Has anyone ever used this style of saw/blade for cutting Multi-Cutter (http://www.dewalt.com/us/products/tool_detail.asp?productID=159). DeWalt Claims that cost per cut is cheaper than chop saw abrasive wheels. I am a little skeptical becasue the blades run about $150-160. Any experiences? Will this blade really outlast/outperform $150 bucks worth of abrasive wheels? Any advice would be great.

Later

I dont know but ill have one just to cut down on the carbide dust?:smokin:

makita sells something similar & I belive the blades are more like $100 . I have used one of these for demonstration purposes , and I really liked it (the cuts are square, sparks are still present but probably about 70-80% less, and you can change degree of cut via one quick release lever!)
In short--- I'm going to buy one for sure but I'll still keep my chop saw too. One thing to note is the blade is not 14" it is 12" so your current chop saw or bandsaw will still be needed for larger sizes.
check this supplier www.ramweldingsupply.com , and hit the makita link down at the bottom. $392.99 w/blade & free ship.
DeWalt version(14" not 12") at he same supplier $452.99

oh I have absolutely no ties with these guys but I use them for as many supplys as I can , and they have excellent customer service , and cheap prices.
hope this helps.
weldpro
:usa:

i bought the 14" dewalt. i love it, worth every penny. cuts clean,no burs. and no dust or sparks. my local shop sells the blades for $95 but i have not had to buy one yet. even if it does not cut for less than a aberasive disc i would still get one. i like it that much. but i bet it is cheaper per cut. my friend has had the same blade in his cold saw for 2 years and he uses it weekly.

Camo does the DeWalt have a Quick realse lever for the degree of cut adjustment? or do you have to use tools? Two more- do you still use your chop saw?, and have you used the DeWalt on Non-Ferrous?
weldpro
:usa:

check out this post: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22966

Hey Camo, Weldpro, how loud is it compared with abrasive chop saw?

Originally posted by weldpro
Camo does the DeWalt have a Quick realse lever for the degree of cut adjustment? or do you have to use tools? Two more- do you still use your chop saw?, and have you used the DeWalt on Non-Ferrous?
weldpro
:usa:

yes it has a quick release angle adjustment

nope gave my chop saw away. antigue

yes i have used it on, steel,cro-mo,stainless,aluminum,plastic and wood. it works bitchen


also much quiter than a abrasive wheel.

if you do much cutting just get one you will not be sorry

We use ours daily, however the cost I've seen on blades is a little bit more @ $165 ea. It works well the add says it can reduce you cost on blades by 50%. Also the blades can be sharpened. :)

the 14" is $450 at Harbor Freight.... anyone know were I could do better??

I really like the idea of this thing. I'm not a one man fab shop... yet, but would really like the less dust, less heat and strait cuts....


reminds me of the cold saws we had at work..... I liked those!!

Thanks Camo----------one more thing Where is the Dewalt made?(motor tag should say where it is built)
only reason I'm curious is that I have noticed that they(Dewalt) like to spec China to make quite a few of there tools! Like their chop saw for example Taiwan or china one of the two anyways. Most all of the Makita stuff is Buford , Geogia or Japan , and I belive there is a difference.
Thanks ,
weldpro
:usa: :usa: :usa:

rr77toy- yes these saws are qiueter but if you are wanting to cut at 1:00am yes you"ll still wake up the neighbors!:D

My saw is a Jepson and it was $500 a few years ago. I almost never use the old saw. The claim that it is cheeper is doubtful. If you don't cut something that busts a took the blade lasts a long time and yes it can get resharpened. To sharpen it costs about $30 because I almost always have a few teeth replaced and the cost of the Dewalt blades were $150 ea. I have used a few different blades and the Dewalt ones are by far the best. If someone knows where to get 70T blades for less I would like to know. Here are a few shots of what the cut looks like.
http://www.respite.org/images/cj66dean/44c3.jpg http://www.respite.org/images/cj66dean/44c2.jpg

Originally posted by 66CJdean
....cost of the Dewalt blades were $150 ea. I have used a few different blades and the Dewalt ones are by far the best. If someone knows where to get 70T blades for less I would like to know....


http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=42598

from my short research, HF claims to sell replacment blades for $120.... not sure if they are the Dewalts of not.. but worth a check...

weldpro-

saw is made in china. :(

blade is made in UK

i bought mine at my local ace hardware for $410. they had to special order it for my so they didn't mark it up very much. they also have blades for $95

damn it- I really thought that since the saw was "special" not to mention $450 that MAYBE they would actually build it here.
It totally pisses me off that our :usa: tool companies are starting to source the manufacturers oversees(increasing their margins yet no price break for the customer-WTF). Its not like they could not build em here , and make money its not like we're all paying HF prices for these so called BRAND name tools. This is a very bothersome trend to me so I will have to pass on the Dewalt no matter how much you guys like it , and go with the Makita from good ol Buford , Georgia - just like my chop saws- Too bad though cause 14" would be better than 12" =no sale here china= I have accidentally bought a name brand tool (4.5 grinder)that was made in china what a POS yes it worked but the tool had no balance , and vibrates enough that it'll make your hands go numb after only a couple minutes.
The oversees sourcing is not just DeWalt (but they do it alot), I have seen a Makita 4" grinder Milwakees chop saw & various othe items, Ingersoll Rands' lower line air tools, etc, etc. I think it sucks , and we all should really care. You're spending good coin for supposedly top line tools its not right , and everybody should be PISSED OFF(maybe we should just buy HF I mean were buying china anyways . FU to the sourcing managers at the above companies who think china is a palatable source for us customers.
weldpro
:usa: :usa: :usa:

<pre>Item # Description Status Wt Price Qty Total
39419RC Reconditioned Multi-Cutter Saw In Stock 46 $199.99 1 $199.99 </pre>

I just ordered mine last week from northerntool.com. It should be here some time mid-week.

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite



http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=42598

from my short research, HF claims to sell replacment blades for $120.... not sure if they are the Dewalts of not.. but worth a check...

If you order from HF, try clicking on the "order from printed catalog" and try the following product # 42598-5-ata.

The price changes to $105.99 vs. $120.

Can you use these blades on a standard chop saw? Should I buy my chop saw at harbor freight or get a Ryobi, or Dewalt at sears? I'm shopping around around for one right now so I'd like to get some pointers :D

Also what about drill presses?

Thanks

the regular chop saw turns too fast, the max rpm is somewhere around 1300rpm for the carbide blades. I think your regular chop saw turns more like 3800rpm. Wouldn't want to try it.:)

Originally posted by camo
weldpro-
i bought mine at my local ace hardware

y'know I get a warm fuzzy every time you say that. :D

Originally posted by marco
<pre>Item # Description Status Wt Price Qty Total
39419RC Reconditioned Multi-Cutter Saw In Stock 46 $199.99 1 $199.99 </pre>

hmmm, I like that price MUCH better.....


anyone had any experiance with factory "reconditioned" stuff?? Good at the original, or not worth the risk??

weldpro i feel your pain. made in china sucks. but if you settle for the 12' makita then your money will go to a company located just off the coast of china. at least dewalt is an american company and they do have lots of employees here in the usa. makita is a jap company who only builds enuff stuff here by minimum wage employees to be able to import thier other tools with less import dutys.


Ace guy....you know me.:D ace is the place. i even ordered my new porter-cable 7hp 60 gallon air compressor from my local ace hardware. i love that place.

just a thought...porter cable makes a 14" multi cutter. maybe it is built in the usa

Everything I've seen from Porter Cable indicates they're made here. At least all my tools say USA on em.

Camo-Good point about the Import dutys for Makita. Problem is that Japanese quality is very good- also Japan is not our enemy (:nuke: now anyways) nor are they communists (again thanks to us :usa: !) I will take a look at the Porter Cable saw as I have never heard anything but good about the company , its customer service , and I too have never seen anything but US made tools from them.
Interesting thread.
weldpro

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite


hmmm, I like that price MUCH better.....


anyone had any experiance with factory "reconditioned" stuff?? Good at the original, or not worth the risk??

When I placed the order, my thoughts were... For less than half the price of the price of a "new" one, I get two tries to make it right. Maybe I'll get lucky on the first try and come out ahead by a couple hundred dollars. If the second one is needed, and it does happen to malfunction, hopefully I can combine parts and get at least one working unit. I'll let you know what the warranty is, when I get it.

For all the pro-USA made people out there... Hopefully my unit will be USA refurbished at least. :D

According to Dewalt's web page:
<pre>All DEWALT® High Performance Industrial Tools come with a warranty package that includes:

30-Day, No-Risk, Satisfaction Guarantee. No questions asked. If you're dissatisfied for any reason, just present your proof of purchase for a full refund within 30 days of purchase.


One-Year Free Service Contract. We'll maintain your tool and replace worn parts for free, anytime during the first year after purchase.


Full One-Year Warranty. We'll repair any defects due to faulty materials or workmanship at no cost to you — for one year from the date of purchase.

</pre>

weldpro-

agreed makita makes a very fine tool.

but take a look at the quality of a dewalt made in china verses a harbor freight made in china. they are two completly diffrent grades of manufacturing. the dewalt and other quality tool mfg design the products here in the usa and have much more strict quality control standards than cheap imports. just sucks they are not built by american workers. but at least in todays global economy they ( dewalt ) are an american owned company and that is why i buy all thier power tools. even if some are built in china.

so anyhow who is gonna go out and get one from reading this thread?

ace guy-
what kind of deal can you make for pirate4x4.com members?

Originally posted by camo


so anyhow who is gonna go out and get one from reading this thread?



I'm SERIOUSLY concidering it... the $200 reman unit looks very affordable..




ace guy-
what kind of deal can you make for pirate4x4.com members?


hmm... same question :D

First off, this is a great Post.

I used to be a Dewalt Tool Rep, one of my buddies still works there, hooked me up with a cold saw for $180!!!!

As far as the Chinese made stuff, yea I think that it sucks too. On the other hand, if it were made here in USA it would cost a lot more. Ever try to buy a made in USA drill press??? BIG BUCKS.

My first chop saw is a B&D IC (Industrial/Construction) saw that is make in China. IC is what was rebranded as "Dewalt" by Black & Decker. I got it at a deep discount when I worked there and was very annoyed that it was not made here. However, it has lasted, and lasted and lasted. I can't even count how many blades that it has gone through. Great tool. I'd still rather have a Milwaekee, but for the price it has been great.

Anyone got any first hand experince with inexspensive chinease made band saws? I heard that if you run a good Starret blade, they do OK.

Lastly, if you guys don't have a hand held "Porta-band" - get one, they are really handy for fixing F-ups.

Later,

Stumbaugh

Originally posted by camo
ace guy-
what kind of deal can you make for pirate4x4.com members?

I sent you a pm about this camo. I'll check on it today. Thanks for the support of your local ace, BTW. :D

ok stopped by the local tool supply on the way to the office and it turns out the makita 12" multi cutter is made in china.

comes with a blade ... http://store.yahoo.com/toolsplus/p-c1410.html

Camo Oh no,
I'm really bummin out now- are you absolutely sure? You saw it with your own eyes? I would have sworn that the one I used had a Georgia tag on it.
Has anyone ever used KI tools Wisconsin I belive(Kalamazoo Industries) thay make very sweet chop saws for very reasonable prices $500 ish I am going to check , and see if they make a multi cutter that doesnt have a cold saw type price. The motors on these tools are gernerally top notch Baldor units.

Camo- I agree with your statement about quality with the name brand products built oversees. They CHINA must be a whole bunch cheaper than Taiwan because china seems to be the source now. hhmmmm...... interesting huh?

Ace guy Can you get the Porter cable Multi cutter?

weldpro

viewed it with my own eyes this morning. :(

just got off the phone with porter cable. thier cold saw model # 1410 is made in tiawan. guess were are SOL on an american made adafordable cold saw. :(

Originally posted by Stumbaugh
Anyone got any first hand experince with inexspensive chinease made band saws? I heard that if you run a good Starret blade, they do OK.

Lastly, if you guys don't have a hand held "Porta-band" - get one, they are really handy for fixing F-ups.


my argument against the chinese porta-bands is that none of the ones i've seen is variable speed or even 2 speed for that matter and in my experience alot of times that's the difference between binding the blade and breaking the blade. but if i were just gonna buy one tool it just might be one of the $79 chinese porta-bands .... alot you can do with it.

- jack

hey camo, what model compressor did you order ?

http://www.portercable.com/cgi-bin/products.cgi?method=byid&prod_id=CPLC7060V

and yes it is made in the usa. not to bad for $399

that's alot of compressor for $399 camo ...

- jack

Originally posted by camo
weldpro-


so anyhow who is gonna go out and get one from reading this thread?

ace guy-
what kind of deal can you make for pirate4x4.com members?



I ordered mine today!!

yeah ace guy hook us up!!! I always buy stuff there

Adam,

Originally posted by Aceguy


I sent you a pm about this camo. I'll check on it today. Thanks for the support of your local ace, BTW. :D

I sent you an email & PM, Aceguy.

If you can get the reconditioned Dewalt saw, I'm ready to order! :D

Porter Cable is made in Guelph, Ontario. Canada eh? (that's north of you guys)

I have a dewalt just about everything... I have both style of chopsaws, the shitty one and the good one. Both are shitty. I feel like stringing myself up in the rafters of the garage for not buying the cold saw, as opposed to the abrasive saw I have. Even making a bumper is a pain in the nards since I have to do everything with the make up air unit on (garage door open)

Now, the dewalt 870 chop saw is good in the aspect of not blowing the circuit breaker unless you stand on the handle, while the 871 will pop the breaker if you hold your tongue the wrong way... (20 amp) The 871 has a hand adjustable fence and a much larger working capacity than the 870, plus it's more ergonomicly friendly. I originally went out and bought a case of dewalt 14" abrasive discs thinking that they had the right idea in manufacturing these things. Wrong. Granted, I will probably be able to pass on the discs to my grand children even after making 18 billion cuts, It's almost break time before I can cut through 4" channel... So I went out and bought generic discs. Much grande better. Good tools if you have time on your hands, or don't mind it when you have black snot that gives you headaches. Aluminuminumum is a pain to cut with these too, millions of pieces of near melting alloy bouncing off the back stop into your skin. Forget stainless.

When I forked out the dough for the 871 earlier this year I hadn't paid much interest into the 872, since the salesman at the local bulk industrial everything store hadn't sold one, and hand't heard of one. After reading this thread and having other trades man walk up to me and tell me about the multi-cutter (after throwing steel and tools around me for about 20 feet in frustration) I'd be more inclined to get that model. I wasn't entirely sure that the capacity would mirror those of an abrasive chop saw. ie: thick steel, channel, angle, small wide flange, pipe, tubing etc as opposed to cutting galvanized framing material for new homes/offices. My opinion at the time was that the 872 couldn't cut anything over 1/8". Looking at the cut axle tube that's obviously a different story.

If it were my money again (next spring I'm sure) I'd go out and purchase the 872, rather than deal with the mental anguish any longer. I'm dewalt all the way. They're colorful, look good in the service bodys, match all my black and yellow extension cords, have a wicked stereo/battery charging system, have kick ass cordless tools. Also, they're softer plastic meaning you can drop them off of a ladder when it's cold (cold cold cold) out and not shatter them into a million pieces. Plus they're double insulated as opposed to having to deal with a ground plug. (some cords don't got em!)

However, I wouldn't consider any of they're tools junk, just bad lemons and perhaps outdated. I've had makita's (yucky), porter cables (not bad stuff) milwaukee (good, but too pricy) and craftsman (*giggle*). I even had a hitachi electric battery operated 3/8" impact which was extremely expensive that I didn't like which subsequently fell apart. I SWEAR by dewalt.

Just got a new insiders catalog from HF, price for a recon multicutter down to 189

I got one of these about 6 months ago from Harbor Freight for $199. They ran out of them and it took about 2 months to get mine. I ordered the remanufatured one but they sent me a new one. I guess they couldn't get any more of the remanufactured ones at the time.

It is a great saw. I've cut through 2 x 3 solid stock, 2 x 6 x .25, 3 1/2 x 1/2 round stock. It is amazing it cuts very quickly with very little pressure. The quick adjustment for angles is easy to use although I wish it would go farther than 45 deg.

You'd be crazy not to get one at $189.

Originally posted by ChiScouter
Just got a new insiders catalog from HF, price for a recon multicutter down to 189

OK, I've been out to Northern and HF sites can't find these anywhere. How do I go about getting one of these? Excuse the density here, but I wants one!!!

Item# 55144-2TVA

p/n DW872R

Catalog# 202

Free shipping coupon# FS 562-965-401

THANK YOU ChiScouter! Mine is now ON ORDER!!!!

I also noticed out on the Dewalt site, check it out, you can get a free grinder or 70T blade!!!

It's valid from January 1 to December 31, so if anybody just bought one, send this in!

http://www.dewalt.com/us/images/articles/rebate_dw872.pdf

I also followed this boards advice and got the reconditioned mulitcutter.. Best tool I ever bought.. The thing is unreal and it makes feel smart when I cut shit. That makes it worth every penny. RK

Originally posted by ChiScouter
Item# 55144-2TVA

p/n DW872R

Catalog# 202

Free shipping coupon# FS 562-965-401

Everytime I try to order it say's NA??

You gotta call to order it. The fine print on the rebate says not on recon models. As reluctant as I am after my experiences with my dewalt abrasive saw, for $189 it was too good a deal to pass on.

I hear this multicutter has some sort of aux clamp. One of the problems I've had with the abrasive is cutting things at an angle, the piece tends to walk into the blade and create curved cuts. I has been devising my own aux clamp. Anyone have a pic of what this thing looks like?

BTW, I second the post saying there are better blades than the Dewalt ones (abrasive) I bought what looked like a cheapy brand "Black Smith" at the Steel Yard the other day and was stunned at how much better it cuts, smoother, less vibration and less burr on the back of the cut.

What's the max rpm on the multi-cutter blades?


And why the heck doesn't anyone make a metal cutting saw like my wood cutting sliding compound miter saw?? How cool would that be?

a lot slower than a wood saw so what you are thinking wont work. :D 1300RPM

If it would work, the sliding miter would be very sweet. I'd even settle for something of the quality of my Dewalt compound miter saw setup to run this blade. Machined table with a PIVOTING SAW, rather than the cheesy pivoting fence. Like this:

http://www.dewalt.com//PC_Graphics/Photos/DEWALT/TOOLS/LARGE/7/DW706%_2.jpg

How damn hard could that be. What really irks me is that this thing cost more (new) than my made in USA Dewalt coumpond miter saw, and it is POS by comparison and is made in China. Something is wrong with this picture.

I think the problem is that the target market for these things are people like plumbers and guys hacking rebar. People like us are doing a lot more with them that what they were really designed for. The hitachi is the nicest looking one I've seen and just look at this excerpt from their press release:

"The introduction of this tool is in response to installers of piping and plumbing for electricity, gas and water supplies who prefer dry cut saws because of their clear advantage over grindstone cutters’ extensive sparks, dust and discoloration of cut surface."

Anyone here work for Dewalt, Porter, Makita etc? I bet the first one to build a high quality accurate dry metal saw like one of the better compound miter saws at a similar price will selll tons of them.

I'm tempted to try and make my own hybrid.

Originally posted by Shrock
a lot slower than a wood saw so what you are thinking wont work. :D 1300RPM

If it would work, the sliding miter would be very sweet. I'd even settle for something of the quality of my Dewalt compound miter saw setup to run this blade. Machined table with a PIVOTING SAW, rather than the cheesy pivoting fence. Like this:

http://www.dewalt.com//PC_Graphics/Photos/DEWALT/TOOLS/LARGE/7/DW706%_2.jpg

How damn hard could that be. What really irks me is that this thing cost more (new) than my made in USA Dewalt coumpond miter saw, and it is POS by comparison and is made in China. Something is wrong with this picture.

I think the problem is that the target market for these things are people like plumbers and guys hacking rebar. People like us are doing a lot more with them that what they were really designed for. The hitachi is the nicest looking one I've seen and just look at this excerpt from their press release:

"The introduction of this tool is in response to installers of piping and plumbing for electricity, gas and water supplies who prefer dry cut saws because of their clear advantage over grindstone cutters’ extensive sparks, dust and discoloration of cut surface."

Anyone here work for Dewalt, Porter, Makita etc? I bet the first one to build a high quality accurate dry metal saw like one of the better compound miter saws at a similar price will selll tons of them.

I'm tempted to try and make my own hybrid.


this is what I have been thinking about for some time...
wouldn't compound angle cuts be sweet with a radial arm saw..?
what would be wrong (besides rpm) to run a abrasive wheel or multicutter blade at a angle to the steel?

would the blade flex to much and be dangerous?
I wanna be able to cut at a vertical angle and horizontal angle to the steel at the same time...

any opinions on why this wouldn't work?
I think a chop saw could be taken apart at the hinge and mounted to a custom made mounting device that could swivel two ways...?

Originally posted by Moab Austin


this is what I have been thinking about for some time...
wouldn't compound angle cuts be sweet with a radial arm saw..?
what would be wrong (besides rpm) to run a abrasive wheel or multicutter blade at a angle to the steel?

would the blade flex to much and be dangerous?
I wanna be able to cut at a vertical angle and horizontal angle to the steel at the same time...

any opinions on why this wouldn't work?
I think a chop saw could be taken apart at the hinge and mounted to a custom made mounting device that could swivel two ways...?


TOP!!!

nobody ever answers my q's on here...fawkin pussies :flipoff2:

Originally posted by Moab Austin


this is what I have been thinking about for some time...
wouldn't compound angle cuts be sweet with a radial arm saw..?
what would be wrong (besides rpm) to run a abrasive wheel or multicutter blade at a angle to the steel?

would the blade flex to much and be dangerous?
I wanna be able to cut at a vertical angle and horizontal angle to the steel at the same time...

any opinions on why this wouldn't work?
I think a chop saw could be taken apart at the hinge and mounted to a custom made mounting device that could swivel two ways...?

Flex in the "tool arm", fence, and work holder are a problem. Look at the difference in mass between a drill press for wood and a mill for metal. Also note the elaborate clamping setups available for mills.

If you do your homebrew setup as described, see if you can beef up the hinge area to prevent lateral flex.

Good luck and make sure you post some pics on this thread.

my 2cents

FYI, HF canceled my order on the $189 multicutter saying they were no longer available.

HF cancelled mine too... No notice or nothing...

Next best price I found was $316 for refurb'd from Dewalt factory store here local... This sucks.

Originally posted by Shrock
You gotta call to order it. The fine print on the rebate says not on recon models. As reluctant as I am after my experiences with my dewalt abrasive saw, for $189 it was too good a deal to pass on.


When ya snooze, ya loose, guys!:flipoff2:
You had your chance way back when this thread started ...

I ordered mine online from HF back in October and with a code (I saw here) for $ 169.00 pricing.
It was backordered then and at the first of the year HF wrote and asked if I wanted to cancell ..... "no", I replied.
March comes and do does my like-new cutter!
I used it a couple of times to make sure it wouldn't burn up or run backwards, then printed out the free cutting wheel promo form (which I also found out about on this thread).
No disclaimer about remans either...
Called HF to get a REAL hard copy invoice dated March ... no problem as that was when they charged me credit card.
So I sent that and the UBC sticker from the box (as required) in June.
And guess what was in that big square flat package I got yesterday? Yep, my brand new bonus blade.... ;)

I was hoping and waiting for the extra blade before I attemped to slice the spindles off a Dana 70 for fear I'd surely screw and chew that DeWalt blade up on such thick stuff, ....
no way! Chopped through 3" x .5" tube LIKE BUTTER!
Hot, cha, cha ... :p

Originally posted by pmaddy
Has anyone ever used this style of saw/blade for cutting Multi-Cutter (http://www.dewalt.com/us/products/tool_detail.asp?productID=159). DeWalt Claims that cost per cut is cheaper than chop saw abrasive wheels. I am a little skeptical becasue the blades run about $150-160.
I use one in my shop. We went from an abrasive to this. We would burn through 10 abrasive wheels every 1-2 weeks. So add it up. $5-6 per blade....and you've got $60 every couple of weeks.

Benifets: (1) The blades don't walk like abrasives ~ cuts are consistantly clean and straight. (2) no mess, they throw chips not dust. The chips are easily swept'd or picked up with a magnet. (3) No smoke. Holy fumes-in-a-closed-up-shop-in-the-middle-of-winter Batman.
(4) Speed. These things are FAST. At least 3x faster than an abrasive.
(5) Cost. Sure, the initial cost is a bit expensive. Blades are expensive. I used the first blade for 2 months until it went dull. I then bought a second blade to use while the original was being sharpened. I now have three blades. We use one per month, the have it sharpened for $20. $20 per month now versus $120-180 in abrasives.

But are they nessasary? Depends on how much fabricating you do. These are like Snap-ons new gear-wrenches....if you've never used one, you don't know what you're missing. If you have, you can't do without it.