Well my stock master cylinder is not cutting it with the 38's and the rear El Dorado discs. This is a 2000 Tj if it makes any difference.

Anyone done a swap? Someone point me in the right direction a MC that may bolt up and give me some stopping power. Any ideas?

I think a corvette one did, something like that, I am checking at the moment.

A buddy of mine, 1TONJEEP coverted to discs in the rear and there may have been a possibility of requiring a MC upgrade and he had found out what would be compatible. He didn't need to upgrade the MC but I think he still has that info.

Of course he will probably read this and post anyways.

Originally posted by jeepclub
I think a corvette one did, something like that, I am checking at the moment.

A buddy of mine, 1TONJEEP coverted to discs in the rear and there may have been a possibility of requiring a MC upgrade and he had found out what would be compatible. He didn't need to upgrade the MC but I think he still has that info.

Of course he will probably read this and post anyways.

Thanks jeepclub, that info would be appreaciated!

I had a similar problem on my YJ.. only with 33's.

I upgraded pads, replaced calipers, bigger master cylinder, everything. got the brakes so the rears could lock up after the MC swap, but only sometimes. Otherwise breaking sucked.

Swapped in a D44 and a waggie 20, got bigger brakes out of the deal. Stops MUCH better now.

Lesson: You may need bigger brakes.

Originally posted by CHOKEvenom
Well my stock master cylinder is not cutting it with the 38's and the rear El Dorado discs. This is a 2000 Tj if it makes any difference.

Anyone done a swap? Someone point me in the right direction a MC that may bolt up and give me some stopping power. Any ideas?

Get a hold of Harold Off at Off Again Offroad in Farmington. I don't have his number right now but can get it tomorrow. He should have a solution for you.

Originally posted by TJoop


Get a hold of Harold Off at Off Again Offroad in Farmington. I don't have his number right now but can get it tomorrow. He should have a solution for you.

Thanks Todd, that rang a bell! I remember Harolds name coming up before on this issue.

Can't swear to any of it, but here's a list I've compiled:

Master Cylinders for Late Model Jeep Brake Boosters:
1988-89 LSC Lincoln(Mark), 4wd Disc Brake <--Front Disc/Rear Disc

1988 LINCOLN MARK VII 5.0L Fuel Injected V8 Vin:E
BRAKE MASTER CYLINDER
WAGNER F105806 [Brake Master Cylinder] New; w/Hydro-B.; 1-1/8" Bore *
WAGNER R105806 [Brake Master Cylinder] Reman.; w/Hydro-B.; 1-1/8" Bore *
BRAKE MASTER CYLINDER KIT
WAGNER F105807 [Brake Master Cylinder Kit] w/Hydro-B.; 1-1/8" Bore *
BRAKE, POWER BRAKE UNIT
WAGNER 529391 [Power Brake Booster] w/o Mstr. Cyl.; w/Hydro-B *


1988 LINCOLN CONTINENTAL 3.8L Fuel Injected V6 Vin:4
BRAKE MASTER CYLINDER
WAGNER F105806 [Brake Master Cylinder] New; w/Hydro-B.; 1-1/8" Bore *
WAGNER R105806 [Brake Master Cylinder] Reman.; w/Hydro-B.; 1-1/8" Bore *
BRAKE MASTER CYLINDER KIT
WAGNER F105807 [Brake Master Cylinder Kit] w/Hydro-B.; 1-1/8" Bore *
BRAKE, POWER BRAKE UNIT
WAGNER 529391 [Power Brake Booster] w/o Mstr. Cyl.; w/Hydro-B *


1988 LINCOLN TOWN CAR 5.0L Fuel Injected V8 Vin:F
BRAKE MASTER CYLINDER
GUARDIAN 93-78676 [Brake Master Cylinder] New; w/Vac. Boost; 1" Bore *
93-78676 [Brake Master Cylinder] New; w/Vac. Boost; 1" Bore *
WAGNER F78676 [Brake Master Cylinder] New; w/Vac. Boost; 1" Bore *
WAGNER R78676 [Brake Master Cylinder] Reman.; w/Vac. Boost; 1" Bore *
BRAKE MASTER CYLINDER KIT
WAGNER F98909 [Brake Master Cylinder Kit] w/Vac. Boost; 1" Bore *
BRAKE, POWER BRAKE UNIT
WAGNER 504200 [Power Brake Booster] w/Mstr. Cyl. *
WAGNER 5474200 [Power Brake Booster] w/o Mstr. Cyl. *


1985 Ford E-350 <--Front Disc/Rear Drum
1985 FORD ECONOLINE E350 1 TON 5.8L 4 Barrel V8 Vin:H
BRAKE MASTER CYLINDER
GUARDIAN 93-110919 [Brake Master Cylinder] New; w/Vac. Boost; 1-1/8" Bore *
93-110919 [Brake Master Cylinder] New; w/Vac. Boost; 1-1/8" Bore *
WAGNER F110919 [Brake Master Cylinder] New; w/Vac. Boost; 1-1/8" Bore *
WAGNER R110919 [Brake Master Cylinder] Reman.; w/Vac. Boost; 1-1/8" Bore *
BRAKE MASTER CYLINDER KIT
WAGNER F110920 [Brake Master Cylinder Kit] w/Vac. Boost; 1-1/8" Bore *
BRAKE, POWER BRAKE UNIT
WAGNER 509336 [Power Brake Booster] w/Mstr. Cyl. *
WAGNER 5473357 [Power Brake Booster] w/o Mstr. Cyl. *



Hydroboost Brake Booster:
Turbo Charged Grand Nationals
85 Regal Stationwagon
A1 Cardone #52-7171

Hydroboost Master Cylinder:
1979 Firebird 4wd Disc Brake

1979 PONTIAC FIREBIRD 400CI 4 Barrel V8 Vin:Z
BRAKE MASTER CYLINDER
GUARDIAN 93-101254 [Brake Master Cylinder] New; 1-1/8" Bore; w/Vac. Boost *
93-101254 [Brake Master Cylinder] New; 1-1/8" Bore; w/Vac. Boost *
WAGNER F101255 [Brake Master Cylinder] New; 1" Bore; w/Man. Brake *
WAGNER R101255 [Brake Master Cylinder] Reman.; 1" Bore; w/Man. Brake *
WAGNER F101254 [Brake Master Cylinder] New; 1-1/8" Bore; w/Vac. Boost *
WAGNER R101254 [Brake Master Cylinder] Reman.; 1-1/8" Bore; w/Vac. Boost *
WAGNER F104513 [Brake Master Cylinder] New; 1-1/8" Bore; w/Hydro-B. or w/Vac. Boost; w/Rr. Disc Brake *
WAGNER R104513 [Brake Master Cylinder] Reman.; 1-1/8" Bore; w/Hydro-B. or w/Vac. Boost; w/Rr. Disc Brake *
BRAKE MASTER CYLINDER KIT
WAGNER F97613 [Brake Master Cylinder Kit] 1-1/8" Bore; w/Vac. Boost *
WAGNER F104459 [Brake Master Cylinder Kit] 1-1/8" Bore; w/Hydro-B. or w/Vac. Boost; w/Rr. Disc Brake *
BRAKE, POWER BRAKE UNIT
WAGNER 501119 [Power Brake Booster] w/Mstr. Cyl.; w/Rr. Drum Brake *
WAGNER 509268 [Power Brake Booster] w/Mstr. Cyl.; w/Rr. Disc Brake *
WAGNER 5471119 [Power Brake Booster] w/o Mstr. Cyl.; w/Rr. Drum Brake *

1995 JEEP GRAND CHEROKEE 5.2L Fuel Injected V8 Vin:Y
BRAKE MASTER CYLINDER
WAGNER F131464 [Brake Master Cylinder] New; w/Vac. Boost; 1" Bore *
WAGNER R131937 [Brake Master Cylinder] Reman.; w/Vac. Boost; 1" Bore *
BRAKE MASTER CYLINDER KIT
WAGNER F122239 [Brake Master Cylinder Kit] w/Vac. Boost; 15/16" Bore; Exc. ABS *
BRAKE, POWER BRAKE UNIT
WAGNER 5473151 [Power Brake Booster] w/o Mstr. Cyl. *


1998 JEEP CHEROKEE 4x4 4.0L Fuel Injected L6 Vin:S
BRAKE MASTER CYLINDER
WAGNER F131464 [Brake Master Cylinder] New; w/Vac. Boost; 1" Bore *
WAGNER R131937 [Brake Master Cylinder] Reman.; w/Vac. Boost *
BRAKE MASTER CYLINDER KIT
No Parts Found
BRAKE, POWER BRAKE UNIT
WAGNER 5473154 [Power Brake Booster] w/o Master Cylinder *

1998 JEEP GRAND CHEROKEE 4x4 5.9L Fuel Injected V8 Vin:Z
BRAKE MASTER CYLINDER
WAGNER F131464 [Brake Master Cylinder] New; w/Vac. Boost; 1" Bore *
WAGNER R131937 [Brake Master Cylinder] Reman.; w/Vacuum Boost *
BRAKE MASTER CYLINDER KIT
No Parts Found
BRAKE, POWER BRAKE UNIT
WAGNER 5473151 [Power Brake Booster] w/o Master Cylinder *

BillaVista,

I wrote most of your info...someone added the specs on the different master cylinders....that was a few years ago but it still is on my webpage... I can offer some advice...

1) The Lincoln Master cylinder(disc/disc)won't bolt up to the TJ brake booster, so scratch that.

2) Don't use a Grand Cherokee master cylinder. First off you won't gain any power and second the resoviors have lines coming out to goto the ABS pump, not worh the effort.

3) Give this a try, remove the combination valve from your system, it is the bronze colored thing mounted underneath your master cylinder....just use an adjustable proportioning valve, I think you'll like the difference :P

CJ

I'm in the same boat (somewhat). My problem is the booster itself. It's shot. What would be a good option for me to upgrade. I just got an 8.8 w/discs and want to be able to stop better than I can now. (93 YJ) I know I might have to upgrade the Master (might hold off on this and try the adjustable prop. valve first) but I know my booster is shot (won;t hold vacuum). Are there any direct bolt up dual diaphram options or should I just get an OEM one.

Sorry to intrude (being a newbie and all :flipoff2: ) but I've done alot of searches and not that much has come up and since we were on the subject.......



Mugsy

All I did was remove the proportioning valve spring thing.
I run Chevy 1 ton fronts brakes, and Caddy rears. It requires a lot of pedal travel but the breaks work fine.

TSM told me to use a Corvette MC (If I wanted to stay power brakes)and that would work better, but I am happy with it for now.

TSM also told me that it was better to use manaul un powered brakes on off-road rigs :confused:

Phil

I'm pretty sure that MP Brakes offers a "super" power booster for TJ's, but I think it was pretty expensive.


http://www.mpbrakes.com/JEEPBOOSTERS.HTM



:)
Fred

1TONTJ- I pulled the o- ring out of the stock propor. valve, I never heard about pulling the spring out? Pulling the O- ring helped to get more to the rear, but I still have to pump the brakes once to keep it from going to the floor and the e- brake light from coming on. I threw a new MC on to make sure it was not bad. I have also used a power bleeder, so there is no air.

CJ Lagos- You still think a adjustable propor. valve will do it? How much for your fron 60??:D

Fred- Thanks, it looks like that may be the route I am gonna go... $465.00:mad: Maybe???

That super booster for the HUGE$$$$ will do NOTHING to fix your problem. It will just make it easier to push the pedal to the floor where the light goes on :flipoff2:

You said you have to pump it once to get pedal pressure? If so, then you have air in the system. If there was no air, then pumping it would make no difference.

HTH,

Phil

Originally posted by 1TONTJ

TSM told me to use a Corvette MC (If I wanted to stay power brakes)and that would work better, but I am happy with it for now.

:

Phil


I use the Corvette Master as well But I have Hydro boost!

mine stops great!

Adam ,

Choke let me now if you wanna go this route I have part #'s

Adam,

Adam,

Can you post the PNs and applications for your hydroboost setup?

I had similar problems - too much pedal travel - helped the problem by installing residual pressure valve in the rear brake line, could also use one in the front line too. These prevent fluid from returning to the master cylinder and the caliper pistons from retracting too far from the pad. The two or three pound valves should do the trick. You may still have quite a bit of pedal travel but it should prevent the pedal from going to the floor and having to pump it. At least it did for me. You can get the valves from Summit or most any good brake shop may be able to get them for you.

I'm telling you guys :P....take the stock combination valve out of the system. It isn't just a proportioning valve, it reduces brake power because of the somewhat small Jeep calipers so you can't lock your stuff up.

I'll tell you this....with 35" SXs I didn't stop that great, but pulled that stock combination valve out and can stop my 39.5 boggers better than the 35's with the same calipers. Put an adjustable valve in there so you can keep the rear from locking up so easy.

Hey, $4500 for my front 60, come and get it!

CJ

Hmmmmm... $4500.

o.k. I will try the adjustable proportioning valve. Man I hope that does the trick, these breaks suck. Did you get it from Wilwood?

Thanks guys

Adam, throw those part #'s up, just in case...:)

CJ,

I always wondered who put that together...I copied it a loooong time ago :)

I then just went to carparts.com and looked up the apps / part numbers.

Thanks for the update.

My upgrade plans include Late Model Xj dual diaphragm booster, Ford Land yacht MC, Wilwood adj. prop valve, no combi valve.

Originally posted by CHOKEvenom


Thanks Todd, that rang a bell! I remember Harolds name coming up before on this issue.

Off Again 505-325-5761

Originally posted by TJoop


Off Again 505-325-5761

Thanks!!!!

Hey Choke,

The key with the ajustable proportioning valve is to remove the stock one...I got a wilwood from jegs. Let me know when you do it, i'm interested to see if you have the same results as mine...

I can just about lock up my 39.5's.

CJ

Originally posted by CJ Lagos
Hey Choke,

The key with the ajustable proportioning valve is to remove the stock one...I got a wilwood from jegs. Let me know when you do it, i'm interested to see if you have the same results as mine...

I can just about lock up my 39.5's.

CJ

Yep, I'll let you know... Thanks!

Hey CJ,
Will this same trick work on the ZJ?
Mine's '95 (disc/disc).

Originally posted by Turtleack
I had similar problems - too much pedal travel - helped the problem by installing residual pressure valve in the rear brake line, could also use one in the front line too. These prevent fluid from returning to the master cylinder and the caliper pistons from retracting too far from the pad. The two or three pound valves should do the trick. You may still have quite a bit of pedal travel but it should prevent the pedal from going to the floor and having to pump it. At least it did for me. You can get the valves from Summit or most any good brake shop may be able to get them for you.
\

HEY BUNGHOLE THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED.......CHEAP AND WILL PROBLY DO THE TRICK..EASY TO INSTALL TOO....

THE PROP VALVE WILL HELP YOU OUT TOO......

A NEW BOOSTER WILL NOT HELP ...FORGET ABOUT IT AND GIVE ME THE EXTRA $$$$.......IT WILL JUST MAKE THE BRAKES EASY TO PUSH WHEN YOU HAVE TO PUMP THEM......

WELL NOW THAT I THINK ABOUT IT WHY DONT YOU JUST SELL YOUR HEEP AND GET A VW

Originally posted by 71RCKCRZR

\

HEY BUNGHOLE THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED.......CHEAP AND WILL PROBLY DO THE TRICK..EASY TO INSTALL TOO....

THE PROP VALVE WILL HELP YOU OUT TOO......

A NEW BOOSTER WILL NOT HELP ...FORGET ABOUT IT AND GIVE ME THE EXTRA $$$$.......IT WILL JUST MAKE THE BRAKES EASY TO PUSH WHEN YOU HAVE TO PUMP THEM......

WELL NOW THAT I THINK ABOUT IT WHY DONT YOU JUST SELL YOUR HEEP AND GET A VW

Hey Ass- Fawker,

Get that Jeep of yours running for Hollister:D :p :rainbow:

Now go buy me a residual valve thingy!

Chris,

It should work for a ZJ too, it's basically the same valve...give it a shot. As far as I know, the only real difference between the components is the ZJ master cylinder resovior has the lines running to abs pump and the brake lines goto the abs pump so it can take over, but it doesn't do anything until the sensors to tell it to.

Choke,
I don't think you need residual valves, they won't change anything. They're intended to be used when the calipers are mounted above the master cylinder, this is so fluid doesn't flow back.

CJ

Chokevenom--If you have to pump your pedal, you have air in your system......period, I don't care if you used a power bleeder, if you have a high spot in your system, you can't remove all the air.

Did you install your air bleeders at the tops of your calipers? They are interchangable left to right, this is a common mistake.

The O-ring removal will help if you have rear discs, I can lock up all my Q78's, I have an 8.8 rear conversion.

But don't go strictly on who can lock up and who can't, at least til you know what tires they have and the weight of thier vehicle, cuz guy's with 35" STREET tires (MT/R's, BFG M/T's, etc) CAN'T lock up with the same setup, they get much more traction on road (more rubber on the road).

Originally posted by Hellbender
Chokevenom--If you have to pump your pedal, you have air in your system......period, I don't care if you used a power bleeder, if you have a high spot in your system, you can't remove all the air.

Did you install your air bleeders at the tops of your calipers? They are interchangable left to right, this is a common mistake.

The O-ring removal will help if you have rear discs, I can lock up all my Q78's, I have an 8.8 rear conversion.

But don't go strictly on who can lock up and who can't, at least til you know what tires they have and the weight of thier vehicle, cuz guy's with 35" STREET tires (MT/R's, BFG M/T's, etc) CAN'T lock up with the same setup, they get much more traction on road (more rubber on the road).

I am going to throw a wilwood proportioning valve in and bleed the hell out of the brakes. I do have the bleeders at the top of the calipers. When we power bleed them, I did see some air bubbles and then it was all fresh fluid from the bleeder after that. I will give it another go... Thanks.:)

You have the part # for that Wilwood valve? I'm gonna give it a shot too. As piss poor as my braking is, it's only getting worse with all the weight I just added to the ZJ.

Originally posted by cbassett
You have the part # for that Wilwood valve? I'm gonna give it a shot too. As piss poor as my braking is, it's only getting worse with all the weight I just added to the ZJ.

Chris,

I don't have the part #, just go to JEG's or Summit. Wilwood only makes one dial prop. valve.

That is where I am going to order mine from.

Originally posted by CHOKEvenom


Chris,

I don't have the part #, just go to JEG's or Summit. Wilwood only makes one dial prop. valve.

That is where I am going to order mine from.


Choke where are you located I have 2 Willwood Pro valves

I am in the Bay area All the time !!

Adam,

Originally posted by Eric
Adam,

Can you post the PNs and applications for your hydroboost setup?

when I get Home I will!!

I am on the road Right Now!

Adam

Originally posted by Adam Ant



Choke where are you located I have 2 Willwood Pro valves

I am in the Bay area All the time !!

Adam,

Adam,
Since Choke only needs one valve, how's about hooking us both up? :D
I'm in Fremont area.
Chris

Originally posted by Adam Ant


when I get Home I will!!

I am on the road Right Now!

Adam

Adam,

I am in Santa Clara and work in Menlo Park... Let me know when and where you will be. Thanks

Kevin

Originally posted by CHOKEvenom


Adam,

I am in Santa Clara and work in Menlo Park... Let me know when and where you will be. Thanks

Kevin

how about Monday afternoon Choke

I will be in fremont !

Call me 916-203-2326 I will have the Pro valve on me
how about 20 bucks and it is your's !


Adam,