well, something is strange with the original post I had about the HP D60 i am shortening for my TJ. It seems that I can edit it, but weird stuff happens when I try to reply and add more info. So I guess I'll start over for now. :(

We've done some work over the past couple of weekends. We cut it down by 2.5" on the driver's side and 2.25" on the passenger to bring it down to 64.5" between WMS's. It was taken to a friend's shop and their welder laid a couple of nice beads on the knuckles and also some around the pig with a mondo industrial welder.

This past weekend we started building the bridge for the driver's side upper control arm and the plates for the spring and shock mounts. The passenger side is just getting mocked up in the pic below.

We still have to build the lower control mounts and front gussets. The pass side spring mount gussets will be used to build the track bar off of, and we'll also use the gussets to build the sway bar mounts off. The LCA mounts will be made to also work as gussets in the rear for the shock/spring mount.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=466402&stc=1&d=1253137717

Here's a shot of the bridge from the rear. Most of the pieces are 0.25 except the bent horizontal piece which is 0.188. Most everything still needs to be burned in.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=466403&stc=1&d=1253137717

Here's a close up on the coil mount. We used some tubing in two places as spring retainers. I remember seeing someone else do it here on pirate4x4, and it works nicely. The lower bump stop is made of 3x3x0.125 and capped with a piece of 0.125.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=466404&stc=1&d=1253137717

This setup seems to be working pretty well. There is enough room on the driver's side tube for the control arm mounts, although they be'll spaced out a little farther than stock. The springs and shocks will be able to stay stock widths.

Later builds:

Wheelbase stretch and fully hydro: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=335724

Engine Swap: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=786015

I like the bridge. looks very professional

Yea, looks really clean! With some fat ass welds on the back side of the bridge will look sweet! Nice work, I do dig the coil retainer tube sections too!

Looks good!
I wish I had a sheer that would cut that.

Originally posted by 66CJdean
Looks good!
I wish I had a sheer that would cut that.

I wish you did too :flipoff2:

It's not mine, but a friend has access to the shop. With four guys we knocked out the pieces in about 45 minutes including bending the bridge. It is a sweet setup, too bad they have to do real work in there and we can't just take it over for our projects. :D

It took some tweaking to get the fit and figure out the coil mounts. We'll be back at it on Wed night if all goes well.

have you totally rebuilt the axle, the pinion seal looks really nasty, would use that or it will leak, just trying to help, but Im sure you already know that if your building a front 60.:D

Very nice work on the bridge, and I really like that spring bumpstop / retainer, thanks for the idea I will do it on mine too :D

Did you end up using custom shafts both sides or did you use an off-the-shelf short inner?

hmm.. I had big response typed in and lost it on submission. My connection has been crappy lately. :mad:

JM87 - Pretty much a full rebuild is in the mail, including 4.88s and Detroit locker.

Blue Angel - Driver's side is cut to be the same as a 2000 Super Duty. (16.17") Passenger is custom width.

I'm looking at going Dutchman import alloy's because of the price. My shafts have the neckdown, so I can't just cut and respline. So buying the Dutchmans is just a little more than buying a set of junkyard axleshafts and having them cut and resplined. From reading in Gen4x4 forum, it sounds like they will be a little stronger than stock. I'd love to do the Superior shafts, but I don't have the money to go all out.

I'm even keeping the stock 30 outers and just going with an 806x joint. The outers will be notched for full clips, and I may tack them, too.

looks good, nice clean job on the bridge.

bridge looks great...just dont think i'd want to attemp to do all that welding to the pig. I'm keeping mine full width, so hopefully there will be room for a bridge over it.

Originally posted by JohnnyJ

I'm even keeping the stock 30 outers and just going with an 806x joint. The outers will be notched for full clips, and I may tack them, too.

For the moment, I am also keeping my stock 30 outers. I don't think there is a need to tack weld or full-circle the caps on the U-Joint for now because most likely that 30 splines outer will let go before the U-joint will.

I want to full clip mostly because I don't want a cap backing out and shearing off a custom shaft.

Originally posted by JohnnyJ
I want to full clip mostly because I don't want a cap backing out and shearing off a custom shaft. Ditto, the joint can ruin nice shafts real easy, no doubt the outers will be the weak link, but have seen a lot live past the joints:D

Looks sweet can't wait to see it done. I really need to get out and run with you guys on a trail ride or two.

some updates. stock d60 ff 30 spline vs 40 spline semi d60 (going in the rear). rear just needs brakes. shocks have to be checked for length, but will do for an initial run. oh yeah, driveshaft, too.

rear upper mount for triangulating the rear on my re la. we made the bracket come off the frame for extra strength, also couldn't get the triag using the orig location

the rear uppers.

the springs and lowers. we cut the spring mount off a D35, so they aren't completely useless.

the front is sitting place, needs a drag link, track bar, brakes, wheel studs, shock tabs, a gusset for the upper arm, and a little paint. oh yeah, gears & detroit installed, shafts installed (long side needs shortening) and a drive shaft. and hubs need to be reassembled.

oh yeah, we have to swap on a stock pitman arm and ream it for the gm stuff. and the track bar bracket will be reworked, or more likely cut off and a whole new setup made.

and sway bar links.. but those will only be if I can find the space..

You went though the trouble of re-mounting the rear anti-swaybar :confused:
WHY?

and a final for now of the wheel & tire combo. this was after the rear axle was slid in place and the lowers attached. just after I figured out the original upper long arm mounts wouldn't work but before we built the new ones.

I'll be running 39.5x13.5x15 iroks (new) on 15x10 allied beadlocks (used). the front hubs are turned down stock units and are redrilled for 5x5.5. front brakes will be modified grand cherokee and rear will either be isuzu calipers (with park brake) or grand cherokee (no park brake).

and this isn't ride height. there wasn't on springs and the front was on jackstands, too.

You went though the trouble of re-mounting the rear anti-swaybar :confused:
WHY?

I didn't like how the jeep flopped around with the front and rear disconnected. I ran it that way a few times before the tear down, and as I would climb on off-camber stuff it would all of sudden flop to the side. trying the same line with the rear hooked up felt much more stable. probably takes away a little flex, but I want something that works on the trail more than on the ramp.

maybe I could tune it with shocks, and maybe it will be different with the new setup, but it didn't take much to put it on, so why not. after it's done I'll disconnect it a few times and see how I like it, and if it is fine without it then can always cut it off.

Nothing wrong with reusing the stock sway bars, I did it for both my diffs.

You will definetively need a brace that front pass. side UCA bracket.

I found that my stock pitman arm was way to thin to be reamed and I thought it wasn't safe, so I reused my dropped skyjacker arm, which was way more beefier.

Did you have fun welding the 4link frame brackets, I swore a couple dozen times doing mine :D

It is looking good, good job!

Thanks for the tip on the stock pitman arm. I haven't seen one in a while. A friend has one in a pile that he is supposed to bring over, so I'll have to take a look at it.

The front is definitely getting gussets, though it'll probably be one of the last things so that we don't build it into the way of something else, though I can't think of what it might interfere with. I was joking around that we might have to play with the metal muncher and put a bunch of speed holes in it. :D

A few more pics from the weekend. We had some time to work on it on Friday and Sunday. We finished up the steering and track bar, driveshafts, drill and tapping the hubs, shock mounts, and a gusset for the upper link.

We ended up dropping the high steer because the drag link was so flat and up high that there was no room to put the track bar. I pondered full hydro for a while, but I'm just not ready for that yet. We ended up putting the drop pitman arm back on and going with the stock ford axle steering, it's kinda low but gave us the room needed to get the drag link parallel to the track bar.

more

final

and a final for now of the wheel & tire combo. this was after the rear axle was slid in place and the lowers attached. just after I figured out the original upper long arm mounts wouldn't work but before we built the new ones.

I'll be running 39.5x13.5x15 iroks (new) on 15x10 allied beadlocks (used). the front hubs are turned down stock units and are redrilled for 5x5.5. front brakes will be modified grand cherokee and rear will either be isuzu calipers (with park brake) or grand cherokee (no park brake).

and this isn't ride height. there wasn't on springs and the front was on jackstands, too.


Arent isuzu calipers 6 on 5.5???

Arent isuzu calipers 6 on 5.5???

You do know what a caliper is right? :shaking:

oh yeah, we have to swap on a stock pitman arm and ream it for the gm stuff. and the track bar bracket will be reworked, or more likely cut off and a whole new setup made.

and sway bar links.. but those will only be if I can find the space..

Sounds familiar. :D Looks good so far.

BARK - like JohnnyJ mentioned, tall TJs wheel much better w/ swaybars. The major stability gains are well worth the slight loss in flex. One of the big differences between coils and leafs - besides the shape. :flipoff2:

- Chris

Arent isuzu calipers 6 on 5.5???

Isuzus are 6x5.5, so if I go that route I will use just the caliper and not the rotor. I already have the calipers, but after reading about some of the issues with mismatched brakes, I'm not sure if I wanna deal with it. If I can get my hands on a set of GC calipers (waiting on answer) then I'm gonna go that route.

The rear rotor will be a redrilled grand cherokee, which has a solid rotor. I had also picked up some solid front tracker rotors for the rear that are 5x5.5, but the hat is shallower than the GC stuff and we wanted to push the calipers further in.

Csnyder - Going back to low steer meant no mods to the front track bar, which was pretty much why we went that way. With the space involved, there wasn't much room to fit all the crap in place unless I moved the track bar way forward of the steering; which I wasn't thrilled about. Or maybe some other way of doing it by bending and twisting the links; which I wasn't in the mood to think about. Going back to near stock solved a lot of issues.

I hope to have it wrapped up by Sunday to get a test run in at the local wheeling spot before we head to Paragon on the last weekend in June (26-28).

Here's what's left -
- gears & locker (hopefully tonight)
- install shafts (using stock ford short inner @ 16.17" that I already have & custom long inner @ 32.32 that should be here on Thursday)
- install studs and finish up install hubs (studs here wed/thur)
- jam nut the drag link (3-5 days from Mon from PSC)
- front brakes
- rear brakes

Then it's a matter of topping off fluids and some other general maintence, but the fab work list is getting shorter. :D Good thing, too; my wife and credit cards can't handle much more. I have to sell the stock stuff to make it seem like it didn't cost as much. (And I'm afraid to add it all up..)

On that Upper locating arn there on the front I would add some more beef to that. What i would do is take a piece of 1" flat strap and start about 2" up that piece of box tubing and wrap it all the way around axle to about 2' up the back of the box tubing. This way you can't simply peal it off the tube like the way it is now. There is allot of force on that pushing and pulling so I wouldn't leave it up to just those welds with that kind of leverage. That .120 wall tubing will fail. my .02

I'm gonna leave it for now. The tube is actually 0.188. But I will keep an eye on it for any cracks around the welds or any bending.

Speaking of bending, we figured out that my long side tube was bent. We managed to put it back in alignment with a 10-ton porta-power, some heavy chain, and a bit of heat. We had never put the alignment bar through the front axle to notice it until after we installed the new custom long inner and munched the inner axle seal and caused it to leak. After installing a new seal and still having problems with the shaft sliding through we put the alignment bar in and found that we couldn't pass it through both pucks in the carrier. After a couple of hours we had it pretty close to straight and put it all back together and everything worked fine. A friend was taking pics, so I'll have to post a couple for those that like the hillbilly garage tech.

We did manage to get it all put back together and take it to the local wheeling spot for a trial run before heading to Paragon next weekend, and it worked awesomely. The rear didn't hop when climbing, and it felt super stable. On paper, AS% was close to 100. It climbed most everything I pointed it at (nothing is too hard there), but I did manage to put a hole in the thin rear d60 cover while backing up for a different line. Funny that I never put a hole in my stock 30 or 44 covers. :shaking:

No rubbing on the rear, the axle steer is so minmal that the tire tucks in very nicely. The front rubs a little on the back of the fender, but not enough to cause any problems. I could probably push the axle forward a little and solve it, but I'd have to look at the steering linkage to make sure it wouldn't bind.

Also, with the drop TJ pitman and using the stock ford steering, I did loose some steering. I may have to look at some old threads to see what may have similar drop but a longer arm that would give me some of my turning radius back. I'll have to check on my Wag to see if it is a longer arm, I remember something about broncos, too.

here's my list before next friday:
* breather on front axle
* paint front axle
* finish cleaning brackets off frame and paint
* install jam nuts on drag link when they arrive
* install new rear diff cover
* paint and reinstall rocker guards

the final details of what we did:
front: 78 ford d60, cut down to 64.5", short side uses 16.17" stock inner, long side inner is 32.32" moser, hubs turned and drilled to 5x5.5, grand cherokee rotors opened up and converted to 5x5.5, 1990 chevy s10 calipers with custom mounts, chevy 1-ton tie rods on 1.5x0.25 DOM setup for inverted T, detroit locker

rear: 74 dodge d60, cut down to 65", big ford ends, 40-spline moser shafts, spool, grand cherokee rear rotors converted to 5x5.5, liberty calipers and brackets (modified a bit), triangulated 4-link using RE LA arms

tires are 39.5 iroks on 15x10 allied beadlocks, I went with 4.88 gears to allow better launches with my nv3550/atlas 4.3; crawl is about 80:1 or so. The axles are both 4" wider than stock.

Of course I left my camera in the truck, but here's a poser shot that someone else took while in the parking lot.

J looks good man, I'd brace that upper control mount like dean said, are you going to use your flairs by chance? Any side profile flex pics of your rear tire. Just trying to see how much room I'm going to have with the 39 IROKS and stock TJ flairs on my 5.

Not sure on the flares. I was running 6" xenon tj flares before I did the project, but I know they won't cover up the whole tire.

I probably won't for the trip to Paragon since we won't be in much mud (if any), but I might for the trip to Drummond Island in a month or so since there is a lot of mud on the trails and it will at least knock some of it down.

I'll try and get pics next weekend of the tires stuffing, maybe sooner if I use my urban RTI ramp behind the grocery store. :D

Also, with the drop TJ pitman and using the stock ford steering, I did loose some steering. I may have to look at some old threads to see what may have similar drop but a longer arm that would give me some of my turning radius back. I'll have to check on my Wag to see if it is a longer arm, I remember something about broncos, too.


That is weird, I didn't loose any steering on mine with stock ford knuckles and same steering as you. But mine is only shortened 3". I also managed to push my front axle 2" forward.

I also did a lot of damage to my rear 60 diff cover, I will be building diff guards asap.

Parts Mike sells the front high pinion diff cover for $20, so I'm going with that for now. The front looks fine after bouncing off a few things, so it should hold up for a while. I still can't believe that the stock rear cover is that crappy.

That's weird with the steering. I wonder why I'm losing so much and you aren't, I wonder if it's the spool pushing in the rear or something else like that. Where I really noticed it was pulling into my driveway. I swung wider than usual and ended up on my neighbors lawn and had to back up and 3pt it; and that had never happened before.. I think my crew cab chevy has a tighter radius right now.

We had adjusted it while driving around a field and it looked from the outside and felt that it was getting equal movement side to side, and nothing else seemed odd about it, so I blamed it on the pitman arm. It looks like I have another little thing to look at.

I didn't like how the jeep flopped around with the front and rear disconnected. I ran it that way a few times before the tear down, and as I would climb on off-camber stuff it would all of sudden flop to the side. trying the same line with the rear hooked up felt much more stable. probably takes away a little flex, but I want something that works on the trail more than on the ramp.

maybe I could tune it with shocks, and maybe it will be different with the new setup, but it didn't take much to put it on, so why not. after it's done I'll disconnect it a few times and see how I like it, and if it is fine without it then can always cut it off.
Have you thought about using an adjustable bar like the anti-rock to find a happy medium?

your rear WMS is wider than the front WMS, im sure that has something to do with your turning radius.

Shear :rolleyes:

CNC Plasma cutter!

Looks good, did you correct the pinion angle on the 60? I didn't do mine at first, and then realized that I would bind the front ujoint when I drooped the drivers front the first time.

SeanP

Looks good!
I wish I had a sheer that would cut that.

Have you thought about using an adjustable bar like the anti-rock to find a happy medium?

Not really. It seems to work pretty well in the rear and the front does most of the work since its disconnected. I've gotten used to it over the past few years and it seems to do well. Before all the work, I could pull 1000 on a 30* ramp, so it wasn't like it didn't flex. If my list of stuff that I need to do gets low and I have an extra $200-300 then I might; but it's not high on the list.

your rear WMS is wider than the front WMS, im sure that has something to do with your turning radius.

That is the way they did it from the factory, I am 4" wider than stock front and rear. Seems odd, but that's the way the TJs are built. I'm sure that plays a role in it, but I don't think that is the only part.

The more I think about it, the more my head hurts, so I think I just need to get out to the garage and see how close to the stops I am when the box is cranked all the way back and forth to see if I can figure out what it is.

Shear :rolleyes:

CNC Plasma cutter!


Actually, we don't have access to a CNC Plasma. I used to have access to both 3 and 5 axis laser, but my friend quit that job. :crybaby2:

All straight cuts on plate were either on an 8' shear that chomps through 1/4 with no issue (not sure what it's max is) or the metal worker. Everything else was freehand plasma, cutting torch, or cut off wheels.

Looks good, did you correct the pinion angle on the 60? I didn't do mine at first, and then realized that I would bind the front ujoint when I drooped the drivers front the first time.


We didn't rotate the pinion when we cut it down, and right now the angle looks pretty good. Looking back at pics there isn't a good one. I didn't notice any binding when we had it twisted up. Yet another thing to keep an eye on.

I'm gonna leave it for now. The tube is actually 0.188. But I will keep an eye on it for any cracks around the welds or any bending.

Speaking of bending, we figured out that my long side tube was bent. We managed to put it back in alignment with a 10-ton porta-power, some heavy chain, and a bit of heat. We had never put the alignment bar through the front axle to notice it until after we installed the new custom long inner and munched the inner axle seal and caused it to leak. After installing a new seal and still having problems with the shaft sliding through we put the alignment bar in and found that we couldn't pass it through both pucks in the carrier. After a couple of hours we had it pretty close to straight and put it all back together and everything worked fine. A friend was taking pics, so I'll have to post a couple for those that like the hillbilly garage tech.

We did manage to get it all put back together and take it to the local wheeling spot for a trial run before heading to Paragon next weekend, and it worked awesomely. The rear didn't hop when climbing, and it felt super stable. On paper, AS% was close to 100. It climbed most everything I pointed it at (nothing is too hard there), but I did manage to put a hole in the thin rear d60 cover while backing up for a different line. Funny that I never put a hole in my stock 30 or 44 covers. :shaking:

No rubbing on the rear, the axle steer is so minmal that the tire tucks in very nicely. The front rubs a little on the back of the fender, but not enough to cause any problems. I could probably push the axle forward a little and solve it, but I'd have to look at the steering linkage to make sure it wouldn't bind.

Also, with the drop TJ pitman and using the stock ford steering, I did loose some steering. I may have to look at some old threads to see what may have similar drop but a longer arm that would give me some of my turning radius back. I'll have to check on my Wag to see if it is a longer arm, I remember something about broncos, too.

here's my list before next friday:
* breather on front axle
* paint front axle
* finish cleaning brackets off frame and paint
* install jam nuts on drag link when they arrive
* install new rear diff cover
* paint and reinstall rocker guards

the final details of what we did:
front: 78 ford d60, cut down to 64.5", short side uses 16.17" stock inner, long side inner is 32.32" moser, hubs turned and drilled to 5x5.5, grand cherokee rotors opened up and converted to 5x5.5, 1990 chevy s10 calipers with custom mounts, chevy 1-ton tie rods on 1.5x0.25 DOM setup for inverted T, detroit locker

rear: 74 dodge d60, cut down to 65", big ford ends, 40-spline moser shafts, spool, grand cherokee rear rotors converted to 5x5.5, liberty calipers and brackets (modified a bit), triangulated 4-link using RE LA arms

tires are 39.5 iroks on 15x10 allied beadlocks, I went with 4.88 gears to allow better launches with my nv3550/atlas 4.3; crawl is about 80:1 or so. The axles are both 4" wider than stock.

Of course I left my camera in the truck, but here's a poser shot that someone else took while in the parking lot.
Hmmmmm... Nice TJ/Ford/Dodge.... I always seem to miss the offroad adventures, but make it to the Garage...

Nice write-up Jonny see ya soon.