I think we should put our foot down and demand that we have Phil design the courses for us. They have proven it can't be done w/ out him or Craig and Craig isn't an option anymore. Now that the Pro's are going to Vernal it will be even harder to get 10 good courses built there. What do you guys think? Demands are harsh but I spent $1500.00 for nothin in St. George.

I think that this is the only way that alot of people will go back...

I talked to Mark and Ranch this weekend. They said Phil wanted several thousand dollars to design each course. They said they don't make ANY money.
I also talked to Phil who said they offered him $1000 and he would have to pay his expenses out of that.
Someone's lying.
I like Phil's courses. But the Patey's and Ranch may be willing to flush this sport because of a few thousand dollars.
BTW Mike designed the courses with Ranch's input. Mike's a good guy, things just got out of control. Mikes not getting paid either.

HEY UROC gonna SPIT or SWALLOW?

I talked to Phil and he said he asked for the same amout he was paid at RRCA. Phil spends 2 weeks on building the courses and I think Mike did it in a few days. Not to bash Mike but it takes a lot of time to design the courses. I don't think he was given a lot of time.

Originally posted by pure-adrenaline
I talked to Phil and he said he asked for the same amout he was paid at RRCA. Phil spends 2 weeks on building the courses and I think Mike did it in a few days. Not to bash Mike but it takes a lot of time to design the courses. I don't think he was given a lot of time.

If you are talking about Mike Baer, he's a good egg and an accomplished wheeler and judge. I'm not sure about whether he built the course or not, but I think it's obvious that is one of the most important things about an event. Hopefully we'll see some significant improvements in Vernal.


See you guys there.......(I'm spectating as a local :D )

I am not a competitor but i know phil and agree with team pure adrenalin. He is good at what he does, and after seeing the st. george event photo's these guy's are taking the sport to far and are going to get someone killed or badly hurt. I have been in the sport before it ever began. I have seen it progress, but these uroc members do not even know what they are doing anymore. I think they are going to fall just as fast as the others did. I think you the drivers are developing great rigs to compete on these extreme courses but you can only go so far. The reason am not a competitor is cause i spend way to much time and money on my rig to go trash it for 10 obsticles or even one, i do want to compete but the more they progress the more they take the fun out of what we all use to do for fun. I hope nobody get's hurt that bad and if they do they need to be looking at uroc for the fault. Phil is who needs to be designing the courses, for it was him who started out any way's. I hope you all have a great year this season and good luck.

IF ANY OF YOU CAN REMEMBER WHEN PHIL STARTED EVERYONE HATED HIS COURSES. HE GOT BETTER WITH TIME, BUT EVEN AFTER THE FIRST YEAR SOME OF HIS COURSES WERE PRETTY BAD. GIVE MIKE AND RANCH A CHANCE, VERNAL WILL BE MUCH BETTER! DO YOU THINK THAT MIKE OR RANCH OR MARK WERE HAPPY WITH THE SCREW UPS? THEY BUSTED THERE BUTS TO MAKE SURE EVERYONE FINISHED ON SATERDAY. THE JUDGES, MARSHALS, AND COMPETITORS ALL WORKED HARDER SATURDAY TO MAKE THE BEST OUT OF A FLAWED COURSE. FOR THE SM EVERY COURSE HAD PEOPLE THAT GOT LOW SCORES, THE COURSE WAS DEFINATELY TOO HARD FOR THE MODS., BUT CHANGES WILL BE MADE AND WATCH VERNAL. IF THEY DO NOT MAKE IMPROVEMENTS THEN MAYBE IT WILL BE TIME TO RE THINK THINGS OVER

What do you mean they worked there butt off for Saturday to run better? Course b4 about 12 of us signed off for 40's that course alone took 20 minutes to get one guy through it. A lot of guys didn't even unload there rigs and that saved time. So you add up the time saved. So everyone should thank the competitors for not wasting everyones time and let the top dogs compete. We have been at this for 5 years and we don't have time to waste for Ranch and Mike to get better at building courses. We all have too much money invested. Time will tell. I'm glad I went to the west series so I don't have 5 more UROC events to go to.

RJ you forgot to mention that they started 2 hours earlier and finished 3/4 an hour later with those fewer rigs on the second day. The courses sucked I can't believe Tracey is defending them on the other thread, he needs to look at the whole sport and what it needs to continue, if he only wants to compete on courses that the few top pros can make he wouldn't be taking home the other 90% of the guys money now would he ?
So we need to accomadate everybody, and let the scores show who won,and just as importantly show how close 23rd and 24th place were to give those guys something to shoot for, or we lose them.

Well said Jeff. With out us little guys adding to the pursue what would they be running for 3-4g's.

:)

Originally posted by raceanything
RJ you forgot to mention that they started 2 hours earlier and finished 3/4 an hour later with those fewer rigs on the second day. The courses sucked I can't believe Tracey is defending them on the other thread, he needs to look at the whole sport and what it needs to continue, if he only wants to compete on courses that the few top pros can make he wouldn't be taking home the other 90% of the guys money now would he ?
So we need to accomadate everybody, and let the scores show who won,and just as importantly show how close 23rd and 24th place were to give those guys something to shoot for, or we lose them.

I think you need to hang on a sec Jeff, First off i'm not defending anyone here but Mike baer. I've already agreed they were to hard for anyone but a deserving pro that was tried to be ranked and everyone whined about not making a pro class. You my friend just stepped up to a pro course this weekend and it didn't fit you. The only thing you can defend here is the course was not right for your class. Every course WAS completed the end of story. I'VE BEEN THE LITTLE GUY FOR 5 YRYS BRO AND ITS TIME A PRO CLASS EXISTED. They were trying to rank 25 drivers and we were going to put up our own pot and hope for ESPn to be impressed with the skills and bring bigger pots in the picture. I'm not out here to take your money or anyone elses, I'm here to prove i'm the best damn driver on the planet. That takes a competition my friend.

I'm pissed because i dug got damn deep for this win, after last years political feasco and being undergunned on a rig with my best friend that hasn't spotted in a year. There's no damn recognition for this win because of more shit from what Ranch Pratt brings to this sport. I ran an extra 2 scores on the b side for a victory and i'm damn proud of this win. Don't tell me i don't care about the little guy and that i'm not aware of what just happened to this sport. I feel we just took 3 years backwards and i just hope i'm around when its getts somebody that knows how the Fawk to run this as a motorsport and not a damn side show.

I feel for everybody that ran those course that weren't a qualified pro!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Of all the things that went wrong this weekend, in my opinion the most important thing did go right. The win was awarded to the right team. Tracy and Jerry worked harder and executed better than any team I saw! congrats guys, you earned it.

Tracy, I think I see your point,I guess we just see it differently. Yes, there were plenty of reasons for me not to succeed this weekend, not the least of which was stepping up to a new class, I did not mean to sound as though you didn't earn the win ( you and Jerry did and I congradulate you for it) nor did I want to sound like I'm bitching because I didn't win, or about the money.
I think where we disagree is that I don't think the courses need to get harder every time out to grow the sport, no other sport changes when the players get better, or the cars get faster.(Except for safety rules but we'll leave that alone here)
Some things I believe:
There will always be middle of the pack guys that should be strugging to make most of the courses with some points, not 40ing everything.

There should be progress points

If none of the top dogs can make it past a cone it's a stupid cone and not a good course. Anybody can design courses that can't be done.

Too much carnage is boring for even the most stupid, warm beer drinking, tattooed, wife beating, "I could do this with my Blazer if I had the money these guys do..." fan .

I think the best competition comes down to a few finness points. Not a stategy of "I'll blow over these 3 cones just to get to the end of the course because I watched all weekend and most didn't make it at all."

Well Tracy...... I don't think the "Pro" class needs obsticles that hard. Because I don't think there is actually 25 "pro" rigs and drivers out there. So for a spectator aspect I would think they would rather see more guys finish then point or time out. There was some big names out of the top 10. I hope Vernal is better but to me that town sucks for rockcrawling. It might be a tough town for UROC to redeem themselves.

Say there is 25 "pros"
shotgun start them on 5 10 minute courses each day and that gives you about 65 total minutes of action per day.

If you play follow the leader like Prorock you might stretch this out to 3 hrs max but you will then have the entire crowd trying to fit around 2-3 courses.

How many professional sport games last over 3 hours. Do you enjoy competing out there over 5 hours? People can only watch so much in the sun without stands and food running out at noon. Why do we need to start at 7:00 a.m, it would be nice for all to do a 10 to 3 gig. Uroc was so popular to so many because we were always outa there by 2pm. It will all turn out when theres not all the classes at the same event.

Check the numbers, you can't get 3 hours IF you have 25 pros. We all agree the sport needs to be 3.5 to 4 hours but it has to be FULL of action. This can't be done if the courses are like lasts weekend , first you won't get a large enough field to come out and second the action moves to slow (especially with only one or two rigs moving at any one time).

If we are going to make fans out of these people we need to get into their heads. We need live brodcast of head sets between driver and spotter.
We need anouncer that know (from a drivers standpoint) what is going on.
We need them to know how every cone or back will effect the team they are watching and the 5 teams they are closest to in points for the day and points for the season.
AND... we need to get it on some obstacles and crash occasionally.

Last weekend was the combination of the worst of UROC and the worst Of RCAA and they know it. Now let's see what they bring to the next event from what they learned.

p.s. I have heard since we got back they have Phil signed for the rest of the year.
But we have "heard" alot from these guys that hasn't been true.

Hey Jeff i agree with that as well, but the major problem was the courses didn't fit the classes. I just don't want the next course for the pro class to be in the negative numbers with the winner having fewer backups. Its about obstacles. The pro #s had a low on the a side at 39 for all 5 courses and a low of 97 for all 5 on the b side. Would you rather see it at all negatives?
Point blank if were going to make fans out of people this NEEDS to be ran as a motorsport and not a sideshow.

Originally posted by raceanything
p.s. I have heard since we got back they have Phil signed for the rest of the year.
But we have "heard" alot from these guys that hasn't been true.

Who did you hear that from? :confused:

Originally posted by smalltimewheeler


I'm pissed because i dug got damn deep for this win, after last years political feasco and being undergunned on a rig with my best friend that hasn't spotted in a year. There's no damn recognition for this win because of more shit from what Ranch Pratt brings to this sport. I ran an extra 2 scores on the b side for a victory and i'm damn proud of this win.


I know you ran great on the courses you were scored on over the weekend, but I can't help but feel like there were competitors out there who were jipped on the scoring.

You can't take away two "par 3" type of courses from one competitor leaving his other 3 courses at "5 pars". You can't let another competitor keep three "par 3" type courses and throw away two "par 5s". Of course the guy who ran the most "par 3" courses is going to have the lowest score. It's obvious the scoring wasn't true to all. If all competitors ran all the courses and kept all their scores, the out come of this event would have ended differently.

I understand how this win has a dark cloud over it for you, and frankly...that's unfair as well. But these were all things that were out of the competitors control last weekend and why so many are going through a roller coaster ride of emotions tring to decide what to do next.

You are totally right. It surely wasn't apples to apples out there. The guys that ran the b course the 2nd day got jipped harder but i guess anything couldv'e happened on any course. Its difanately not they way i wanted to win.:(

I haven't heard anything from Phil.... I'll ask him over breakfast in the morning.

Originally posted by redhead


I know you ran great on the courses you were scored on over the weekend, but I can't help but feel like there were competitors out there who were jipped on the scoring.

This is a correct statement but the problem with this argument is that Tracy had to run the B courses on day 2 and still won...the B courses were harder...he still pulled it off...so, Tracy is an even bigger champ now.

Still, I was VERY surprised to see how the "overtime" day was settled as it was unfair for everyone from 2nd place on down...you have to be compared on the SAME courses for an event to be fair. I hoe UROC is able to come up with an alteration of this rule to find a better solution for the future...even better, would be to run the events so effeciently that we do not have to use that rule.

It should be easier for them for a while- not the best decision to run the combined event first with 100+ teams and training wheels on the new org.

The true solution is to run things well enough to avoid the "did not finish" plan b. But maybe we as teams should start a thread on alternative plan b remedies which are better??

I think -for example- an average of courses ran would've been better than what we did but still not good enough.

That's the thing , they knew they had problems before they got started. You could tell by the way they presented themselves at the drivers meeting. They did not address the event at all except to shine on Shupes comment about rebar.
All winter the talked about 3-4 hr. shows and they had an itinerary made up ahead that said competition 9:00-6:00 ???
Don't forget they are two oganizations that have experience putting on shows and know what it takes.
I don't believe they have some hidden agenda to misslead us I just think this goes toward the lack of respect and GENIUNE concern they have for the teams. They still don't realize who makes this sport tick. Mark is good at what he does and does not even need to be at the events other than to show VIPs around and make sure the SHOW part of the show is looking good.
Ranch should stick to running the event, Phil should design the courses, someone should handle tech/rules on on down.