Having owned an 88 Xcab before my 88 Runner, I really miss how the Xcab climbed, particularly on the ledges in Moab. It was longer (wheelbase), lighter and lower than the Runner, all of which made it a better climber, even though it didn't do other things as well. Anyway, I'm adding a dual case, which will require driveshaft mods anyway, so I'm thinking of moving the rear axle back about 3" while I'm at it. The advantages seem great: better departure angle, better pinion angle (or at least less adjustment after the dual case), and a longer wheelbase. If any of you have done this, or contemplated doing it, I'd like your thoughts.

The shop near me suggested a couple of possibilities and prices for them to do the work:

1) Cut off the existing mounts, fab up new ones, and weld them onto the frame 3" behind the current location and use my current 52" Alcan springs. $1500

2) Get new custom Alcan's with the axle mount point 3" behind the current location and use the existing shock mounts. $1300

Both options would require the same body, brake and shock mount modifications, which are included in the costs.

Any ideas on the relative advantages and disadvantages of the two approaches, or the idea, in general? Also, how tough would this be for someone of average mechanical experience (e.g. installed lift kits, transfer cases, timing belts, etc.) but with zero welding experience, to do themselves? I figure it would cost me about $1000 to accumulate the necessary tools (e.g. welder, etc), so I may be able to save some money this way. How close is my cost estimate? I must admit that the thought of driving across western CO at 85mph with an axle welded on by a novice (even me) is pretty scary. :eek:

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but i don't remember seeing it and couldn't find any similar threads.

Mark

I went the cheap way and just ran mazda spring swap in the rear, this moved my axle back 2.5" and with my front axle moved forward my total 4runner wheelbase is 107", which i think will be great for climbing. I'll bobb it later when i get the time. I used 9 leaves...yes 9, of a combination of mazda and stock rears to get a pack that gave me about 6" of lift, and still flexes just as good as those alcans and allpro's and all those expensive springs, if not better.

In my opinion purchasing the tools is the only way to go. a blind, one legged, retarded midget could mig-weld. also think of all the other cool shit you could build with all of those tools. a shop is going to stick it to you when you start customizing because there is no hourly estimates. There is nothing anywhere saying how long it should take to bob a bed etc. therefore there is no pricing criteria. I am a personal fan of junk yards. you can find everything you need to build a pissed off wheeler from donor vehicles. do a search on the Mazdas, s-10's, rear springs etc. you can always redrill springs to relocate the center pin. and many of these mini pickemups are sprung under so the springs have good arch. And it beats giving Alcan $500 for a set of springs.:smokin:

hey Hobsdaddy,
got any more info or some pics of those rear springs?

Originally posted by Jackass Meote
a blind, one legged, retarded midget could mig-weld.

I'm thinking that's a standard I can meet. :D Both of you guys mentioned the mazda springs. Did you leave the hangers in the more-or-less-stock locations? I'll hunt around the board - there've been lots of posts on mazda springs, but I hadn't thought of using them to move the axle back.

Mark

Putting Mazdas in the stock front hanger would probably move the axle back about 5 inches.
You would need to also move the rear shackle hanger back a bit to keep the shackle from
laying down too much. Run a longer shackle as well.
Jay

As someone mentioned, why not just re-drill my existing springs? They are 52" Alcans and work fine, so I'm not all that excited about getting new ones, anyway. I need to measure this weekend, but it appears the axle crosses the center of the spring now.

Any particular reason not to do this?

Mark

Im4yota's...these are what my rear packs have to the best of my memory. One thing I learned with me and my buddy doing the same amount of leaves with different kinds of leaves, your more then likely going to get the same amount of lift no matter what leaves you mix in with the mazda's, I used in this order: mazda main leaf, mazda main leaf cut, mazda second leaf, mazda 3rd leaf, mazda 3rd leaf cut, stock toy rear second leaf, stock toy rear third leaf cut, stock toy main leaf cut, big mazda overload leaf. I cut them to wear they are staggered, about an inch or so shorter on each side then the spring on top of them. The mazda main leaf was cut right at the ears so that it rides all the way even with the top mazda main, this helps give it more support so it doesnt bend out of shape as easy. My buddy built a 9 leaf pack with all mazda's not staggered like i did, and his is only about a inch smaller lift then mine, both flex about the same. I'll get some pics up soon.

I have only played with these on the trail and havent gotten in the rocks with them yet because I still have no front driveshaft, I still get axle wrap, not as much as my old mazda combination, but I will need a traction bar for better performance, but I already knew this. I like this pack cause it creates a good amount of lift (for 38's) and the 9 leaves give the affect of a lift block, the thickness of the pack is where you get most of the lift, and your left with a only slightly arched main leaf, still giving you good articulation.

Originally posted by ScaldedDog
As someone mentioned, why not just re-drill my existing springs? They are 52" Alcans and work fine, so I'm not all that excited about getting new ones, anyway. I need to measure this weekend, but it appears the axle crosses the center of the spring now.

Any particular reason not to do this?

Mark

You'd go through a $100 in drill bits... The new purches are pretty simple. When i did my Allpro lift & SAS, I put my rear about 2" back, works good. Sell the Alcans and get chevy's...

You're more then welcome to stop buy and check out my setup. I'm up around 120th & I-25.

Originally posted by ScaldedDog
As someone mentioned, why not just re-drill my existing springs? They are 52" Alcans and work fine, so I'm not all that excited about getting new ones, anyway. I need to measure this weekend, but it appears the axle crosses the center of the spring now.

Any particular reason not to do this?

Mark

I would be hesitant about redrilling your springs, I've heard of good results from some people, but I know one guy who snapped a main leaf like that. You might consider just using a different mainleaf with the distance you want, in conjunction with your alcans. I'm using a set of pre-88 chevy springs in the stock forward mount and they stretched my WB about 5-7 inches. I'd just go to the junk yard and measure a bunch of truck spring for their eye to pin length and pick one that gives you about 3 inches.

You'd go through a $100 in drill bits...

Using cheap masonry bits work better on the hardened metal then standard metal drill bits. Using them its not so bad. Although Im not sure if i would drill the packs due to the rise of risk of a fracture in the spring.

Why not give alcan a call, and order a new main and second leaf. Just tell them where you want the axle, and Ill bet theyll make a couple new leaves cheap.

As for drilling, youll kink them, eventually break them right through the original hole. If you look, 3" will put the hole right on the edge of the u-bolt plate, where the spring gets the most stress.

As for mazdas, theyre the same length, and same pin location as what youve got now.

If youd be happy with 2", maybe 2.5" you could redrill your spring perches, and u-bolt plate.

Originally posted by Brian Ellinger
Why not give alcan a call...

Good idea, Brian. I dropped Charles a note this evening, so we'll see what he says. The guys at the shop (you know them, but I'll not mention the name here) had the same opinion of drilling the springs.

89YotaRunner - I'll take you up on that. I'll PM mail you about a time. Thanks!

Thanks to everyone for the input. If I do it, and I expect I will, I'll post pics when it's done.

Mark

I'm not a big fan of redrilling springs, but carbide burrs work well with cutting oil.
Jay