Which helps out a rock crawler more, "super" gearing or "super" articulation?

"Super" gearing is the 100 plus to 1 range.
"Super" articulation is link suspension type flex.

Obviously, there is the famous "overkill" gearing of 400 plus to 1 and the "overkill" articulation of 4+ feet of droop.

I really like having both myself.:cool:

Originally posted by EricFJ40
I really like having both myself.:cool:

True. But like most things, it costs $$$$ to do either :( (Go figure)

Just curious what the "hard core" people think on the subject:rasta:

Originally posted by Lil'John


True. But like most things, it costs $$$$ to do either :( (Go figure)

Just curious what the "hard core" people think on the subject:rasta:

Not really. Flex is very cheap if you have the know how (I mean like less than $100). Gearing can be done fairly cheap if you know what to do (less than $500).

Anyway, go for both. I have alot of flex but do have other problems because I am not geared low enough.

I thought you already had the gearing....my thoughts are for the flex, contact with power you go and no contact and all power and your stuck!

Originally posted by Curtis


Not really. Flex is very cheap if you have the know how (I mean like less than $100).

True... but for a quality job/parts(in regards to a link suspension), it costs:( I've been running a Spring over for a while and have been fairly happy with it.

Originally posted by Curtis

Gearing can be done fairly cheap if you know what to do (less than $500).

Unfortunately, this is vehicle dependant :( It is cheaper/easier to get 100 to 1 gearing in a Yota minitruck than in a Land Cruiser:D

Obviously flex and gearing are not the only thing for a rock crawler but I rate them fairly high(and didn't want to start the "which locker is better" poll:p )

Originally posted by coyote
I thought you already had the gearing....


No comment:D Actually, I'm putting the gearing on the back burner for some more development(and to speed my Cruiser to recovery for the summer)...I might do a "complete" change that could score me choices of ~60 to 1, ~200 to 1, or ~400 to 1 in a nice compact 8 inch long box:eek:

Originally posted by coyote
my thoughts are for the flex, contact with power you go and no contact and all power and your stuck!

True... unfortunately, lockers(spools) kind of kill this reasoning:(

I pick spools :flipoff2:
Super gearing is the ticket in the rocks by far! You will end up with far less body and drivetrain damage with super gearing.

too many variables
:flipoff2:

The only two "variables" I see are super gearing and super flex.

But to be "totally" specific, lets talk about two vehicles that are identical except one has super gearing(moderate flex) while the other has super flex(40-50 to 1 gearing) This means that the base vehicle, axles, tires, weight, engine, lockers, height, etc are exactly the same. The only thing to change between the two is a "gear reduction" on one and a "well designed" link suspension.

Surely someone has an opinion on which is of more benefit.... this is POR, the home of the highly opinionated:D :D :D Maybe I should have asked the which locker is better question:p :p

It's so close I don't think you can pick one over the other. Having the ability to crawl and not gas it gives you better traction and control (gearing). Having the ability to keep your tires on or near the ground gives you better traction and control (susp). I'd probably go with the gearing first, but it's a hard choice if you can only do one or the other. Throw a locker into the equation (which I know you're not trying to do) and I'd definately go with gearing over suspension.

Easy

Im currently Open-Open, but i get sooo much flex and wheel travel, that i hardly ever have a need for a locker, except when the rocks are slick with mud/dirt or water, sometimes it would be nice, but for the most part i can get to the same places, most people when i get to the top of any trail always ask if im locked, and i say no, they get some dumb founded look on their faces, also it depends on the driver, its 80% driver 20% vehicle :)

Since both hypothethical base vehicles have lockers, I would take the vehicle with the gearing. I think you will do less damage to the vehicle, less wrenching, with low gearing and medium flex. I truck that flexs great but can not go really slow will break more shit on the trail. Can you imagine the hammers with 40 - 50 :1 and a manual box, hello broken parts, smoked clutch broken tie rod .....

also dont forget about other factors, such as engine size, tire heighth, clearance, vehicle body heighth, auto or manual, etc etc...

Too many varibles is right. When is flex , super flex?
A TJ with a 4" trailmaster does 1000 on a 23 degree ramp.
What is too much flex? I have seen many 1/4 eliptic suspensions fail many obsticles because of toooo much flex.
What about ballanced flex? If your front end doesn't flex worth a shat, then the rear is just for show.

What about gearing? When does 100 + stick become better than 80:1 with an automatic?

What about lockers? I would rather have lockers than flex.

Basically for a good alround trail truck, IMHO, you need ballanced suspension, lockers, and good gearing. Its silly to just do one!!!!:smokin:

there are WAY to many variables but.......... I vote for flex. I have seen Yota trucks with a 4" lift and 33's go so many place open front and rear. They had good flex and just didnt lift a tire. Yes you need both but to me a good working suspension does wonders for traction.

If you have no lockers, flex is more important because it will (theoretically anyway) keep the tires on the ground.

If you have lockers, gearing plays a more important role--not only in giving you more control, but also in that the reduced gearing gives you more thoretical torque to turn all four tires at the same time in low-traction situations.

Still, this just illustrates the point that you can't consider one mod apart from the vehicle as a whole.

Jake

I have seen super geared flat fenders with next to no flex rock on the trail. I have both and they both help but there are many other things to make a good trail rig. If I had my choice of either I would choose gears. They make the trail less abusive. you can always take lines that don't require major flex.
joe

In your original post you asked about super gearing or super flex. No mention was made of lockers, so my comments are based on being locked front and rear.

I selected super gearing. You rig will be much more controlable in the rocks and you will be less likely to break vital parts. You will be able to "work" the rig through an obstacle rather than try and blast your way through.

Of course, both flex and gearing is the ultimate :skull:

Well, I don't know much, but I kinda like both on my pile. Limited flex but more than perhaps most, and pretty decent gearing for my tire size and engine power, about 180:1 with all the three cases in low. With my 4 banger I just lack the power to turn big meats so crawling up things would be impossible without gearing. I would tend to say that for those of us going light i.e. small engines, gearing is key rather than flex. At least if you want to run the big tires. You might have unlimited travel but if you can't get up something because you lack the power to turn the big tires, so what! Take a look at ARCA rigs, lots of them aren't running incredibly flexy suspensions (the guy who took first place in the series last year) but they are running big motors with decent gearing. I'd go with gearing first and suspension craziness later.

Thanks for all the input.

I've already got a set plan for my rig so this wasn't a "make my rig" type post. My target is for balanced articulation and about 120-150 to 1 super low.

I was curious about the thought process people used in picking one or the other:p

Obviously, lockers, etc do play a large roll in rock crawling as many has pointed out(but I didn't want to bring up lockers because I've seen previous locker posts:D)

Id go for Flex...keeping the tires on the ground is more important than gearing...Im running 33's with stock gearing still and have not had a problem on anytrail I have been on.....but too much can be bad too!

I like gears. It doesn't matter if you're two wheeling through a section as long as you go slow and don't stop abruptly.

Flex only helps an un-locked truck so much. The tire may be touching, but there still may not be enough traction there to keep it from sucking all of the power.

And if the trucks were locked then both the two-wheels-touching and the eye-popping-droop trucks will favor equally. Throw gears into one of them and suddenly one of the trucks looks like there is a professional driver behind the wheel.

gearing..

to those of you who have gearing and being locked mixed up...whatever. :rolleyes:

You can usually pick different lines, but you can't always pick a lower gear.

I have practically no flex, but even the slightest changes in my flex have increased my potential grounds to cover.

If both vehicles have lockers, my vote is hands down for the gearing. Lockers reduce the need for articulation considerably. I have seen many o stiffies that are unstoppable becasue of their low gearing.

If both vehciles are running open diffs, it would be a tough call but I think my vote would still be for the gearing.

Without a question, no matter what the variables.

100:1+ gearing and no flex will get you pretty much wherever you want to go. Might lift a tire, but you'll keep going.

Ton's of flex and 30:1, might get you some places, but you'll loose a kidney and your sheetmetal gettin' there at umteen mph!