52-inch tires?
20-inch rims?
Rockwells?
Wider than full-width (full-axles PLUS massively offset 15" Intercos)

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

Seriously, these rigs can twist the hell outta the forklift or ramp, but c'mon, what's up with eXXXXXXXXXXXtreeeeeeeeeeeeem rigs that won't fit on the trails or even carry a lunchbox and a sleeping bag?

These rigs make some sense for competition, or perhaps the lunar landscape dez... but what's up with every Billy-Bob, Moe, and Curly building their junk like it was a competition rig, then never leaving their own locale?

Guess I'll keep building my junk for trail running... guess with all the cool kids building eXtrEEm rigs, there might be fewer folks on the trail. :D

Randii

So what are you saying? Are you implying these rigs are not riding the trails?

So what are you saying? Are you implying these rigs are not riding the trails?
I really wondering whether they do. Where do you put your tent and sleeping bag when you're wheeling the Assassin, and can you take both slices for bread for the sandwich? ;)

Maybe they have 'support rigs' to run 'drag.' :D

These rigs make sense in the dez... like Johnson Valley.... or at events, but I wonder how many see much actual us on the trails. Moreover, I wonder why folks who *do* run weekend-long trail trips are considering emulating the competition crowd.

Randii

I know I would love to drive some of these in my neck of the woods but it would never happen. I carry a fair bit plus there is no room for the dog.

Ever heard of a trailer? :flipoff2:http://www.pirate4x4.com/trailreports/rubicon_0701/Image027.jpg

IM NEVER GONNA GET IT NICE TRAILER :emb: :emb: :emb: :emb: :emb: :emb: ps nice tankkkkkkk

Lance, you *may* be an exception.

Randii

Ive seen a LOT of them on trails in AZ ;) I agree though they're not designed for multiple day trails without the use of a trailer. Then again, theres only a few multiple day trails I can think of... No need for a sleeping back in Johnson Valley, Moab, AZ.. :D

Thanks for sharing your opinion. I think it is a TO EACH HIS OWN kinda thing. I would love to build a tube chassis full width rock buggy just for the experience. I think it would be alot of fun. I keep tossing the 1/4 eliptic idea around just for the education since it is pretty unneccessary here in Washington. That doesnt mean they are wrong for building them. I would imagine they are pretty capable rigs and maybe all that strong equipment takes a two day trail down to a day run since it is much easier to accomplish. I know just what I have done to my Jeep has made full day runs like Elbe into a 3hour tour. We have to try to make it a day now. Just wheel it

Originally posted by randii
I really wondering whether they do. Where do you put your tent and sleeping bag when you're wheeling the Assassin, and can you take both slices for bread for the sandwich? ;)

Maybe they have 'support rigs' to run 'drag.' :D

These rigs make sense in the dez... like Johnson Valley.... or at events, but I wonder how many see much actual us on the trails. Moreover, I wonder why folks who *do* run weekend-long trail trips are considering emulating the competition crowd.

Randii

Who says they have the desire, or means to run weekend long trails that require camping equipment?

And who says you can't build in storage on these vehicles that would have room for such camping equipment?

I know from my days of backpacking for days/weeks at a time, you can pack in everything you need in a pretty compact backpack. Although most of the vehicles you are referring to are pretty minimalistic, I see more than enough room for the contents of a backpack in there somewhere... wouldn't you agree?

DRM< Once again, you are not reading what he is ssayoing. Helkl I can go a whoile weekend with barley anythihng, but how about food, and liquids? Oh yea, some people forget about those. I build a buggy, and now I sold it (mainly due to money issues), but I am building up a cruiser here shortly. I wanna wheel and have some room to store crap as well. I agree with Randi, but at the same time, I wanna be able to build another competition buggy soon, but for that reason alone, it is gonna be a COMP buggy.

Dimitri

what's the point? who cares? I will have rockwells, 44's, and rear steer under my current rig (to debut on Memorial Day in the con, comeawn) and I rarely leave my backyard (the Rubicon) to wheel elsewhere and I never compete. I'm not sure what your point is. I run the con ten + times a year, and usually a couple runs to some un-named places in Nevada, and that's about it. Maybe one day when I don't have the same responsibilities and can leave for three + days I'll do some traveling, but for now it's unlikely. Does that make me less of a wheeler? :rolleyes: I would say that most people that go through the trouble of going this big love the sport and love to wheel. Almost nobody buys rockwells to show them off at the mall. To show them off at the trail, maybe. But I don't see a problem with that. So what if they aren't equipped with much storage. They wheel. Leave them alone.

Originally posted by Flatty
DRM< Once again, you are not reading what he is ssayoing.

Excuse me, but I did read it... and replied to it.

But if you think I missed something, what part do you think I missed?

TO ME, it looks like he is the one who doesn't "get it". It looks like Randii is applying his own set of 4wheeling "needs" and "wants" to someone else's life. It looks to ME like he is assuming everyone wants to wheel what he wheels, and where he wheels, and how he wheels.

Not digging on Randii, but that is what I see it as.

Everybody has their own needs and wants for 4 wheeling. that is why there are ATV's, bikes, dune buggies, trucks, Jeeps, SUV's, Suburbans, rock buggies, hybrid cab trucks, and on and on.... Everyone picks the one that fits THEIR OWN NEEDS AND WANTS.

And IMHO, it is rather silly to apply MY wants and needs to YOUR trail rig.

Who says they have the desire, or means to run weekend long trails that require camping equipment?
Nobody. :rolleyes: Certainly, to each, their own.

I see more than enough room for the contents of a backpack in there somewhere... wouldn't you agree?
Out of principle, I can't agree with the DRM. :D It is *conceivable* but when I look at a one-seater rock buggy set up for maximum approach and departure angle, I have a hard time imagining where I'd put a tent, a mattress, and a sleeping bag... let alone a toothbrush! :D

Ummm... my question is more to the folks who are building their rigs to look/work like the competition rigs. I'm earnestly, honestly asking... if you aren't intending to compete, why tolerate the space constraints, handling faults, and other compromises inherent in a competition rig.

Judgement comes easily to some folks... do me a favor and don't assume that questions from me are just that -- questions. No judgement -- you can build wahetever you want.... but I'll still ask questions.

It's what I do. :D

Now is anybody gonna answer, or are we just gonna run in more circles about the intent of the question? :flipoff2:

Randii

I think they build these things because it's fun. I'll finish my EB this year and when I do I'll start building a tube buggy. I'll buy an old Jeep or EB, get it registered, and go to town!

If I had an assassin, I'd make it street legal and drive around town. I think parking lots for off-road shops need to be full of RTI ramps. You drove the Honda? Park on the street.

Sometimes it's not all about the functionality. It's about spending a year in your garage drinking bear with your buddies and bending tube. It's not the destination, it's the journey.

randii since your description fits my new rig i shall respond.

simple i have a motor home. :flipoff2:

for the sierras i have a roof rack. no big deal. also note when i go wheeling i always have my wife and 2 young children. they bring alot of stuff and i can easly pack it all in to the con.

Randii, I thought I did address your points... But perhaps it would help if you reduced them down to a single sentence or two for me...

What are you questioning exactly? Big tires? big axles? or body/tube designs and space constraints? What *exactly* are you complaning about? ;) :p

Randii, I thought I did address your points... But perhaps it would help if you reduced them down to a single sentence or two for me... What are you questioning exactly? Big tires? big axles? or body/tube designs and space constraints? What *exactly* are you complaining about? ;) :p
Nuthin, DRM, I ain't complaining about nuthin, or nobody... :rolleyes: A question is not necessarily a complaint...

Since you want me to break it down, let me pull quotes out of my previous posts on this thread:
“What's up with every Billy-Bob, Moe, and Curly building their junk like it was a competition rig, then never leaving their own locale?”
“...I wonder why folks who *do* run weekend-long trail trips are considering emulating the competition crowd.”
“...if you aren't intending to compete, why tolerate the space constraints, handling faults, and other compromises inherent in a competition rig.”
More simply, why do non-competitors build competition-style rigs, and accept all the sacrifices resident there-in?

Heck, I fully understand the challenge of *building* a competition rig... that frankly sounds like a BLAST to me. I just can’t see ‘wheeling one on the trails. I know my dog wouldn’t care much for it! :D

Randii

randii last i remember you wheel a Amigo. if your dog could talk he would probally tell you thats :rainbow: :flipoff2:

the reason i wheel a competition type vechile rather than a amigo is....ah never mind. your right we should scrap or piles and hob together amigos so we can....what a second what is it that you think that amigo can do that mine can't? i guess i just don't understand.

Originally posted by randii
I just can’t see ‘wheeling one on the trails. I know my dog wouldn’t care much for it! :D

Randii

This is exactly it Randii. YOU can't see it...

Again, you are applying YOUR standards to someone elses rig.

Why should I care about your dog? I don;t carry a dog on the trail with me, so I have no need to make room for one and it's supplies.

I don't do overnight trails - therefore I have no need for camping supplies in my rig like you may want in yours.

I just don't understand this somehow makes either rig any better or worse?

Originally posted by randii
Ummm... my question is more to the folks who are building their rigs to look/work like the competition rigs. I'm earnestly, honestly asking... if you aren't intending to compete, why tolerate the space constraints, handling faults, and other compromises inherent in a competition rig.

Randii

So what about the barely street legal muscle cars? Are the guys that throw a 454/blower on the bottle into a 60's Chevy wrong? .

What about the production "race" cars from the 60's, Boss, Shelby Mustangs, what was the factory thinking?

It's all about what works for you

Again, you are applying YOUR standards to someone elses rig.
Yeah, that's it. :rolleyes: Clearly, DRM has mastered judging others based on their questions. Whatever. :rolleyes:

He misplaced the smilie guide, and the ability to stay on topic? :emb:

I told you what I was looking at for a 'wheeling vehicle -- it has to fit 130lbs of Newfoundland and enough gear to handle long weekends on the trail. I asked some other folks to explain why they built what they built... as I have qualified repeatedly, it is not about 'better or worse' (DRM's words), but rather about learning.

So, in case anybody missed the question, repeated above, then buried in off-topic trolls, and posted again here:
Why do non-competitors build competition-style rigs, and accept all the sacrifices resident there-in?

Randii

It's all about what works for you.
Amen... :cool: ...but half the fun is talking about **WHY** it works for you, whatever 'it' happens to be.

Randii

Originally posted by randii
So, in case anybody missed the question, repeated above, then buried in off-topic trolls, and posted again here:
Why do non-competitors build competition-style rigs, and accept all the sacrifices resident there-in?

Randii

Jeesus you are dense tonight :rolleyes:

WHAT SACRAFICES ARE THEY MAKING?

Or are they just omiting things THEY do not need, but YOU would need for YOUR rig?

Do you see what I am getting at yet? sheesh! :p

I remember back a few year to my first Rubicon trip. I was running IFS and 33" tires. The whole back of my 4Runner was loaded with lots of spare parts, camping equipment, food and such. I got a little lost just after the little sluise and went back to the main trail where I joined up with a group of Jeeps that new the way. I thought I was loaded but each of these Jeeps had a large fully loaded trailer. I thought it was strange they were bringing so much stuff but when we arrived at the springs it became clear. They were packed with enough stuff to camp in comfort for a week at the springs. When they set up camp, it was on a grand scale. Every comfort of home was at there fingers. Each rig in this group tried to out do the others with the most "home-like" camp site.

Personally I don't like camping all that much and enjoy the wheeling more than the camping. I actually avoid camping when possable. Now that I have a motor home I sleep there when going to places like Johnson Valley. Before I never spent more than two days at Johnson Valley because it's so miserable to camp there. The wind and cold make a tent nearly useless. One night of camping there was all I could take. Now with a motor home I can sleep for days in comfort on the lake bed. I actually carry more spare parts now cause I can store them in the motor home.

When I go wheeling I prefer to keep my rig as light as possable. I carry a jacket, lunch box, tools and very little else. I find I do mush better and break much less when I carry as little as possable. My rig used to weigh 3800 lbs at it's max. Now I am down to 3,500 lbs and plan to remove another couple of hundred pounds when I cut off the flat bed and cab.

I still plan on doing camping required trails like Rubicon, but as harder and harder trails are developed I don't think the expedition style rigs packed with lots of stuff are going to able to make these trails. I know there is no way I could take my old 4Runner on some of the trails and lines I run now.

The way I see it there will allways be those who enjoy taking their full bodied rigs on long excursions with lots of camping but an off shoot of the sport is the group thats into driving the hardest stuff they can find.

Jeesus you are dense tonight :rolleyes:
Yeah, because I talk about what I'm after, and ask about others?

I'm tired of your attempted provocations. :zzz: All argument, no substance. :rolleyes: You're talking about the question without addressing the content.

Guess I'm just dense. :flipoff2:

Randii

Let the 130lb Newfoundland drive and you can be the spotter. :D:D:D

Originally posted by randii
I'm tired of your attempted provocations. :zzz: All argument, no substance. :rolleyes: You're talking about the question without addressing the content.Randii

Randii - your refusal to see what I am saying as ABSURD.
What am I trying to provoke? NOTHING. I am simply trying to understand just what you are looking for here :confused:


For example, you start off with this:

52-inch tires?
20-inch rims?
Rockwells?
Wider than full-width (full-axles PLUS massively offset 15" Intercos)

What do these have to do with room for your dog, or room to pack gear to camp overnight? Please explain the correlation, because I sure don't see it :confused:


And what about the title of this thread:

Bigger is Better, Who Cares if It Wheels

Are you stating that the bigger the rig, the less they wheel? What is this supposed to mean? And how is this "asking why" people build their rig like you claim this thread is supposed to be here for?

Seriously, these rigs can twist the hell outta the forklift or ramp, but c'mon, what's up with eXXXXXXXXXXXtreeeeeeeeeeeeem rigs that won't fit on the trails or even carry a lunchbox and a sleeping bag?

Again, who says THEY need to carry a lunchbox and a sleeping bag? If that is not what they use their rig for, why do they need to pack for YOU?


These rigs make some sense for competition, or perhaps the lunar landscape dez... but what's up with every Billy-Bob, Moe, and Curly building their junk like it was a competition rig, then never leaving their own locale?

No Randii - they make sense to THEM. I may think your Amigo is a piece of junk - overweight and under built, but that doesn;\'t mean squat, now does it? It fits YOUR needs, you BUILT it to USE it lke YOU WANT... Just like these terrible "big rigs" you are questioning...
So I ask again - what is the difference in you and them?

Guess I'll keep building my junk for trail running... guess with all the cool kids building eXtrEEm rigs, there might be fewer folks on the trail.

So now you are assuming they will not be on the trail? Why? And what do you think they are building them for, if not to be on the trail?

No, again I just think you are imposing YOUR view of what is a "trail" on THEIR uses... something that is unrealistic on your part. I see pics of them on the trail posted here all the time - are they faking it or what?



I am not trolling here Randii.. I am simply pointing out your ill-formed view for what it is.

Man, I wish you could step back and see you are oll over the board in this thread - flip-flopping so much you don't seem to know WHAT you are saying :(

You start off with the premise these people don't actually wheel, and that these big-tired rigs are of no use, then you come back with this :confused:

It's all about what works for you.
Amen......but half the fun is talking about **WHY** it works for you, whatever 'it' happens to be.


Yes Randii, but so far every "why" I have thrown out you have managed to shoot down without even thinking about it... makes me wonder what you *really* intend to gain from this thread.... :(

"When they set up camp, it was on a grand scale. Every comfort of home was at there fingers. Each rig in this group tried to out do the others with the most "home-like" camp site."

Sounds like a rover rally :) ever see a dormobile? ever see one on swampers :rolleyes:

everyone builds/buys their rig for their purposes, some people I am sure have RWs/BB/44s and get no further than some nice pics on ramps and easy local trails but I am sure it was a great challenge for them to build it and mod it and thats ok

likewise I am sure a lot of people with RWs/BB/44s wheel them everyweekend or have set them up with enough storage to go out for a long weekend

I "CAN" live for a weekend with about 20lbs of gear and food, do I want to, NO!

To each his own. If everyone did the same thing with the same rig where would the fun be?

Ron

You know that gets me thinking about the Camel Trophey runs. They run these rigs though some realy hard stuff but they are just stock rigs. I wonder how much fatster these runs could be done with a fully setup purpose built rig?

if you aren't intending to compete, why tolerate the space constraints, handling faults, and other compromises inherent in a competition rig.

Simple: to have a better rig. You don't have to have a comp only rig to run a well designed suspension.
It's like asking "If you aren't intending to compete, why tolerate the extra cost of buying big, meaty tires?" There's obviously some disadvantages to every modification you make. But the reason THEY made the mods, is because the advantages outwieghed the disadvantages, in their particular case.

Although it may be painful for me, I am going to have to agree with DRM here.:emb: I don't see what you were trying to achieve here...If you were actually asking why people build extreme trail rigs, then you have plenty of answers. If you just brought it up to tell everyone to look and see that people build rigs that cannot carry a lot of supplies, BFD, we know...let's end this thread at that. And if you did it just to give you a higher post count or piss off DRM, then well done and :flipoff2:

Brandon

Oh, yeah. Gotta love the :rainbow: tank, Lance. lol:D

OMT, who the fawk wheels an Amigo, and gives a shiit about what competition style rigs are doing?:rolleyes:

i think drm pegged it :D

Originally posted by randii
when I look at a one-seater rock buggy set up for maximum approach and departure angle, I have a hard time imagining where I'd put a tent, a mattress, and a sleeping bag... let alone a toothbrush! :D

I've carried everything I needed (and more) on my back for 3 days on occasion. If you really needed to survive for a few days at a time in one of these stripped down rail-buggies, it's certainly doable. You see guys on ATV's & snowmobiles doing it (as well as backpackers, as I mentioned).

You just have to strip it down to the necessities. When I went from wheeling a full-size Jimmy to a CJ5, I had to get a lot more creative about where I put my stuff - and I cut out a lot of crap too (like the stereo LOL). You'd just have to apply that same approach to a rock buggy, but take it a step further. Again, assuming you even WANTED to stay overnight away from your tow rig ;)


TEX

I understand what your saying Randii. I know people that pretty much run only the local Sierra trails and have rigs with almost no cargo space at all. These guys usually throw their camping gear in with a buddy. I personally don't have the time or money right now to go buck wild and build an insane rig so I run what I brung, which is pretty much what I've been running for the last several years. I can't afford to keep up with the Joneses and frankly I don't have the desire to. My rig gets me where I'm going and it's fun getting there. I would love to be able to take some of the wild lines that others do, but for now I'll settle taking the lines that make it challenging for my vehicle and look on with some envy as others tackle the more difficult ones.
I also enjoy bringing people that wouldn't normally be able to make it to places like the Con, and for this reason I still have a bed on my truck, they can bring their own Ice chest along with whatever sleeping bags/tents/food/chairs etc... they feel like.
To each their own.

Originally posted by randii
It's all about what works for you.
Amen... :cool: ...but half the fun is talking about **WHY** it works for you, whatever 'it' happens to be.

Randii

shoot, it's more than 'half' the fun!:D Good thread starter Randii! BTW, most of the local trails here, ie 'TMTC at gilmer' they have problems fitting between the trees. The one's built like that around here are mudders...whats the deal with riding in the mud pits? Rocks ROCK!:flipoff2:

Kinda have to agree w/ DRM in that you're questioning has been a little um... I dunno? ...but I'll take a stab at this one:

Originally posted by randii
Why do non-competitors build competition-style rigs, and accept all the sacrifices resident there-in?


It seem fairly obvious to me that the latest "trend" in wheeling is the "extreme" style trailered rigs, w/ big tow rigs or motor homes back at camp, etc.

Why? First of all, its kind of new, and its a trend, and you'll probably agree, it would definitely be FUN to build and wheel an extreme rig.

However its not for everybody, and not all of us want this as our "main" form of wheeling. The trend may fade to some extent after a while... (I'm guessing).

You start off with the premise these people don't actually wheel
Ummm... nobody else here has ever posted an extreme title to spark discussion? :rolleyes:

I'm not here to please DRM, or discuss/fight with him... that's like wrestling a pig -- you both get muddy and the pig *likes* it. I aired a question to the general community, and got more than a few answers... :cool: :D

Great discussion! :grinpimp:

Randii
Mongrel Amigo - never was 'in' style, guess I'm not too bummed to be outta style :p

i feel left out. i tried to pick a fight with you but you just ingored me. :flipoff2:

well i guess i can be bumped in the extreme rig catagory. no top/windsheild/doors. but i built it because it showed up cheap. and it works for me. the next rig will be a fj55 with doors and a hacked off top, but i am keeping the windsheild. it will be on rockwells and 48s. i can build this rig with a 500" caddy/turbo 400 and street legal for under 2500.00 bucks. go anywhere i feel and fit in the wife,3 kids and the dog plus a shitload of beer. i have a fj62 now that works great on 38.5s but i know the axles are just waiting to pop a birfield. but i truly love driving over a tough spot with 6 people onboard. it should just be real easy with a little more tire and bullit proof axles. i will build this next one up because i can, i really don't need it hell i could just use a samuria and a good winch and do any trail in the nation. but its what i want and i can do it. i will not compete on a national scale but will hit moab,silerton,clayton, poteau and various sites close to home this year and it will work great at all of them. i do it because i can, i have the ability and it won't cost me a fortune to do. plus i love building up cool rigs, hell its fun. if i had my shop done at the house i would have allready built a super light weight rotary powered 1 seat buggy on zook axles, just because i think it would be cool to do and wouldn't cost me shit. plus we could see how far we could jump it in the back yard. set up a course and time everyone for shits and giggles. drink some more beer and try it again. sounds like a blast to me. mike

i feel left out. i tried to pick a fight with you but you just ingored me. :flipoff2:
Hey, beeyotch, don't make me...
Well, I oughta...
Yer momma...

Damn, I guess my heart's just not in it. :p

your right we should scrap or piles and hob together amigos
Besides, the way I read it, you were agreeing with me! :flipoff2:

Not responding to the orginal question, and not taking things in context, :eek: AIGH! :eek: I've contracted DRMatitis! :D

Randii

Here is my $.02 for what it is worth. I think it is just evolution of the sport or hobby or whatever you want to call it . When I look back through my scapbooks of when my parents wheeled the latest mod that was done to there old Flat Fender was the addition of a simple roll bar , then replace the model 25 front end with a model 27 and so and so on but you get the message hell the only locker in those days (early 1950's) was done with a Lincoln .
Personaly my rig still has to pull double duty , it leans toward the more modiffied side but yet still has to be on the street every now and then even though it drives like the ass end is allways trying to pass the front. You have to build a rig that make sence for yourself whether you camp with a motor home or out in the brush.
The hobby or life style of off roading has gained so much in popularity it only makes sence that we are seeing so many different rigs out there these days.

ill admit to a point that its nice to have the storage.... but id rather be doin the hard shiat than carrying my pillow! GET IT

Originally posted by randii
Ummm... nobody else here has ever posted an extreme title to spark discussion? :rolleyes:

I am not holding that against you in any way, and I fully inderstand a "hot" topic title draws people in... I would likely do the same or something similar.

I'm not here to please DRM, or discuss/fight with him... that's like wrestling a pig -- you both get muddy and the pig *likes* it.

I am not sure what your hangup is Randii - but grow up. You posted a thread, I replied. Stop trying to make this out to be more than it is....

Besides, it sure looks like there are more than a few tho have posted here who see what I am saying, but are still at a loss as to what YOUR point was... Stop a second and think about that, will you? ;)

I aired a question to the general community, and got more than a few answers... :cool: :D

Speaking of answers, you have yet to address most of the questions I had for you... no matter, if you chose to ignore them that is your call ;)

Personally I'd like to see more people build extreme rigs. I am tired of seeing good trails get stacked under so someone in their midly built wheeler can force their way thru to say they have done it.

Besides, it sure looks like there are more than a few tho have posted here who see what I am saying, but are still at a loss as to what YOUR point was...
Yup, and others have posted the other way, as well, seeing my original point, but not understanding what you added. It's all good, either way :D

Speaking of answers, you have yet to address most of the questions I had for you... no matter, if you chose to ignore them that is your call ;)
David, if you're really interested in individual answers past the direct answers I have provided, I suggest email. :p If the questions are outside of the main drift of this thread, start your own damn thread! :D :flipoff2: :D

David, the core question inherent in my posts in this thread is this: why do we build what we build? I provided the core answer for myself (family 'wheeling for extended trips, no motorhome required) for *me*, and the Amigo is *my*solution, and not necessarily the one that works best for everyone (anyone? :D ) else.

You never really answered why you are building what you are building... certainly you don't have to but I am sorta curious... per your reports, what you have been wheeling has worked well for your purposes, so why go big?

Randii

Originally posted by Chris Geiger
You know that gets me thinking about the Camel Trophey runs. They run these rigs though some realy hard stuff but they are just stock rigs. I wonder how much fatster these runs could be done with a fully setup purpose built rig?

Chris, the question is, *purpose built* for WHAT? The problem with expeditions is that you face a wide variety of conditions that make modifications an exercise in compromise.

Last night I watched a video of a Venezuelan expedition that went from the northernmost point in South America to the southernmost point, from the Caribbean coast of Venezuela to Ushuaia in the Patagonia this year. The expedition consisted of 4 late-1990's Toyota Land Cruiser (80 series), lifted, locked and running 35 MTR's (Goodyear was one of their sponsors), but also running full-length roof racks, 130-liter auxiliary fuel tanks, fresh water tanks, and completely loaded with gear. The expedition lasted 45 days ONE WAY and included extremely tough conditions (it was the austral winter), from 90 degrees to -25 degrees, from the muddy stretch of the BR319 (800 kilometers of mud, with no refueling, no facilities, no repair shops - to give you an idea of how tough the stretch is, the Camel Trophy decided NOT to run it) to the rocky climbs of the Atacama desert in Chile and the Bolivian Altiplano, to sections of the Ruta 9 in Argentina that had 10+ feet of powder snow on them. All this in vehicles that must be able to go at least 100 kilometers an hour and *still* handle mud, rocks and snow. Sure, the mud is nothing like the bogs in Alabama,, the rocks would be considered pebbles to the Johnson Valley regulars, and the snow may be a walk in the park for Alaska natives, but when you through all these conditions together into one trip and upon one rig, it gets you thinking.

And I've seen a Camel Trophy Discovery up close, they're not really stock!

My interpretation of Randii's initial comment was that there seems to be a trend going on that has people building expensive, extreme buggies, not for competition or for extreme trails, but for looks. Even in areas of the East Coast that don't have much in the way of rocks you're seeing tube-chassis rigs running huge axles and mondo tires...That to me is stupid, but my attitude is and will always be, TO EACH HIS OWN.

Personally, spending 15+ years running expeditions in South America had a profound effect on the way I wheel. While I enjoy hard, technical wheeling, I developed a survival instinct in Venezuela that keeps me from enjoying radical lines and trails in my own vehicle. Above all, I haven't been able to break out of the idea of a compromise rig that does many things well but can't handle extreme anything, and I still prefer expedition-style wheeling.

Heck, that's why I enjoy this forum so much, I live vicariously through all you insane fawkers!:) :) :)

Originally posted by randii
You never really answered why you are building what you are building... certainly you don't have to but I am sorta curious... per your reports, what you have been wheeling has worked well for your purposes, so why go big?

Randii

Sorry Randii, I thought I was clear about that :p

I am building what I am building because I feel it fits my needs and wants... same thing I already said you are doing, and everyone else too :)

Can anyone every really give a better reason that that? Seriously, I know it sounds vague, but it always comes down to we build what we wanna build (within our monetary limits of course ;) )

I am building what I am building because I feel it fits my needs and wants... same thing I already said you are doing, and everyone else too :)
Well, that's a little vague, but I guess it covers just about everything... This BBS is all about talking, and explaining why's and where-fore's.

If I see a buddy coming out of a bar draped over Rosey O'Donnell's shoulder, I'm gonna slap him upside the head and ask him why -- bet on it. If he explains coherently that he's hoggin', and thinks he might have landed the bet-winning weight, I'll help carry him to her car, but if he's enough beers into the 12-pack to think he's going home with a 10, I'll help him re-work the calculation on his fingers. :p No judgement, just standing up for a brutha. :cool:

It's a similar thing when I see a buddy building a competition rig when he is planning only local trails... I'll ask (not demand) an explanation, outta curiosity....

Randii

I can be more specific if you really want :p

1. I need room for 3-4 people
2. I need room for tools/supplies for day trips only, room for campling supplies would be nice but not necessary.
3. I want a vehicle overbuilt enough to spend my time driving - not repairing.
4. I need a more "extreme" built vehicle to be able to keep up with the rest of my club, do the local trails, and hit the obstacles I want to hit.
5. I need a vehicle streetable enough for short trips to the trailhead from the trailer - anything better is an added bonus.
6. I enjoy building my vehicle(s) so upgrading is just something that is part of what I love to do :)


I think that should answer just about every question you had... anyone else care to lay it out like that? ;)

more simply put.

i need a rig that can go over the obstacle that your can't. :flipoff2:

Originally posted by camo
more simply put.

i need a rig that can go over the obstacle that your can't. :flipoff2:

oh... make that #7 then :p

i think camo nailed it.

I see where you're coming from randii..........

I think most buggies just kind of evolve. Losing the sheet metal just comes after the axle and engine swaps. You can still strap a backpack full of necessities to the cage and go for it.

Most the buggies I see are the same toyota, jeep, scout, bronco, whatever they where before they lost the sheetmetal. Nothing all that special about em. I've never seen a buggy up here built from scratch.

I'm still a sheet metal guy, I enjoy driving to the trail, I couldn't afford a tow rig, nor do I really care for one, I like to roll up the window and turn on the heat and I try to carry enough junk to take care of myself...........

But damn, I'd love to drive a buggy that I can flop on the side anytime, no broken windshield, no stuck door, no smashed fender and no worries.....Wheelin at its best!

Extreme rigs are built to be rolled. One thing you don't want in a roll is all your spare parts and your 130lbs dog flying around.

It all comes down to what your intent is.

Extreme rigs are built to be rolled. One thing you don't want in a roll is all your spare parts and your 130lbs dog flying around.
The gear is well-secured, but yeah, we do worry about aerial dogs. ;)

We tend to offload the pooch before attacking more entertaining lines.

Randii

rename this post "randii VS drm and make it ppv, pull down some $$$ 4 the site:p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p

Only if you're the ring grrrrrrl, Darren! :barf: :rasta: :barf:

GAWD, this post is still going:eek:

OK, randii, here's why I'm building what I'm building.

First off, I'm very limited in funding due to my college student budget.
So my rig is my DD. It serves light trail duty for now. When I finish it, the best it will see is the 'con. I need to be able to still have fun when I'm out on the local trails, yet have insane flex. I don't want a 454 or Dana 60's with 44" boggers. I like the way my sheetmetal used to look, and it's still not *too* bad.

I am like most other guys, where if I could have a tube-bodied buggy, I'd love it. Could just trailer it up to the hammers and flop it over a few times. But I am very happy with my current level of involovment.

Originally posted by Nobody
I see where you're coming from randii..........

I think most buggies just kind of evolve. Losing the sheet metal just comes after the axle and engine swaps.

You nailed it, at least for me, Nobody... My rig simply evolved into what it is today. It slowly lost sheetmetal till there was none left! :D
<img src="http://www.pirate4x4.com/lance/life_of_cruzah.jpg">

Now that's a cool series of pics. Hard to believe they are the same vehicle.

I like it the best in the picture with Bob driving. The front axle seems cooler for some reason. plus it looks bitchen in black and with tread on the tires.

Personally I'd like to see more people build extreme rigs. I am tired of seeing good trails get stacked under so someone in their midly built wheeler can force their way thru to say they have done it.

I second that.:mad3: Last time I ran sledgehammer it was so friken paved, I am suprise they didn't also stripe it.:mad:

For me, it's a performance thing. I want to be able to do any obstacle i come across, and not break stuff trying it. For me, that means Rockwells and big tires, and a cage. I think everyone starts off-roading, and is amazed at what their stock TJ can do. Then, a few mths go by, and they start bitng off more than they can chew, getting hung up and stuck, etc. So comes a lift kit...
and 33" BFG's...
Now they can go more places, but they eventually find the places they can't go, so here comes the RE 5.5" kit with spacers, and Dana 60's, and 38's, and they are happy again for a year or so, until they find some more obstacles they can't get over. So they tear the body off to fit 44's, and they go coil-over to get more tunability, and they put winches front and rear, and on and on.

Personally - i decided to skip some of the steps involved, and I think a lot of other people are just skipping those steps too. Like Brutus, just start with a sprint car chassis, and let your imagination take over.

I don't care about food and water, or a sleeping bag, all i need is rock...

Originally posted by DRM
Originally posted by randii
I am not holding that against you in any way, and I fully inderstand a "hot" topic title draws people in... I would likely do the same or something similar.

Speaking of answers, you have yet to address most of the questions I had for you... no matter, if you chose to ignore them that is your call ;)


DITTO!:roxy:

Originally posted by randii
answer why you are building what you are building... certainly you don't have to but I am sorta curious... per your reports, what you have been wheeling has worked well for your purposes, so why go big?

Randii [/B]


1st is I like being so very , very , kew!!!!! second is it just really pisses me off to no extent to wait and wait to go wheeling where I live and see some poor s.ob. hung up cant get out becuse he cant read the posted sign for most difficult , or he saw it and wanted to try it he knows that he shouldnt be there and I no it to!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11:rasta: :rasta: :rasta: :rasta: :rasta: