Have factory d44 front but was interested in seeing what my options are for hi steer. How difficult,how much $$$$$$$$$.

I'm getting mine from Wagoner Machine Shop... they make for both 44s and for 60s. These guys are all hardcore wheelers, I think the smallest rig there is a brand new TJ on 39.5" tires...
most of their rigs are on 44s... anyways... check out:

http://www.wagonermachine.com

Parts Mike sells the 8 bolt Scout 44 flat tops.
He also has the 44 steering arms for $160 a pair.

Originally posted by Brawler
Have factory d44 front but was interested in seeing what my options are for hi steer. How difficult,how much $$$$$$$$$.

Come Awn Brawler, how bout a search man :flipoff2: I know we've discussed it before. Come awn you can do it, hit the search button.

2 hundy for the arms
1/2 a buck for hardware
hundy for the new drag and you're done

Do you have a phone #. Does anyone have any good pics so i can see what it looks like?





Originally posted by Scout Dude
Parts Mike sells the 8 bolt Scout 44 flat tops.
He also has the 44 steering arms for $160 a pair.

Originally posted by Brawler
Do you have a phone #. Does anyone have any good pics so i can see what it looks like?



Here, let me help.

I just posted pictures two days ago..

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14397

I HAVE hI-STEER:flipoff2: but don't have any pics:( Street rig or trailer queen?

Trailered rig. The one Fat City built for me.




Originally posted by Scoutillac
I HAVE hI-STEER:flipoff2: but don't have any pics:( Street rig or trailer queen?

talk to ben (moderator), he can set you up!!!


you running Scout or Ford outers?? As we were finding out, it is hard to get a nice set-up with Scout outers... the are so much farther in than the ford/gm ones....

I'm out of arms, probably won't have any more for a little while.

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite
talk to ben (moderator), he can set you up!!!


you running Scout or Ford outers?? As we were finding out, it is hard to get a nice set-up with Scout outers... the are so much farther in than the ford/gm ones....


Stock scout d44s all the way end to end. When i get my camera back from the lendie i'll post a pic of the drag link Eric built for me. I'm not worried about it's strength or anything really, just seems it would be better to have less Z. Mostly toying with the idea but i do appreciate all the input.

Originally posted by Ben W
I'm out of arms, probably won't have any more for a little while.

well, you'll have the first couple prototypes I send back to you....


but then he is running all Scout stuff.... so he would run ito the same problems.....

I too am wanting to go hysteer, but I am having a bit of a dilema.....I emailed several places that have or can build a kit for me, but the quoted prices are ridiculous. I am hearing prices in the $1200 range, which seems steep to me. There must me a more affordable way to do it? I would say to hell with it and swap out my whole front end, but about 3 or 4 months ago I threw on a Warn hub conversion kit, new hubs, brakes rotors, etc.....and depending on what axle I would swap in, those new part would be put at a big loss to me........

DAMN CLOSED KNUCKLES!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Dingo
I too am wanting to go hysteer, but I am having a bit of a dilema.....I emailed several places that have or can build a kit for me, but the quoted prices are ridiculous. I am hearing prices in the $1200 range, which seems steep to me. There must me a more affordable way to do it? I would say to hell with it and swap out my whole front end, but about 3 or 4 months ago I threw on a Warn hub conversion kit, new hubs, brakes rotors, etc.....and depending on what axle I would swap in, those new part would be put at a big loss to me........

DAMN CLOSED KNUCKLES!!!!!!!!!

Don't you hate it when you spend all the time and money building up something and then you finally realize that it's a turd? :flipoff2: Go find a Chevy 44 and ditch the front axle. Put in a 14 bolt in the rear. :)

I just got my 74-75 1/2 ton IH 8 bolt flattops yesterday in the mail, $25.00 apiece from a guy back east so next is to get some highsteer arms (Ben when will you have some made up) It will be nice to get all my steering back Lock to lock.

Damnit I was planning on using a ford rc44 but all this talk about the chevy front has got me reconsidering now.Can somebody give me quick run down on usung the chevy 44??:)

Originally posted by R O
Damnit I was planning on using a ford rc44 but all this talk about the chevy front has got me reconsidering now.Can somebody give me quick run down on usung the chevy 44??:)

Ah bolt it up and go. You'll need hi-steer arms, and a new drag link. Drag link here<------------ (http://www.spidertrax.com)

Originally posted by Dingo
I too am wanting to go hysteer, but I am having a bit of a dilema.....I emailed several places that have or can build a kit for me, but the quoted prices are ridiculous. I am hearing prices in the $1200 range, which seems steep to me. There must me a more affordable way to do it? I would say to hell with it and swap out my whole front end, but about 3 or 4 months ago I threw on a Warn hub conversion kit, new hubs, brakes rotors, etc.....and depending on what axle I would swap in, those new part would be put at a big loss to me........

DAMN CLOSED KNUCKLES!!!!!!!!!

Closed knuckles? In a '72?? Those were finished in '71 with the 800B!

Anyhow..

$1200 isn't totally outrageous. Depends on what's included.

You have $300-ish just for the new tie-rod and draglink, give or take.

Arms can be as high as $125 each (from TriCounty Gear they are).. now you're up to $600, plus the stud kit (at least $20 per side)

Then there's the knuckle issue.. new ones? No idea. Old ones? TriCounty sold me a used stock knuckle, machined for the studs, for 4125. Double that (you want two, right?) for $250.

$300 in rods
$250 in arms
$250 in knuckles
Plus misc. $800+

That doesn't count brakes.. or stub shafts (if you go to Ford parts) or spindle or..

Originally posted by R O
Damnit I was planning on using a ford rc44 but all this talk about the chevy front has got me reconsidering now.Can somebody give me quick run down on usung the chevy 44??:)

Like jdjanda said..

Putting a Chevy front end in is a piece of cake.

Especially if you're going to a 60 rear and 8-lug with "just" an SOA.

Buy Chevy axle, bring it home.

Remove Scout axle. Flip center pins.

Slide Chevy axle under.

Fab new U-bolt plates, get new U-bolts, bolt Chevy axle in.

Get 2wd Chevy brake hoses and some steel brake line and a new "T" block and replace the line from the driver's side hardline to flexible fitting to the passenger side (it's easiest this way) and bolt up the Chevy flexible lines. Better yet, relocate the fixed mount for the hardlines down to the bump stop bracket - you'll need it for the flex.

Have you front driveshaft lengthened about an inch. OR.. if you yanked out a Dana 30, just keep the old stock driveshaft and run it.

If you run a 4spd, you could also use a 727 front driveshaft.

Fab shock mounts.

Install high-steer arm on passenger knuckle, new custom draglink (you need the right taper for the steering arm, and it'll need to be about 3" longer than a stock SIi unit).

Go play.

You could always retube the Ford HP44 with Chevy axle tubes and do just about the same thing, but you'll need to grind a perch into the Ford housing.

The Chevy front swap was one of the easiest things I did on my race truck.

-Tom

Originally posted by tsm1mt


Like jdjanda said..

Putting a Chevy front end in is a piece of cake.

Especially if you're going to a 60 rear and 8-lug with "just" an SOA.

Buy Chevy axle, bring it home.

Remove Scout axle. Flip center pins.

Slide Chevy axle under.

<SNIP>

The Chevy front swap was one of the easiest things I did on my race truck.

-Tom


yes, it is that simple, if you don't deal with drive-line and caster issues.... Not to mention if you have a RS then your springs will be angled even more (uless you have a huge lift asssociated with your RS).

*I* have done two chevy-front SO swaps now. One in Hooper's rig (technical adviser) and recently mine. In both we pointed the pinion at the t-case to avoid drivline binding (even Tom will tell you that his un-cut Chevy has HORABLE drive line angles). On Hooper's we put 7º shims on the stock pads (welded them), should have gone 8º, plus a cut-n-turn (and narrow because we are both using stock Scout II shafts). On mine, because of my RS, I used the same 7º shims, PLUS ground the trailing edge of the perch down 1/4" to turn it up even more. Its still a *little* low from ideal... but I'll play with that later.



so, it *can* be as easy as slap it under.... but if you want to set it up... its more work. But not that hard.


FYI, a RC D44 is my next progect. More work, but short of re-tubing, the same work.


-mark

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite



yes, it is that simple, if you don't deal with drive-line and caster issues....


You don't HAVE to with the Chevy front end *IF* you're just running a plain-old-SOA. No RS, no extended shackles, no lift springs.

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite


Not to mention if you have a RS then your springs will be angled even more (uless you have a huge lift asssociated with your RS).


Right, with an RS you'll encounter problems.. just like I have. :D

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite




In both we pointed the pinion at the t-case to avoid drivline binding (even Tom will tell you that his un-cut Chevy has HORABLE drive line angles). On

Actually, the angle wasn't that bad before the RS.

It was pretty much equal and opposite and close enough "as-is" that I didn't bother changing it.

No driveshaft binding, though it IS a 727 truck with a slightly longer front 'shaft than a 4spd.

Using a full 12" of travel at the shocks/spring vs. bump stop NO problems. No broken U-joints.

No idea how bad it would vibrate at speed.. I never noticed. My 4" lifted trail Scout has vibrations from the front driveshaft thanks to the angle.

Funny.. the 4" Skyjacker rig w/ a 4spd has a problem with ripping zerk fittings off the U-joints, while the SOA 727 race Scout didn't.

Now, with the RS on the racer, I had to remove the zerk fittings because the driveshaft was binding, and the pinion IS aimed at the dirt.

I have some 6 deg shims to throw in it when I put the new front end under just to relieve the angle some.

I haven't decided if I'm cutting the RS towers off and lengthening them to keep the springs away from the pitman arm, or if Mark'll find a good flat pitman arm solution that won't require modifying the suspension.

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite



FYI, a RC D44 is my next progect. More work, but short of re-tubing, the same work.


-mark

Y'know, my fear is just when I get the RC44 built I'll find a good deal on a 60.. :D

-Tom

When you guys are saying a Chevy axle swap, whcih axle are you talking about.....1/2 ton, 3/4 ton??? I don't really know too much about them, but isn't the 6 lug (1/2 ton) a bit narrower than the 3/4? Might be wrong about that...........

I am starting to think this will be the easier way to go.......and I can gain some width.

Originally posted by Dingo
When you guys are saying a Chevy axle swap, whcih axle are you talking about.....1/2 ton, 3/4 ton??? I don't really know too much about them, but isn't the 6 lug (1/2 ton) a bit narrower than the 3/4? Might be wrong about that...........

I am starting to think this will be the easier way to go.......and I can gain some width.

1/2T or 3/4T.. not much difference.

I run a 5 on 5.5 Chevy 1/2T front Dana 44.

There's something like a 1-2" difference in width from the 6-lug to 8-lug with the 5 on 5.5 in the middle.

The actual diff housing, axle shafts, etc. are all the same.

Originally posted by Dingo
When you guys are saying a Chevy axle swap, whcih axle are you talking about.....1/2 ton, 3/4 ton??? I don't really know too much about them, but isn't the 6 lug (1/2 ton) a bit narrower than the 3/4? Might be wrong about that...........

I am starting to think this will be the easier way to go.......and I can gain some width.

Depends on if you are an IH purist, I'm a purist, so I'm going to run IH T-all axles. I think someone else here will be selling their setup in the near future. Might be the answer you are looking for. If you swap the front you'll want to also do the rear, you don't have to, but what's the point of going to a wider front if you leave the rear the same width, you'll still put the ass-end into tree's rocks and crap.

I think someone else here will be selling their setup in the near future. Might be the answer you are looking for.


Yep.....I PMed him a little bit ago after I read his post.
thanks.;)

Originally posted by jdjanda


Depends on if you are an IH purist, I'm a purist, so I'm going to run IH T-all axles.

Perhaps you wandered over to the wrong BBS if you're a purist.. Are you lost little boy? :flipoff2:

I guess that means you won't be running a Dana 60 front EVER.. :flipoff2:

I was going to use a T'all or truck front, but couldn't find a complete enough one at the time.

Go figure, it was a snap to buy a Chevy or Ford front end.. and parts are cheaper, too. :D