ok, so most of you remember that I can't find 5" rear springs anymore. Well I got the truck level again with spacers.

However, I am getting ready to hit the trail for another trek type trip, and I can't afford to loose much rear height, especially sense I can't handle much more "lift" in the front created by rear sag. My front 1350 can't handle much more lift. ( I still get vibes at 5" - mostly t case shaft though)

What cheap easy thoughts for stiffing up the rear on compression? Install them rubber spacer thingies from vatozone on the compressed part of the spring?


j

Obviously spacers are the easiest, but you've already done that. The next easiest option would be to make the shocks firmer, but that will most likely only save you from bottoming out.

I guess basically what I'm saying is more spacers, but I wouldn't go over 2".:confused:

Edit: I take it your going to EJS?

http://www.airliftcompany.com/outbackspecial.htm

Originally posted by lwg
Obviously spacers are the easiest, but you've already done that. The next easiest option would be to make the shocks firmer, but that will most likely only save you from bottoming out.

I guess basically what I'm saying is more spacers, but I wouldn't go over 2".:confused:

Edit: I take it your going to EJS?

well, I am at 3" of space in the rear!

I don't like it either, but at least the springs I have in the rear are progessive, and offer lots 3" of expansion besides the spring stretch.

I am not talking about Height spacers, I am talking about "stiffeners" little rubber/eurathane blocks that fit IN the coils.

As for EJS, no. looking to play in the for corners and hole in the rock. I can't find anyone to do Hole in the rock, so I might end up doing the glen canyon area if I have to go solo...

John,
I think a few folks from the Solihull Society are planning on running Hole in the Rock in a few weeks for our Moab trip. I can't remember the dates but they are on the website. I'm considering running it then.

I was looking under the rear last night after dropping in some 3" springs and was eyeballing the strut.

IMO this is the best of all worlds. There's no bullsh!t sitting inside the springs to complicate them, and no hooptiness with shock setups. I know the boge's are universally despised, but I'm thinking seriously about making an adapter to sit between the top mount to push it back down so its still effective.

I know some have claimed that it stiffens the rear articulation but if the BOGE were reset to stock geometry I don't believe there would be any effect.

Think about all the crappy "load helper" add-ons, and to me the $400 or so for a new BOGE and a small adapter to correct the geometry isn't looking too bad.

They didn't equip these things with 150lb springs and struts for some 15 or more years if they didn't work. The strut is designed to support damn near a 1/2 ton over the rear axle. I still maintain that its a good design, has the least amount of hassle with the rest of the suspension, and can be corrected easily enough with the stock parts with a small adapter up on top.


flame suit on :eek:

The stock boge unit is out of its operational range past 2" of lift. Is this what the adapter would be for?

j

yes - as long as the mounting point of the top is in its stock geometry it should still work fine. the only time the whole axle is going to drop down on both sides is if you're jumping it like Larry :flipoff2: Otherwise your side to side articulation should be unaffected - It seems to me that the engineers really thought this problem through before with how to both support a load and still allow good articulation. The strut is mounted right at the center link where things down't move around much, and puts all the load directly inline with that big-arse crossmember and the center of the axle.

Where the top of the strut mounts up to the big round crossmember is where I would locate the adapter. You would need to fab something to mount on the tube and then extend down to the top mounting point of the strut. The length of the adapter is going to be commensurate with your lift, but I'm going to try and get a good measurement on the stock angle of the strut and vertical distance between the mounts on a different rangie to keep both.

There shouldn't be that much in the way of lateral force on the top mount, otherwise you would need to triangulate it down to the strut side mount. You might look into triangulating it anyhow if you're going to use strap steel - kind of an upside down pyramid so-to-speak. A friend of mine is a wizard with CNC and aluminum so I may try to convince him to help me go this route for the bling factor ;)

-packrat

450 lbs of pop up camper, 300 lbs of gear. 2" wide scout springs, 700 miles of baja road. Firestone air bags made it work well!

hey - no arguments that the airbags work for that type of application. But are you going to follow J through Holy Cross without damaging them? A couple guys up here have tried the firestones on some old early broncos and they sucked ass - the mechanism to fill the bags was finicky and they really limit uptravel. if you air them down too much then they get pinched between the coils when they stuff. leave them aired up and back to no uptravel.

He could put on some "helper" air shocks that can be pumped up and down, but the extra bracketing and hassles with making them work
my only point was that with the airbags you can't have your cake and eat it to - that's what the strut was designed to do right from the factory

(zipping back up) :flipoff2:

Originally posted by SeaRover
hey - no arguments that the airbags work for that type of application. But are you going to follow J through Holy Cross without damaging them? A couple guys up here have tried the firestones on some old early broncos and they sucked ass - the mechanism to fill the bags was finicky and they really limit uptravel. if you air them down too much then they get pinched between the coils when they stuff. leave them aired up and back to no uptravel.

He could put on some "helper" air shocks that can be pumped up and down, but the extra bracketing and hassles with making them work
my only point was that with the airbags you can't have your cake and eat it to - that's what the strut was designed to do right from the factory

(zipping back up) :flipoff2:

What about a single bag on top of the A arm?

I think matt from rockware did that on his first jeep with rover axles.

I am going to see what the eurathane thingies do. I only need an inch...

j

Originally posted by redrangie
I only need an inch...

j

Don't we all.:flipoff2:

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I think the Boge idea has some merit to it. Hopefully someone tries this and reports back with some results. I am planning on building up a much milder rangie in the next year or two and will probably encounter this problem then. Good luck!

What about a single bag on top of the A arm?



that's a pretty good idea, actually I don't think the perches for the bag would be that hard to fab up, and you could retain some ability to pump it up and down. Might just plumb a schraeder valve and a hose into the loadspace in the back somewhere instead of worrying about a pump. Have it sit close to the OBA and forget about the electrics and the rest. hmmm . . . I like it! Glad this came up, actually


a fella from south africa had reported once on a rangie list that they use coil springs in place of the boge, but it will still sag a little. not sure what they were running for coils on the corners with that setup.

Originally posted by SeaRover


that's a pretty good idea, actually I don't think the perches for the bag would be that hard to fab up, and you could retain some ability to pump it up and down. Might just plumb a schraeder valve and a hose into the loadspace in the back somewhere instead of worrying about a pump. Have it sit close to the OBA and forget about the electrics and the rest. hmmm . . . I like it! Glad this came up, actually


a fella from south africa had reported once on a rangie list that they use coil springs in place of the boge, but it will still sag a little. not sure what they were running for coils on the corners with that setup.

well...don't that basicly just make it the same as a disco or air-sprung rangie? :D they just he teh a-frame with if i rcall a solid link where teh boge usit goes...why bothere with a spring here? more harm than good methinks! you need something more solid as that helps keep teh axle centered doesn't it? :confused:
I remember a thread on the coiler-list about that years ago...the thing to do with a bad boge unit was to leave it there as a link, and run disco rear springs...hmmm! not the answer I think people hee are looking for?? but is what we did on the air-sprung LWB for my friend as he was too frugal to buy OME springs and I got the disco springs for free..

I am a little confused as what the innitial problem is????

Paul (still amazed at how you can load down a rangie with 500#'s
watch the rear sagg than drive down a bumpy trail for a minute and see it raise back up! at least with a good Boge unit.....)

at the frame the boge unit is mounted separately than the A arm. there is a beefy mount that appears to be cast that bolts to the 3rd link. The strut is mounted to this cast part on the bottom, and then runs up and mounts directly to the big tube crossmember between the frame.

AFAIK the discos don't have the cast bracket on the top of the 3link, nor the mount on the tube for the boge.

the airspring would mount in the same place as the boge. the boge I still think is a great piece of engineering, but its also costs $400 for a new one.
I also have a small fear of wearing it out - but OTOH i just dropped in 300lb/in springs.

a firestone air bag could be had for a lot less, and pumped up to suit the load. because of the way it would be mounted it would have alot of protection from the terrain, and won't complicate the coils on the corners. the more I think of it the more i like the idea.

By pushing between the frame and the top center link (with whatever it is - strut, airbag, hydraulic? (ha!) you're not screwing up the corner's ability to articulate over the terrain. it doesn't have much to do with the A-arm 3-link config, except where it mounts to the axle.


make any more sense?

Originally posted by SeaRover
at the frame the boge unit is mounted separately than the A arm. there is a beefy mount that appears to be cast that bolts to the 3rd link. The strut is mounted to this cast part on the bottom, and then runs up and mounts directly to the big tube crossmember between the frame.

AFAIK the discos don't have the cast bracket on the top of the 3link, nor the mount on the tube for the boge.

the airspring would mount in the same place as the boge. the boge I still think is a great piece of engineering, but its also costs $400 for a new one.
I also have a small fear of wearing it out - but OTOH i just dropped in 300lb/in springs.

a firestone air bag could be had for a lot less, and pumped up to suit the load. because of the way it would be mounted it would have alot of protection from the terrain, and won't complicate the coils on the corners. the more I think of it the more i like the idea.

By pushing between the frame and the top center link (with whatever it is - strut, airbag, hydraulic? (ha!) you're not screwing up the corner's ability to articulate over the terrain. it doesn't have much to do with the A-arm 3-link config, except where it mounts to the axle.


make any more sense?

yeah big time now...I forgot how things are set up in there!
it's been seven years since I owned a coiler rangie! ..so memory is sooo fuzzy there...gotta crawl under the disco and LWB tonight to see what IS there....it seams most odf my playing has been with series and forget what is under teh disco these days...
I like teh firestone bags, and have thoughts of even using them on one fo teh series rigs for off-camber trails...not figured out exactly what to st up yet...

Paul

Originally posted by androbus


well...don't that basicly just make it the same as a disco or air-sprung rangie? :D they just he teh a-frame with if i rcall a solid link where teh boge usit goes...why bothere with a spring here? more harm than good methinks! you need something more solid as that helps keep teh axle centered doesn't it? :confused:

Hooked on Phonics worked for me:flipoff2:

Originally posted by SeaRover
the airspring would mount in the same place as the boge. the boge I still think is a great piece of engineering, but its also costs $400 for a new one.
I also have a small fear of wearing it out - but OTOH i just dropped in 300lb/in springs.

a firestone air bag could be had for a lot less, and pumped up to suit the load. because of the way it would be mounted it would have alot of protection from the terrain, and won't complicate the coils on the corners. the more I think of it the more i like the idea.



I would think the Boge unit could be had used for much less than $400.

Regarding Airbags, how well would these work in off-road situations? This is quite different than the airbags they run on the crawlers as they aren't run in parallel with springs.

I have seen over here where people have replaced a worn out Boge unit with a car coil spring. Cheaper and increases carrying capacity (and the coil can allow for more lift than tha boge). A holden (isuzu) gemini (small 4dr sedan) coil spring fits well, but there are probably plenty of small cars over in the US with similar sized springs.

With a leveling unit/ air bag set-up in the middle and soft coil springs and a heavy load I would worry about a very tippy and lots of rear sway. The stiff center would make it want to pivot the weight from side to side. Idealy, for load carrying you would want the support on the corners. If the load leveler is used in the stock A-arm location you would probably need some stiffer shocks or springs at the corners.