products. There are a lot other companies, I will be steering people toward, to buy suspension from, rather than your crap.
Scott

Well I have a read this entire post and all I can say is if you want a quality kit to bolt on go to Clayton Offroad www.claytonoffroad.com.
Best kit on the market.

I just installed one 3 months back, then last week kid got in a front end collison at 45mph into another car and all the arms and parts are perfect.. ( lets see another kit hold up to that) this was on a ZJ.

Just my .02

but trust me you will not be upset with his stuff.

Ken C

Adam at Clayton's recommends using RK components to complete their kits! Ask if Clayton is actually there full time.

As for the solid stock links, after my personal observation of the NEW BIGGER links I don't think you will find a stronger link!! Did I mention they are BIG... :flipoff2:

crawlinxj, we will be out there some time this year, just waiting for things to get finalized with money.

Andy

IndyCJ

What was the issue? Really we have no clue to what you are talking about. Don't care to explain or is it simply B.S. What owner were you dealing with??? Please be specific. What the hell would you be doing on a "Non-Suspension Related Issue" with the owner of a suspension company?


Poriggity

"Good luck nothing. I hope the business goes down the fawkin tubes. When his answer to the strength of solid stock is " Strong as shit" That really tells you how much research they put into thier products. There are a lot other companies, I will be steering people toward, to buy suspension from, rather than your crap." Please reread our post for we were leaving equations out for simplicity.

Here you go. We'll let you fill in the blanks.

Tensile Stress (T) = F (Force)/ A (Cross Sectional Area)

Bending Stress (Sigma) = M (Bending Moment) c (perpendicular distance from the neutral axis to a point farthest away from the neutral axis) - this generates the maximum stress value / I (Moment of Inertia about the neutral axis)

Do you want the buckling equation too? How about welding approximations? Anything else. We won't even charge you for the education. It is completely free.

We do not want to insult anyone on this board who may or may not understand this. This is not real chat board conversation where things are generated mostly by opinion.

Originally posted by Joey D
I know SEARCH.:flipoff2:

I just did some searching around and it looks like Rubicon Express would be the way to go. Opinions? Good or bad.

i would never go with a RE LA kit for a zj if you have the older style tranny mount they have no kit for your cross member and the only customer suport you'll get from them is "well i hope you have the skills to fab somthing that works for ya"

as for the rear design, well it still uses a track bar. If i'm going to LA in the rear, and paying that much personally i would demand a 4 link. and the flex doesn't even look that great in the rear. i get about the same flex with moddified stock controll arms in the rear of my junk.

"We do not want to insult anyone on this board...."

Really ?

The combined first-hand offroad vehicle engineering knowledge amassed through running thousands of miles of trails, countless man-hours of designing, developing, fabricating, and real-world testing by the members and regular contributors to this board is STAGGERING and of immense value to both expert and novice (I include myself in this group) alike...

and you come on here and offer up the 'new management' carrot-on-a-stick and questionable excuses for CATASTROPHIC FAILURE of major suspension components that, for some, were purchased at a very dear price and these learned gentlemen are calling you out to justify this new request to hand you their hard-earned dollars and you 'won't even charge [them] for the education' ???

That's insulting to ME and I don't pretend to have even 1/0th the skill and knowledge these guys do....

There's a sizable amount of well-engineered and reasonably-priced suspension equipment already available from your competitors so as long as I hear these experts advise to stay away from your products, I will do so.

Dana300

What we meant was we are not trying to speak over anyone's head. We are not trying to sell anything at all. We are here to clear up misconceptions and correct wrong doings that were done quite some time ago.
If YOU were insulted then we apologize.

" 'new management' carrot-on-a-stick". If you think that is the truth then obviously that is your OPINION and we have FACT that proves otherwise. Only time will really prove it to people.

you right only time will tell with these products. and i hope that you have changed for the better.

Sorry if i'm repeating my slef but have you addressed the mounting system of the kit in this discusion yet? if not how has the mounting system improved?

Originally posted by Rock Krawler
IndyCJ

What was the issue? Really we have no clue to what you are talking about. Don't care to explain or is it simply B.S. What owner were you dealing with??? Please be specific. What the hell would you be doing on a "Non-Suspension Related Issue" with the owner of a suspension company?




Hey, now that's great. :rolleyes:

So what you're saying is that you're calling Bullshit on me?

The specific reason that I am NOT going to be specific is because the deal between myself and the owner of RockKrawler was enabled by another member of this board. Out of respect for Him, not RockKrawler, is the reason that I won't be specific.

You've also just shot yourself in the foot as far as I'm concerned. I pitched my 'don't buy from RockKrawler' bitch and gave my reasons. Other's posted saying 'Hell, they're under new management, blah blah blah' and made me question whether or not I recommend your company. I then said 'Good Luck' and well wishes.

Now, you call bullshit and wanting more information.

You know what? Fawk off. Seems fairly obvious to me that things have NOT changed at RockKrawler. If your business practices are as well thought out as your suspensions, I'd be getting a good lawyer, cause I'm sure your suspensions will do someone harm

Kraqa

Which mounting location are you refering to so we can clarify..

I think Kraga is talking about the torque arm deal on the drivers side...which has been replaced by the new third LA from the unibody....right?

IndyCJ

Obviously you are missing the point.

Please see our above post. "We are here to clear up misconceptions and correct wrong doings that were done quite some time ago."

We are still paying for some things. For example, some people no longer with the company took advantage of Atlas so now to mend fences we put their artwork in our advertisements to advertise for them.

What you would be doing is actually helping us out.

Do you want to elaborate on your story or not. If not we must dismiss it. It seems a little fishy that you would not want to talk about it and now you are threatening with a lawyer???????? If you do not want to post it feel free to PM us.

Ruffty Tuffty

If that is correct what we do is give components to rebuild the cast mount on the axle with a serviceable rebuildable spherical joint wrapped in polyeurathane. Our new upper arm clevis mounts to that joint and goes to a new supplied bracket and reinforcing bracket that locates above the long arm mounts on the inside of the frame. That is done on TJ's/XJ's/ and ZJ's. They all use the same methodology. If you have any more questions feel free to ask.

actually i was taking about the rear CA mounts, i saw a install done by a buddy on JU and it was just a u shaped braket that had to be welded (up side down like a (n)) to the frame rail. looked very scarry and this install was purchased less then 2 months ago. i'm not engineer but welding straight to the uniframe is not safe in my books. unless you gusset it. but that was not included in the kit.

Originally posted by Rock Krawler
IndyCJ

Obviously you are missing the point.

Please see our above post. "We are here to clear up misconceptions and correct wrong doings that were done quite some time ago."

We are still paying for some things. For example, some people no longer with the company took advantage of Atlas so now to mend fences we put their artwork in our advertisements to advertise for them.

What you would be doing is actually helping us out.

Do you want to elaborate on your story or not. If not we must dismiss it. It seems a little fishy that you would not want to talk about it and now you are threatening with a lawyer???????? If you do not want to post it feel free to PM us.

Obviously you cannot read.

1. I've already stated that I do not want to elaborate on my issues with RockKrawler other than what has already been stated out of respect for a member on this board.

2. I did not threaten anything about a lawyer. I merely stated 'If your business practices are as well thought out as your suspensions, I'd be getting a good lawyer, cause I'm sure your suspensions will do someone harm' Since you cannot obviously read well, I'll explain that to you. What that means is that I feel that your business practices are shady at best and if your business practices are a reflection of the quality (or lack thereof) of craftsmanship in your products, you had better find a lawyer because someone, undoubtably, that has been 'suckered' into purchasing your products is going to be the beneficiary of shady craftmanship and thusly going to be injured.

3. Because this was an issue between myself, the owner of RockKrawler and not a product of RockKrawler, it is not an issue that can be 'solved' by RockKrawler.

4. If you wish to dismiss it, that is fine, I could actually care less. One of the previous posts actually asked what people thought of RockKrawler. Since I had dealings with the owner (at the time, I'm unconvinced that ownership has changed hands) I believe that I have a legitimate opinion of RockKrawler. No, I do not have an opinion of your products which is probably odd, but I do have a direct opinion of the owners business practices which I have, at length, shared.


The great thing about a public forum is that it is public. And as many can attest too, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.

My opinion of RockKrawler is very low and continues to be so. Unfortunately for you, there is nothing that you can do to change that fact. So you'll just have to live with it.

You can go about your business knowing that I have no regard for your business practices and thusly your product and there is nothing that you can do about it.

I will go about my business of offering opinions based on RockKrawler should anyone ever ask.

Good day.

IndyCJ

We certainly can read. If you do not care to elaborate on it and back yourself up that is up to you. You are correct your opinion is your own and everyone is entitled to it. We are going to leave it at that. Good Luck...

Respectfully,

Originally posted by Rock Krawler
IndyCJ

What was the issue? Really we have no clue to what you are talking about. Don't care to explain or is it simply B.S. What owner were you dealing with??? Please be specific. What the hell would you be doing on a "Non-Suspension Related Issue" with the owner of a suspension company?


Poriggity

"Good luck nothing. I hope the business goes down the fawkin tubes. When his answer to the strength of solid stock is " Strong as shit" That really tells you how much research they put into thier products. There are a lot other companies, I will be steering people toward, to buy suspension from, rather than your crap." Please reread our post for we were leaving equations out for simplicity.

Here you go. We'll let you fill in the blanks.

Tensile Stress (T) = F (Force)/ A (Cross Sectional Area)

Bending Stress (Sigma) = M (Bending Moment) c (perpendicular distance from the neutral axis to a point farthest away from the neutral axis) - this generates the maximum stress value / I (Moment of Inertia about the neutral axis)

Do you want the buckling equation too? How about welding approximations? Anything else. We won't even charge you for the education. It is completely free.

We do not want to insult anyone on this board who may or may not understand this. This is not real chat board conversation where things are generated mostly by opinion.

blah blah blah... one google search could help me to come up with that same information on the web. I don't buy it for one minute that you went from " Its strong as shit" to here's the equation.. blah blah blah. My opinion still stands, and your faux "education" isnt going to change a thing.
Scott

Woosah - Woosah - (Bad Boys II) That sums this up.........

Poorigity

Did you put genious hat on today? An equation is an equation, a fact is a fact. We didn't know we were doing a book report and were required to quote references.

We are definitely earning our pay this week. Can't wait until beer - 30.

Rock Crawler: Tensile strength is not even used for figuring bending stength. Why does this keep popping up.

From a engineering design stand point using solid rod where a larger piece of tubing can be used and have similar strenght is a bad design. You want the best of both worlds, weight/strength, ect. No matter how you do the numbers it's regarded as a bad design. You guys can do what you like though.

As for the rest of you guys either PM or Email Rockcrawler with your situation and explain it to them and see what happens.

There's a whole lot of bitching and not one of you has been willing to explain your side in details and give the new owner/managment a chance to fix it. It they don't then talk all the smack you want.

Originally posted by Weasel
There's a whole lot of bitching and not one of you has been willing to explain your side in details and give the new owner/managment a chance to fix it. It they don't then talk all the smack you want.

I agree, this is ridicules. We all know horror storries about RK. And I know some Pirate members had first hand experience with RK. You guys, thank you for sharing. But if your not going to give any detailed info, we dont want to hear about it. Who knows; it could of been made up or the truth??? We sure as hell dont.

But if this is going to go on and on and on why not rename this thread to the "official bitchin forum" (hear that SolidAxleFord??) This isnt getting anywhere. Forums have PM's for a reason.

This was interesting but when everything keeps repeating it gets old.

I guess that i have been reading this post and that I have seen post like this about every company!!! I think that my impression is that there are a # of people who are happy with there current PRODUCT (RK<RE ETC..) I aslo must say that there are people who are unhappy too.

Personal opinon is the basis of all of there thoughts. I think that anyone who has a 2nd hand opinon and has never owned, used a product is as good as someone likes pork dosent mean you he half to like beef. That dosent seem true. I guess I am saying that people all have different opinons and experinces.

As per my personal experiences I have had Bad with TERA, Ok with the rest but this is my opinon of things. From how it also seems it that when something wrong happens it is never the vehicle owners fault it is always the fault of something else. Damn driveshaft manufacturer, axle manufacturer, etc. We play in a sport that is high risk. Whenever you go wheeling you should always check your shit. Sooner or later something is going to break. It is like saying you are going to play football and never have have an injury. OK..


Impressions

FOR ONE I STARTED THIS POST FOR SOME INFO NOT TO STIR THINGS UP BE IT AS IT MAY. FORUMS ARE HERE FOR INFO IF YOU DONT LIKE THE INFO DONT READ IT:flipoff2: I NEEDED SOME INFO AND I GOT IT NUFF SAID I HAVE BOUGHT SOME STUFF FROM RK AND WILL CONTINUE TO FROM WHAT I SEE THERE ARE SOME CASES THAT ARE LEGIT AND A WHOLE LOT THAT ARE MY BUDDYS FRIENDS COUSINS FATHER SISTERS NEPHEW AND THERE IS NO NEED FOR THAT IF YOU HAVE NOT HAD A PERSONAL EXPERENCE I SEE MORE POSITIVES HERE THAN ACTUAL COMPLAINTS FROM THE OWNER OF THE TRUCKS BUT EVERYBODY HAS HEARD OF HUNDREDS OF CASES BUT WHERE IS THE PROOF

OK..

Everyone on this board or any board for that matter can debate the solid arm issue versus tubing until the cows come home. It is what we use. We do not feel we need to prove this in an engineering debate. If you want that, PM us. If you do not like it, that is up to you. We can give you every equation in the world to support our stance. Obviously it would do no good. We support our product and believe in it and time will prove it. We acknowledge there were past issues, especially with customer service quite some time ago. Those issues have been addressed. We will leave it at that. If anyone would like to debate in person please call us for our show schedule.

Have a great weekend.

Woosah - Woosah - (Bad Boys II) That sums this up.........

At least the man has a sense of humor!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Weasel


There's a whole lot of bitching and not one of you has been willing to explain your side in details and give the new owner/managment a chance to fix it. It they don't then talk all the smack you want.


I did explain my side in detail. And I have been in contact with Rockkrawler. They have made an agreement with me, and we'll see if they fix it. So far they have done well.

hats off to you jeremy for taking care of all this. like i have said new owner and new management makes a big diffrence. you guys will always get my buissness;)

I don't think you have to have a personal experience ON YOUR RIG with something to have an opinion. Most of us wheel in groups and have many friends we wheel with/know and if a few guys in my group break a product, I am going to have an opinion. For example, we all know Daniel's shit from USA6x6 sucks. I own some of it. All my friends I wheel with see it. A simple search here confirms it. They have all the right in the world to post their opinion about it here.

Post a poll around here and you'll get a pretty good idea of what the rep is.

RK, I hope you get the boat turned around. Debating here is useless though I think.

Ok what I don't get is why would someone buy a company with a crappy reputation, then spend the money to redesign its products, and then keep the name. The reputation of a company is the hardest, most expensive thing to change, not only do you have to change what is wrong but you have to fight the negative image for years. It's like starting from -100 on a 100 point scale.

everybody has an opinion and i think this is one of thoes cases where a lot of people ar jumping on the band waggon thats all im saying i dont doubt there are people who have had major failures but i think it is safe to say all manufactures have had major failures rk is trying thats more than i can say for some other manufactures ie rustys rk really seems to care or they are putting on a real good act only time will tell

Well, I know little to nothing compared to lots of the members on here. I am impressed with the tenacity of Rockkrawler in defending themselves....takes some balls to keep holding your ground when everyone (almost) is saying you suck. ;) What I don't understand, is why I (or anyone) would even consider buying their kit. To me, I see all the negative press, and not just here. The TJ longarm kit is pretty much the same cost as the RE longarm, and guess which one is a proven design? The RE one seems to be the standard, and has been customized numerous ways by tons of people. For someone like me-I feel that the better option is to buy the RE kit, and when I feel the need and my fabrications skills are a little better, I can 4-link the rear to ditch the TB and make other mods as needed.

So Rockkrawler (or anyone for that matter), tell me what would make me select your kit? Don't read the marketing crap to me, I can see that on your webpage. Tell me what benefits your kit would have over the de facto standard?

For one the RK 5.5" is only $1,750, $750 less than RE....ok you get a belly skid with the RE for the diffenerence.

Also, i would say from my experience with the 7" ZJ that the RK flexes more freely.

Rgds,
Mike

PS-I'm not trying to start the brand war back up, i'm just answering the guys question :)

Originally posted by RufftyTuffty
For one the RK 5.5" is only $1,750, $750 less than RE

The RE can be had for just about the same price, not $750 more.

This thread is the biggest load of fucking bullshit on the board right now. Mr Cock Krawler, take your solid stock worth their weight in shit arms and shove them. Everyone already knows how horrible your products are, don't come running around with some lame ass "under new management" excuse. Nobody gives a flying fawk. The fact is that if someone wants a BOLT ON long arm kit, they've got a lot of choices and they are ALL more appealing than any of the rock krawler garbage you're pimping.

Go piss up a tree eh.

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

He said "EH".........hes Canadian............and said.................."EH"

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

Good Morning.

DEend

Patent issues and we believe in the philosophy, just we felt the execution was a little off. Especially customer service. Paying attention to customers is key. It is not as difficult as you may think... Did Ford change their name with the ton of issues they had? Hell No. They came back with even better product and are completely revamping everything.

mnjeeper

You are correct. RE is the originator of the long arm TJ systems and deserves alot of credit for that. Even though the real innovator in the market place was Black Diamond. Look at the similarity between the XLC kits and RE's.

We do not feel the need to sling any mud about any other manufacturer on this board. The simplest thing to say is just that. Our systems are the "simplest" on the market and we have the only long arm systems with no premature wear points. (Gen II long arm speaking). None!

We have stressed this over and over that we are not here to sell product. We are doing very well with that on our own. We will leave the debate to all the people on the boards on the proes and cons of different lifts, philosophies and different manufacturers. Time will tell.

Outshined

Are you questioning our sexuality? Are you trying to flirt with us?

Coming from Captain Awesome and a call picture like that we don't need to guess about who's trying to pimp what?

Just having fun with you.........

Do you have a first hand experience you would like to elaborate on? If you think you can call B.S. on this whole thing prove it. Obviously we know better. You just seem to have alot of pent up frustration. Could it be cabin fever from a long winter in Canada? Spring is coming soon.

Some of this stuff it too funny..

Now solidaxleford has a sense of humor

"MY BUDDYS FRIENDS COUSINS FATHER SISTERS NEPHEW"

That is funny....

Explain this to me then:
If your product is superior to the competition's long arm kits, and your price is cheaper than the competition's, how is it that nobody wants to buy your junk?

If you guys had half a brain, you'd have renamed the company, revamped the suspension and tried to make a real name for yourself rather than coming on a board that doesn't want to hear your shit and talking about your AMAZING BOLT ON KIT.

Outshined

So this means you don't think were cute?

Bolt on? Who said anything about bolt on. You might want to do some homework on that one. What do you really know about us?

Changing the name is the easy way out. We would rather keep in contact with past customers and if there were wrong doings, do the respectable thing and do our best to correct them.

It seems that some people actually do want to hear what we have to say from the posts made.

If there are disgruntled people, which we know there are, who know little to absolutely nothing about us there are better forms of therapy than talking on a chat board. Ha Ha.. Have a good night Outshined.

Outshined, we know, we know, the ground hog saw his shadow and winter will last another 6 weeks. Rest assured it will undoubtably come to an end unless we are in for an ice age, if that is the case we in the U.S. will welcome you with open arms so you don't catch a cold.

ive read this whole thread and from what i see Rock Krawler was doing a good job keeping his cool for a little while. He was supposting things with facts and such. But it seems as this post drags on he moves more and more toward sarcasm. id stick with your original plan dude. using negativity to battle negativity will never get you new customers.

Originally posted by Rock Krawler
Good Morning.

DEend

Patent issues and we believe in the philosophy, just we felt the execution was a little off. Especially customer service. Paying attention to customers is key. It is not as difficult as you may think... Did Ford change their name with the ton of issues they had? Hell No. They came back with even better product and are completely revamping everything.


I was unaware they had any patents. Mainly because I haven't seen anything truely unique from them (previous owners). I understand the customer service issue. In fact that issue alone is why First Union changed their name to Wachovia after they bought them. Ford has a long standing reputation of building quality vehicles, Rock Krawler does not have a similar reputation that I can see. When you purchase a name (as that is all you are really buying when you buy a company) you purchase its reputation. But business 101 isn't what this thread is about, its really about what you can do to improve your product. so here is my suggestion.

Get rid of the bent links, they create a huge strength, wear, and binding issue on the rod ends, not to mention the bent arms themselves are weaker.

Beetle Bailey

You are correct. Thank you for bringing us down to earth to remember to entire point of this. We were jus tstarting to have a little fun since some things were getting so rediculous. We will continue to be straight to the point. We do feel humor is a must. It is part of what makes the world go round and bring smiles to peoples faces. But for this instance you are correct it probably does not belong here.

DEend

There are patents that are relevant, for example the tri-link conversion that another manufacturer is currently infringing on as well as a few other contracts we have now established in other market segments non related to the offroad industry. According to all the information we have and from what we have seen it appears to be less than 5% of the total customers that have been unhappy. Most of which were really early on when the company was new. Some of them were handled correctly and some were obviously not. Most of Rock Krawlers initial marketing was on the web and on boards by one of the previous owners. The few number of people that there really is seem to have infected the bulliten boards and are probably still on the boards for that matter. Again, we are here trying to correct old bad press and get those customers that we feel were done wrong rectified. Show product support for ourselves and stand up to BS. We are actually surprised other manufacturers do not do the same. For example someone commented on Rusty's. We are not familiar with Rusty's products, however we have done a limited amount of business with them and feel they are good people. We do business with alot of other manufacturers in this industry.

As for the triangulated 4 links that are bent we have NEVER had a failure of any of those components. Did we mention NEVER.

Originally posted by Rock Krawler
You just seem to have alot of pent up frustration. Could it be cabin fever from a long winter in Canada? Spring is coming soon.

Some of this stuff it too funny.. 0

WTF is this???? You come on here boasting about how your products are re-engineered and you customer service is top notch because of new management and then you start ripping on people because they’re from Canada. Why don't you give your head a shake you fawkin yank. This new management doesn't seem to be very customer oriented. Making fun of a country that’s going to greatly contribute to your sales. You’re a fawkin idiot. The guy lives in Vancouver. Not the fawking Yukon. Go up to Alaska make fun of those potential customers and then see if you can sell crap to them.

Originally posted by Kraqa
0

WTF is this???? You come on here boasting about how your products are re-engineered and you customer service is top notch because of new management and then you start ripping on people because they’re from Canada. Why don't you give your head a shake you fawkin yank. This new management doesn't seem to be very customer oriented. Making fun of a country that’s going to greatly contribute to your sales. You’re a fawkin idiot. The guy lives in Vancouver. Not the fawking Yukon. Go up to Alaska make fun of those potential customers and then see if you can sell crap to them.

Did I miss something......I don't see any derogitory comments on Canada............is it not cold in Canada right now? If Canada is anything like New Hampshire (my home) they have long winters...

you are on Pirate4x4.....grow some thicker skin....but there is one thing I do understand and that is the cold weather makes people cranky........are you a little cranky right now? Go take a nap and get over it.....

Originally posted by Kraqa
0

WTF is this???? You come on here boasting about how your products are re-engineered and you customer service is top notch because of new management and then you start ripping on people because they’re from Canada. Why don't you give your head a shake you fawkin yank. This new management doesn't seem to be very customer oriented. Making fun of a country that’s going to greatly contribute to your sales. You’re a fawkin idiot. The guy lives in Vancouver. Not the fawking Yukon. Go up to Alaska make fun of those potential customers and then see if you can sell crap to them.


If you think thats "ripping" on people then you are on the wrong board.

I’m tired of people thinking Canada is the north pole, right now its 15* C out and sunny I’m wearing shorts. It’s not the arctic so get over your stereotypes. Maybe I’m not the cranky one, go out an throw up your confederate flags and deep fry your turkeys.

And I’ve never seen a igloo or a dog sled in my 19 years living in Canada.

Originally posted by Kraqa
I’m tired of people thinking Canada is the north pole, right now its 15* C out and sunny I’m wearing shorts. It’s not the arctic so get over your stereotypes. Maybe I’m not the cranky one, go out an throw up your confederate flags and deep fry your turkeys.

And I’ve never seen a igloo or a dog sled in my 19 years living in Canada.

Kiss my Yank ass..:flipoff2:

Originally posted by Kraqa
I’m tired of people thinking Canada is the north pole, right now its 15* C out and sunny I’m wearing shorts. It’s not the arctic so get over your stereotypes. Maybe I’m not the cranky one, go out an throw up your confederate flags and deep fry your turkeys.

And I’ve never seen a igloo or a dog sled in my 19 years living in Canada.

Give it a rest snowback! :flipoff2: Go drink some Molson and fuck a moose!

there are no moose where i live. i have raccoons. the occasional possom.

GUESS THOES RACCOONS AND POSSOM WILL HAVE TO DO FOR YA THEN:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

I haven't ran Rockcrawler stuff nor do I know too much about their stuff. But I think the bashers are being a little unfair with your bullshit statements. Rockcrawler answers most of your statements with great style, some humor, and so far is unwilling to bash the competition's stuff.
I say hats off to the guy, and fawk all you bitches who have your panties in a bunch.
One last note
ROCKCRAWLER GET A YELLOW STAR:flipoff2:

" I haven't ran Rockcrawler stuff nor do I know too much about their stuff"

So why do you chime in to tell us that you dont know what your talking about, :confused:

let the end item users who have used their junk voice our opinion's.

Anywhoo, is rockkrawler gona have any of the "NEW MANAGEMENT " stuff at Moab this year:rolleyes:

You guys are taking this whole thing way too far. We are close to Canada. We were just having a little fun.

Outshinded. We apologize for the remarks. We were just in Windsor Ontario last week on our way to meet with execs at Chrysler in Detroit. Windsor was actually a pretty impressive area. It was only for fun...

Stick-Roy

We will have the TJ Comp 8s WJ 6 and some truck stuff on display at Easter Jeep Safari 2004.

I believe my work is done since I have talked 3 friends out of buying your kits. (1 TJ and 2 ZJ) Bottom line is until your kits have real world testing (from people that actually abuse them) and have a near 0% failure rate, then you might gain some solid ground, but I really don't forsee that happening in the near future considering all the failures I have seen and witnessed on your earlier kits. But wait, thats going to change, b/c you are under new ownership, right? I applaud you for posting on BBs, but I think the members are one step ahead in formulation opinions of your company since we usually read about the failures first. This whole marketing ploy seems pretty Hardees-ish to me and no I still haven't had an angus burger from there, b/c from what i remember there food has always sucked (except for breakfast) and there are proven fast food places that I know I will get a tasty meal from, so I end up going back to them. BTW, it seems to me you are caught up on looks alot. "The solid stock looks cleaner, etc compared to square tubing with welded on ends." Do you think people that are really going to abuse your products factor in looks as a huge selling point? granted, you don't want to buy stuff that looks like ass, but I hardly recall square tube with welded ends looking like ass. Personally I think your links look a bit feminine as opposed to the burliness of square tube and big nuts. :flipoff2: Obviously you think they do, but I have never heard that argument before and personally I find it rediculous. Sadly, a lot, if not most people on this board would understand all the equations and properties of the tube versus solid-stock. You have to remember a good majority of members here build their own stuff and many hours are spent researching and understanding properties of the materials they will be using. So far the only ZJ LAs I have seen on the market that I would buy are Clayton's. His products are proven time and time again. I'm not talking about coils or shocks, etc but rather the heart of the suspension, the actual links and mounting system. I might change one part of his mounting system, however, to sleeve the "frame rails" and also run bolts through the "frame" for another measure of security, but it has proven to be not necessary and thats an OPINION. In conclusion, your biggest enemy right now is your past reputation and a close second is the shitty products that caused that reputation to be formulated. Good luck as a company...its a rough world out there.

EDIT: If you have not done so, you really need to address the rear UCA frame mounting points. Using the stock location IS NOT a good idea and I have seen those brackets rip off the Jeep more times than I can remember.

Originally posted by BMRisko
Bottom line is until your kits have real world testing (from people that actually abuse them) and have a near 0% failure rate,

Question: What has 0% failure rate? absolutely nothing!

Originally posted by BMRisko
This whole marketing ploy seems pretty Hardees-ish to me and no I still haven't had an angus burger from there, b/c from what i remember there food has always sucked (except for breakfast)

No lie, Hardees scored with their new burgers. Seriously they are the best (my opinon)... better than Wendy's. Try them.

Originally posted by BMRisko
BTW, it seems to me you are caught up on looks alot. "The solid stock looks cleaner, etc compared to square tubing with welded on ends." Do you think people that are really going to abuse your products factor in looks as a huge selling point?

Not true. Most ppl out there are not as "extreme" as us on Pirate. Most ppl with jeeps that are in the market for a lift try to find a good performing system that looks good and at a decent price. Honestly I think alot of people just get a suspension lift because it looks good. My opinion, why use welded joint ends why you can thread your tube and save money? Also, it "looks" more professional.

Originally posted by BMRisko
In conclusion, your biggest enemy right now is your past reputation and a close second is the shitty products that caused that reputation to be formulated. Good luck as a company...its a rough world out there.

True



Just as all the bitching started to die down you had to bring it back up again. Why couldnt of you posted this earlier. Oh, cause it would of been a repeat of what everyone has already said.:flipoff2:

Originally posted by JeepinAmerica.com


Question: What has 0% failure rate? absolutely nothing!

No lie, Hardees scored with their new burgers. Seriously they are the best (my opinon)... better than Wendy's. Try them.

Not true. Most ppl out there are not as "extreme" as us on Pirate. Most ppl with jeeps that are in the market for a lift try to find a good performing system that looks good and at a decent price. Honestly I think alot of people just get a suspension lift because it looks good. My opinion, why use welded joint ends why you can thread your tube and save money? Also, it "looks" more professional.

True

Just as all the bitching started to die down you had to bring it back up again. Why couldnt of you posted this earlier. Oh, cause it would of been a repeat of what everyone has already said.:flipoff2:

First off, finally someone learned how to quote properly! I said near 0% failure rate as in less than it has now. How many RE failures do you read about day to day? I'll have to try the Hardee's burger then. I didn't bring the topic back to the top, it was at the top on page 1 when I replied, so :flipoff2: .

We are not going to say we are perfect because no one is. Everyone on every board has his/her own opinion and that is cool.

We have our opinion on the solid stock control arms and we will back that up 100%. If you bend our 1 3/4 solid stock lower control arms God Bless You.

We are not changing our name! We feel that would be a farse. Go ahead and debate that all you want. We would rather take care of past customers and past issues that were created. Most of which appear to be from 2001. It would simply be running from the people on bulletin boards with a name change and it would not take care of past customers. It would be screwing them. Like we mentioned, the change over really took place in March of 2003 and since that time everything has improved dramatically. Our opinion only. Time will prove it to all would be doubters.

If you want to steer your friends away from our products that is fine, but what if it is truely the product we say it is backed up by honest people. You would be doing you friend a disservice. But that is cool. That is up to you.

Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinions that is what BB's are for. Debate away. Only time will tell for all you would be doubters. We will stand up for our products and support our customers 110%.....

If you really doubt it follow our competition vehicles this year in Neuroc, UROC and Super Crawl!

Rock Krawler-- I've always wondered, where are you located at?

Location says Albany, Ny

BMRisco, I ran RE for two years and still sware by it. Few arms are little bent and joints need to be rebuilt but its a hell of a suspension.

Man now thats a long post. Damn I could have built a long arm kit in the time it took to read all that.

Anyways, just wanted to let people know that Clayton Off Road Mfg. will be at Easter Jeep Safari 2004 from April 3rd till April 11th if your interested in checking out our kits. There will be a ZJ/Buggy white, TJ/Competition Jeep red #109, YJ/Coil Conversion Competition Buggy blue #327, Stretched TJ green, and probably a Yellow WJ.

See you out there.

Adam
Clayton Off Road Mfg.

www.claytonoffroad.com
203-758-6801

Originally posted by 99BoggerTJ
Man now thats a long post. Damn I could have built a long arm kit in the time it took to read all that.

Anyways, just wanted to let people know that Clayton Off Road Mfg. will be at Easter Jeep Safari 2004 from April 3rd till April 11th if your interested in checking out our kits. There will be a ZJ/Buggy white, TJ/Competition Jeep red #109, YJ/Coil Conversion Competition Buggy blue #327, Stretched TJ green, and probably a Yellow WJ.

See you out there.

Adam
Clayton Off Road Mfg.

www.claytonoffroad.com
203-758-6801

Hey adam you need to get a yellow star to pimp your product!

By the way I think I remeber you from JU pimping RK and really good buddies with RICK the former owner.


Are U the same guy?

Ya, I'm the same guy. I had a RK long arm on my TJ and had a few issues with it along the way. Rick, the former owner was always good about warentee stuff, but at this time I was also getting my TJ ready to run competitions and new it wasnt going to hold up. Clayton and myself met in a local club and both liked beating the crap out of our jeeps and decided that his suspension was what it would take to do well in competitions.

I placed 2nd in every NeuRoc event in the legends class, and am getting my TJ ready for this season in the Uroc series. 1st place all season in Legends class was a coil conversion YJ which was also bulit by Clayton. That YJ also took 2nd place overall in the Erocc series and will be competing this weekend in the Uroc Pro Nationals in Saint George Utah.

To make a long story short, I'm still friends with Rick who is not in the suspension business anymore, I still use RK coils and shocks, and I now work with Clayton building competition proven, hardcore long arm suspensions.

Anyways, goodluck with your rigs and Ill see you out in Moab in a month.

Adam
Clayton OffRoad Mfg.

You all are correct. Adam now works for Clayton. We thank him for working with us very early on and doing testing for us early on with the Old Gen I kits. We wish Adam the best of luck at Clayton's. Ash is correct, we are doing business now with Clayton, merely for complimentary parts (springs, shocks, track bars, etc.) We wish them the best of luck. We will support them to the best of our ability.

as much as i don't like the idea of solid stock arms, i do however like the idea of threading the solid stock for your rod ends.

ok, im a customer of yours, i bought your 7" LA kit this past summer, i have a 98 zj and im from wilmington NC, the guy i talked to on the phone was real nice, but gave me some very misleading info, first off he told me i should be able to run 37"s with that kit, then he mad a few coments like my jeep must be messed up if im scrubbing my 33"s, i wasnt to pleased after that last phone call ( it was mid nov.), ive had my tourqe arm bracket break on me in uwharrie national forest, and had to get some one to come weld me back up on friday night in the mtns so i would not be stranded 4 hours from home, i was pissed to say the least, if that thing had broken while i was runnin 80 down the highway lord only knows what could have happend, over all your long arms are to short, and directions suck imo, but i have to say the kit rides great, flexs awsome, doesnt make any noise, my only major complaint is with the arms, o yea six states took way to long with my drive shaft, but i guess shit happens, just a letter from a customer

O2be

Did the torque arm bracket fail at the weld? That weld is critical. We do have the gen II upgrade for you at a very reasonable price and will work for the rest of your components that makes that torque arm bracket obsolete.

Jeremy

O2be

R U shure someone said you could run 37's. On our website we recommend 33's and if you feel like hacking your truck to pieces you can run 35's. It really isn't such a factor of height as much as it is a factor of the small wheel wells Grands have. If someone said that, we apologize for him/her misspeaking.

7" lift with LA and 33?? haha. I trimed moderate amounts of my truck and can run 35's at 4.5" lift. now at 6.5" in the back and 4.5 in the front i could run 36". and thats with stock control arms in the rear. with a 7" lift you should be able to run 37's but you would have to trim. hell you should be able to run almost 40's with some trimming.

It's all about stuffage....i think 35's are about the max unless you want to buggyify your Grand.

Originally posted by Rock Krawler
O2be

Did the torque arm bracket fail at the weld? That weld is critical. We do have the gen II upgrade for you at a very reasonable price and will work for the rest of your components that makes that torque arm bracket obsolete.

Jeremy

I like the way you "take care of customers". Simply sell them the fix to the shoddy workmanship/design that caused the malfunction.

You just lost a fence sitter with the above quoted statement.

rescue

yea your just like humpty dumpty arnt you:rolleyes:
















:flipoff2:



and yes they do take care of there customers. if it was the bracket did they weld it on????????? nope

i would have to disagree, i mean yes 35's will fit very nicly into a fender well of a ZJ but 37's are not that much bigger and there is alot of usless sheet metal in the inside of the fender that is easily removable. unless if you wana keep a stock looking truck and stock bumpers then its just a lost cause

Originally posted by crawlinxj
rescue

yea your just like humpty dumpty arnt you

:flipoff2: Im always falling off something.

I see what you are saying about them not installing the braket. But I still like the way they will sell him something that will make the original system/design obsolet. If its that big of a problem that they had to redesign it they should take care of it. If that is the kind of standup thing they said they would do at the begining of this post.

My $.02

Itll be cheaper for me to build my own anyway.

Alright, I'm gonna throw my 2 cents in here once again. After some talking with RK about my past issues, and one of the older employees REMEMBERING me! I have a brand new kit on the way that they know I will not be using (will be going on a friends) to replace the first generation kit I had. I have already recieved some of the stuff. I will say ( not ass kissing ) the new kit looks much better than the first kits in construction and design. It took a long time, but I finally got my restitution. Thank you.

yea, i saw that i could up grade, but im probably gonna be selling the jeep, so i realy dont want to spend any more cabbage on it, as for description on the site, yes i read it carfully and saw that you suggested 33's, but i run with guys that have zjs with less lift and bigger tires, im not scared to cut, but i still say its becaue the arms are too short, anywho thanks for the qwick response, and i have nothing bad to say about your new kit other that i feel....yes im gonna say it once again{hint, hint}...the arms are too short, thanks again

Rock Krawler...how come you still haven't bought a yellow star?your still pimpin' your shit here,buy the fawkin star!!!

I really can't believe that I just read all that... :eek: :confused:

magoo117

You are mistaken. We are not trying to sell product here at all. Just correct old issues and take care of people that were not taken care of. Please reread the post.

Originally posted by Rescue35


I like the way you "take care of customers". Simply sell them the fix to the shoddy workmanship/design that caused the malfunction.

You just lost a fence sitter with the above quoted statement. Whatever dude thats the same as comparing RE's front tracbar setup to their heavy duty one. One can break and one costs a lot more:rolleyes: Some of you are so retarded. Companies make first and second generation stuff for the street wheelers to buy and rockcrawlers get the second generation stuff. The difference is price and NEED
BTW Rockcrawler just to make everybody here feel a lot more comfortable about your posts seeing as how you are a FourWheel Drive Vendor maybe you should get a hold of "Lance" and buy a yellow star. We would appreciate your support of the PBB. I know for a fact you would be more welcome here if you did.

I've been reading this thread for a couple weeks now, and am one of these people who has no personal experience with RK products.

That said, here are a couple of opinions.

-Solid stock....extra weight, and not necessarily any stronger than tubing with a wall thickness suitable for the application. I wouldn't and didn't use it for my own setup, however, I can see the cost savings for the manufacturer. One peice to stock, cut to length, drill and tap. VS. stocking weld on threaded ends or even more expensive, DOM with an inside diametre that can be tapped without machining.

-Changeing the name of the company....If a company has a bad rep and is bought out, keeping the same name and trying to convince people that you have truly changed seems like a stupid idea, why not start from scratch with your redesigned suspension, better PR , etc...........unless...........recognizing the inbred nature of the 4x4 world.......everyone knows someone who is related to someone who slept with someone who works for someone. Eventually the truth would come out that this new company actually used to be RK and they tried to hide behind a new name

-Mounts failing......if it is a factory mount on the vehicle that is failing, and this is a known problem, blaming the poor welding on the bracket is suspect...perhaps the current use that you are putting the bracket to is outside of the manufacturers design envelope. That puts the onus back onto you to redesign your product which it sounds like you have in this instance. My problem here is that you sound like your trying to pass the buck for responsiblility. If there wasn't a problem with the design why change it.

All of that was opinion garnered from this thread and this thread alone anyone doesn't like it :flipoff2:

P.S. I live in Canada and I don't give a rats ass if people have stereotypes about what the weather is like........actually keep thinking it is cold and miserable, I'd hate to live somewhere as crowded as SoCal :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Originally posted by jeep94xj
Alright, I'm gonna throw my 2 cents in here once again. After some talking with RK about my past issues, and one of the older employees REMEMBERING me! I have a brand new kit on the way that they know I will not be using (will be going on a friends) to replace the first generation kit I had. I have already recieved some of the stuff. I will say ( not ass kissing ) the new kit looks much better than the first kits in construction and design. It took a long time, but I finally got my restitution. Thank you.

I'd say that's a decent testimonial to their trying to make things right.

Let us know how it works out.

I've never un RK stuff, but I have driven grand cherokars with RK kits, Clayton kits, modified Clayton kits, modfied RE TJ kits, and Kevins kit. I don't think I"ve seen the gen 2 RK kit however.

The burliest and most trail proven is Clayton's. I dont think anyone can debate it. (and his rig is more chopped than mine so I must give him credit).

The best riding is Kevins (and from watchin it in action in AZ last week, it works really well). He was running 37's on 7.5" of lift and I thought it worked very well. I think you'll see more of it in the future.

There is a guy in Moab that runs the RK kit on his ZJ and really likes it, however he is at 8+ inches of lift and had to cut and lengthen his front arms to keep his 33's from rubbing the rear of his front fenderwells. I can understand that with a short armed rig at 4.5" of lift, but at 8" and long arms you should be able to run 37's pretty easily.

As far as the lift height/tire size thing for ZJ's. It just depends on how badly you want it. I sit around 5" and plan on moving to 40's sometime this year. Yeah, my rear fenders don't exist so I don't have the fitment issues as other ZJ's, but my front is the same as any other ZJ and I don't anticipate having to do a whole lot more to fit the 40's from the 37's.

Cody

I just purchased the RK 5.5 LA system for my 03 Rubicon from the only MD dealer. I installed it myself, and i will abuse the snot out of it @ PAP and RC in PA. And who knows maybe some Tellico. My Jeep is not a street queen, nor a trailer rig only. I thought the install went rather well, fairly simple and I like the fact that I have a choice in what t case skid I can run as I just spent 300 on a medics skid and didn't want to throw it away. I will post back up in a few weeks when I get my heap back from the stealership after the rear main is replaced and I can get a trip in to PAP and some upper black trails.

Originally posted by Rock Krawler
Beetle Bailey

You are correct. Thank you for bringing us down to earth to remember to entire point of this. We were jus tstarting to have a little fun since some things were getting so rediculous. We will continue to be straight to the point. We do feel humor is a must. It is part of what makes the world go round and bring smiles to peoples faces. But for this instance you are correct it probably does not belong here.

DEend

There are patents that are relevant, for example the tri-link conversion that another manufacturer is currently infringing on as well as a few other contracts we have now established in other market segments non related to the offroad industry. According to all the information we have and from what we have seen it appears to be less than 5% of the total customers that have been unhappy. Most of which were really early on when the company was new. Some of them were handled correctly and some were obviously not. Most of Rock Krawlers initial marketing was on the web and on boards by one of the previous owners. The few number of people that there really is seem to have infected the bulliten boards and are probably still on the boards for that matter. Again, we are here trying to correct old bad press and get those customers that we feel were done wrong rectified. Show product support for ourselves and stand up to BS. We are actually surprised other manufacturers do not do the same. For example someone commented on Rusty's. We are not familiar with Rusty's products, however we have done a limited amount of business with them and feel they are good people. We do business with alot of other manufacturers in this industry.

As for the triangulated 4 links that are bent we have NEVER had a failure of any of those components. Did we mention NEVER.

Are you fawkin kidding me right now. I've noticed a while ago that your website claims some "patented suspension" ..... and I did a little research because I was curious as to what was so innovative that was patentable, and guess what, YOU DONT HAVE ANY PATENTS, you had a patent application for a tri-link suspension that was rejected twice and then finally abandoned in 2002. You guys are total BS. Do you think you can patent an old design just because no one else has, you cant, it's called prior art. The line about keeping the RK name because of patent issues is total BS, there is no patent to keep and the RK name is not even on the abandoned patent application.

Sorry for bring this thread up, but this BS was too good to pass up. I post the same patent info in the JU thread but RK hasn't responded. RK seems to be responding a little more here. Post up some patent #'s RK, most products with patents state their patent number when they say it's patented, why dont you?

Originally posted by moveaside
Whatever dude thats the same as comparing RE's front tracbar setup to their heavy duty one. One can break and one costs a lot more:rolleyes: Some of you are so retarded. Companies make first and second generation stuff for the street wheelers to buy and rockcrawlers get the second generation stuff. The difference is price and NEED
BTW Rockcrawler just to make everybody here feel a lot more comfortable about your posts seeing as how you are a FourWheel Drive Vendor maybe you should get a hold of "Lance" and buy a yellow star. We would appreciate your support of the PBB. I know for a fact you would be more welcome here if you did.

How was dude supposed to buy it if it didnt exist? RK sold him the kit, when enough broke they updated it. When his broke they said yeah its a POS, buy this it will make it obsolet.

MY RK SHIT (http://www.tandg.rockcrawler.com/photo.html)

The new management replaced all of this and then some. The new stuff looks much better built then that crap that was on there. There was some confusion that was sent to me and what was really supposed to be sent. Anyways, they fixed it and I made out very nicely with some GenII arms with the Joints instead of the upgraded "thicker" GenI joints for no cost. Seems liek they're trying to turn things around!

ralphus100

Not only should your arms have been replaced, hell your joints should have been replaced for free too. Seems some things a while ago really fell through the cracks. Anyway, you are all square now. Good Luck with it...

ralphus, funny how your ends on the lower control arms look just like this one from BatteredTJ:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jjacobs149917/rk_crap/fd4a7224.jpg

good thing the arms are solid stock so they won't bend, too bad the ends rip apart.. :rolleyes:

Welcome back RK, do you have any patent numbers to share?

There are patents that are relevant, for example the tri-link conversion that another manufacturer is currently infringing on

Who are you refering to? Jeep?, Suzuki?

I'm new to this board, but I do know how hostile you guys can get and thats why Ive never really signed up until I saw this post about RK. For those of you who have never dealt with the new management or ever owned any of RKs products you have very little to no room to talk. No, Im not an employee of RK or associated with them in anyway, as a matter of fact I live in OH and have owned their products for about 3 years now. I will admit that their older SHIT sucked ass. I will admit that they were a bunch of assholes who cant take care of their customers etc, etc... I have been dealing with the new management (Jeremy) for the past couple of weeks and they really are trying to turn a new leaf. Do I think they're stupid for keeping the same name? Fuck yea. But, they are replacing all the old shit free of charge. For free of charge, so far I've gotten 4 new lower long arms, replacement krawler joints for the old heim craps, new trackbar, and the new torque arm for up front. Yes, they havent been posting on this site for a while now because of you guys ragging on their shit and they felt like theyre going nowhere with ya and its not worth their time. Like I said for the probaly more then half of you that havent even seen their shit, dealt with their customer service (the new and old), or owned their stuff you should have no room to talk. I'm not siding with RK or you guys, but I do own their products and their NEW shit I will stand behind. You havent been dealing with it for the past 3 years like I have....

Goat1

U.S. Case File 09/782,136

Originally posted by ralphus1oo
I'm new to this board, but I do know how hostile you guys can get and thats why Ive never really signed up until I saw this post about RK. For those of you who have never dealt with the new management or ever owned any of RKs products you have very little to no room to talk. No, Im not an employee of RK or associated with them in anyway, as a matter of fact I live in OH and have owned their products for about 3 years now. I will admit that their older SHIT sucked ass. I will admit that they were a bunch of assholes who cant take care of their customers etc, etc... I have been dealing with the new management (Jeremy) for the past couple of weeks and they really are trying to turn a new leaf. Do I think they're stupid for keeping the same name? Fuck yea. But, they are replacing all the old shit free of charge. For free of charge, so far I've gotten 4 new lower long arms, replacement krawler joints for the old heim craps, new trackbar, and the new torque arm for up front. Yes, they havent been posting on this site for a while now because of you guys ragging on their shit and they felt like theyre going nowhere with ya and its not worth their time. Like I said for the probaly more then half of you that havent even seen their shit, dealt with their customer service (the new and old), or owned their stuff you should have no room to talk. I'm not siding with RK or you guys, but I do own their products and their NEW shit I will stand behind. You havent been dealing with it for the past 3 years like I have....


Flame ON

Originally posted by Rock Krawler
Goat1

U.S. Case File 09/782,136

Yeah, that is what I have been looking athttp://pair.uspto.gov/cgi-bin/final/pairsearch.pl

This is not a patent, it is a case file that was rejected twice by the uspto and finally abandoned a year and a half ago. Everyone better lookout, all of our triangulated link suspensions are infriging on RK's failed patent application.

OK, that link doesnt work, go here http://pair.uspto.gov/cgi-bin/final/home.pl
and do a publication number search for 2002-0109325A1

Originally posted by Kraqa



Flame ON

Ok, I'm gonna jump in on this one. I already resolved my issues with RK and have been sent an entire new kit free of charge. They even knew in advance that I would not personally be using their kit on my XJ anymore (been off for over a year). I just mentioned to them that ralphus1oo was also having problems with his kit. They asked me to please have ralphus1oo to call them so they could resolve any issues with him. Looks like they did to me. It will take time to repair the damage to the name, but the "new" customer service is top notch.

Originally posted by Kraqa



Flame ON

Only if you let me :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Originally posted by GOAT1
OK, that link doesnt work, go here http://pair.uspto.gov/cgi-bin/final/home.pl
and do a publication number search for 2002-0109325A1

This link works, but i am getting no information from the site. It keeps giving me a no data warning.

I would love to get a copy as I wonder what could be patentable about a suspension design which is decades old. I have some very old suspension design books which discuss such designs.(Over 10 years old from my college days)

There is no mention of patented technology on their website. Is there a patent number listed on their packaging or product as is usually required for patent enforcement? Also a case number is not a patent. If a patent is pending a person (or corporation) is not infringing unless the patent is granted then damages and a cease and desist can be dealt with.

edit: Doh, old PC w/o java enabled. Got it now.

Originally posted by GOAT1


Yeah, that is what I have been looking athttp://pair.uspto.gov/cgi-bin/final/pairsearch.pl

This is not a patent, it is a case file that was rejected twice by the uspto and finally abandoned a year and a half ago. Everyone better lookout, all of our triangulated link suspensions are infriging on RK's failed patent application.

Nit picking!!!

Goat1

The original patents were rejected twice and probably will be rejected again. If you know the patent process that is pretty much a standard. It was abondoned by the previous owners do to monitary constraints and was reopened by the new owners on 4/14/03. The patent convers a bolt in tri-link conversion for Jeep products that came with a standard 4 or 5 link system. A triangulated 4 link being an engineering representation of a tri-link is also covered. This post is pretty much getting old now. Hopefully we have taken care of the people here we needed to. Good Luck to everyone on this board. Keep the rubber side down!

Originally posted by Rock Krawler
Goat1

The original patents were rejected twice and probably will be rejected again. If you know the patent process that is pretty much a standard. It was abondoned by the previous owners do to monitary constraints and was reopened by the new owners on 4/14/03. The patent convers a bolt in tri-link conversion for Jeep products that came with a standard 4 or 5 link system. A triangulated 4 link being an engineering representation of a tri-link is also covered. This post is pretty much getting old now. Hopefully we have taken care of the people here we needed to. Good Luck to everyone on this board. Keep the rubber side down!


Maybe you should let the patent office know that patent app was re-opened on 4/14/03, because it's not on the file history.

I'm not bagging on your product, I really dont care about them. I just care about the fact that you are falsely claiming you have patents and accusing other people of infringing on those patents. An abandoned patent application doesn't mean a thing.

I have been dealing with the new management (Jeremy)

The original patent application from 2001 was from a guy named Jeremy(assuming old owners from your post), so the new owner are Jeremy too.

Goat1

Jeremy is the one that had filed for the patents. Yes, he was one of the founders and is still as share holder and a valued employee. He is one of the ones that is helping to upright this ship. Now they have been reopened under Barton Asset Management. Jeremy does still hold the invention disclosure agreement however. We can't even believe we are having this conversation. Good Luck to you.

Why not? You are making claims of other companies infringing on a patent that does not exist. He has every right to call you on it.

Btw if you want to know about the messed up ZJ long arm here in AK you can PM me. I spent more than a few hours under that thing trying to make it drivable.

BlackJack

What are you talking about? Of course if someone takes your idea wouldn't you want a little credit for it?

As far as your friends ZJ is concerned, we would appreciate a call from him/her if she or he is our customer. It works much better to deal direct with the customer directly instead of third party information.

Originally posted by Kraqa
I’m tired of people thinking Canada is the north pole, right now its 15* C out and sunny I’m wearing shorts. It’s not the arctic so get over your stereotypes. Maybe I’m not the cranky one, go out an throw up your confederate flags and deep fry your turkeys.

And I’ve never seen a igloo or a dog sled in my 19 years living in Canada.

And I am tired of everyone thinking Az is one vast desert that is always hot. Get over it and yourself.....

Originally posted by Rock Krawler
BlackJack

What are you talking about? Of course if someone takes your idea wouldn't you want a little credit for it?

As far as your friends ZJ is concerned, we would appreciate a call from him/her if she or he is our customer. It works much better to deal direct with the customer directly instead of third party information.

Funny, are you going to sue Jeep for the three link under the Grand Cherokee and the Liberty? How about Land Rover? These all have three links under them.

Lets try this on for size. Black Diamonds original design for the XCL was bolt on and a three link in the rear. It was published (even advertised as such) well before you were around. Teraflex even has a bolt on coil conversion for the XJ that is a three link as well. You are trying to claim that a bolt on three link is your "Intelectual Property". The reason the patent failed the first time is that it is not a new idea. I guess you could try and patent the truss you use but that would be it.

As for the owner of the ZJ, he is a little busy serving his country right now to talk to you. If I hear from him I will let him know you want to talk. FYI, his kit is a 7 in ZJ plus spacers with brackets for an 8.8 rear.

I had the chance to drive a rubicon with the RK LA 5.5 today. The kit looked to be very beefy and drove very nice, no bumpsteer or DW. he has had the lift on for about a year, and has recently upgraded to the gen 2 style. he is very happy with it. so I'm going to take advantage of Rock Krawlers 15% discount for members and let you all know how it performs on the trail.

What is it with RK posts that bring out people that have never posted before, and when they do they sound like an advertisement.

First there was solidaxleford, then impressions, and now this one. My psycho-ESPN abilities lead me to believe that RockKrawler will come out of the woodwork again in the near future to protect/pimp his product again.

Originally posted by crawldad
I love Rock Krawler because I suck their dicks every day...


:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Fixed your FIRST POST for ya :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Originally posted by JohnnyJ
What is it with RK posts that bring out people that have never posted before, and when they do they sound like an advertisement.

I think it is just that only newb fawks even look at that garbage; if you ask them they'll likely think the stock control arms are 'beefy' too b/c of all of those neat bends & such... :rolleyes:

Originally posted by JohnnyJ
What is it with RK posts that bring out people that have never posted before, and when they do they sound like an advertisement.

First there was solidaxleford, then impressions, and now this one. My psycho-ESPN abilities lead me to believe that RockKrawler will come out of the woodwork again in the near future to protect/pimp his product again.

Well, that pretty much sumed up what I just said to myself. Bring on the newb's. Cant we do a little IP track or something FB????

Originally posted by apeters89



:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Fixed your FIRST POST for ya :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Well, that about put me on the floor. You are hilarious.......

Nothing in the market comes close to it..... I would even fit it on a TJ !!!
Forget about the RK
Eduardo

a PETER69, I heard you guys are hard core. I realize my post probally sounds like a sales pitch. But hey I researched LA kits for a while and think the RK is the best for the $. So I plan on giving anyone thinking about this kit a first hand opinion. If it turns out it SUCKS I'll post that as well.

a PETER69, I heard you guys are hard core. I realize my post probally sounds like a sales pitch. But hey I researched LA kits for a while and think the RK is the best for the $. So I plan on giving anyone thinking about this kit a first hand opinion. If it turns out it SUCKS I'll post that as well.


Don't think. You can only hurt the team.

If something is cheap and it sucks whats the point? I have many years in my lifted Jeep. A long arm kit isn't easy to change, particularly from one brand to another. Buy quality, you won't regret it. Rubicon Manufacturing, Full Traction, Tera Flex and even Fabtech all have good reputations and service. Go to them.

Skimp on your chrome mudflaps or something else that is easy to change.

a PETER69, I heard you guys are hard core. I realize my post probally sounds like a sales pitch. But hey I researched LA kits for a while and think the RK is the best for the $. So I plan on giving anyone thinking about this kit a first hand opinion. If it turns out it SUCKS I'll post that as well.

Damn, I guess I got put in my place :rolleyes:

ok, look here dumbfuck. There are a ton of people on here already posting up that these kits suck aids-infested monkey balls... we've been reading posts from some of these people for years now and have come to understand their level of knowledge and competence; we've been reading your posts for all of 21 days now, go fuck yourself. :mad3: :evil: :flipoff:

Ok RockKrawler, I'm callin you out. Nine long pages of how strong your solid stock arms are. Give us test data that shows solid is stronger than tube in this situation. You can't. Go to school and get and engineering degree, on the way, you'll find a class called "Deformable Solids" this class will teach you the math to understand this situation. If you'd like to see the math, pm me and I'll send you a writeup.

Goat1

This post is pretty much getting old now. Hopefully we have taken care of the people here we needed to. Good Luck to everyone on this board. Keep the rubber side down!


I agree I'm getting tired of looking at it too.

So I'm locking it.


If someone has some compelling reason why this should remain bitch at me in a PM.

Thanks and go back to posting about how to shift into 4wd.


:flipoff2: