Looks like I will be doing the Warn Internal Spline Hub conversion before too long, right after i get my front cage in. Spit out another hub lock today on the trail

http://www.ihssii.org/Hooper/HTMLPages/Wheeling.htm

How much does that cost? I bet it would be cheaper to convert to F150 parts, and it would also make it easier to do highsteer.

Don't waste your money on the hub conversion. Just go to the boneyard and get some 150 outers. If you want high steer, get some chevy flat top knuckles.

Yup, agree with all, or carry an extra set of hubs.

Originally posted by 1MutCJ7
Don't waste your money on the hub conversion. Just go to the boneyard and get some 150 outers. If you want high steer, get some chevy flat top knuckles.

Ok. Details. What am i looking for, what is the process, how much is it going to cost, what years? Flat top knuckles are a good idea. if I am going to swap knuckles, might as well get flat tops for high steer later on...

For now, I will slap another hub on, after i drill out the bolts that sheard off inside the hub, until I get the parts for the conversion...

Originally posted by Hooper


Ok. Details. What am i looking for, what is the process, how much is it going to cost, what years? Flat top knuckles are a good idea. if I am going to swap knuckles, might as well get flat tops for high steer later on...

For now, I will slap another hub on, after i drill out the bolts that sheard off inside the hub, until I get the parts for the conversion...

flat top knuckles from a '73-77 Chevy or FSJ.

Spindles and calipers and caliper brackets to match.

F150 hubs/rotors from a 77-91 or so. I paid $50 each from the junkyard. New might be just a touch more.

Also get a Chevy or Ford 19-spline stub shaft.

You'll need to go High-steer at the same time, since the Chevy knuckles have no provision for cross-over steering.

Do you check your hub bolts before each run, Pat? Use any Loctite? :)

You might also look for someone with a QuadraTrac CJ7 that's upgrading. The CJ7 used external style drive-flanges. Compact and easy to carry as a spare, and probalby a bit stronger than the bolt-on locking hubs.

The Ford parts are still the stronger way to go. Even more so if you put some "slugs" in it. :D

For Patty to switch to Ford stuff, he would need: Flat-top knuckles with the GM 6-bolt pattern, 6-bolt chevy/ford spindles, 19-spline stubs, some sort of high-steer arrangement, new tie-rods/draglinks, GM backing plates and Calipers, new brake lines and adapters, new 19-spline hub-locks.....

that's a lot of sourceing/couple hundred in stuff.


No, I think his best bet is the WARN kit, best for the $$ and simplicity.

course, if he just bought a NEW set of hub-locks, instead of the old ones he keeps using... he wouldn't have a problem. I don't know why/how you keep busting them patty, I have NEVER popped on, and I'm just as hard on in as you.... I highly doubt that LS you have in the front adds THAT much more stress (you've seen my wheel stands <g>).

Course: hew external hubs are $120-$150, the WARN kit (which comes with locks) is ~$250... and your due for new hubs :flippoff2:.... Whish I had gone that way when I bought my new locks....


just my $.02.....
-mark

The WARN conversion is less than I thought it was, $255 on macromotive.com. You'd spend more on the F150 conversion, but you would have the advantage of flat top knuckles, and no custom (non-junkyard) parts.

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite
For Patty to switch to Ford stuff, he would need: Flat-top knuckles with the GM 6-bolt pattern, 6-bolt chevy/ford spindles, 19-spline stubs, some sort of high-steer arrangement, new tie-rods/draglinks, GM backing plates and Calipers, new brake lines and adapters, new 19-spline hub-locks.....

that's a lot of sourceing/couple hundred in stuff.


No, I think his best bet is the WARN kit, best for the $$ and simplicity.



Buying a '74-'77 Wagoneer D44 will get MOST of the parts he needs, add a pair of '80s F150 hubs, hublocks, and rotors and he is done. He could use the wagoneer tie rod, draglink, and pitman arm. Might need a longer draglink or a z-link. Highsteer is NOT required.

Originally posted by tsm1mt
Do you check your hub bolts before each run, Pat? Use any Loctite? :)

You might also look for someone with a QuadraTrac CJ7 that's upgrading. The CJ7 used external style drive-flanges. Compact and easy to carry as a spare, and probalby a bit stronger than the bolt-on locking hubs.

The Ford parts are still the stronger way to go. Even more so if you put some "slugs" in it. :D

I checked them the last couple of trips - put a box on them and gave a good tug. They were all nice and tight. I think I used red locktight after my last assembly. Grade 5 bolts. I checked last night. I have a spare hub on my bench, minus locking mechanism. My locking mechanism looks fine. I need to pull the c-clip out of the hub, and put some axle grease on those roller bearings in there, then drill out the hub and get the stubs out. Looks like the threads are pretty mangled on a couple of the stud holes, so I might be drill and tapping a bit as well. This is short temr fix. I'll be ordering up my conversion shortly.

Originally posted by Ben W
The WARN conversion is less than I thought it was, $255 on macromotive.com. You'd spend more on the F150 conversion, but you would have the advantage of flat top knuckles, and no custom (non-junkyard) parts.

Yeah, I think Pat missed the boat on the F150 conversion. Dontcha remember all of us telling you to go with the flat-tops and F150 parts and high-steer when you did the SOA? :flipoff2:

Cheaper to just buy the Warns and be done with it, Pat.

OTOH, then when you *do* decide to go high-steer, you'll have too much $$$ invested in the shiny new front hubs, so you'll "have" to find the 8-bolt flat-tops (or modify 6-bolt flat-tops)..

It'll hurt either way I guess.

Pay Now, Pay Later.

Like everything else..

Last week I walked into Champion and bought everything I needed to put my front end back together OFF THE SHELF.

No ordering, no waiting.

Well, I had to wait a day for Checker to get my new (warrantied for the 2nd time) stock Chevy tie-rod.. but they also didn't ask any questions about how it managed to get bent. :D

-Tom

Originally posted by Ben W


Buying a '74-'77 Wagoneer D44 will get MOST of the parts he needs, add a pair of '80s F150 hubs, hublocks, and rotors and he is done. He could use the wagoneer tie rod, draglink, and pitman arm. Might need a longer draglink or a z-link. Highsteer is NOT required.

Hmm, I have a brand new heavy duty SS Tie Rod, brand new heavy duty z-link. Not really to jettison this stuff yet.

Since I am not heading for high steer very soon, I think I will try the warn kit. Thanks for the suggestions. gives a nice clean look to the hub, also.

Originally posted by Ben W


Buying a '74-'77 Wagoneer D44 will get MOST of the parts he needs, add a pair of '80s F150 hubs, hublocks, and rotors and he is done. He could use the wagoneer tie rod, draglink, and pitman arm. Might need a longer draglink or a z-link. Highsteer is NOT required.

Do the Wagoneer knuckles have two holes in the passenger side?

My Chevy knuckles only have one hole in the arms on either side, for the tie-rod.

I might've gone Z-link if I could, but there was no place (aside from the tie-rod) to mount it, so I went "high-steer" draglink and stock tie-rod (Checker lifetime warranty at that.. heh)

Y'know, another thought, Pat.. if you're thinking of going 8-lug down the road... :D

Yes, I'm mean.

-Tom

Originally posted by Hooper


Hmm, I have a brand new heavy duty SS Tie Rod, brand new heavy duty z-link. Not really to jettison this stuff yet.


With the right high-steer arms, you could probably keep the tie-rod, just need a new draglink.


Since I am not heading for high steer very soon, I think I will try the warn kit. Thanks for the suggestions. gives a nice clean look to the hub, also.

Like this?

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/racer/chevyfront/one_hub/image1.jpg

OK, it's a nice, sleek, DIRTY look in this pic.. :D

And that chrome helped me tie Best Use of Plating.. :D

I think it goes faster, too..

Another advantage - I can use ANY ('cept drum brake-only) 5 on 5.5 wheel. Even the factory Ford wheels with the small center hole.

I have a set of 15x8 white-spoke Ford wheels kickin' around..

Only problem with these hubs is the darn internal snap-ring that's a real PITA. Anyone have a good way for getting that out?

It's the snap ring that is just inside the end of the wheel hub, snaps into the inside edge of the outer hub body.

Last one came out pretty easily with two screwdrivers but it can be a real pain..

Originally posted by tsm1mt


With the right high-steer arms, you could probably keep the tie-rod, just need a new draglink.



Like this?

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/racer/chevyfront/one_hub/image1.jpg

OK, it's a nice, sleek, DIRTY look in this pic.. :D

And that chrome helped me tie Best Use of Plating.. :D

I think it goes faster, too..

Only problem with these hubs is the darn internal snap-ring that's a real PITA. Anyone have a good way for getting that out?

It's the snap ring that is just inside the end of the wheel hub, snaps into the inside edge of the outer hub body.

Last one came out pretty easily with two screwdrivers but it can be a real pain..


:) Yep. Like that. Coolness factor and all. I'll probably paint the chrome black.... :)

How hard are they to install Tom?

Biggest headache is going to be getting the sheared bolts out.

Originally posted by Hooper



:) Yep. Like that. Coolness factor and all. I'll probably paint the chrome black.... :)

How hard are they to install Tom?

Biggest headache is going to be getting the sheared bolts out.

I'm running the factory Ford stuff. From a 1990 F150 (that would make this part the newest vehicle I own..)

Easy to install.. almost like it came that way from the factory. :D

Tigger still runs stock WARNS. I blew 2 or 3 of the Selectro/Dualmatic hubs up in the past. No problems (yet) with the Warns, though I do carry an extra spare.

I haven't started carrying the drive flanges for the Ford hubs yet. I haven't broken any yet.. when I convert Tigger over I'll probably start carrying my slugs as trail spares.

Originally posted by tsm1mt


I'm running the factory Ford stuff. From a 1990 F150 (that would make this part the newest vehicle I own..)

Easy to install.. almost like it came that way from the factory. :D

Tigger still runs stock WARNS. I blew 2 or 3 of the Selectro/Dualmatic hubs up in the past. No problems (yet) with the Warns, though I do carry an extra spare.

I haven't started carrying the drive flanges for the Ford hubs yet. I haven't broken any yet.. when I convert Tigger over I'll probably start carrying my slugs as trail spares.

Looks like it pretty much just slides on over the studs? I have new rotors so I will be keeping the rotors. Studs were replaced with the rotors, so I will keep those. Bearings are pretty new, but I will probably replace those while I am at it anyway.

Studs go through the rotor from the backside. The hub kit slides on over the studs. Not even a press fit, is it? Outer bearing slides on over axle stub, locking nut with nipple out, or does this use a nipple washer? Kind of looks like a nipple washer. Lock washer. jam nut. Outer C-clip to keep axle from riding in. I see the internal clip. What is that for? Slide the lock mechanism in, 6 or 8 allen screws to hold that in place... That sound about right?

Originally posted by tsm1mt


Do the Wagoneer knuckles have two holes in the passenger side?

My Chevy knuckles only have one hole in the arms on either side, for the tie-rod.


-Tom

No, the wagoneer tie rod has a cast in hole on the tie rod where the draglink attaches.

Wagoneer knuckles are almost identical to the chevy knuckles, except the tie rod hole is tapered from the top rather than the bottom.

Originally posted by tsm1mt


Only problem with these hubs is the darn internal snap-ring that's a real PITA. Anyone have a good way for getting that out?

It's the snap ring that is just inside the end of the wheel hub, snaps into the inside edge of the outer hub body.

Last one came out pretty easily with two screwdrivers but it can be a real pain..

Dental pick..... hook it and pull. Takes me about 5 seconds to get it out that way.

Here's another idea for you, Pat..

How about taking your "new" hub and using a reamer on the bolt holes. Instead of a round hole (cylinder) make it a conical hole/tapered hole.

Then install studs into the wheel hub. Slide the locking hub over the studs.

Install conical washers (the kind we use on high-steer arm mounts) and air-craft style "stover" lock-nuts.

The tapered/conical "washers" will eliminate ALL slop from the system.

By the time he buys a tapered reamer, studs, conical washers, and the aircraft stover nuts, he would have been better off buying the WARN hub conversion.

Where can you even buy those kind of conical washers?

what the hell are you two talking about??

Whats this about nipple nuts and slip fits (sounds dirty if I type it that way :D)


are you talking about the WARN kit patty?? I Assumed it was set up just like the normal hub, just with an internal hub-lock not the external.

Studs press in, spindle nut, slotted washer, spindle nut.

Hub lock mechanism, snap-ring on stub, big snap rig (the one tom was talking about) in the hub, the the hub-lock and 6 little bolts.


you guys are making by brain hurt...


Ask Thebert, he's run his for a couple years now, and has the right-up on the BB.....

Originally posted by Ben W
By the time he buys a tapered reamer, studs, conical washers, and the aircraft stover nuts, he would have been better off buying the WARN hub conversion.

Where can you even buy those kind of conical washers?

I didn't suggest HE buy the reamers.. find someone else that already has 'em. :D

The only cone washers I've bought were the GM/Dana ones for my high-steer.

However, IIRC, some Dana 60 rears used this type of fastener on the rear flanges.

I can't remember if mine has 'em or not - ~75 Ford changed from one style to the other, and I can't remember which is which and which I have.. but I can look. Haven't gotten around to disassembling the 60 yet.

Someone on PBB mentioned the modification some time back as well - reaming the holes and using the cones.

The lock nuts are relatively cheap. I haven't priced studs.

For Pat, it's probably still a better solution to go with the Warn conversion.. but if he had a few friends with the right tools, I think the stud/ream/cone-washer modification could be a significantly cheaper upgrade.

Too bad Mark doesn't have a mill on his desk anymore..

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite
what the hell are you two talking about??

Whats this about nipple nuts and slip fits (sounds dirty if I type it that way :D)


are you talking about the WARN kit patty?? I Assumed it was set up just like the normal hub, just with an internal hub-lock not the external.

Studs press in, spindle nut, slotted washer, spindle nut.

Hub lock mechanism, snap-ring on stub, big snap rig (the one tom was talking about) in the hub, the the hub-lock and 6 little bolts.


you guys are making by brain hurt...


Ask Thebert, he's run his for a couple years now, and has the right-up on the BB.....

The article on the BB does not say much. Talks about the advantages etc, but that is about it. Bill says it is pretty self evident, and won't take long.

I want to put in the front cage first. I have one more hub lock shell, and one more hub lock still on the shelf, so I should be good for a couple more runs before the conversion. I want to get the front cage in first.

Originally posted by Hooper


The article on the BB does not say much. Talks about the advantages etc, but that is about it. Bill says it is pretty self evident, and won't take long.

I want to put in the front cage first. I have one more hub lock shell, and one more hub lock still on the shelf, so I should be good for a couple more runs before the conversion. I want to get the front cage in first.

Smittybilt SC88. Central 4WD ordered it for me.. and you don't even have to drive 300 miles to Spokane to pick 'em up. :D

It would do me a lot more good if I had it INSTALLED.. but first the body mounts need attention..

-Tom
Tons of goodies, no time to install 'em..

Originally posted by tsm1mt


Smittybilt SC88. Central 4WD ordered it for me.. and you don't even have to drive 300 miles to Spokane to pick 'em up. :D

It would do me a lot more good if I had it INSTALLED.. but first the body mounts need attention..

-Tom
Tons of goodies, no time to install 'em..

Yep. That is what Mark is ordering up for me.

I gotta save for that crawler box though also :D