While pulling the condensor yesterday(87rrc), i saw what I thought was an oil cooler, but now realize is the tranny oil cooler.
It looks like its seen better days.
Any benefit to replacing it/upgrading it? I'm assuming a generic oil cooler would work.
Worth the hassle?



A 12row 2 3/4" x 11" x 1 1/2 cooler is only $32.99 and would likely fit right in where the condensor was.

For what is worth I do tow occasionally with my anemic 3.5.

I've got a spare cooler if you are interested...it was off Slade's '90 IIRC.

Hey, I need that cooler back!

The one that I have at my place is the one that was off of my '90. The one you have is the one I wanted to keep. It has that extra fitting for me to put a temp. sender in there.

I'll ship the one I have here to him for free if he pays for shipping (or trade you you ingrate!).

Bring it back you bastage!

:flipoff2:

:confused:

What transmission cooler?

:confused:

Although I appreciate the offer.....and thought of getting slade worked up certainly appeals to me, I think I'll pass. Thank you.
Is the one from a 90 rrc the same thing as an 87? Or is it an improved design?
I'm just thinking a slightly bigger cooler could help.

With a regular(engine) oil cooler, you run the risk of your oil being too cool, and causing damage to the engine.
Can the same be said for a tranny cooler.....or is that a case of the cooler the better?

The transmission oil cooler that I have runs the width of the radiator in front of the A/C fans.

I have made a bracket to fit the same cooler into the CrewCab, and was planning on running engine oil through it.

I have an adapter, the lines, everything needed to install it except the cooler (which DieLucas! has).

You bring up a point that I did not know. How cool is too cool? Is it a fallacy that I should want to cool down the engine oil? Will running it through that simple cooler in front of the radiator cool it down too much?

If my engine has no problems running at 180 deg., and doesn't overheat, do I really need to cool down the oil in the first place?

I was just thinking it was a good idea, made up all the parts, etc., but haven't installed it yet.

Sorry for the total hi-jack, but it's kind of in line with what you're talking about.

I can take a pic of the cooler I have sachilles if you wanted to compare.

Get me worked up? Not too hard lately.

From what I know about engine oil.....related to my mini race car... oil temp is critical.
They even make an oil cooler thermostat. It can be too cool.
For those to cheep to have the oil thermostat, there is an alternative. You can make a little blanking plate that cover the cooler preventing air from flowing over/through it.

Wasn't sure if it was a similar issue with tranny fluid.

To complicate the analogy with the mini.....the engine oil IS the tranny fluid. IE the mini's gearbox is in the oil pan.

Now from what I've experienced in my freinds defenders and my Rangie, the transmission area seems to throw off a significant amount of heat, especially off-road. So would additional tranny cooling help eliminate that issue....not so bad in the rangie, but the defenders get damn hot. We are in a cooler environment....not sure what you folks in the warmer climates do.

Originally posted by Serious One

I can take a pic of the cooler I have sachilles if you wanted to compare.

Get me worked up? Not too hard lately. [/B]

Only if you have a camera handy:rolleyes:
I wouldn't mind seeing it, just to see if they are the same between model years.

::::tripping over camera::::

Be right back.

:flipoff2:

Found this article via google....not much there but does mention letting the tranny get too cool
http://www.dieselpage.com/art1299ci.htm

Here it is.

Looks like the same thing, mine has a fitting on it for what I guess the the tranny temp sender.

oil thermostat link with a little bit of info.

oil t-stat (http://www.minimania.com/web/SUBTYPE/SearchText/Search/oil%20thermostat/Search_Inventory.cfm)

A mini related article....but some good info....but does it relate to tranny temps.

LUBRICATION- Temperature critical



The correct running temperature of the oil is perhaps even more important than the water/coolant temperatures - so let us consider how to control them. Mainly because it seems to be the most misunderstood of the whole process, and oil cooler fitment almost a reflex when over-heating occurs where a tuned engine of any type is concerned. And in many cases on standard production road cars for that matter.



Almost since the appearance of the immortal Cooper S, fitting an oil cooler has been the essential thing to do to any tuned Mini without any comprehension why. The original fitment was necessary because oil and bearing technology wasn’t too advanced. Asking an oil of yester-year to cope with lubricating an engine at racing speeds, and a gearbox pushed their performance to the edge of their all too narrow capability, so extreme control over their working environment was essential for reliability. Hence oil cooler fitment.



Giant steps forward in technology since then has benefited modern motor oils enormously. They’re far more capable than their ancestors, coping easily with broad temperature ranges without suffering total degradation. Correct temperatures are essential to disperse combustion products and other contaminants (such as water), and give maximum lubrication. Running the oil too cool is worse than running it a little hot. Short journeys cause low temperatures, protracted periods of hard driving excessively high temperatures. Constantly running the temperature outside the right temperature range dictates oil changes are needed far more frequently, and many miles sooner than normal. Generally by two thirds - and that’s no exaggeration. Incidentally - the short journeys syndrome is responsible for that milky substance that accumulates in rocker covers and breather pipes - it's condensation that has emulsified the oil because the engine/oil isn't getting hot enough to burn it off.



Optimum performance, for both economy and power, is achieved at temperatures around 100-107 degrees C (210-225 degrees F). Up to 120 degrees C (250 degrees F) is OK if a decent oil is used, but getting a little warm. Some engine builders believe oil should be kept around 80 degrees C (175 degrees F) to keep things ‘safe’. This simply is not high enough for best performance. The biggest problem is actually measuring the running temperature in a Mini. You need to assess the mean oil temperature measured in the gearbox (sump temperature). Extremely difficult to do considering there’s no ‘natural’ position to mount the sensor. As a consequence, many folk fit an adapter in the transfer pipe from the block to the filter head or oil cooler. Unfortunately this gives a much lower – therefore false – reading, rendering fitment near useless, and wasted finances. However, as always, Mini Spares to the rescue. Much arm-twisting persuaded one of their suppliers in the relevant field to produce a couple of adaptors that screw into the sump-plug hole, replacing the drain plug completely. These adaptors then allow fitment of a couple of different types of capillary-type temperature gauges to be used. After all - the electric ones generally available are no more than 'guess-ometers', so are pretty useless. If you want to know what the temperature is you want an exact reading, not a near miss.



So, what’s it got to do with engine temperature/cooling? The oil not only lubricates engine components; it also cools them by carrying heat away from them just the way water/coolant does in the cooling system. Much of the oil cooling is done by airflow across the alloy gearbox casing, some by the cooling system carrying heat away from the crankcase/engine block. Really good oil will do this more effectively than others, reducing general running temperatures without needing more cooling capacity, giving the cooling system an easier life. As it degrades, it becomes less thermally efficient.



Most modern brand name oils are more than up to the job of dealing with a fairly broad temperature spectrum. Synthetic oils are far more tolerant of hot running without degrading. Some specialist oils work outstandingly in Minis. Few of them require coolers except in motorsport disciplines. Coolers work by air flowing through them, so one sited out of any reasonable air stream is worthless. Oil coolers that reduce temperatures by less than 10 degrees C are a waste of money. Trying to get the best of both worlds by using an oil thermostat with a cooler isn’t the answer. The thermostats generally open around 74 to 80 degrees C (165 to 175 degrees F) – under the required temperature for maximum performance, a bigger waste of money. Not to mention the hassle of fitting it!



Rule of thumb and years of experience push to the fore where recommendations are concerned. It’s also one of those areas where less knowledgeable/scrupulous types will sell you what they’ve got and what they want to sell (oils and coolers) rather than what’s best. Successful engine tuners have their own solutions. For guidance, there are some well-established ground rules.



Road cars with engines producing up to 100bhp at the crank don’t need coolers unless they spend a good deal of their time in the maximum power bracket. If the car's a weekend warrior, fit a cooler (a 10 row one will be more than ample), but blank it off when on general duty. For a racer, make sure your oil temp is right. As with the weekend warrior theme, fit an oil cooler - it can always be blanked off with tape to achieve the desired running temperatures. Make sure it is in the airflow though - sticking it in the back corner of the engine bay is worthless.



Some things to look out for when considering fitting an oil cooler. If a pre-engaged starter is used/fitted (integral starter solenoid) the oil cooler needs to be mounted closer to the alternator. Longer pipes than usual will therefore be needed. Up to 1992, the A-series used a block union size of 5/8-in UNF and filter head union size of 1/4-in NPT. From 1992 onwards, the union sizes on engines with the prefix number of '12A…' were changed to 11/16-in UNF on both block and filter head. The filter head can be recognised by the casting number LPX10027 on it. These latter units had an absolutely disastrous 'O'-ringed fitting that was supposed to hold the transfer pipe into the block - it didn't. The result was many upset late model Mini owners when their engine spewed oil out al over the place. Not to mention the damage it did when on the motorway before it was noticed! Consequently Mini Spares had a special steel-braided replacement pipe made with proper screw-in fittings.



Use good quality oil. Valvoline 20/50 Racing mineral oil is very good in Minis at a very reasonable price. Torco 20/50 mineral oil is exceptional, 5/50 synthetic better, 20/50 absolutely brilliant - but all a bit more expensive. Most established brand named multi-grade oils are OK. Torco’s whole range of oils are the best at heat transfer I’ve ever come across, Red Line a close second but they only do full synthetic racing oils so are relatively expensive. Mobil 1 was the first real fully synthetic oil, but I've always found it poor at carrying heat away from major components (like crank and cam). I've had the same reports from other users in various fields of motorsport used in a wide variety of engines. Simply going from Mobil 1 that I used for a couple of years, necessitating a very large oil cooler to be used, to Torco 5/50 I saw such a huge drop in oil temperature I could run with NO cooler, and still had 10 degrees better temperature. And that was in a 1430cc, 150bhp, LSD equipped tarmac racer!



If the car is used for mostly short journeys (under 20 minutes) or sporadic bouts of aggressive use, change the oil at least twice as often if not more when using a middle-of-the-road oil.



Useful part numbers:

MOC10ROW - 10-row oil cooler, 1/2-in BSP male fittings
C-ARH221 - 13-row oil cooler, 1/2-in BSP male fittings
MOC16ROW - 16-row oil cooler, 1/2-in BSP male fittings
21A1794 - Original spec S oil cooler mounting brackets that fix to subframe (sold individually)

C-AHT3 - Mini Clubman steel braid, swaged end oil pipe kit
C-AHT4 - Mini steel braid, swaged end oil pipe kit
MOC1016 - '12A' engine/1992 onwards steel braid, swage end oil pipe kit
MOC1017 - Pre-engaged starter type up to 1992 steel braid, swaged end oil pipe kit

MOC100102 - Mini Clubman rubber, swaged end oil pipe kit
MOC1013 - Mini rubber, swaged end oil pipe kit
MOC1014 - '12A' engine/1992 onwards rubber, swaged end oil pipe kit
MOC1015 - Pre-engaged starter type up to 1992 rubber, swaged end oil pipe kit




Note: All pipe kits are 1/2-in BSP screw-on female fittings at cooler end. Pipe lengths in inches for each kit are listed as block to cooler/filter head to cooler:

Clubman 14/24, Mini 12/14, Pre-engaged to 1992 15/22, 12A engine/1992 on 15/22


MOC1018 Stainless steel braided oil transfer pipe replacement kit for the standard '12A' post 1992 engines with 'O'-ring block fitment.

MOCOT1 - Mocal oil thermostat (80 degree C)
MOCOT2 - Mocal oil temperature sender adaptor for oil cooler pipe fitment
MOC207 - 1/2-in BSP female cooler union, 90 degree push-on oil pipe fitting, 1-in Long after bend

MOC208 - 1/2-in BSP female cooler union, 45 degree push-on oil pipe fitting, 1-in Long after bend

MOC209 - 1/2-in BSP female cooler union, 45 degree push-on oil pipe fitting, 2-in long after bend

MOC01 - 1/2-in BSP male cooler pipe union fitting for early 5/8-in UNF block fitting

MOC02 - 1/2-in BSP male cooler pipe union fitting for early 1/4-in NPT filter head fitting

MOC03 - Pair push-on adaptors for early block/filter head thread sizes and 1/2-in bore oil pipe

C-AHH8537 - 1/2-in bore rubber cooler pipe sold by the foot

not sure that information is completely applicable in out situation due to different design of tranny/oil pans and power differences and cylinder number differences. Although that was a very interresting read and I have never actually heard of those two oils that he seems to like so much might be something to look into. As for tranny temps I have spent a bunch of time figuring out if my stock dodge tranny is going to hold up to my slightly bombed cummins and it seems that it will if the temps are held in check. Off the top of my head the range is 150 or less wasn't good 150-180 was optimum 180-200 the fluids needed to be changed at 2/3 the interval 200-220 1/2 the interval 220-240 is the danger zone and should not be kept in that area for a significant amount of time. Of course different people say different things and there is always that one guy that tows 16 million pounds with his dodge at 300 degrees the whole time and has 3.5 billion troublefree miles on his truck. Of course this is for a dodge tranny that is notorious for having a short life (granted being behind the torquest motor on the market probably doesn't help) so these numbers might be low for rover applications. I think that there is a happy medium which is brought up in the mini article. Don't want it too cool because the fluids won't act as they should but that would definately be better than too hot. AS for rover stuff I have a generic tranny cooler from pep boys I think it's an rv cooler 24,000 lb model I believe and I haven't had a problem with my tranny and I just changed the fluid the other day after about 15k and it looked good as new. Yes those generic coolers will cool better than the rover one and I don't think that they will get the tranny fluid too cool and adversely effect the tranny's performance. My two cents

ben