All,

I've been talking to Jack about doing a mass buy on his CTM joints for the past week or so. He REALLY wants to do it, but he is new and is worried about stepping on toes. He decided no to do it right now primarily for the following reasons.

1. Some of the people that have already bought the joints on this board may get there feathers ruffled about not getting in on the deal.

2. He set a minimum price for his distributors to sell his stuff for. If he sells to us for less, they might get bent about it.

What do you guys think? Any suggestions?

-Jack

I think it's the hottest new product out there, and if he plays his cards right Jack stands to gain a lot of notariety from them. I think his reasoning is sound.

Besides... those things are so amazing he doesn't have to lower the price to increase distribution.

Paul

That's unfortuanate for those interested, but it sounds like he's got his head on straight.

Let him get comfortable with the mob of requests he has to currently fill. In time with his distrubuters established, and things arent so hectic, he may be receptive to mass buys.
In other words, if you wanna be the 1st kid on the block to have the baddest U joints available,...well you gotta pay the price. And 150 each really isnt that bad when you consider the warranty and the reliability that comes with it.

Hey H8, what kind of rubber are you slinging w/ that D44 and CTM's? Done any real-world testing on them?

Yeah, even though he doesn't want to do a mass buy (for good reason), I'm still getting the joints. W/ 38 SX's and my cute little 44, I'm going to need them!

-Jack

I dont know about all this mass buy stuff , eventually someone is going to loose there money in a scam. Anyway I dont know who started all this mass buy crap but I havent had the chance to save a dime in 4x4 parts for the last 15 years I dont have an idea why I would want to start now:roxy:

These people have got to make a living somehow and they sure cant do it buy selling at cost

You may get burnt by working with Billy Joe Bob out in BFE, but if you are careful, you should be fine. Go with big time companies. Get receipts and use a credit card so you can have a way to dispute charges.

They aren't selling it at cost. You are cutting out middle men and getting them for wholesale (or there abouts). I can't imagine that these guys are agreeing to doing a mass buy if they aren't making any money. But I'm sure they appreciate your concern.

You get quantity discounts on everything. A dozen eggs is more per egg than if you get an 18 pack. A single soda out of a machine is 65 cents but you can get a 6 pack for 2 bucks. This may be a new application, but is not a new concept.

Originally posted by Sweet75
Hey H8, what kind of rubber are you slinging w/ that D44 and CTM's? Done any real-world testing on them?

Yeah, even though he doesn't want to do a mass buy (for good reason), I'm still getting the joints. W/ 38 SX's and my cute little 44, I'm going to need them!

-Jack

I run 38.50x14.50 SX, behind 300 hp/ 340 ft/lbs , and 13?:1 ratio.
I genearaly beat the piss out of my rig, with no regaurd for common sense. They made it through the CalRocs competition with no problem, but even more impressive was the Upper Big Johnson run at JV last week. I think I saw Big Rich sheilding his eyes waiting for the destruction a couple of times. The strength of these joints are amazing. You have to see them in action to believe it.

Originally posted by Sweet75
Hey H8, what kind of rubber are you slinging w/ that D44 and CTM's? Done any real-world testing on them?

Yeah, even though he doesn't want to do a mass buy (for good reason), I'm still getting the joints. W/ 38 SX's and my cute little 44, I'm going to need them!

-Jack

Come awn by and take a look at em if you want. Im just up the freeway from you.

I'd just like to comment that this is a very sound business decision by Jack.
Although a mass purchase would definately be nice for the consumer, with his product at such an early point in it's lifecycle and with him still establishing a distribution network he would only be shooting himself in the foot by selling these at a discount on a mass buy to a bulliten board.

With the recent demise of another 4x4 part related company due much in part to business decisions related to the internet I'm glad to see that Jack is using his noggin.
;)

At the present time...I can see why he don't do the deal', so if a guy was still going to purchase these, then what is the best buy? And who is the distributor on the east coast? Thanks.:smokin:

Where can I get a hold of Jack... I'd like to find out about selling these u-joints in our shop.... etc... anyone got a phone # or something I can call?

Matt "Taz" Green
Xtreme Engineering

Originally posted by ScoutsHonor
Where can I get a hold of Jack... I'd like to find out about selling these u-joints in our shop.... etc... anyone got a phone # or something I can call?

Matt "Taz" Green
Xtreme Engineering

Check your PM's

with so many people ready to take the money and run, it's a breath of fresh air to here this! jack you rock!!!

Jacks doin the right thing here.

However in time, the proper approach would be to have him give a slightly deeper discount to an existing distributor in order to pass the discount along to Pirate brethren. I work for a manufacturer and this is the way to handle it.

Sweet75- Since you've got the ball rolling I'd recommend this approach w/Jack. Maybe if you did a thread checking who would be in for a pair at a given price he could work a deal with a distributor. I had the pleasure of meeting Jack at CalRocs and he seems to be sincere and serious about his product, he's got a lot invested to date and intends on being around for the longhaul.

H8monday.


The strength of these joints are amazing. You have to see them in action to believe it.



ahhh this is killing me, come aaaawn warn shafts :)

So who out there has the best deals on these Ujoints then? I'm getting ready to put on 35spline stubs on my 60, considering popping a set of these bad boys in while I'm at it :)
Boss

Originally posted by ScoutsHonor
Where can I get a hold of Jack... I'd like to find out about selling these u-joints in our shop.... etc... anyone got a phone # or something I can call?

Matt "Taz" Green
Xtreme Engineering

Not interested in selling them, but how can I reliably get ahold of Jack. I'm over in Turkey with the military and can only use email, and possibly a 1 -800 #. Direct commercial is going to be very difficult. Plus the time zone change...

I tried the info thingy on the CTM site but it won't go through??? Any help???

I'll be home in the spring and would love to have a set of these sitting there ready to install once I get over the jet lag.

Back to the topic at hand. I think Jack's right on the money to do what he is doing. A good buddy got in with the other vendor that let the web traffic overtake his business. He finally got his parts but it took months longer than promised.

Man I want some CTM's... can someone tell me, I don't see the difference, but they should work in a D30 with warn alloys and 297's right? Since these are designed to be the size of the 297...
Scott

Here's my .02 on group buys.

I'll give a little background on how the general 4X4 shop thing works for us as a dealer . If you are a legit dealer looking to sell a product, most companies want us to do a buy in. This can be from a few thousand for a company that might make bumpers, and a few other pieces let's say. To WELL over $100,000 for some of the bigger names of 4X4 products. What you buy is X amount of merchandise (3K=3k worth of stuff) That gives you the right to sell thier product at a reasonable rate. If you can't do the buy in you can buy at "wholesale". This is what you the consumer pays from a mega company. Though good for the guy just looking for a price, it's not competitive for the little guy who can't afford to do every "buy in".
Due to the big mega companies the whole retail/jobber/wholesale thing has gotten screwed up. You guys the consumers are buying at what used to be the price the shops paid. The problem is that as the big companies squeeze out the knowledgeable little guys you are going to get some order taker from a huge company trying to talk you into a sway bar for your rock rig.

There may be two types of "group buys"

1) a small shop trying to get a better "buy in"

2) A consumer trying to get a bunch of other people together to get a better deal

One of the things the group buy does is it gives the way for a consumer to get a better deal than what a legit shop that has done a buy in or a mega company sells for. The negative thing for a shop besides the obvious is, let's say I want to buy into Terra and I pay 12K for a buy in so I can sell reverse cut 60's at a good price. Now someone comes along and does a "group buy" and manages to get a price that I had to stock 12k in stuff to get seems unfair to me. Yet If I want to "buy into" Terra which is one that I do want to buy into and I decide to do a "group buy" to help me come up with presold R/C 60's is it fair to the other dealers? If I'm allowed to sell at whatever price I can than while it may suck that I'm selling for cheaper it's up to me to do so.

So I agree with Jack, I want to be a distributor of CTM u joints, and if I saw him selling them to a non distributor for a price less or the same as what I'm paying. It's not going to make me want to reorder. I'll be jumping on the next strong U joint ship that comes along, or whatever product it is.

How do I feel personaly about group buys? I'm hesitant to start them here. It has always seemed like the kind of thing you saw on J.U. If someone wants to do one and tye a shop into it, I as a shop owner would consider it.

Steve N,

I read what you said, and totally see your point. The only thing is, you used the word "fair" a couple of times. And truth is, in a capatalist society, in business, it's pretty hard to be "fair".

Where does one draw the line? What if the "businesses" collaborate and establish a network, such that there are say 5 steps between the foundry and my garage....it's only "fair" that everyone makes a cut, makes a living...but when is it unfair for the consumer who has to finance everybody's living by paying a really high price at the "retail" end? What if there were 12 steps? Where does it end? When people have been paying high retail for a long time, it's only reasonable that they would band together to try and save $$.

I don't know what the answer is, just offering some thoughts.

Actually unfair once, and fair once:flipoff2: The point is it's not right for a company to give some guy off the street as good or better of a deal as they give thier distributors just because he rounded up a big order. Yet if a distributor who is another distributor's competitor wanted to it might be "not fair", but bummer that's business.

Sure you could say the same for the guy rounding up his buddies to make a group buy, but I made an agreement with the company, I must have a store front, a fed tax I.D. resale number, business license etc. In every case I've delt with so far. That's why it wouldn't be right to drop the standards for a consumer, yet make a dealer be held to a differen't standard.


I've got to go now I'm going to go over to JU and start a group buy or two :p ;)

Steve, sounds like you'll be the one callin Jack to get a deal on these so you can pass it along to Pirate folk.
THNX!

Oh yeh, why aint you advertising on the BB??

Check the Jeep section upper left corner. If I could get Lance to answer more than one question per PM I might be able to pay him even:flipoff2:

Ctm U joints have a minimum price I can charge which is nothing but great. So in this case what's cool is pick the vendor you like if it's me then good for me. If it's your local shop that's cool too. I'm not going to undercut any pricing on these. I'm also not going to charge a premium because I can get them.

I really don't like the group buy thing. As I said I might consider one yet only if the manufacturer approves etc. Plus there's the whole I still don't like them thing.