I was reading through some other posts, and yes I did do a search, but I want to find info about crawler box's for the LT230. Any info would be nice.

Ashcroft made crawler boxes, and they were discontinued.

BCB has been rumored to be making a under/overdrive type unit, but it has never seen the light of day.

In summation:

Make an adapter for a D300 case or an Atlas (If it's even workable)

Get a TF bellhousing, TF727 and mount a D300 or Atlas to it (I think this might work)

Pay out the asshole for a used crawler box.

Design and build your own.

Or..... Just put smaller tires on the truck and pretend you have crawler gears. Something like a 28" tire should do it!

make friends with somebody in Australia and have them get you some 4.3:1 gears from MaxiDrive... far cheaper than getting them through GBR, here.

Ive heard that he is not far off having 4.6:1 gearsets for the LT230 as well.

Sam

Ive heard that he is not far off having 4.6:1 gearsets for the LT230 as well.

Sam


That'll be interesting. I wonder how much metal will be left in the stock T-case after that is installed.

Yup, as stated before, Ashcroft no longer makes or sells them. John Putnin's on this list got one of the last boxes (after nearly a year wait). Maybe he would sell the one he has not installed ($$$$$).

Ashcroft apparently quit producing them because they normally use the planetary gearset outta a RR (middle body style) and they have been using all their avail. planetaries to actually fix the RR's now.

The vaporware from BCB has been rumored for many years now. Not sure I would pin much hope on that (although it would be great to have an under/overdrive).

Billster

ps. Here are some picts of the Ashcroft endangered species:

Wow! This thread has been around a few times... Is the Search function working? The responses are so similar and predictable that I had to check the post dates three times to make sure this wasn't just the old thread brought up again!

Interesting about Ashcroft. I always thought they just found them prohibitively expensive to manufacture for such a small market. Apparently, most people are looking for overdrives in other countries.

Anyway, Yes there are 2 Ashcroft crawlers in my Garage again (thanks Bill!), soon to be shipped to my new house in Maryland. Sounds like they're soon going to be worth their weight in gold! I guess procrastination does pay... My goal is to install one in my D110 sometime after arrival in MD. The other is for my D90 which needs some other work too in order to run the crawler without breaking. Yes, it's always broken already. :( Anyway, if someone is crazy interested, I might be convinced to part with one in order to help me finance my house and keep the Rover habit going. However, I know I can't get another and I'd have to get real creative to get the same results another way.

P.S. Billster, did you get my e-mail?

Ive heard that he is not far off having 4.6:1 gearsets for the LT230 as well.

Sam

I got my little Rascal :flipoff2:

On a serious note, the low range gear sets sound cool, but the only problem I would have with them... is that you get:

Hi range

Mega Low Range

Sometimes for rallying or just gettin from one obstacle to another high range is to "high" :rasta: and the low is to low, thats why the crawler box is such a good fit for alot of folks...

TomW

Slighly off topic, but anyone know of any homebuilt Series crawler boxes. Rumour has it that you can pull the gears out of a Fairey (or similar) OD and replace them with Dana transfer gears to build a selectable underdrive. Has anyone else heard of this or are the rumours just that.

Slighly off topic, but anyone know of any homebuilt Series crawler boxes. Rumour has it that you can pull the gears out of a Fairey (or similar) OD and replace them with Dana transfer gears to build a selectable underdrive. Has anyone else heard of this or are the rumours just that.

i wrote about this on outerlimits. bill larman from melbourne has done a couple of these using jeep quadratrac gears in a fairey housing on the back of a lt77. i was considering this with my original yellow project. would've been good because the lt77 is a good unit for crawling.

Cheers for the info NAM - for some reason I can't access outerlimits in Germany. Does Bill Larmann have contact details? If there is anything more posted on that since the original OL post could you repost it here please - or PM/email benjmullins AT hotmail dot com.

Why the LT77? What T-case???

The LT95 has about the best ratio - 65:1 1st low if you run 4.7:1 gears, and just about unbreakable.

sorry i meant the lt95 4speed+tcase unit. i thought it was the lt77 for some stoner reason...

bill's in vietnam at the moment but he should be back in melbourne very soon. i know very little about his setup but i can ask when he returns.

That makes a lot more sense - the LT95 Overdrive is a very strong unit - much better than the weak series OD. Cheers NAM.

sorry i meant the lt95 4speed+tcase unit. i thought it was the lt77 for some stoner reason...

bill's in vietnam at the moment but he should be back in melbourne very soon. i know very little about his setup but i can ask when he returns.

Cool, I'm running the LT-95.

More info please! :D

Cool, I'm running the LT-95.

More info please! :D

What ratios are you at at the moment Serious One?

What ratios are you at at the moment Serious One?

I'm not exactly sure the ratios, but I have an LT-95 that was supposed to be put into a Stage1 109, but never was.

It has the lower-ratio high-range gears, and I have purchased the higher ratio gears (that were offered in the LT-95 equipped Range Rover Classics), with the thoughts I'd install them at a later date. I do not believe that there are any variations for the low-range gears.

With that information someone here (maybe Adam or Ike) could look up in a book and see what ratio they are.

That makes a lot more sense - the LT95 Overdrive is a very strong unit - much better than the weak series OD. Cheers NAM.

Hmmmm, dunno about that. I have an EXPLODED TO BITS Fairy overdrive in my garage that was on an LT-95. I do not know what happened to it to make it self-destruct, but it ain't pretty.

I do not know what happened to it to make it self-destruct, but it ain't pretty.

Well it ran out of oil!

-Jeff

how much are we talking to sell one of those crawler boxes?

I'm not exactly sure the ratios, but I have an LT-95 that was supposed to be put into a Stage1 109, but never was.

It has the lower-ratio high-range gears, and I have purchased the higher ratio gears (that were offered in the LT-95 equipped Range Rover Classics), with the thoughts I'd install them at a later date. I do not believe that there are any variations for the low-range gears.

With that information someone here (maybe Adam or Ike) could look up in a book and see what ratio they are.


If I remember correctly, you should have approx 1.4:1 high range, and low range is about 3.3:1 for all LT95's. 1st gear was about 4.1:1 I think.

If you run 4.7:1 diffs - you will have roughly 65:1 without a crawler box! But even with 0.998:1 high range transfer gears (which the high compression RRC had) it would be a bit slow on the highway unless you have big wheels.

The series Fairey would fall to bits if it even looked at a RR V8 or SBC - let alone if it was bolted to one. If you have a good case and shafts in your OD, sounds like you have a good donor for a crawler box.

what ratios does the Ashcroft crawler box give?
As I may have found one

LR Gear Box Data (http://members.shaw.ca/red90/gears.html#lt230)

2.69:1 on top of everything else.

Thanks John, I had your site bookmarked in Australia - it is very useful. You need to include Stage 1 V8 with 110 for the models that used the 1.3:1 high range in the LT95 T-case.

Billster
was the box easy to install?
are there different types for the different input gears on the LT77/R380 gearbox
what did you remove from the original transfer box in order to install the crawler?
thanks

The crawler bolts to the PTO flange and replaces the input gear. The crawler input gear must match the type being removed.

Not that hard to install. Easier on the bench but not necessary. Just pull of the PTO cover, then pull out the input gear set (your crawler has to match the tooth count of the input gear set). Remove the ebrake drum. Then slip the crawler in and tighten the bolts. Some of the Crawler bolts may be hard to get to in the truck (helps if you can take off the seat box center cover). Hard part is getting the bearing preload correct. You may have to fiddle with the thickness of the supplied gasket to get it right. Mine was perfect with the supplied gasket, and RightStuff on either side of it. The linkage is another story. What worked for me was a D2 t-case lever with all the extra crap cut off (bracket material and such) and flipped backward. It sits in the seatbox between the seat and the tuffy console.

Here are some various install picts:

Tcase/Crawler

BillsterBillster
was the box easy to install?
are there different types for the different input gears on the LT77/R380 gearbox
what did you remove from the original transfer box in order to install the crawler?
thanks

Tcase - input gearset removed and cleaning gasket surface.

Billster

Inner bearing race for the bearing on the Crawler. The one that needs the proper preload.

Billster

New input sleeve going into the planetaries on the crawler (this part has to be removed for installation of the box).

Billster

1/2 the crawler installed.

Billster

Full Crawler/Tcase together.

Billster

Crawler/Tcase in the truck.

Billster

And finally the D2 hacked backward shifter for the crawler. Not pictured is the Prosthetic hip ball I used for the shifter.

Billster

Excellent pics thanks
I have one nearly in my hands just need to go and collect it.
But:
I'm pretty sure it is fitted to a 1.667 transfer box ex mod 2.5 N/A diesel 110 at the moment
mine is a 1.4 standard 90, is the gear on the input shaft changeable?

I have to go and collect/remove it if I want the box the seller wants the 110 left working as it should minus its crawler box, So I need to gather the bits to fill the hole left once the crawler box is out.
I'm thinking:
PTO cover/Input gear(correct one) and bearing carrier?

as the box is a fair distance from me I need to be sure I have all the bits needed to get the 110 back together once the crawler box is removed and of course that I can get the box to fit my 90.
thanks again for the pics/explanation

Its all in the input gear tooth count. It they are the same between your truck and his, then just put your own gear and pto cover on his when you get the crawler (or source another one from Ashcroft). The Ashcrofts are prolly your best bet to find out what tooth count that 1.6 box has. There are some standards between years and models, but the only way to know for absolute certainty is to pull it out. You can check yours pretty easily by pulling the input gear and counting.

I also forgot to mention that you will have to cleanance the brake drum on the ebrake just a bit (flatten an area about 2" across along the diameter) to get it back on with the crawler in place.

Billster

Excellent pics thanks
I have one nearly in my hands just need to go and collect it.
But:
I'm pretty sure it is fitted to a 1.667 transfer box ex mod 2.5 N/A diesel 110 at the moment
mine is a 1.4 standard 90, is the gear on the input shaft changeable?

I have to go and collect/remove it if I want the box the seller wants the 110 left working as it should minus its crawler box, So I need to gather the bits to fill the hole left once the crawler box is out.
I'm thinking:
PTO cover/Input gear(correct one) and bearing carrier?

as the box is a fair distance from me I need to be sure I have all the bits needed to get the 110 back together once the crawler box is removed and of course that I can get the box to fit my 90.
thanks again for the pics/explanation

Also, my picts are of a Gen 2 box. Gen 1 boxes are about the same, but the shifter apparatus on the side of the housing is not welded on nicely like the Gen 2. The Gen 1's are good boxes, but tend to have a bit more gear noise than the 2's.

Billster

in this pic
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=160724&stc=1
does the gear/bearing slide off of the input shaft?

on Johns gear info pages(page1 of this thread) the 1.667 and 1.4 both have 26 tooth input gears,but are there any other differences?
I have axs to a couple of spare LT230's that I can grab bits from if they'll fit his T/Box

I will call Dave at Ashcrofts before I set off incase there are any bits I need from him and or needed for the box to fit on mine.
is the input gear different from the LT77 to the R380 anyone know?
as I'll have all my part spare once I go to fit the Crawler

thanks for taking time to reply.

Bearing is pressed onto the input. Race is pressed into the tcase housing just inboard of the input seal. You can see the race in this picture:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=160730&stc=1

I assume that the there is no difference in the output shaft of the LT77 vs the R380 as many LT77 were converted to R380's here in the states. Just a guess though.

Billster

in this pic
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=160724&stc=1
does the gear/bearing slide off of the input shaft?

on Johns gear info pages(page1 of this thread) the 1.667 and 1.4 both have 26 tooth input gears,but are there any other differences?
I have axs to a couple of spare LT230's that I can grab bits from if they'll fit his T/Box

I will call Dave at Ashcrofts before I set off incase there are any bits I need from him and or needed for the box to fit on mine.
is the input gear different from the LT77 to the R380 anyone know?
as I'll have all my part spare once I go to fit the Crawler

thanks for taking time to reply.

I have just been checking the details re the transfer boxes on some papers I got from M/D:
LT230 22D suffix F 1.410:1 which is what I have in mine has the same input gear as the
1.667:1 as fitted to the 110 ex mod N/a diesels
both have 26teeth and a 32mm wide gear 80mm bearing width
so I may be in luck as long as the lt77 output shaft is the same as the R380

Output shaft on R380 has same spline as LT77.

So what does a box like this run? Just ballpark would be good enough.

they're not available anymore, and if you find a used one, they'll probably want some large amount for it.

Hmmmm, dunno about that. I have an EXPLODED TO BITS Fairy overdrive in my garage that was on an LT-95. I do not know what happened to it to make it self-destruct, but it ain't pretty.

I thought you junked it?

I have all of the parts to do the CB crawler box (thanx MCDB). Waiting for some more measurements and a quotation for the machine work should be forthcoming. If nothing else, there may be a single prototype made.

Paul,

Be sure to know that if the prototype goes good, I'll be in for a couple of these...(or any other solid/economic crawler)

Billster
Can I ask another favour?
Do you have any installation instructions for the crawler box?
I collected mine today and it is the MK11 like yours with the welded section outside.
I'd really appreciate any info re bearing preload setting and handbrake drum mods.
Did you mod two sides of your drum so as to maintain balance?

Got some instructions from Ashcrofts
just need to remove the exhaust centre box so I can fit it now.

http://usera.imagecave.com/txc/crawler/IMG_0248.JPG