well I hpe you do cuz I dont....

what do you sugest I do to make this more flexy

thanks

http://atlas.binderbulletin.org/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=3735

add an add a leaf, overload leafs, and a couple more leafs just for good luck,
also need a 12" shackle...

Originally posted by Toyota_Jim
add an add a leaf, overload leafs, and a couple more leafs just for good luck,
also need a 12" shackle...

well that whould look cool but not to flexy

Do you "NEED" all the leaves? are you going to re-arch? what is your ultimate goal for your vehicle?

Originally posted by SMART ASS
Do you "NEED" all the leaves? are you going to re-arch? what is your ultimate goal for your vehicle?


well it's a tughf call I whould like the truck to be abel to carry a good waght but also be a bit flexy in the front for trael wheeling. Having said that I thing I might be asking for somthing thats doest exist like a cat/fish both on opicit sides of the scael. BTW what does it cost to get leafs re-arched

Cheif, get youself a set of good flexy springs and run airbags for load hauling. You can disconnect them or let all of the air out of them for trail work.

It works wonders...

Well your best bet would be to get some springs that are known to be flexy on a rig similar to yours. I think for the front your best bet would be some Fullsize chevy lift springs. Tuff Country and Rough Country are both fairly soft on those trucks.

Put a truck on top of it. The weight will help. :)

J. J.

Can we say COILS! Soft, flexible, can carry whatever weight you want! Ahhhhh Yeeeeah buddy!

maybe you could learn to spell. then work on the flexy springs!:flipoff2: :rolleyes: :smokin:

Originally posted by ross hildebrandt
maybe you could learn to spell. then work on the flexy springs!:flipoff2: :rolleyes: :smokin:


why what did I spell wrong

Originally posted by coiled
Can we say COILS! Soft, flexible, can carry whatever weight you want! Ahhhhh Yeeeeah buddy!

HAHAHAHAHAHA!! wow this cracks me up. You can take your coils and spring one up yo asshole :flipoff2:

Im with Rockbuggy on this one.. COILS BITE...
Oh, and rockbuggy.. clean out your PM box! :flipoff2:
Scott

i wont cut on a good set up leaf spring set up, but COILS........... well imho theres no comparison.... :flipoff2:

Originally posted by Chief Yelling Alot



why what did I spell wrong
I don't know, you tell us.

well it's a tughf call I whould like the truck to be abel to carry a good waght but also be a bit flexy in the front for trael wheeling. Having said that I thing I might be asking for somthing thats doest exist like a cat/fish both on opicit sides of the scael. BTW what does it cost to get leafs re-arched

Originally posted by Toyota_Jim
add an add a leaf, overload leafs, and a couple more leafs just for good luck,
also need a 12" shackle...
and don't forget the eight chrome shocks with hot pink boots!:flipoff2:

http://www.ih8mud.com/misc/2001-05-19_rti-tech/p5190005.jpg

That's a 9 leaf front spring pack and a 8 leaf rear pack, RTI of 1000+ on a 23 degree. (Like RTI's make a dick of difference, but that's what it is....) Flexes hella better on the trail, but ya gotta start measuring somewheres....

I separated all my leaves, wire brushed them, painted them with a graphite-based paint, and reassembled. Keep your spring wraps loose for droop. Keep your shackle angle at 45 degrees - IMO, this is the biggest ride change. (Verticle shackles transfer ALL the small shocks straight into the frame and into you...) Greasable bushings/pins can help a little too. The thickness of the leaves is critical, as is having leaves that are tapered/thinned at the ends. (You could modify your current ones for this too)

Originally posted by Cutter

and don't forget the eight chrome shocks with hot pink boots!:flipoff2:


:barf: :barf: :barf: :barf:

Originally posted by woody
http://www.ih8mud.com/misc/2001-05-19_rti-tech/p5190005.jpg

. Keep your spring wraps loose for droop.


is that the pice of band iron that wrapes around the leefs

Originally posted by Chief Yelling Alot



is that the pice of band iron that wrapes around the leefs

YES

cool


what about removing them conpletly

If you remove them completely, your springs will go crooked and stick out everywhere, then they will stop supporting the load. Just bend them so they are loose and stick straight up. You want them there to keep the springs in line only.

ok what if I only removed the two at the very ends of the springs?

I cant spell for jak, but chief you're killn me!

Relocate your rear hanger and do the fullsize Chevys Springs.
If you need lift lower the hangeres frnt and rear

Originally posted by SMART ASS
SNIP ... are you going to re-arch?
:eek:re-arch:eek: Gimme a break man! What a fawkin waste of good money!!

CYA ... Depending on your GVWR you could probably lose 1 or 2 leaves, open up the spring wraps(don't remove nuthin'), maybe extended shackles to get the 45 degree angle, and "You've got flex!".:D

Coils:question: as in coil shocks ... :barf: :laughing: :barf:
Fuhgeddahbowdit! Run what ya got now and tweak it. No big cost and you can experiment with it. Leave the pack as is and you can always play with taking out different leaves to see what works for you. The 44044s flex nice!

IMHO ... play with what ya got, see where it takes you, THEN spend the $$$ on what gives you what you wanted.







:confused: Did anyone else catch the flip-flop u-bolts??

Originally posted by tigger4x



:confused: Did anyone else catch the flip-flop u-bolts??


yeah yeah I know its a factory heavy 1/2 tone IH give me a brake

Originally posted by Chief Yelling Alot
ok what if I only removed the two at the very ends of the springs?

No, just open them up. If they are open, removing them wouldn't help flex any more. Take out a few springs as mentioned. It might take a while to get a good spring combo to work (try taking out every-other spring from the bottom until you have taken 3 or 4 out), but you should have plenty of options with that many leaves.

I was looking at your pics, just open up the clamps at the ends of the spring, then remove the bolts from the two center clamps.

Originally posted by tigger4x

... maybe extended shackles to get the 45 degree angle, and "You've got flex!".:D


Ummmm...."extended shackles" will only make your rise worse if you don't end up with them at a ~45 degree angle. And your flex won't change enuf to matter. Longer shackles always make the angle smaller.

Here's what I did, in the front of my truck. Mount the springs to the solid hanger portion of the frame, forward on my reversal setup. Then use a ~1"x4" board between the spring eye and the frame on the shackle end and carefully set the full weight of the truck down. This should allow your springs to compress fully, and hopefully they end up flat or close to it. Now take your shackle plates and determine where to sleeve the frame to get a ~35-40 degree shackle angle while at rest. (shackle angles over the leaf packs.) If you are running a below frame shackle, then use a 4x4 block of wood as a spacer to approximate things. You may need to work with longer shackles to get things angled properly.

http://woody.ih8mud.com/springs-rear.html has a pic of my rear suspension at rest, and a properly angled shackle.

Playing with leaf packs can be time consuming, but it worth it when done. IMO, keep the shortest leaf, remove the next shortest, keep the next, remove the next, and install that way. (leaves 7 & 9 on a 10 leaf pack, #1 being the longest leaf) Good starting point, and should keep some weight handling there as well.

cool thamks :)

Um Woody, where exactly did you come up with 45 degrees being "the" shackle angle? Any idea what that does to the spring rate? The flatter they are, the more the spring will try to rip them off the frame as it compresses and the arch flattens out and the stiffer the pack gets.
Shackle effects are never considered but can make a big difference. You can get it to where the spring rate is increased by 25% or more because of laying the shackle down.

I don't know that it is "the" shackle angle. However...

Flat springs or those with a slight positive arch offer the best ride. Highly arched springs make for a stiffer ride.

Since a flat leaf spring is at it's longest (eye to eye measurement) when the truck is at rest, compressing the spring actually makes it shorter, since the spring must negative arch. Likewise, the spring becomes shorter eye to eye on extension.

When is a spring experience small road irregularities with a 90 degree verticle shackle, these small bumps are transferred straight up through the shackle into the frame....equalling a rough ride. With the shackle ahead of the spring eye, the spring is allowed to compress slightly and absorbs a much higher percentage of this shock.

With flat springs, you want to maximize the amount of shackle "swing"....the amount of front to back movement between full compression and full extension. The spring will move the shackle slightly forward on full compression, tho this should be limited to slight negative arch on the leaf spring for longevity. (bumpstops) On extension, the shackle will swing forward and a combination of shackle length AND shackle mount location/angle is what determines this.

Spring rate never changes. It's all in HOW the spring reacts and works with the balance of the suspension system.

I moved my rear shackle mount 1.5" further forward on my old FJ40 4" Softride suspension - ~45 degree shackle angle, longer shackles. Made a significant difference in the smoothness of the on and off-road ride and helped in the travel of the suspension as well.

OK, spring rate of a spring cannot change but its INSTALLED rate can vary, this is where shackle length and angle come into play.

On your rear it sounds like you changed the shackle LENGTH and the shackle angle. Which made a difference?

Not trying to bust any balls here, it's just that nobody ever pays attention to the effect of shackle angle on the way the spring reacts. Installation effects can make a difference and in some cases it can be really dramatic. There are situations where you could end up with a spring rate of 125% to 150% of the springs actual rate.

Think of this: When your spring with a 45 degree shackle is riding totally flat and you come up on a rock and start to drive up, which way is the rear of the spring trying to push the frame as the spring shortens (it'll get shorter on compression)? It pushes UP on the frame. Away from the rock. If the spring shortens by 1", it's going to move the vehicle up about 5/8". With a 90 degree shackle (straight up and down) it moves the body up about .1". See how it can do things you don't want to happen?

Maybe some of you "red stars" could post some diagrams to go along with the written explanations. Not all of us are verbal rocket scientists. ;)

Originally posted by tigger4x
Maybe some of you "red stars" could post some diagrams to go along with the written explanations. Not all of us are verbal rocket scientists. ;)

I second that :confused:

For the non-verbal...no red stars required...

http://www.ih8mud.com/misc/shackle-angle.jpg

The angle is critical. As can be seen in the above, installing a longer shackle worsens the angle, Either leaving your ride unchanged (in the case of a verctical shackle) or slightly worse if it's angled already.

I can't imagine one situation where I can increase the rate of a spring thru changes in the shackle angle. The direction of forces on the shackle mount do change. As you increase the angle, the mount strength and it's resistance to shear forces needs to be increases, since loads are no longer put into the shackle vertically but are instead trying to "slide" the shackle forward down the frame.

I also cannot see where you reduce the spring rate. (thinking more this morning....) The spring rate is a constant factor, and when the vehicle is sitting level, loaded or not, the angle of the shackle has no effect on that fixed rate. The direction of forces on the shackle itself and on the mount are changed, but the amount of force is no different, just the direction.

Regarding coming up on a rock....the spring eye-to-eye measurement shortens the same amount regardless of the shackle angle. It's HOW the shackle reacts. In all situations, with a flat spring, the shackle moves forward, and in all cases, it moves the same amount.

Now look at image #2....the swing of two shackles....(sounds like a new song, huh?) Hopefully this clears up something...

http://www.ih8mud.com/misc/shackle-swing.jpg

Given a flat spring, the 45 degree at rest shackle will allow MUCH greater arc and extension than the verticle shackle, simply because of the amount of forward swing it allows.

Good explaination on the shackle angle. However leaf springs are progressive rate. The spring rate incresses as they flaten out. This is up to a point where they will hit their max spring rate. That is why the leafs get shorter as you go down thru the pack.

Okay, looks great for FLAT springs, HOWEVER I have CURVED springs. Most I have seen do to. Can you transpose this over to this application? THANKS!

Thanks for the clearup ems...brain fart here....

Arched springs are mainly the same. The shackle angle at rest may not be quite as steep, ie: 35 degrees or so. The only other difference is making sure the shackle is long enough to not allow the end of the spring to hit the frame on compression. My old 4" Softrides in the rear of my FJ40 would hit the frame - a 1" longer shackle solved that and still kept me in the 35 degree range for angle.