I'm currently thrashing mine. Been awhile since I posted here, so hello my old friends and you newbies :flipoff2:

I pulled the T18/20 out of a 77 J20. It's now behind a TBI350 in my YJ on 38's. I'm tired of the output shaft contravercy. I'm getting conflicting reports. I kept the 20 in, well hell, it was on it and I did'nt have the cash for an Atlas (still dont). Me and a similar buddy are wondering if it's worth it to throw low gears in the 20 and mabe harden the output shaft, but some tell us they are junk. Break all the time. Other guys say the 23spline output 20's are almost bulletproof. What gives?

Any you lads have impressions, first hand knowledge or other ideas? Thanks.

ps. I've been beating the piss out of mine, no problems yet. And yes I carry a spare output shaft. :D

Hey jeff.. I dont know if a jeep 20 is anything like a bronco 20, but the gearset for them is expensive, and they dont work. Im friends with some people at wildhorses in stockton and they keep having the bronco's come back. I say, carry a spare output, it will break sooner or later. and save for an atlas. You will be much happier that way, or steal the one out of keith's :D You did have his jeep sitting there for a while. I finally got my heep back into one piece. It looks a lot better. Oh yeah im off of work til almost march minimum.. Tell me when your home and ill come by. give me a call sometime

209-747-0969

James

I've heard that you can take the gears out of a d18 and put them in the d20, lower and stronger(?). Also, you can take the front off of a d18 and put it on a d20 so you have twin-sticks;)
just a thought.




oh, and Loppy.... :flipoff2:

James. Some time off eh? sweeet. We should hook up and do something. EB and Jeep D20's are somewhat different with bolt patterns and such, but I think the gearset and output shaft are the same. So yeah, that's the word I'm getting off the street. D20's suck butt. Actually, the Terra kit for em is about $650 or so, so it's not a bad price and their easy to install. I'm just trying to avoid polishing a turd.

Hooder - :flipoff2: hehehe. Good to see your still alive and well. When you gunna come down and hang with RPS?

Yeah im off for quite a while, i had surgery on my knee back in december.. Oh yeah a little info that ive heard. the outputs are the weak link at least in the bronco 20's. Just carry a spare and you will be fine until you can buy an atlas. I mean people fun the 20's behind a 302 or 351 all day long, its just depends how stupid you get with bouncin with a lot of power. plus if you do snap your output, it doesnt take long to swap it out

James

Yeah call me, im going nutts sitting at home

are you currently running a fine or soarse spline unit? The coarse are poop, but the fine are "pretty good" Same spline and diameter as a 300 in fact. Lots of people "upgrade" to a 300 with no problems. it all depends on your driving style. I run 38's and soon to be 42's with one and no problems so far. On long trips, Ie moab, hammers etc... I carry a spare tail housing. 5 bolts and you're fixed. I'm not a skinnny pedal junky, but I have been known to do smokey burnouts on dry pavement. I know you can get a deal on the 20's :D so run it till you break a few!!

Hey James...So I take it that you won't be Judging the next Competition with your Knee in that condition. That sux. Are you still going to head down to watch?

--Joel

hey joel.. Id love to judge the compition down in victorville, but i havent heard any news from rich or bob yet.. i thought we were suppose to get together for a meeting or something and get out videos for the compition at lake amador. I dont know if the knee will be up for running around and such up there, but hey, i could probably do it with a knee brace

Aggro/James. Thanks for chime'n in. I appreciate it. Sometimes I feel like when talking about 20's, it's like a wierd taboo subject. Not too many guys know alot about em and all people hear is from a couple of guys that have had bad luck.

Now that I think about it, yeah, the people who have bitched to me about em personally were in EB's. Our 20's are of the 1 1/8", 26 spline variety. And yes that's the same as the stock 300. So I guess they're "alright".

Aggro, so happens I have 3 of em sitting on the side of my house right now. I get em free. Dont ask. hehehe. :D If you end up using that spare and need another, look me up. ;)

Hey Loopy, You guy's still selling the RPS shirts? It has been a long time since they were posted and they didn't have my size back then. Just curious, I would like to get one if they are still available. Sorry I'm no help with the dana 20. :D

I run the tera gears in my 18 and have had good luck with it. I cary an extra output for the rear but havent needed it. I think I am in the same boat as Aggro in that I am not hard on my stuff but sometimes you gadda go what you gadda do. I run RC60's and 39.5's and have blown up the rear once but I really feel it was a bad gear set. I don't know anyone who has broken a 20 and I know alot of wheelers not to say people haven't broken but I don't feel it is a real issue and since you have spares I say spent the $$ else where. Garry a spare output and GET IT.http://www.respite.org/images/cj66dean/wheelie.jpg

Im going to run one in my cruiser, it is of the jeep variety.

Where can I get the fine spline output?

I have the front of the dana18 already for the twinsticks. I asked a while back on the board and everybody sayed it should hold up fine. I will be running a 350 with the th350 in my cruiser. Its a pretty short pretty stout set up. Obviously its not bullet proof but I don't think Ill have a problem. I am contemplating the low gear swap and the fine spline output myself along with a disk brake ebrake from onetoncv.

again if anybody knows an aftermarket source for the fine spline outputs it would be greatly appreciated or if they came stock somewhere that would be cool to.

thanks

arndog

Originally posted by ImKuNfusED
hey joel.. Id love to judge the compition down in victorville, but i havent heard any news from rich or bob yet.. i thought we were suppose to get together for a meeting or something and get out videos for the compition at lake amador. I dont know if the knee will be up for running around and such up there, but hey, i could probably do it with a knee brace

Yeah the last I heard, we were supposed to have a meeting this month....:confused: Anyway, Let me know if you hear anything and I'll let you know if I do also.


Arndog, I have an extra fine spline 20. You interested in buying the whole thing? Let me know: jtkelsey@yahoo.com

I run a 20 with a built 304 T18 and 35's and have never had any problems at all. I have noticed that my output shaft has some pretty good slop up and down. It has been sloppy for a couple years now but it hasn't ever got any worse or busted. Any thoughts?

Is swapping the output shaft a tough trail fix?
Does the whole case have to come down?

loppy,

i have the tera low in mine, i have busted rear driveshafts
but no problems with the t-case. i use the gas as necessary
if i can't crawl it, i push the pedal until it goes

Originally posted by LOPPY

Aggro, so happens I have 3 of em sitting on the side of my house right now. I get em free. Dont ask. hehehe. :D If you end up using that spare and need another, look me up. ;)

I may have to hit you up... Don't know if the deal is still good. I spoke with him a few months ago and have never connected. I have dropped in a few times- when they have been closed! I still have my coarse spline for a spare, but I'd like to get a couple fine splines, I want to cut a few up and see about a doubler setup IN the stock case with 18 gears. I've just been real busy getting my cruzah ready and wheeling. And I can't turn down a snow wheeling offer. spider this weekend!!come awn!

arndog: I run one in my 40. I believe 76 and later had fine spline factory. earlier years have coarse. pull the rear dshaft yoke to find out what you have.

Pmaddy: look at your tcase. The rear output housing is connected by 5) .375 (9/16 head) bolts. This is the spare part to carry. Swap goes like this.-
1 remove front of rear dshaft connections. straps, cv bolts or u bolts.

2 have spare ready to flop in. (gasket and or sealant ready and
necessary)

3 remove 5 bolts on tailshaft with 9/16 wrench.

4 jiggle, wiggle, or smack tailhousing while pulling or prying back
to remove. (they are a tight fit.)

5 insert spare

6 tightem bolts you didn't lose in the snow, rocks, dirt or mud

7 reconnect driveshaft

8 go mosh some more!!!
:beer: :beer: hth

thanks aggro. I now one is already apart and it is coarse for sure. I will take a look at the other one tonight.

Thanks,

arndog

Originally posted by HighHooder
I've heard that you can take the gears out of a d18 and put them in the d20, lower and stronger(?). Also, you can take the front off of a d18 and put it on a d20 so you have twin-sticks;)
just a thought.




oh, and Loppy.... :flipoff2:

Almost. What you need is a few gearsa from a D18, a few from the jeep d20 and one from a bronco d20. It gets you something like a 2.4 low range. And the gears are completely different in the bronco and Jeep type D20's. I don't know why they even call them the same thing. There's a write up http://www.off-road.com/jeep/tech/convxfer/2.46-20/ written by one of the guys in my club.

Actually you don't need the Dana 18 gears at all. I have done two of these swaps just with gears out of the Bronco cases. The right case has to be used, but it can be done. That article tells you to only use the sliding gear from the Bronco case. The first time I did this I had a 18 case and compared the gears in it to the Bronco gears. Guess what, they were the same and even had the same Spicer part numbers on them.

Originally posted by cmegoup
Actually you don't need the Dana 18 gears at all. I have done two of these swaps just with gears out of the Bronco cases. The right case has to be used, but it can be done. That article tells you to only use the sliding gear from the Bronco case. The first time I did this I had a 18 case and compared the gears in it to the Bronco gears. Guess what, they were the same and even had the same Spicer part numbers on them.

That's good to know. Around here the hard part is finding the Bronco D20. The only one I've seen is attached to the neighbors 66;)

WOW! Holy moly Batman, we finally found some fellow 20 freaks!
You guys are stoke'n me. Where have you all been? I've posted this topic before (along time ago) and it was like 20's were made on Mars and only used in submarines. :D This is great!

4BANGERYJ - Well, RPS has been slow lately. List of events: I had second child (now have 2.5 yr old and .5 yr old), our IT guy Kidwired lost his job and the site went down, KStrong fell in love and made a big house move, Putzboy well is just a putz and RYSYJ is just now getting his rig put together. We are still together though and have big plans for the summer to come back alive and well. The site should be back up soon too. I'm sure more shirts and other paraphanalia (sp?) will be available. Stay tuned.... (thanks for the interest! :) )

Again, thanks for all the great info fellas. I think I will give the low gearset a try and carry a spare output, afterall they are super easy to swap. It's no Atlas, but then again, I'm no Bill Gates.

Originally posted by cmegoup
Actually you don't need the Dana 18 gears at all. I have done two of these swaps just with gears out of the Bronco cases. The right case has to be used, but it can be done. That article tells you to only use the sliding gear from the Bronco case. The first time I did this I had a 18 case and compared the gears in it to the Bronco gears. Guess what, they were the same and even had the same Spicer part numbers on them.

This is what I had heard as well. Makes sense, they have the same LR ratio. The big question I'd like to know is why did they make the Jeep D20 different??

Originally posted by LOPPY
I've posted this topic before (along time ago) and it was like 20's were made on Mars and only used in submarines. This is great!

LOL, I just about fell out of my chair when I read that :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

Don't forget about da Binders eh? Look at the latter years of D20 production, say 78-79. There's a guy in Denver claiming he got a new one, as in from Spicer, for $80. He said he got it from MHJR aka Mile High Jeep Rebuilders. Maybe give them a holler, I'm sure they have a web page, to verify. May try a driveline shop too.

Hey Jesse got a source????

Also IH used 20's in the latter years of the small Scout production that had a factory installed twin stick. I believe the one I got was out of an 800A model. So I think thats '67-68 or 69??? The 800 B's had the single level 20's 68 or 69-71.

The 20's a good Tcase. There are millions of them still out there in service, and thousands that get throughly abused regularily. Carry the spare output assembly and go play. The nice thing about the terra gears is they are only 3.15:1. A good ratio but not so deep as to really stress the output like a 4:1 set would. Maybe they planned it that way???

I see you guys talking about pulling an 18 front for the twin stick. Why not make one? It looks super easy to me. There's two plungers running the shifting forks right? Why not make a lever system that would apply one lever to each of the plungers? Will this not work for some reason?

Loppy i already have a Spicer 18 and am looking for a 20 to combine cant seem to find any cheap ones arround here i saw that you have 3 ??? wana sell or donate one ???

Brian

Originally posted by LOPPY
I see you guys talking about pulling an 18 front for the twin stick. Why not make one? It looks super easy to me. There's two plungers running the shifting forks right? Why not make a lever system that would apply one lever to each of the plungers? Will this not work for some reason?

It will work indeed...

I scored a Scout 20 twin stick case with the 2.46 gears installed from http://www.r-p4wd.com/ They don't have this case in stock all the time though, but are a good source for the 2:46 parts and more.

Anyway, after seeing my twin stick setup a friend wanted the same. Having seen how simple it was in design, and having 3 or 4 extra 20's laying around we just fabbed something up using some scrap steel and an extra stick off one of the spare 20's. Simple really, one plunger works the front and the other is the rear. :jeep:

Originally posted by redruM
Loppy i already have a Spicer 18 and am looking for a 20 to combine cant seem to find any cheap ones arround here i saw that you have 3 ??? wana sell or donate one ???

Brian

What are you building? Your sig says 98 TJ. :confused:

Originally posted by LOPPY
I see you guys talking about pulling an 18 front for the twin stick. Why not make one? It looks super easy to me. There's two plungers running the shifting forks right? Why not make a lever system that would apply one lever to each of the plungers? Will this not work for some reason?

Loppy, it would work fine.

Murder spelled backwards= i have a fine spline one that I would like to get ~$125 for it.

Originally posted by LOPPY
I see you guys talking about pulling an 18 front for the twin stick.

Another way to make a twin stick 20 is to use a Scout 20 case and Dana 18 levers. The Scout shifter attachment is exactly like the 18 with a brass pin through the shifter(s). Doing it this way eliminates pulling the front output assy. off of an 18 and putting it on a 20. The junkyards are full of Scout 20's and that's what I use when upgrading them with the 2.46 gearsets. A little modification to the shift rails is all that's necessary to make the twin shifters work.

Originally posted by cmegoup


Another way to make a twin stick 20 is to use a Scout 20 case and Dana 18 levers. The Scout shifter attachment is exactly like the 18 with a brass pin through the shifter(s). Doing it this way eliminates pulling the front output assy. off of an 18 and putting it on a 20. The junkyards are full of Scout 20's and that's what I use when upgrading them with the 2.46 gearsets. A little modification to the shift rails is all that's necessary to make the twin shifters work.

Good Point. There isn't alot of call for the 20's in our neighborhood, but when we put one together I always use the Scout case for this reason. The front output housing, shifter mount and shift rails are a much simpler and easy to use design.

Hell I run one of these Scout 20's in my Heep in the winter for the 2:1 gearing. Lots o wheel speed snow bashing. The Currie twin stick off my IH 300 bolts right on.

There's something to look into. Get yourself 2 20's set them up the same i.e shifter and output. Run one stock 2:1 and one with 3.15:1 using the Terra gears. You have the best of both worlds. Low gears for crawling in the summer and "high" gears for good wheel speed in the winter. Although with a manual transmission this may not be that big of a deal, depends on your set up and engine output. Mine with the slush box and big block works great.

I am using a jeep 20 and a dana 18 front for my twin sticks. All that is needed is a little shift rail modifications and the rest is bolt on. not sure if this is the same as the scout. I guess the only thing I do know is that the scout and jeep 20 shift patterns are slightly different

arndog

Originally posted by LOPPY
WOW! Holy moly Batman, we finally found some fellow 20 freaks!
You guys are stoke'n me. Where have you all been? I've posted this topic before (along time ago) and it was like 20's were made on Mars and only used in submarines. :D This is great!

Hey I'm still part of the D20 crowd too :flipoff2: I just learned about the fine-spline upgrade too so I may look into that. Right now with the screamin' low 2:1 gears ( :rolleyes: ) I haven't had a problem with it, but then again my Heep just sits in a garage and doesn't actually wheel :rolleyes: :( Soon though... very soon... :beer:

Originally posted by redruM
Loppy i already have a Spicer 18 and am looking for a 20 to combine cant seem to find any cheap ones arround here i saw that you have 3 ??? wana sell or donate one ???

Brian

Hey Brian. Wish you were closer :( I'd say come pick one up and leave me a case of Bud. :D Shipping... ugggghhhh. Texas eh? Email me on the addy in my profile, I may be able to hook a bruddah up.

Do you just want the case? If you need one sans output shaft and housing, you pay shipping and throw in enough for a 12 pack for my handling fee, you got it man.

Originally posted by notcrazyjustNuTz


It will work indeed...

I scored a Scout 20 twin stick case with the 2.46 gears installed from http://www.r-p4wd.com/ They don't have this case in stock all the time though, but are a good source for the 2:46 parts and more.

Anyway, after seeing my twin stick setup a friend wanted the same. Having seen how simple it was in design, and having 3 or 4 extra 20's laying around we just fabbed something up using some scrap steel and an extra stick off one of the spare 20's. Simple really, one plunger works the front and the other is the rear. :jeep:

Bingo. Thanks man. I thought so. When the levers are two dimentional, it's a no brainer. They're either in or out. I'm gunna use the mounting "pipe" (for lack of what it's really calld), stick two home made levers fashioned from bar stock on either side, thow a pin at the bottom with bushings, hook up the plungers, done. :D . My dad paid like $120 for his 300 twin stick. I laugh.

Originally posted by Bob Levenhagen
There's something to look into. Get yourself 2 20's set them up the same i.e shifter and output. Run one stock 2:1 and one with 3.15:1 using the Terra gears. You have the best of both worlds. Low gears for crawling in the summer and "high" gears for good wheel speed in the winter. Although with a manual transmission this may not be that big of a deal, depends on your set up and engine output. Mine with the slush box and big block works great.

Not a bad idea Bob. But since I'm run'n Mr. Big (aka T18:D ) and have a very pissed off TBI5.7, mud and snow seem to take flight around my Heap. It really pisses off my buddies... hehehehe..:D :D

Damn good idea though.

Originally posted by LOPPY
WOW! Holy moly Batman, we finally found some fellow 20 freaks!
You guys are stoke'n me. Where have you all been? I've posted this topic before (along time ago) and it was like 20's were made on Mars and only used in submarines. :D This is great!

4BANGERYJ - Well, RPS has been slow lately. List of events: I had second child (now have 2.5 yr old and .5 yr old), our IT guy Kidwired lost his job and the site went down, KStrong fell in love and made a big house move, Putzboy well is just a putz and RYSYJ is just now getting his rig put together. We are still together though and have big plans for the summer to come back alive and well. The site should be back up soon too. I'm sure more shirts and other paraphanalia (sp?) will be available. Stay tuned.... (thanks for the interest! :) )

Again, thanks for all the great info fellas. I think I will give the low gearset a try and carry a spare output, afterall they are super easy to swap. It's no Atlas, but then again, I'm no Bill Gates. Thanks Loppy, I will stay tuned. :D

Yeah Arndog, I hear ya. NO problemo. I know exactly what you're talk'n bout. Dat's da plan. ;)

Eric. How's my old hardtop holding up out there? I know you're in the midts of major renovation. Hope it all chimes in soon bud. Keep that 20! I think we should start 20 enthusiasts club. C'mon guys, whatdaya say. Let's come out of the closet and be PROUD of our 20's!!! :flipoff2:

Mabe not. :rolleyes: In any case, Like I illuded to before, man, very cool of ya'all to chime in. IMHO anyway, turned out to be a very cool thread. :thumbsup:

Originally posted by LOPPY
Eric. How's my old hardtop holding up out there? I know you're in the midts of major renovation. Hope it all chimes in soon bud.

Hardtop looks real nice tucked up in the corner of my garage on a shelf :D Hopefully it'll be back on the Heep soon. I hoped to get far enough this weekend that I could fire up the 401 next weekend, but I had some issues with the YJ steering box mounting location and the CJ grill & radiator (ie. no fawkin' way that'd work, they both occupy the same space) so I spent quite a bit of time figuring out a new steering box mount. At least I got the grill mount fabbed though so as far as the engine is concerned everything is finally secured. Anyway, looks like another 2 weeks until I turn the key.

BTW, I'll be doing the twin-stick on my 20 as well. Bob L. hooked me up with the D18 front so I'll be using that. Otherwise you and I have the same plan. I need to pick up a twin-stick boot sometime...

:beer:

eric,
401 d20 custom efi from columbus, are you my evil jeep twin
we would be a nearly perfect match if you would give up that nasty stickhere is a picture of one way to do the twin stick