curiosity - gun owners-

[onetoncv]

Does anyone carry a gun on there hip wheeling? I just got a 45 repro long colt 1875 - And want to get a holster and carry it out on the trail - Does anyone ever see this going on? I hear i'm all good just curious- You know with a name like Jesse jaynes you know-

[ecrist]

I never wheel WITHOUT a pistol....of course, I live in Arizona and you can legally carry in plain site without a permit.

don't know about Kalifornia law.

[Dieselmh]

You're a pussy for having to carry a gun to feel safe. Any real man knows that you don't need a gun to protect yourself. Grow up! :rolleyes:


[colr=black]You know somebody was going to say it eventually, so I decided to get it out of the way! :IgotYouGoodFukker: [/color]

[Just Some Asshole]

Originally posted by Dieselmh
You're a pussy for having to carry a gun to feel safe. Any real man knows that you don't need a gun to protect yourself. Grow up! :rolleyes:


You know somebody was going to say it eventually, so I decided to get it out of the way! :IgotYouGoodFukker:

C'mere and let me shoot you.:flipoff2:

[onetoncv]

thanks for the input -Jess

[Malltero]

I think that was a pretty narrow minded response. EDIT: BAH, FAWKING BLACK TEXT. LOL :shaking: :laughing:

If you are wheeling by yourself who knows who or what you are going to come across.

I don't think you would ever need one on the trail, but when you are alone it wouldn't hurt to have something to fall back on.

The only thing I would consider is if it is going to make other people you are wheeling with uncomfortable.

[Dieselmh]

Originally posted by onetoncv
thanks for the input -Jess

That almost seems like a remark someone would make before leaving. I know you're not leaving already. You should get lots of feedback here. Oh yeah, beware the Black Text! :D

[onetoncv]

I will carry it in case i run into an unexpected creature snake -you know- Its not for personal protection for god sakes- I'm not in the mood to shoot someone shiatt- And i'm not a gun fanatic either- But i do like the old west orah - So you grow up hehe- Got my My tykondo for personal protection- Jess:D

[Overbear]

I carry my 1903 in a sholder rig when im wheeling. Its out of my way, I can keep my flannel on so no one freaks.

[Dieselmh]

Originally posted by onetoncv
I will carry it in case i run into an unexpected creature snake -you know- Its not for personal protection for god sakes- I'm not in the mood to shoot someone shiatt- And i'm not a gun fanatic either- But i do like the old west orah - So you grow up hehe- Jess

I was just busting your balls. I'll edit my original to help ya'll out. Check it again. :D

[onetoncv]

:D - thanks I needed A good ball busting -every so often- Hehe Jesse Jaynes Not James :D

[Rastamon]

Carry on, Gunslingers!!

i always carry one... concealled permits are easy to get if you are a registered process server.

[VT_Toy]

Originally posted by Rastamon
Carry on, Gunslingers!!

i always carry one... concealled permits are easy to get if you are a registered process server.

And you're voting for Kerry?!?!? :shaking:

[Sully]

Originally posted by onetoncv
Does anyone carry a gun on there hip wheeling? I just got a 45 repro long colt 1875 - And want to get a holster and carry it out on the trail - Does anyone ever see this going on? I hear i'm all good just curious- You know with a name like Jesse jaynes you know-

I usually wear on my hip, but often will take it off and stash it in the center console while wheeling. A good shoulder-rig is the best way to carry if you are going to be in a vehicle-seat for long periods of time.

[TEX]

Even if I owned a handgun, I wouldn't carry one. Mainly, I just don't like carrying anything I don't have to. I might stash one in the rig along with the cell phone & all the other schit I don't like in my pockets :D

TEX

[Schly]

My BIL carries one in a waist pack made for a pistol when we're on the trail. Pretty much looks like a fanny pack unless you're really paying attention and notice that it's in the general shape of a gun.

[Damage, Inc.]

Packing and displaying a pistol can be good and bad. It shows the world you're ready for action...problem is, the animals you want to know this really don't give a shit you've got a SW44 at your side. I pretty much always carry and seldom, if ever, is it seen by the public.

[SilverZuk]

Around here that is pretty common. The majority of folks you see don’t carry in plain site, but I would say 1 out of 10 you will see with a pistol in the open. I would estimate over half are carrying. I seriously doubt I would ever have use it on the trail, or anywhere else, but it’s like insurance – you better have it if you ever need it.

I have shot game animals in season that I spotted while driving, and dumped 5 rounds out of 9mm at a coyote in the woods. During hunting seasons I usually carry a 22 LR revolver for small game.

[SilverZuk]

My opinions on carrying because of snakes and such:
Shooting at a snake is likely more dangerous to the public than the snake itself. If you must kill it, use a stick, shovel, rock, etc. Don’t be such a pussy to “have to carry” because of snakes.

Bears and Mountain Lions – You will likely never see the Mountain Lion that attacks you in time to pull, point, and shoot a pistol.
A bear will likely give you plenty of time.
Neither of these species is a risk in our area, although where I lived and still wheel is bear country. I have had them climb in the back of a bronco while to co-workers were sitting in it.
Generally, most any animal will not attack or fight if you give it space.

If you are carrying a firearm for defense, you need to keep your mind, and shooting skills sharp. You also need to realize the consequences if you ever do shoot someone. Even if it is legal, you just killed/maimed someone’s daddy/son/brother etc.

[tsm1mt]

I don't own a handgun yet, but my friends seem to like their "fanny packs" when on the trail.

Some of the wives and children will often get out and hike while the menfolk are busy comparing sizes and getting stuck.

The ladies will usually pack a handgun in the even of a snake, typically, though I guess they could fire a few warning shots to let us know there's a bear on the rampage so we can at least be prepared when they come for us. :D

The long guns are usually tucked above the sunvisors/cage.. and there's usually at least one full auto along, mostly for fun, but it'll make a decent chainsaw if the need arises. :D

[SilverZuk]

Originally posted by tsm1mt
and there's usually at least one full auto along, mostly for fun, but it'll make a decent chainsaw if the need arises. :D

I guess you wheel with the Kehoe's?

When is Chevy and Shane getting out?

[TexasBlake]

I may start carrying one at one of the places we wheel. There's a bunch of homless people setting up camp there and homeless people can be crazy. Last weekend we had one get all pissed off and started yelling and cussing because we woke him up when we drove by. Most homless people are crazy, and they would loose nothing if they killed someone. The problem is on the trail you couldnt' get away from him fast enough, so you'd have to beat the shit out of him or kill him to make him stop. Just a month or two ago one homless killed another homless in the same spot.

[Weasel]

I just got my Sig P229 and love it. I will be carrying it with 75% of the time, why just cause I like it. No reason. Yeah it could be used on snakes but sticks work just as well and it will be fine for bears but When I'm wheeling I can just jump in my rig and be just as safe.

Basicly I lvoe shooting it and wheeling so why not bring it. I think the best setup for wearing it would be a thigh mounted tactical holster, which is what I going to get.

[HighToy]

You shoot an adult bear with anything less than a bazooka you're just going to piss it off.:D

[Weasel]

True but 50 rounds of FMJ have to do something, is all else make me feel a bit better as I'm mauled. :flipoff2:

[NJfourwheeler]

Not sure who you need to blow to get a permit in NJ but it's near impossible. That doesn't mean I don't take precautions on the trail or in Camden. :rolleyes:

http://www.kc2sho.com/images/me/me7.jpg

[SilverZuk]

Originally posted by HighToy
You shoot an adult bear with anything less than a bazooka you're just going to piss it off.:D

I guess I'll tell all the guys I know that hunt bears that.:rolleyes:

A well placed shot from a 22 will drop them flat. A well placed shot from any magnum caliber handgun will stop a bear in the lower 48.

The physiology of a black bear is very similar to a human.

[tsm1mt]

Originally posted by SilverZuk


I guess I'll tell all the guys I know that hunt bears that.:rolleyes:

A well placed shot from a 22 will drop them flat. A well placed shot from any magnum caliber handgun will stop a bear in the lower 48.

The physiology of a black bear is very similar to a human.

I looked into some bear-stopping handguns a while back, not too much in earnest.

Mostly because I *can't* just climb into my rig.. ya think a soft-top is going to stop a bear? :D

I remember driving a trail a few years back and saw a nice little black cub on the side of the road.. "Aw, how... hey, where's his momma??!!".. sure 'nuff, on the OTHER side of the road, with me in between.

Move along, nothing to see here..

Anyhow, I was advised against a .45ACP for bear.. something like a .40 Sig was a better choice, IIRC. The 45 was too slow and too big - wouldn't penetrate. The 9mm wasn't enough umph.. .40 Sig seemed to be a good compromise that would do the job.

I don't want to carry a Desert Eagle "just in case".. and if I'm gonna plunk down coin for a handgun, I'm sure as hell going to carry it (otherwise, what is it? A fancy plinking gun?).. and I don't see me carrying a hand-cannon everywhere.

[Weasel]

I belive he was talking about slightly bigger Grizzley bears. They don't get stopped from a charge very eaisly. Although I'm not saying it hasn't or can't be done, but for example they had a old grizz die awhile back that had quite a few different large cliaber bullets stuck in it's skull.

I could kick a black bears ass with my hands.:flipoff2:

[1RUSTYRIG]

I carry my 9mm holstered when on the trail. Here is the ultimate in trail handguns...

http://firearms.smith-wesson.com/store/index.php3?cat=293531&item=831458&sw_activeTab=1

[Weasel]

Originally posted by tsm1mt


Anyhow, I was advised against a .45ACP for bear.. something like a .40 Sig was a better choice, IIRC. The 45 was too slow and too big - wouldn't penetrate. The 9mm wasn't enough umph.. .40 Sig seemed to be a good compromise that would do the job.

I don't want to carry a Desert Eagle "just in case".. and if I'm gonna plunk down coin for a handgun, I'm sure as hell going to carry it (otherwise, what is it? A fancy plinking gun?).. and I don't see me carrying a hand-cannon everywhere.

.40 Sig eh, Didn't know they made that round spraky. They do have a .357 SIG that is smoking. Is that what you where thinking of? I agree with the .45, .40 9mm though. Another possible hot bear round would be the 10mm. The 10mm and .357 Sig have amazing pentration and knock down enegry.

I feel the same way about carrying.

[NJfourwheeler]

Originally posted by Weasel


.40 Sig eh, Didn't know they made that round spraky. They do have a .357 SIG that is smoking. Is that what you where thinking of? I agree with the .45, .40 9mm though. Another possible hot bear round would be the 10mm. The 10mm and .357 Sig have amazing pentration and knock down enegry.

I feel the same way about carrying.


True but the 357 Sig is pushing the limits of it's case. A 10mm is much safer round and of course easier to reload since it isn't a neck downed brass.

[HeyBeerMan]

Yup all the time.

beerman

[Weasel]

Originally posted by NJfourwheeler



True but the 357 Sig is pushing the limits of it's case. A 10mm is much safer round and of course easier to reload since it isn't a neck downed brass.

I don't know about safer as I've never heard of any problems with factory ammo being unsafe. It is more complicate to reload though as you don't want to use .40 cal brass as it's not the right size and could cause problems.

[tsm1mt]

Originally posted by Weasel


.40 Sig eh, Didn't know they made that round spraky. They do have a .357 SIG that is smoking. Is that what you where thinking of?


Shoulda paid better attention that day.. I think he was recommended his beloved SIG pistol, in either .357 SIG or the .40 S&W


I feel the same way about carrying.

Too dang expensive to stick in a safe!

[jds4x43]

I carry period. If you see me somewhere close by is my weapon. 99% of the time it's not in plain sight though.

John

[rokryder]

QUOTE]Originally posted by SilverZuk

If you are carrying a firearm for defense, you need to keep your mind, and shooting skills sharp. You also need to realize the consequences if you ever do shoot someone. Even if it is legal, you just killed/maimed someone’s daddy/son/brother etc. [/QUOTE]:rolleyes:

My freind got jumped by a bunch of guys while camping. They were pushing his girlfreind around and he jumped in the middle of it and they sent him to the hospital. broke his jaw in 3 places.

I carry a a cheap gun in case it gets lost or stolen. Usually a tokarav or 44 mag. If your going to wear it, know where it is and keep it close, cuz they do get stolen and not having it when you need it kinda defeats the purpose.

[VT_Toy]

Scoob usually rides shotgun, so I feel ok in the middle of nowhere :D

Don't have a handgun yet, I'll definately take it when I get one. Don't usually take my shotgun because we're not allowed to carry them loaded in a vehicle in VT. I figure standing there loading it is just going to get me shot. I take it if I'm vehicle-camping in a remote place.

That's interesting comments about anti-bear ammo. Never heard that about a .45, I always figured it was a good choice. Can it work right if it has the right type of rounds?

[Aron82]

10mm and .40s&w are pretty close to the same. The .357 sig is a necked down .40.

More important than caliber is bullet choice and shot placement!!
Just about any animal in the lower 48 can be taken with a .22LR. I am not going to do it, but it has been done.
If you want to stop a grizzly with a pistol, make sure to have the front sight removed, so it hurts less when he shoves it up your ass.
The truth is that most animals go out of their way to avoid contact with humans.

[SilverZuk]

Rokryder,
I usually carry a cheap gun to. Usually a Kel-tec in 9mm.
It's reliable and accurate within 25 yards.
I'm not afraid to leave the $200 gun in my truck when I have to.
I would sweat if I had to leave a $600-1000 gun in my truck.

Others about bears,
I said magnum caliber handgun, black bear or grizzly.
I also said well placed shot (chest cavity, central nervous system - brain, spine). I would think center of mass of a charging bear.

Bears are very seldom a threat to ANYONE, unless you are doing something stupid. I don't see where it is necessary to walk around armed for bear, unless you are fishing in big bear country (that is why I said lower 48).

Assuming I got charged by a bear, and had a 9mm.
I would be steppin' and fetchin' for cover while retreiving/pointing my pistol. At some point probably 20 yards, or if I hit cover first, I would hope to start emptying the magazine into the bear.

Well the rest will have to be determined by what happens then. I doubt I'll ever be charged by a bear anyway.

[Haz-matt]

But only your super kung-fu powers will save you in this situation.
http://www.tribute.ca/tribute_objects/images/movies/dubbed_action_movie/kungpow4.jpg

[SilverZuk]

I avoid attack cattle at all costs.:flipoff2:

[VT_Toy]

I just went and checked out ballistics. Interesting. Never realized .45 was so weak compared to .357 Mag and 10MM. Always figured bigger was better :)

[azwildyoat]

Here is the Wild West I see a lot of people carrying on the trail. It doesn't seem to make too much sense when you are w/ a group, but I guess better safe than sorry:rolleyes:

[mike]

Originally posted by NJfourwheeler



True but the 357 Sig is pushing the limits of it's case. A 10mm is much safer round and of course easier to reload since it isn't a neck downed brass.

I haven't heard that about the .357 sig, although I consider it for the most part a novelty round cause it's just not all that popular so I pretty much ignore it ;) I've heard that a lot about .40 S&W though. The .45 isn't "weak" it's just a slow moving round, I mean really it's almost 100 years old too.. pretty much any modern magnum round is from 1935 or newer IIRC ;)

Edit: Oh and I carry either a .45acp 1911a1 or 9mm combat tupperware.

[tsm1mt]

Originally posted by VT_Toy
I just went and checked out ballistics. Interesting. Never realized .45 was so weak compared to .357 Mag and 10MM. Always figured bigger was better :)

I think the .45acp is a good choice for a soft fleshy target (human), but it just doesn't want to penetrate a bear's thick hide and fat.

Just like you use a different round when hunting Moose than you do hunting a little white-tail.

[mike]

Originally posted by azwildyoat
Here is the Wild West I see a lot of people carrying on the trail. It doesn't seem to make too much sense when you are w/ a group, but I guess better safe than sorry:rolleyes:

You moved here from someplace else is my guess?

[anonymity]

Why the hell would you need on gun on the trails:question:
Ever hear of bear spray works well, better than a gun if you're staring at a grizzly and it works on people too.

[mike]

Originally posted by anonymity
Why the hell would you need on gun on the trails:question:
Ever hear of bear spray works well, better than a gun if you're staring at a grizzly and it works on people too.

because here in southern AZ we got not only bears, we got mt lion, panther, bobcat, coyote, wolf, drug smugglers, people smugglers, etc etc etc... go ahead, call 911... they'll never find you

[tsm1mt]

Originally posted by anonymity
Why the hell would you need on gun on the trails:question:
Ever hear of bear spray works well, better than a gun if you're staring at a grizzly and it works on people too.

How's it work on fast moving cats? Or a pissed off Moose? :D

How about a snake?

Bear spray wouldn't do much to alert your fellow wheelers that there's something afoot like a pistol report.

Not to mention, it's kinda difficult to get dinner with bear spray if you needed to. :)

I've never stumbled upon a cat or wolf while out n' about.. but I've crossed fresh lion tracks while hunting, got spooked by a fox (who was spooked by me!), and I've surprised too many brown and black bears.

[mike]

FWIW the report alone scares bears off better than pepper spray.. hows that for first hand experience ;)

[stone]

i have my concealed carry so i always carry, wheelin, runnin, work, where ever

[tat2drew]

Just some advise, if you plan to carry a hand gun in Ca. be careful.
The best thing to do if you plan on having a hand gun with you most of the time would be to get a carry permit. If you choose not to get a carry permit be cautious with how you carry, transport, and present it.

Here is what happened to me:

After wheelin a OHV route up in the Sierras till midnight in my rig with a passenger and a friend in his with passengers, we came down to the trailhead and got stopped by Fish and Game. When I say stopped, I mean spotlights lighting us up and a loudspeaker commanding us to shut down our rigs. As it turns out, a fish and game plane had reported to ground units about there being rigs on the trail at night(which is not against the law) and when we came down to the trailhead they were waiting for us.
We were on our best behavior and in return we got treated pretty poorly by the officers. When asked if we had any weapons, and we said we did, they illegally searched our vehicles and siezed our mag lights and our fire arms.
After 2 hours of questioning, rude comments, and running background checks on every person we were told that we were in violation of a fish and game law and were all given citations for a must appear at the federal magistrate. The crime? Having a weapon capable of taking game in an area where game is present along with having a flashlight at night or as they wrote it: spotlighting(hunting at night).
The interesting thing is that besides our hanguns and flahlights we had no hunting gear, no camping gear, no ice chests or alcholic beverages, were dressed in nice clothes and hadnt fired a shot from either of the handguns all night. After being let go with citations in hand and without our personal property we headed down the road in disbelief.
The upside of this story is that in the following weeks we fought the charges, took it from the local level which was of no help, to the state level and finally had it dismissed after the Chief of fish and game heard our story, our backgrounds, occupations and checked everything out. The two officers were investigated but still work in the same area(and still harrass the public from what I hear), and we were returned our personal property with an apology from the Chief not the officers.

So be careful. Even if your in the right, somebody might think otherwise.

Andrew

[rckjeep]

I carry while wheeling too. 1911 .45 good stopping power. I carry because I've seen some seriously drunk A holes out on the trail and yes if I feel threatened I'll shoot one. Especially after the (rumor) story of the clowns at the Con threatening a guys wife and family. F-that shit. I look at this way if I know people are carrying I would be nothing but nice. Just remember you never know who is carrying a pistol.

Oh and I never get shi@t faced while I wheel. Makes for bad decision making.

[Weasel]

The .357 Sig is here to stay I think. The Secret Service carries the same round and it's a pretty good one from the ballistic tests. Ammo is just as cheap as .40 S&W for atleast what I have been buying.

Heres some info I found awhile back on it. Another article I was reading stated that only the .357 Sig and 10mm were able to pentrate a complete 14" ballisitic gelatain and break the gelatain backing plate. I did a ton of research before I bought my Sig in the .357.

http://www.recguns.com/Sources/IIIC2q6.html

And SilverZuk, bears are pretty common in Montana, more so then you would think. I've been out and ran accrossed fresh bear sign lots of times and it's always unsettling.

Hiking I also carry pepper spray, the gun is a last resort, type of deal.

[mike]

It may well be, but ammo availabilty isn't the same as 9mm, .40 or .45acp. The exact same reason I have no interest in .45gap

[Weasel]

I have no problem finding ammo either. I haven't tried Walmart but all the gun shops in Rapid City carry it so if I can get in the middle of Cowtown SD I have a good chance of getting it everywhere else.

[That Mick]

Tom- I think you (and others) are missing the boat.

The ultimate wheeling gun has been around for ~ 50 years now.

Smith&Wesson Centennial in .357 Mag.

Small, light (I carry mine in my front pocket) with a major bite.
Carry's easy with the internal hammer, and if 5 rounds of Cor-Bon .357 don't do the job, you aren't doing yours.

As a plus, snakeshot shells are easy to come by, as is cheap and light practice ammo (.38 special).

If the J-frame is too light for you, the K&L frames don't carry as nice, but they have an even bigger bite.

Matt

[TEX]

Originally posted by mike


we got mt lion, panther,

Mt. lion AND Panther, whoaaaaaaaa :p



TEX

[mike]

Originally posted by TEX


Mt. lion AND Panther, whoaaaaaaaa :p



TEX

Two totally different species :p go look it up :p And yep, got em both

[TEX]

Originally posted by mike


Two totally different species :p go look it up :p And yep, got em both

Yeah, one's a leopard & you don't have 'em in AZ. :flipoff2: There have been Jaguar sitings though.

TEX

[mike]

Originally posted by TEX


Yeah, one's a leopard & you don't have 'em in AZ. :flipoff2: There have been Jaguar sitings though.

TEX

Ok, Mtn lion and Sonoran Jaguar, happy now? :flipoff2:

[stone]

The .357 Sig is here to stay I think
my daily and wheelin gun is a sig 229 in .357 sig, but when i run i carry my smith airlite. i love the 229

[That Mick]

Originally posted by stone

my daily and wheelin gun is a sig 229 in .357 sig, but when i run i carry my smith airlite. i love the 229

229???

which is what??

Matt

[Hef]

My guns usually stay at home. I will consider carrying when I get a normal pistol.

[TEX]

Originally posted by mike


Ok, Mtn lion and Sonoran Jaguar, happy now? :flipoff2:

Nope :D Tell me more 'bout those Jags. I've only read bits & pieces about their sitings in AZ. Are they showing up more frequently these days???


TEX

[urjb]

While I am a shooter and "gun Enthusiast" and own plenty of guns suitable for carry in the rig ..I usually don't any more.

Reason #1, there is an incleasing populatin of kids around our camp that I don't want involed. Meaning they arent familiar with guns or comfortable around them, and I don't want 'em getting ahold of one.

Reason #2, never fails, the gun gets fawked up, and I like to keep 'em nice.

Reason #3, I would flip if someone jacked one of mine ...I know this would be near to impossible if I were carrying, but I dont like having it on my person 24 hours aday ...too heavy/bulky.

Eric

[v-twintech]

Originally posted by Hef
My guns usually stay at home. I will consider carrying when I get a normal pistol.






Hef said normal..........What a crock. :rolleyes:

[Crust]

Beside the point of who has a bigger gun, which must just be compensation for something. Both the GF and I bring ours. In part for animal protection and A-hole protection. The other part is just cause we can. We went wheeling this weekend with a group of about 6 people and the talk of guns came up. 5 were carrying. And we are no white trash wheelin' folk. So if there is a bear maybe no one will get that one well placed shot but 70 poorly placed shots should give him the idea. And as for some shiat like the SANORA POSSY or dude getting his jaw broken. That in my eyes could be seen as a life threatening situation.

[Hef]

Originally posted by v-twintech







Hef said normal..........What a crock. :rolleyes:


Carrying my MAC-11 or TEC-9 would be a PITA. They're big (as a sidearm) and "scary looking". I'm sure I'd get only headaches from carrying either.

A Glock 23 or nice little Kel-Tec .380 would be a better choice, if only because of the hassle.

[v-twintech]

Originally posted by Hef



Carrying my MAC-11 or TEC-9 would be a PITA. They're big (as a sidearm) and "scary looking". I'm sure I'd get only headaches from carrying either.

A Glock 23 or nice little Kel-Tec .380 would be a better choice, if only because of the hassle.

Have you no side arms? I'm just ribbing you. I agree, the above would cause a scene. No need for that.

I will not go anywhere without. Too much shit hits the local fan. I prefer my Glock 30. Nothing says FUCK YOU like a .45 ACP. It fits my small hand nicely, but then again, I have a small pecker too. :flipoff2:

[TEX]

Originally posted by Hef
A Glock 23 or nice little Kel-Tec .380 would be a better choice, if only because of the hassle.

I've had my eye on one of these :)

http://www.swfirearms.vista.com/userimages/163688_large.jpg

Different direction, but still very portable.


TEX

[4runner]

diff guns for diff jobs..I carry ALWAYS, EVERYWHERE.

[That Mick]

Originally posted by TEX


I've had my eye on one of these :)

http://www.swfirearms.vista.com/userimages/163688_large.jpg

Different direction, but still very portable.


TEX

Since I've got my pocket gun,

I want one of these:

http://www.fototime.com/70024F7601C9B8B/standard.jpg

But not in nickel.

Matt

[Weasel]

Originally posted by That Mick


229???

which is what??

Matt

Sig P229, compact pistol same internals as a P228 but with a milled stainless slide rather then the stamped slide on the P228. The P229 was build to handle the high pressure loads from the .357 Sig, hence the milled slide.

[That Mick]

ok, nevamind, I'm blind.

Thought he was talking about a S&W 229.:emb3:

Weasel- do you know if they are shutting down Farmingdale shooting range?

They've had it posted for what, a year now???

Matt

[Weasel]

I've been out there a few times but nothing recent and I don't remember any closer signs either? News to me. Last time we went up by fallen rock and were shooting into the bank and a sheriff rolls up. Guess they are having a big problem with someone shooting deer and leaving them to rot, like 10-15 in that area. :mad:

Last weekend we went out to Beretta Road to shoot off a few rounds, but quite a few people go out there sort of crowded.

[That Mick]

standerd gov. issue 8x11 sign on the fencepost as you turn in to the range area. Guess they aren't too concerned.

I don't like Beretta road just cause of the crowding. lots of places to shoot, but just not my style.

Matt

[dieseltoy]

I homesteaded in Alaska for a long time. Rent was free, as the previous inhabitants had been mauled by blackbears, and left. When we took the dogsled out to check the traplines (some were bear traps) we always took 44 mags (pistol and lever action).

Never shoot at the top of a bear's head, as the bone is real thick and sloped. Aim for the heart, or the open mouth.

The Iditarod course went across the lake in front of our cabin, and it was one of the few times a year we ever saw any other people in the Matanuska Valley.

If you shoot a bear with a lesser caliber, it will probably eventually die, but possibly not before he tears your limbs off and plays with you for a while. Their hearts beat slower than ours. Even after you put a slug in it's pump, it could still run you down.

The pic below is of a hiker who put seven medium caliber pistol rounds into a bear. It just pissed the bear off, and the bear was later shot by a hunter with a large caliber rifle.

I have edited the pic slightly for obvious reasons. I am not trying to gross anyone out, but after living in Alaska for 16 years I have heard too many gruesome stories about people who were killed or lost a limb or two. (many after emptying a clip into a bear with a handgun that would have taken a PCP'd freak down with one shot).

I just don't want people to get the impression that they can be "loaded for bear" with a 9mm.

http://clean4x4.com/Ted.jpg

http://clean4x4.com/Ted1.jpg

http://clean4x4.com/Ted2.jpg

[rok-jeep]

Good God, that pic is intense.....:eek:

Roxy may not like that one without a 35% warning, just a headsup.

[SilverZuk]

Originally posted by dieseltoy
I homesteaded in Alaska for a long time. Rent was free, as the previous inhabitants had been mauled by blackbears, and left. When we took the dogsled out to check the traplines (some were bear traps) we always took 44 mags (pistol and lever action).


What you posted was an amalgum of several stories.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/bearhunt.asp

I don't ever remember hearing about the hiker firing any rounds.

Also the 357 sig was a round develped by IPSCA shooters IIRC.

Ballistically,
The 9mm and 45 ACP are nearly identical.
9mm is twice the speed and half the weight (F=M*A)
However, statistics compiled by the military show that the 45 ACP is more effective at stopping a human with one shot. (likely frontal area of bullet.

Stopping power is caused by the amount of energy disapated in a target by a projectile, barring a central nervous system shot (brain and spinal cord).
The factors that determine how much energy are; velocity, weight, and bullet design. Bullet design is the biggest variable.
You would be better to shoot a human with a good frangible bullet from a 9mm, than a hard ball bullet from a larger caliber.

You all can talk until you are blue in the face about which is the best cartridge. It doesn't matter if you can't hit your target, and will be ineffective if you have a magazine full of FMJ "hard ball" ammo.

Oddly, the 223 w/ military ammo was shown to be the least effective at stopping a human with one shot inside of 50 meters.
The 12 ga was oboviously the most effective.

Here's some interesting stats on this page.
http://www.evanmarshall.com/
This guy has compiled an enormous pile of statistics. Very good info.

[SilverZuk]

Pros and Cons of carrying openly.

Pros:

1. Easy to get to
2. Makes someone sizing you up as victim think twice.
3. Will more than likely deter any confrontations in your vicinity.
4. More comfortable than a concealed pistol.

Cons:
1. You lose the element of surprise. Statistics show that 90-95% of the time a gun is pulled the situation deteriorates without a shot being fired. If they confront you with a pistol in plain view, more than likely are prepared for it.
2. People know that you’re carrying, and will immediately attach a label and stigma to you.
3. If the chit does hit the fan, you will be one of the first persons to be shot at, because they know you are a threat.

[dieseltoy]

Originally posted by SilverZuk


What you posted was an amalgum of several stories.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/bearhunt.asp

I don't ever remember hearing about the hiker firing any rounds.



The photos and hiker incident was forwarded to me from a friend.

Everything else I wrote is certainly no "story".

[Overbear]

A lot of debate on what round is better to carry and such.

My $.02 on it. I carry a colt 1903 .32 pocket automatic and 3 clips in a sholder rig. Now at 92 grain blacktip holowpoints, its not the stoping power of a .357 or .40. However I find it to be quite enougth, its lightweight, easy to carry, and will stop a man size target with a triple tap. (FYI a triple tap is 2 rounds to the center mass/chest and one to the head in rapid succession)

[gunracer1]

that is not a triple tap, there is a term moze+something that is what you call it,two in the chest, one in the head.

[MattS]

Only a few times. No one ever knew I had it. It's the best way. Some people really freak out when they see a gun on anyone but a cop. :rolleyes:

[Bobzooki]

Originally posted by onetoncv
I just got a 45 repro long colt 1875

I wanna be a cow-boy...

[Al Kaholick]

Originally posted by SilverZuk


Ballistically,
The 9mm and 45 ACP are nearly identical.
9mm is twice the speed and half the weight (F=M*A)
However, statistics compiled by the military show that the 45 ACP is more effective at stopping a human with one shot. (likely frontal area of bullet.

Stopping power is caused by the amount of energy disapated in a target by a projectile.

Idont know a whole lot aboutbaallistics but you mentioned f=ma which is irrelevant to energy. I think what you meant was kinetic energy which is actually E=.5mv^2 where E is the kinetic energy and m is the mass of the bullet and v is its velocity so a lightter faster round will actually strike with more energy

[That Mick]

Originally posted by SilverZuk


Ballistically,
The 9mm and 45 ACP are nearly identical.
Wrong- the 9mm parabellum and 45 acp are as ballistically identical as Curtis and DRM are politically identical.


However, statistics compiled by the military show that the 45 ACP is more effective at stopping a human with one shot. (likely frontal area of bullet.
Right.


Stopping power is caused by the amount of energy disapated in a target by a projectile, barring a central nervous system shot (brain and spinal cord).
The factors that determine how much energy are; velocity, weight, and bullet design. Bullet design is the biggest variable.
You would be better to shoot a human with a good frangible bullet from a 9mm, than a hard ball bullet from a larger caliber.
True to a point. I'd rather shoot a human with a .500 S&W Mag 440gr Cor-Bon with the nice flat merplat then any round from a 9mm :D:D

You all can talk until you are blue in the face about which is the best cartridge. It doesn't matter if you can't hit your target, and will be ineffective if you have a magazine full of FMJ "hard ball" ammo.
Truth

[Weasel]

I'm still working on my accuracy but it pretty decent for just starting out. Was hitting bottles at 50ft pretty easily. Need to get better though.

[That Mick]

Always room for improvement, I concentrate on distances less then 30'. My snubby isn't good much past 50' anyhow.

At 7 yards I can put 5 of 5 in a 4" circle, strong hand, weak hand, or with a real stance. Can't do much on the move, but I'm thinking the Crimson Trace grips will help.

[Weasel]

I was thinking of trying out the lasers once I get a bit more used to the gun. They would help I think since with my eyes I can see the sights clearly if I use my bifocals but the taget is out of focus and it switches if I don't use my glasses. The laser would let me see the sight(dot) and the target clearly.

[MikeW]

I carry a 9mm in my center console, Walther P-1

[mike]

Originally posted by SilverZuk



Oddly, the 223 w/ military ammo was shown to be the least effective at stopping a human with one shot inside of 50 meters.


Not very odd, any ammo that is either frangible or mushrooming (ie, rounds that will cause a tremendous amoutn of soft tissue damage) are outlawed by the Geneva Convention.

[dieseltoy]

Originally posted by That Mick

Wrong- the 9mm parabellum and 45 acp are as ballistically identical as Curtis and DRM are politically identical.


Right.

[b]
True to a point. I'd rather shoot a human with a .500 S&W Mag 440gr Cor-Bon with the nice flat merplat then any round from a 9mm :D:D
[b]
Truth

The best gun is the one you pry from your defeated opponents twitching fingers.

[SilverZuk]

Originally posted by Al Kaholick


Idont know a whole lot aboutbaallistics but you mentioned f=ma which is irrelevant to energy. I think what you meant was kinetic energy which is actually E=mv^2 where E is the kinetic energy and m is the mass of the bullet and v is its velocity so a lightter faster round will actually strike with more energy

You expressed the identical equation as what I did.

V^2 = Acceleration

[SilverZuk]

Originally posted by That Mick

Wrong- the 9mm parabellum and 45 acp are as ballistically identical as Curtis and DRM are politically identical.


Let me classify me previous statement:
In physics they are identical, bullet flight and trajectory they are not.

I was basing that statement on the F=M*A and referencing it to energy.

[Al Kaholick]

Originally posted by SilverZuk


You expressed the identical equation as what I did.

V^2 = Acceleration

no, v^2 is not equal to a. By the way I edited my expression it should read e=.5mv^2

[TLCObsession]

Probably will catch heat for it, and no I am not anti gun.

The only time I have felt unsafe while camping or wheeling was because of others with guns. Sometimes in my group, sometimes other wheelers, and a few times yayhoos.

Doesn't mean you should not carry. I prefer concealed because it freaks people out less (especially hikers & Mtn Bikers).

Jim

[Al Kaholick]

Originally posted by TLCObsession
Probably will catch heat for it, and no I am not anti gun.

The only time I have felt unsafe while camping or wheeling was because of others with guns. Sometimes in my group, sometimes other wheelers, and a few times yayhoos.

Doesn't mean you should not carry. I prefer concealed because it freaks people out less (especially hikers & Mtn Bikers).

Jim

thats more a person by person thing for me. Theres one guy who is a friend of a bunch of my friends and I will not go on a camping trip if hes going because hes a dumbass with his guns. Definately everyone though

[SilverZuk]

You made me go back and review physics.:flipoff2:

http://wikibooks.org/wiki/Displacement,_velocity,_and_acceleration_(Physics_ Study_Guide)

V= delta X / delta T
A = delta V / delta T

Therefore
A= (delta X / delta T)/delta T
A = ft/sec^2

Still digging through to verify your equation.

edit: an interesting read that is related to the 9mm vs 45acp:
http://www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/glock/glock.pl?read=1340

[NotQuiteSane]

Jess,

Those long SA revolvers are not exactly comfortable to wear when wheeling.

you may consider fabbing up a mount that places it under the dash or beside you

Or you could have it modified as a sherriffs model :D

NQS

[DieLucas!]

Originally posted by dieseltoy


The best gun is the one you pry from your defeated opponents twitching fingers.

Yeah, but if it failed to kill you, what guarantee do you have it would be worthwhile in your hands? What are you gonna do? Throw it at your target? :laughing: :flipoff2:

[NotQuiteSane]

Originally posted by tsm1mt
Anyhow, I was advised against a .45ACP for bear.. something like a .40 Sig was a better choice, IIRC. The 45 was too slow and too big - wouldn't penetrate. The 9mm wasn't enough umph.. .40 Sig seemed to be a good compromise that would do the job.

Tom,

the Sig is one of the best pistols made. period. Buit if you're gonna carry a .40, carry a 10mm instead. light 10's are .40 clones, and you can carry the hot stuff for the real trouble

NQS

[NotQuiteSane]

Originally posted by SilverZuk
Pros and Cons of carrying openly.

Cons:
2. People know that you’re carrying, and will immediately attach a label and stigma to you.

Tom, Sully, Matt & I all drive scouts. I really don't think any "gun owner" label would overshadow "scout owner" :flipoff2:

As for being labeled, here's another you can add to what people think of me: Don't Care.

I've carried for the last 13 years, I intend to carry for the next 80.

NQS

[Weasel]

I thought the 10mm was longer then the .40 SW? Sig doesn't make a 10mm version yet and from what I hear doesn't sound like they are going to make one.

[Al Kaholick]

Originally posted by SilverZuk
You made me go back and review physics.:flipoff2:

http://wikibooks.org/wiki/Displacement,_velocity,_and_acceleration_(Physics_ Study_Guide)

V= delta X / delta T
A = delta V / delta T

Therefore
A= (delta X / delta T)/delta T
A = ft/sec^2

Still digging through to verify your equation.

edit: an interesting read that is related to the 9mm vs 45acp:
http://www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/glock/glock.pl?read=1340

yes the units of acceleleration can be express in ft/s^2 but that is not the same as (ft/s)^2 which is your claim

notice that if a=v^2 then the units would be expressed as ft^2/s^2.

again not the same. Your expression that acceleration is equal to the square of the velocity makes the acceleleration dependant on the velocity which in this case I will agree with to a pointdue tothe fact that the wind resistance is related to the objects velocity. However this relationship is trivial when we are evaluating the energy at a point in time because the effect of wind resistance in no longer in existance upon contact with a body because it is now moving through flesh and imparting its kinetic energy to the body. Ideally the bullet will not exit the body and then all of its kinetic energy is transferred to the body allowing maximum stopping power.

http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/gbssci/phys/Class/energy/u5l1c.html

edited to add link to more info

[XJ wit an LT1]

I carry a glock 10 mm whenever i am in the woods or wheeling... just force of habit. Had a situation once and having it with me saved my ass. Jersey is a bitch to get a concealed permit.. thats no joke.. The only time i don't crarry while wheelin is when we're at paragon.. out of sheer respect and lack of danger.

[NotQuiteSane]

Originally posted by Weasel
I thought the 10mm was longer then the .40 SW? Sig doesn't make a 10mm version yet and from what I hear doesn't sound like they are going to make one.

the .40 evolved from the 10mm, it is shorter. No, Sig doesn't make a 10mm, however Sig does make quality firearms

currently there are only 2 mass produced 10mm handguns. the glunk and the eaa witness aka tz75. I reccomend the witness

NQS

[speedo]

I carry a Super Redhawk in .454 Casull but I wouldn't want to rely on it for a bear. I normally carry a .375 H&H long gun when I wheel, a good share of my wheeling is in country that is open to grizzly or black bear all year around.

Gus

[ecrist]

I carry a Super Redhawk in .454 Casull but I wouldn't want to rely on it for a bear. I normally carry a .375 H&H long gun when I wheel, a good share of my wheeling is in country that is open to grizzly or black bear all year around.

Gus

Holy 2-year-old post! :flipoff2:

[Daveyclimber]

Just some advise, if you plan to carry a hand gun in Ca. be careful.
The best thing to do if you plan on having a hand gun with you most of the time would be to get a carry permit. If you choose not to get a carry permit be cautious with how you carry, transport, and present it.

Here is what happened to me:

After wheelin a OHV route up in the Sierras till midnight in my rig with a passenger and a friend in his with passengers, we came down to the trailhead and got stopped by Fish and Game. When I say stopped, I mean spotlights lighting us up and a loudspeaker commanding us to shut down our rigs. As it turns out, a fish and game plane had reported to ground units about there being rigs on the trail at night(which is not against the law) and when we came down to the trailhead they were waiting for us.
We were on our best behavior and in return we got treated pretty poorly by the officers. When asked if we had any weapons, and we said we did, they illegally searched our vehicles and siezed our mag lights and our fire arms.
After 2 hours of questioning, rude comments, and running background checks on every person we were told that we were in violation of a fish and game law and were all given citations for a must appear at the federal magistrate. The crime? Having a weapon capable of taking game in an area where game is present along with having a flashlight at night or as they wrote it: spotlighting(hunting at night).
The interesting thing is that besides our hanguns and flahlights we had no hunting gear, no camping gear, no ice chests or alcholic beverages, were dressed in nice clothes and hadnt fired a shot from either of the handguns all night. After being let go with citations in hand and without our personal property we headed down the road in disbelief.
The upside of this story is that in the following weeks we fought the charges, took it from the local level which was of no help, to the state level and finally had it dismissed after the Chief of fish and game heard our story, our backgrounds, occupations and checked everything out. The two officers were investigated but still work in the same area(and still harrass the public from what I hear), and we were returned our personal property with an apology from the Chief not the officers.

So be careful. Even if your in the right, somebody might think otherwise.

Andrew




I too have felt the wrath of the Fish and Game as well as the BLM marshall for being in the wrong place at the wrong time . Nothin like having a gun held to your head for no good reason and being cooperative.:mad3: FWIW , these guys are nearly paramilitary and carry a preimium assortment of weapons. The Marshall that harrassed me Had no less than 5 wepons in his unit. He had 2 shotguns a AR15/M16 and a Mini 14 along with atleast his sidearm.

[Slowerthanu]

I wouldn't carry visible, it lets the bad guys know ahead of time that you are armed.

Animals is of course a different story.

[gilraine]

Not sure who you need to blow to get a permit in NJ but it's near impossible. That doesn't mean I don't take precautions on the trail or in Camden. :rolleyes:

http://www.kc2sho.com/images/me/me7.jpg
NICE trigger discipline..

[Redmist]

When on the trail I have a 1919A4 mounted topside with 200 rounds of 308 ready to go.

Sometimes I will transition to the AR-50 .50 BMG for the harder targets. Lions, Tigers Bears... LIGERS! I do live in idaho.

If on foot I will take the MEGA/LMT M4gery build.

At night its the SBR 5"TROS 3 lug 9mm with the Trinity can on the end to keep from scaring the campers around me.

I also keep my spare tire full of tanerite in case some person decides to take my rig. A quick shot to the back and preperty is recovered!!! In peices, but it is recovered non the less.




















I daily CC a Springfield XD9 Sub in the summer, and just got a Glock 23 for winter CC. :)

[onetoncv]

wow- this post is getting old- Jess