Hello Everybody,
I am kinda new to the Bronco thing, had a cruiser for the last year and I have been thinking that I rather go with a Bronco for some of the things I want to do. Anyways I did some searching and couldn't really find anything on anybody converting an EB to diesel. So I was wondering if anybody out there has done it or knows of any links for tech info. I know ford make some good diesel engines and was wondering if they ever made a 6 cyl diesel? Anybody have any suggestions on other diesel engines?

Ford never made a 6cyl diesel.....least not for the US markets anyhow. You've got choices of the 2.3L 4cyl diesel (kinda rare and not good for what you want to do), the 6.9L diesel, 7.3L non turbo, and the 7.3L turbo. For swapping something in I'd use one that used relatively little electronics to make it easier. The old 12V cummins seems to be pretty popular on diesel swaps. I've never done a swap like that so I don't know everything you'll need for it, but I've done a little research on other vehicles and its not easy or cheap from what I've found.

There is also the small Cummins diesels.... the 3.9L (4-cyl) and the 3.4L (6-cyl).

Some first hand info on a 3.9L in a 72 Bronco:
http://www.broncofix.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=1816

Maybe a slant 6 BMW diesel that came in a Lincoln.

I was talking to Job Rite in Vancouver and they had a used Diesel conversion for sale for $2000cdn. I can't remember the type of engine but it was out of a Hino 5t.

I don't want to start arguments here but you might want to look at the 6.5 GMC diesel, they're common, lighter wieght and are a common conversion in other parts of the world.

If it fits in a FJ40, it fits in a EB right? :D The only part that's wrong is the reference to the SM420. Its actually the SM465 that has the 5.125" index.

The best diesel swap into an FJ40 I've ever seen is the Isuzu 3.9l diesel, model number 4BD1T. Two of its applications were in Isuzu NPR series cab-forward trucks, and LINK-BELT LS2700CII (4BDIT). I also believe it was used in the GM Forward 3000-4000 series trucks. There are two paths for putting an Isuzu diesel into a Land Cruiser. The first involves a factory Isuzu adapter bellhousing. It is designed to mate any SAE #3 flywheel cover to a GM manual transmission with a 5.125" bore (SM420). The bellhousing bears the casting number WF 150015. Unfortunately, this bellhousing has recently been discontinued. There are still some around--try your local Isuzu dealer. A better option is an adapter ring. I have yet to locate a commercial source for these--the one I've seen was made years back by a company that has since gone out of business. The ring allows a GM bellhousing with a 350 bolt pattern to be attached to an SAE #3 flywheel cover. Using the adapter ring, it would be possible to attach the 4BD1T directly to a Toyota transmission with an Advance adapter Chev->Toyota bellhousing.

I've swapped in a Cummins 4BTA into my 72 EB. Where ya located? Another member here has one in his LC, I think it is. DieselCrusierHead is his name. The one that was linked to you at another site should be Barry. His is a 4BT in a 68 or 69 EB.

Edit: oops, just checked the link and that was conversation about mine from some time back. Since that thread though I was contacted by a fella down in Georgia that was interested in doing one. His is the 68 or 69 that I referred to. PM me if you're interested in the swap and I'll give you a call or you can call me, if you're interested in the more detailed info.

I would really like the power of a v8 but the 6.9 liter sounds a little big and it also sounds like it would defeat the main purpose of getting diesel (gas mileage).

Does anybody no if the 6cyl. cummins would work?

I also really like the idea of the cummins 4bta. I know it a good engine and it has quite a bit of power for its size, but the only thing is that it is really loud. I think I can deal with that though. So I guess my next question is that the cummins engines are gm bellhousings. I figure I could use a NV3550 wich is a good tranny with for gm but will it affect what t-case I would want. I mean aren't all the t-cases that bolt up to it passenger side drop (FYI I have always had a toyota and I am kinda guessing on this). Also going from a v8 to a 4 cyl will that offset my orginal location for my t-case.

Just for future planning I plan on running portal axles. and I can get them with the diff 6" off centered to the driverside. I know that the portals have problems with the stock bronco v8's in hitting the oil pan, but I really don't forsee a problem witha 4cyl. unless the engine is just so tall that I have set low and it will run into d-shafts.

Thank you in advanced

Side note: I just sold my cruiser yesterday morning and that night I bought a 71 Bronco. The body completely solid with just a few small spots of surface rust. It needs a new interior and a motor. Other than that its pretty much complete.

I think with the 5.9 cummins you would have to put some sort of doghouse in the cab for clearance. Hell all the big blocks i've seen in EB's have had clearance issues due to their length, a 6cyl cummins would give even more issues I would assume.

I think the 3.9L is the way to go.

The Ford (6.9/7.3 IDI) diesels are big and heavy. Physically about the size of a 460, and a hefty ~850lbs. The GM (6.2/6.5L NA) diesel is ~650lbs, and not much larger than a SBC. You should be able to get 15-20 mpg, or more, with either of them depending on what you do for gearing and transmission.

The 6BT5.9 Cummins (ala Dodge) is no small engine either. The '93 I measured was exactly 36" from the back of the head to front of the crank balancer. Weighs ~950lbs. Its quite tall too. The 4BT3.9 is the same height, only two less cylinders, and ~750lbs.

The Cummins 6AT3.4 is about the size of a typical straight-six gasser, and under 700lbs. (Also similar in size to the Nissan SD33.) I've heard about one of these swapped into a Scout that pulled in 26 mpg ;)

You might be able to use the NV3550 behind the 6AT or the non-turbo GM, but I wouldn't give it long. You should be shooting for NP435, T19, SM465, NV4500, ZF 5/6-speed, etc... and even consider a medium-duty trans like a Clark, Fuller, or Spicer.

GM t-cases were pass. drop for SFA trucks, and drivers drop for IFS trucks.

sounds like the 6at wouldn't be a bad choice. I am pretty sure it gets better power output than the 4 bt, probably about the same if not better gas mileage. I assume that it will be shorter in height than 4bt. I guess the only question is whether it will fit in lenght. Didn't some broncos come with a straight 6's?

Does anybody know the gear ratio for the ZF's?

Something that I have been looking into the last couple of hours is the SD33T It seems like a really good motor. It has about 20hp than the Cummins AT, but from what I hear it is slighly smaller than the 6at, meaning that it would probably fit better.

Does anybody know what the size of an EB bronco engine bay as compared to the Scout II engine bay, specifically in length?

The SD33T has a bel housing that fit a T19 tranny to it, does anybody know what other trannies will fit this bellhousing? I am looking for a 5spd, so...

Man this isn't a very active board

Maybe ask about the SD33 (and compatible trannies) in the Scout forum. Binder Bulletin is another place for such questions. ;)

Alright

Let's say that I go with the 6at. Does anybody know the length dimension of the bronco engine bay? Does anybody know of anybody doing this swap?

What happens if I decide to go with the NV4500? I mean I think the only t-cases that are built for that tranny are passeger side drop (is this true?).

Comments please

Thank you

All factory NV4500 applications (GM and Dodge) have a driver's side drop t-case. They include NP241, NP241HD, BW1370, BW4401, and BW4470. GM is 32-spline, Dodge is 23 or 29 spline.

That said, a pass. drop NP241 or NP208 (32-spline version) from an SFA Chevy will also bolt on.

I think the GM 6.2L route is probably the cheapest, and lowest hassle option.

Originally posted by isozelmonic
Alright

Let's say that I go with the 6at. Does anybody know the length dimension of the bronco engine bay? Does anybody know of anybody doing this swap?

What happens if I decide to go with the NV4500? I mean I think the only t-cases that are built for that tranny are passeger side drop (is this true?).

Comments please

Thank you

Get off your hip and buy an Atlas. You can get whatever drop you want with it.
As far as this not being a very active board.....just how much info do you think is out there on diesel swaps into EB's? Go to any of the diesel sites....Turbodieselregister, Thedieselstop, Diesel-central.......you will find very little info anywhere.

You guys are right on the money with your info... 4BT is more powerful than a 6AT. 6AT is a decent engine though, good for a street driven rig (smooth, quiet but still has diesel nuts) but not very powerful especially compared to the B series. 4BT lound and rattly. Most 4BTs and 6AT have Chevy bolt pattern, most 6BT's have SAE #3 (round and different from Chevy), SD33-T is totally underpowered and is SAE #4 (aka rare & hard to find adapters for). If it were me, in a EB I'd do the 6AT (they are cheaper too) or a 4BT. 4BT is well documented indeed... In my cruiser I had to hack the body instead of doing a body lift. I hear it's much easier in a bronco. All NP241s are similar except Dodge is clocked for Dodge trans and Chevy works with chevy. AKA you can't put a Chevy t-case on a Dodge version trans (NV4500 for example) or you could but you would have to drill the tailghousing (not too bad though). I ended up using an early Dodge NP241 from a '87 V8 1500, passenger side, to the tailhousing of a 23 spline NV4500. Worked great and let me keep my passenger side diff where I like it :D Almost all NP241s switched to drivers drop in about 1991. Someone said it before and was right, Chevy IFS 241s are drivers, SFA are pass drop. 241 is a sweet case (though of course an Atlas beats it hands down. But for $250, in my case, at 2.72:1 I think was the best bang for the buck. Dodge NP241 is also bolt on yoke, not a slip yoke like a Chevy model making it more attractive.

Hope all of this helps... There is another guy off PBB who called me the other day, same thing 4BT in a EB, which is a sweet setup. 4BT has 107 hp and ~300 ft/lbs of torque. Mine is not a 4BTA but is rated for 120hp and a little more than 300 ft/lbs and it knocks the socks off my 6000lb FJ55 with 35's soon to be 37's... It is a sweet engine, just loud (not super loud though) and rattly.

Some related threads:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=201165&highlight=4bt

http://forum.ih8mud.com/index.php?board=12;action=display;threadid=10058
http://forum.ih8mud.com/index.php?board=12;action=display;threadid=9769

Then there are a bunch (and the real experts are over there anyways) at turbodieselregister.com

Good luck...

dieseltruckresource.com too


As to the conversion the 4BT uses the same basic inline pump as the 6BT you're nuts to go any other route. NV4500 out of a dodge using a dodge bellhousing and dodge adapter plate. really simple clean setup hydraulic clutch, AA makes a drive gear to take the big 29 spline dodge output shaft in a Dana 300. Pretty easy, then its all motor mounts and 3 wires.

Ford never made a 6cyl diesel.....least not for the US markets anyhow.

Actually.... Ford made 6 cyl diesels from the late 50s/early 60s through the 90s. Sold in USA in the tractor and industrial equipment line, recieved a turbo in the 70s, and were put into medium duty trucks:F/B/C series in the late 80s/early 90s through 99-2000?. They were reliable and had a good reputation, but when Ford abandoned the tractor business and then the truck business to concentrate on city slicker pickups and soccer mom SUVs, the 6 cyl diesel went away... (sound of Henry Ford rolling in grave).

Those 6-cyl Ford diesels are often called "Brazillian". (since they're made in Brazil). I've seen them in the late-80s/90s "Cargo" series cabovers. The smallest ones are about the size of a B5.9 Cummins. About 94-95 or so they ditched them and went Cummins. I think that was the end of the Brazillians.

If it was my truck, I wouldn't even consider an SD33. I'm not sure where you heard they were a good motor, but the SD33T turbo version is known for cracking heads, blowing gaskets, etc.. I would say that they are running at the ragged edge of the design's capability.

The NA versions are more reliable maybe, but 60-70hp is pretty anemic for a truck, hmmm ??

You should go to Binder Bulletin forums for lotsa info on SD33's.

http://www.binderbulletin.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=5

ps; like someone else said, the only thing available is an SAE #4...which is real common on forklifts (where the SD33 came from), but very rare in the medium-truck world.

The 6.9 is actually a great motor overall. Stay away from the 82-83 years....they had a block-crack problem next to the starter, where the block-heater was. They fixed that in '84. (double-check that 'fixed' year before you buy...I'm going from memory here).

A 6.9 NA will run 300k miles easy between rebuilds. The engine also responds well to adding a turbo, but a MILD one! Like 12psi MAX. Don't try to boost it 25psi or you'll be buying a new one.

A lot of people consider the 80's Ford trucks underpowered, but the F350 4x4 is a 6,800 lb truck. Put a 6.9 in a bronco, and it's likely to be a little peppier, hmmm?

Best source of 6.9 info on the web:

http://forums.thedieselstop.com/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=UBB29&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31


I didn't realize the 6.2 was 200 lbs lighter than the 6.9 ! Thanks for posting that info. Is that true of the 6.5 then too?


The BT Cummins are pretty tall....can't beat 'em tho, if you can fit it.

That BMW motor runs like a swiss watch, but I don't know how well it responds to hop-ups. Also, there were VERY few sold in the US. A few Lincolns, a few Beemers, and that's it, as far as I know. Parts? shudder... :D

The Mercedes 5-cyl turbo's from the 300SD's are great little motors....the later years ran about 110-120hp I think. Doesn't have the torque of the Cummins BT of course...

The last couple years of 300SD production actually used a 6-cyl motor, rated at 145 HP....but had terrible trouble with bent rods and cracked heads. I believe MB did fix both problems, but you'd want to be damn sure you got the right year...or that an older-year 6-cyl was FOR SURE updated...

That Isuzu NPR motor is a good one. There's a 6-cyl version too...160hp I think....but given the size/weight, why not just do the Cummins 6 ? More power, lotsa mods, and easier parts. Another good one is the Iveco, but I'll bet parts are harder to come by than the Isuzu.

If you really want a screamer, put a Detroit 4-53 turbo in there :D

Thanks to everyone who's posted info here....I didn't know about that rule-of-thumb on drop-side of the GM t-cases. Cool... I'm very interested in diesel stuff, and it's real tough to match up trannies etc.. I appreciate you guys sharing what you've learned.

there is a 2.8L powerstroke out now. its a 4 banger. if i remember correctly it has like 135 hp and 275 ft/lbs. they are in the southamerican rangers. but you can get them. Rover special vehicles is the US distributor. they make custom defender 90's for the army with the 2.8 in them. a brand new one would be 7700 including the intercooler, glow plugs, ect.

Andrew

Like i said using the dodge engine plate and dodge bellhousing the nv4500 will bolt up to the 4BT food for thought, simplicity, KISS. and parts are easily gotten, but truth be known ive got 300k on my 6bt and havent had to replace a single part just oil and filters.

And cost wise you can pick up a 4BT out of a delivery van for 1500-2000 with a chevy bell and tranny from ebay

Power mods are cheap since it shares all the same design specs as the 6bt. Recently on DTR somebody was talking about a 4BT that was clicking 250+ HP and 450 ft/lbs and getting 30-35 mpg running 3.55 gears, NV4500, D300 4:1 and 35 inch tires on a scout.


D

If you really want a screamer, put a Detroit 4-53 turbo in there :D



I know a guy in WI that has one in a 70's chevy crew cab dually wrecker, bad ass... :smokin: Fills up the whole damn engine bay though..

Here at OSU we have a VM 4cyl turbo D in an explorer that we run for future truck comp and with a small adapter have it mounted to m5od. It is a cool little motor that we run on bio deisel and hybrid electric, they are thinking about sticking in the libertys. great engineering, and pretty powerful

i have two BMW diesel engines i'll let go cheap if interested?

i have two BMW diesel engines i'll let go cheap if interested?

from mark VII's?
those use the normal SBF bellhousing don't they?

guys.. you are forgetting the 350 olds diesel. 81+ years are quite reliable, produce like 130hp and 200+ lbs of torque. Not to mention the fact that you could probably find one for free, and it is the same size as a 350 Olds rocket.

I had one in an '83 delta 88, and I got 22-23 mpg all around town..

it is a sick thought, that is why I had to mention it :)

i have two BMW diesel engines i'll let go cheap if interested?


How much is cheap??

guys.. you are forgetting the 350 olds diesel.

Given all the BS, lies, and ignorance that usually accompanies the 6.2L, it wouldn't surprise me if that 350 is a half-decent engine.

A possibly free V8 engine that does away with carburetion and spark ignition all in one shot while getting better economy. Who'd have thunk it?

Have a peek at http://www.olds-diesel.com

... and some key info regarding head gaskets/bolts here:
http://members.tripod.com/~A350Diesel/faqs.html

Some more tech here:
http://members.tripod.com/~A350Diesel/tech.html

They had their problems, but I think if they are properly cared for, they'll last for a long time...

I am part of ECBR and one of our members has recently converted his EB to a diesel. He got the motor from a Frito Lay truck and he was lucky to have it backed by a TH400 tranny. all he had to do was get the 4wd tailshaft and hook up his 205. he said he only had 2 problems...when he first got it running in the EB he couldn't get it to warm up to operating temp so it was running rough, he now runs no radiator just a coiled up heater hose to dissipate very little heat and the second problem is he bought the motor that is not internally balanced so it rattles everything off. Damn it sounds good too!

-cutts-

edit: here's a short vid of how loud it is http://www.gcabo.com/images/witc04/witc261.mpg

I've still got lots of time to plan for my conversion.

I like the power/simplicity/parts availability of the Cummins 4BT. However I would be willing to trade some of that for a much quieter engine. What do you guys consider the quietest deisels that would be a good fit and provide decent torque for an Early Bronco that will be driven cross country a lot and be doing some mountain snow off-roading as well?

Isuzu? Toyota? BMW? Please...chime in...