Dana 44 Vs. Ford 8.8

[TheHighHeat]

ok i did a search, i didn't really find what I wanted,
i have a jeep cherokee with a I6, i'm gonna be running 35s i need opinions on which i should run here's what i've got
ford 8.8 - rear disk brakes - c-clip
dana 44 - direct bolt in, super 44 kit(when i get $$$), non c-clip

[CannonBall]

I dunno about the super 44 kit, but stock to stock the 8.8 is a stronger axle. The c-clips aren't a big deal, and if you break an axle the disk will hold it in. the 44's a semi floater and easier to bolt up and probably cheaper, I dunno man. Just go with whatever is cheaper, I'm sure the super 44 kit will bring it close to 8.8 strength.
-Nate

[Idaho XJ]

Yeah, the 8.8 is a c-clip, but when have you heard of someone breaking a 8.8 with the 4.0? Also, buy the time you have the super 44 kit in it, you will have more in the 44 than you would have if you bought the 8.8 and all necessary hardware, and you will still have drum brakes.

[CheaseMuddin]

8.8
Benefits:
Larger ring gear
Thicker tubes
31 spline
Availability
Disc brakes

Disadvantages:
c-clip
Less ground clearance
Not exactly Jeep width
Not bolt in, so you better learn to weld and get good at it



D44
Benefits:
Bolt in available if you have a TJ
More ground clearance
Larger aftermarket support

Disadvantages:
Drum brakes
30 spline
8.5"? ring gear
Smaller tubes
More expensive if you are getting one from a TJ


I don't think it can really be argued that the TJ D44 is stronger than the 31 spline 8.8, but both are better than the mighty D35.

[makeupqueEn]

Well, My BF is probably picking up a D44 for the rear of his yj for 100 bucks or so soon, so for him, it was really a no brainer. He also has the option of picking up an 8.8, but thats gonna cost more like 350 bucks, and it still needs calipers and a couple other things. Im sure knowing him, he will do the super 44 kit on the rear D44 when he gets the money...
Stacey

[JMyerz]

Originally posted by JeepingGirlfriend
Well, My BF is probably picking up a D44 for the rear of his yj for 100 bucks or so soon, so for him, it was really a no brainer. He also has the option of picking up an 8.8, but thats gonna cost more like 350 bucks, and it still needs calipers and a couple other things. Im sure knowing him, he will do the super 44 kit on the rear D44 when he gets the money...
Stacey

Thats my plan, I'm gonna slap a D44 in my TJ and save some cash for the Super Kit. The Super 44 kit is suposedly near the strength of a D60... at least that what they claim.

Also, if you get a D44 from a scout, you can find late model axles w/ disc brakes or you can buy the parts for a simple bolt up.

-JM

[Po' riggity]

Originally posted by JMyerz


Thats my plan, I'm gonna slap a D44 in my TJ and save some cash for the Super Kit. The Super 44 kit is suposedly near the strength of a D60... at least that what they claim.

Also, if you get a D44 from a scout, you can find late model axles w/ disc brakes or you can buy the parts for a simple bolt up.

-JM
I have a question... what do you mean I can find LATE MODEL axles w disc brakes? from what donor? And does anyone know if Drivetrain Direct will make custom length axles for a super 44 kit, in order to make it work with a scout 44?
Scott

[JMyerz]

Not that Scout guys can be trusted :flipoff2: but...

According to some scout guys around these parts, some of the last scout came with disc brakes (rear) from the factory. And that you can buy parts from GM that are an exact bolt on to change from drums to disc.

Thats a good point on the custom shafts, I hadn't given that a thought. My plan was to find a D44 for reeeaaaal cheap and have custom made tubes put on. This will acomplish two things, the first being that I won't have to worry about those shitty Scout tubes twistin' on me. Second, I won't need to get wheel spacers to even out the track width. I believe that the SII D44 are somewhere in the area of 58" wide, like the ford 8.8


I think that if everything goes right, which it won't ;) , that the Super D44 kit will be an exact fit!

I still need to price it all out, I may just be better ging with a 8.8 or 9". 35's are in the TJ's near future and I want something that can handle it.

-JM

[Po' riggity]

Dude, I know what you mean... Id like to swap tubes as well, but I know thats not feasible.. and its easier to just stick some 39 dollar adapters/spacers on there to even out the track width. As far as the tubes bending and twisting.. thats what a truss is for.. at least thats what I plan on doing.. as far as disc brakes.. that would be way cool!

[JMyerz]

Nice part about the SII D44 is if you look really hard you can find one for about $50 :smokin:

After you sell parts off your D35 you'll have coverd the cost of the new axle and have some beer money too!

The brackets will be free because you can cut and weld from your existing setup.

So basiclly the only thing you'll be buying is a R&P Setup!

-Justin

[Josh 89XJ]

Yep, D44s can be WAY cheap and easy if you don't mind scrounging around a bit. I despise c-clips so I really wanted to stay away from the 8.8, not to mention the fact that all of the yards around here want my left nut for one of them. My D44 on the other hand, was free :D I've got less than $300 into it for brackets, all new brakes, new shafts, blah blah blah. I can't argue with the shafts being of equal length either. 1 spare and you have both sides covered, SWEET! Disc brakes can be swapped in easily too, I've just been lazy and the 11" drums should work fine for right now anyway. Unless a 31 spline 8.8 with discs popped up for a really good deal, I would spend the time looking for a 44

[Po' riggity]

Well said Josh! My thoughts exactly. Of course, if I found an 8.8 for the 100 bucks Im getting my 44 rear for, Id be all over it like white on rice :)
Scott

[SactoXJ]

Run the D44. Yes, you'll still have drum brakes, but they are larger than the ones on your D35. I also installed larger wheel cylinders when I did the swap (much improved braking) :D I'm running 35's on mine and it stops fine. Later on you could add ZJ discs with some minor work :bounce:

[JEEP_TJ_FREAK]

I would never own a super anything that requires a totally custom shaft for an OE housing, I think that is just nuts. Do you SD44 vs. 8.8" with the f#ckup fairy in the mix.

Got water in diff find it too late:

SD44 totally at the mercy of superior, you cannot get a replacment carrier anywhere else. Dependent on superior for shafts too, unless you want Moser or another custom.

8.8" any junkyard anywhere $50, shafts too.

That is the crap I think about when doing this stuff.

[Josh 89XJ]

$50?!?! What yard do you go to? Around here in the Seattle area, you are lucky to find one for less than $300 for the older units with wasted brakes. Newer ones will run in the 450-500 range.

[JEEP_TJ_FREAK]

Originally posted by Josh 89XJ
$50?!?! What yard do you go to? Around here in the Seattle area, you are lucky to find one for less than $300 for the older units with wasted brakes. Newer ones will run in the 450-500 range.

Well I sell whole housings and all for that price, I guess if you need a spare carrier head down south.

[DE Jeeper]

Well, here is a reponse from someone that actually has an 8.8 under there YJ.


My finally cost on the 8.8 was $850 with 4.10 gears and complete with e-brake cables. It took me 5 hours to line it up and weld the spring and shock perches on and another hour to figure out the e-brakes. It is a very simple swap for a YJ or XJ. It is 60.5" long compared to the a 61" stock axle. The width is a non-issue. As far as strength the 8.8 shafts are 1.32" at the smallest point of the diameter. A d44 is 1.19 at the smallest point, which is actually the same size as most 30 spline d60 axles from the factory. I know because I am using cut down d60 axles in a custom d44 FF in the ass end of a offset d44 flattlie. You also get one more spline with the 8.8. It is a personal prefference and money issue for the Jeep owner. There is no right or wrong answere. If you are going to run a 35" tire, either of these axles are a good choice. If you can get the d44 cheap then get it if not, apples for apples the 8.8 is stronger. Also, I don't see why the c-clips are a big deal. You will not break an 8.8 axle with a stock 4.0l unless you dive like an a-hole IMHO.

BTW, some food for thought. There is a Super 44 kit because people break d44 shafts. There used to be a 8.8 FF kit, I know I got one :), but Warn no longer sells it because of lack of demand. This is more proof that the 8.8 shafts are strong.

[Beast40]

Originally posted by DE Jeeper
Well, here is a reponse from someone that actually has an 8.8 under there YJ.



BTW, some food for thought. There is a Super 44 kit because people break d44 shafts. There used to be a 8.8 FF kit, I know I got one :), but Warn no longer sells it because of lack of demand. This is more proof that the 8.8 shafts are strong.


:flipoff2: The reason Warn stopped making the 8.8 floater is because not many people who have an 8.8 wheel them and therefore have no need for the floater. (maybe if they flat tow) 8.8s in Jeeps is a recent trend and the new found popularity could spawn Warn into rereleasing the floater kit. As for the Super 44 it makes sense because a ton of people run D44s and they come on stock jeeps. With the jeep aftermarket as large as it is upgrades to the front and rear axle and every other part are abundant not because they break but because people will buy them.

Maybe because the Super 44 kit increases the strength of the 44 beyond your 8.8 in every department besides ring gear size is the reason you are hating.:flipoff2:

[H8monday]

Originally posted by Beast40




Maybe because the Super 44 kit increases the strength of the 44 beyond your 8.8 in every department besides ring gear size is the reason you are hating.:flipoff2:

The 8.8 not only has a larger ring diameter, it also has has 1.62" pinion shaft, and even that, doesnt tell the whole story. If you remove the ring and pinions from a D44 and an 8.8 and side by side compare them, you will without a doubt, know which one is built to handle more abuse. the 8.8 is huge in mass compared the 44.
Warn did a break test on stock D44 and 8.8 axle shafts a few years ago in one of the off road rags. The results had the D44 breaking at about 4200 pounds per foot of rotational twist, but with the 8.8 they couldnt get an actual result..... because at the 6400 lb limit of the machine, the 8.8 axles were still holding tight.
I can only imagine what a set of high Strength Superior shafts would hold up to,(they are about $120 a side). The Superiors are supposed to be at least 20% stronger.
The D44 will easily handle a 35" tire, but the 8.8 is far stronger in strength, and if built up propperly with a full carrier locker, and a few other easy modifications, it will reliably handle tires to the 38" range.
It took a 300 hp act of stupidity and 38.50 SX tires to finaly snap a stock axle shaft in an 8.8. I beat the piss out of my 8.8 for more than 3 years with no mechanical failures.


Edit: I am looking through some of my files and notes, and it looks like the numbers for the axle strength breakage, was the D44 @ 4600 lbs
8.8 @ maxed out the machine at 6200 lbs.
Someone posted the article about a year or so ago, on this board.
In any case, the Super 44 Kit may strengthen the D44 axle to close to the stock 8.8 specs, but its not gonna be stronger than an 8.8 also upgraded with stronger high strength shafts.

[DozerDan]

Originally posted by JMyerz
Nice part about the SII D44 is if you look really hard you can find one for about $50 :smokin:

After you sell parts off your D35 you'll have coverd the cost of the new axle and have some beer money too!

The brackets will be free because you can cut and weld from your existing setup.

So basiclly the only thing you'll be buying is a R&P Setup!

-Justin

Actually that is exactly my plan. I just found one for $50 too. I just need to buy gears and have them set up. Was going to do it myself but $100 for gear set up was too good to pass up.

So I am at $150 plus gears, ill weld my perches on, get my hands on some CJ rims and hope i dont get a flat.

I plan to do this all for under $400

I am also goign to make a truss for it. I have $200 from making and selling the last set of rock rails and will sell my D35 shafts and gears. D44 here i come.

[Po' riggity]

Originally posted by H8monday


The 8.8 not only has a larger ring diameter, it also has has 1.62" pinion shaft, and even that, doesnt tell the whole story. If you remove the ring and pinions from a D44 and an 8.8 and side by side compare them, you will without a doubt, know which one is built to handle more abuse. the 8.8 is huge in mass compared the 44.
Warn did a break test on stock D44 and 8.8 axle shafts a few years ago in one of the off road rags. The results had the D44 breaking at about 4200 pounds per foot of rotational twist, but with the 8.8 they couldnt get an actual result..... because at the 6400 lb limit of the machine, the 8.8 axles were still holding tight.
I can only imagine what a set of high Strength Superior shafts would hold up to,(they are about $120 a side). The Superiors are supposed to be at least 20% stronger.
The D44 will easily handle a 35" tire, but the 8.8 is far stronger in strength, and if built up propperly with a full carrier locker, and a few other easy modifications, it will reliably handle tires to the 38" range.
It took a 300 hp act of stupidity and 38.50 SX tires to finaly snap a stock axle shaft in an 8.8. I beat the piss out of my 8.8 for more than 3 years with no mechanical failures.


Edit: I am looking through some of my files and notes, and it looks like the numbers for the axle strength breakage, was the D44 @ 4600 lbs
8.8 @ maxed out the machine at 6200 lbs.
Someone posted the article about a year or so ago, on this board.
In any case, the Super 44 Kit may strengthen the D44 axle to close to the stock 8.8 specs, but its not gonna be stronger than an 8.8 also upgraded with stronger high strength shafts.
H8 Those are all good points.... Very good. I know you've beat the piss out of your rig with the 8.8... But... Like I said.. my plans are calling for some 36" swampers... I figure that 44's front and rear will be plenty. Also, Like I said earlier, the 44 rear is gonna run me 100 bucks... so... It was an easy choice since people are getting around 400 for an 8.8 in these parts.. but you are seriously wavering my decision :D
Scott :grinpimp:<><

[bigdude]

I beat the bejesus out of my 8.8 with 36 SX's and never look back, it's a great axle. I read the comparison article mentioned earlier (you can get it from MORE when you order the install kit for an 8.8) and that is what sold me on the 8.8.

A suggestion I have is to look for a small shop specifying in Fords, or just Explorers. I found a guy who does 90% of his business on Explorers, he had 4 disc brake 8.8's sitting at his shop.

I got mine for $300 complete, brakes were perfect and all I did was slap some 4.88's and a detroit in it.

Total cost was $300+$150(brackets)+$500(detroit)+200(gears)= $1150

I don't think you can buy a 44, put a super 44 kit in it, gears, brackets, and rear discs for cheaper. If you can let me know.

So throw out the super 44 kit and just get a detroit with stock axles and you're not going to be as strong, but at around the same price.

I've got the shops #, it's in Thorntown, IN. If anyone wants it pm me. He may be asking $400 now, but I bet you can talk him down, plus he always knows where to get axles if he hasn't got them.:beer:

[H8monday]

Originally posted by 1badjeep

H8 Those are all good points.... Very good. I know you've beat the piss out of your rig with the 8.8... But... Like I said.. my plans are calling for some 36" swampers... I figure that 44's front and rear will be plenty. Also, Like I said earlier, the 44 rear is gonna run me 100 bucks... so... It was an easy choice since people are getting around 400 for an 8.8 in these parts.. but you are seriously wavering my decision :D
Scott :grinpimp:<><


If price is the main issue then the D44 wins. And it is a good axle.
But you should factor in the cost of the Super 44, since you will no doubt upgrade to it at some time, if you are pushing the rig hard. I have seen a few D44 axle let go, in situations that didnt seem to warrant a failure. On the other hand, my double axle failure of my 8.8 is the only axle failure I have witnessed. And that incident might have even destroyed my 14 bolt shafts.
Dont get me wrong though, like i said the D44 is strong, Im only arguing the case that the 8.8 is stronger.

[DE Jeeper]

H8, thanks for the back up and Beast40 :flipoff2: right back at you. You need to get your facts right NEWBIE :flipoff2: before you open your trap. Just because the Super 44 has 33 spline shafts doesn't mean it is stronger then the 8.8. I just got off the phone with DTD and it turns out the shafts are still going to be a diameter of 1.29" with a cold rolled 33 spline and heat treated. The axles still are not a high alloy. The 8.8 still has larger carrier bearings (bigger then a d60), the tube are thicker to prevent flex and the reasons H8 stated above. You are also limited to two lockers when you get the Super 44 and you are at the mercy of DTD. You also have to get one of the 2 lockers because there are no spiders available to set up an open carrier. At a price of $1339 for the OX and $1249 for a Detroit kit, I think each individual should make there own choise based on acurate knowledge.

Also, there are a ton of Bronco's that wheel with an 8.8 rear, so don't think there is no market for a FF kit. Actually 2 things facilitated the end of the FF, one was lack of demand and the other was that Warn no longer wants to produce a kit that is non reversable (8.8 kit requires tube mods). The thing is, if people were breaking the shafts Warn would fill the void in the market with a redesigned kit.

1badjeep,
I agree with your reasoning. I think for you the d44 will be the best choice because of your ecomomics and function.

[Po' riggity]

Originally posted by DE Jeeper

1badjeep,
I agree with your reasoning. I think for you the d44 will be the best choice because of your ecomomics and function.
Well.. economics was a major concern of mine.. since Im a poor college student. For now, Im going SOA on the D30 front, and I'll stick some 95 yj shafts in it, with 5-760's, then stick the 44 rear back there with 36" swampers.. and leave it till it breaks.... Then comes the 44 front.
Scott :grinpimp:<><

[TheHighHeat]

this whole time i haven't heard one person mention the jeep cherokee dana 44, the factory 44, that's more of the 44 i was thinking of.

[CheaseMuddin]

Originally posted by DE Jeeper
At a price of $1339 for the OX and $1249 for a Detroit kit, I think each individual should make there own choise based on acurate knowledge.


I JUST emailed Drivetrain Direct (as in I recieved an email back from them today), and they told me $1199 for the Ox version, and that the Detriot version is not yet out.

[DE Jeeper]

DTD needs to get there act together because I just got off the phone with there rep. around 3 pm EST and that is the price they quoted me. Someone over there is :smokin: .

[Paul Gagnon]

Most 8.8" failures seem to be axle wrap induced. From what I have seen and by talking to people that I know they haven't had issues with factory axleshafts. I have witnessed (and helped with the trail fix) the breaking of a Dutchman alloy shaft but every visual indication was that there was a flaw in this aftermarket shaft. I run 36s on my Explorer with stock shafts and it weighs considerably more than the average YJ. I have never had any problems even considering that I tend to put my right foot into it quite a bit. Granted I don't have 300hp like H8 but with my truck weighing in at over 5300 lbs once loaded with me and my gear it is being worked.

One other thing that is seldom mentioned is that there are more ratios available for the 8.8", not sure if that is relevant but it is true.

[Lowrangerider]

Also if you plan on using the Dana 30 for a while still you can figure in that the 8.8 comes with a 5 on 4.5 bolt pattern.

And big drum brakes will never be the same as disc... maybe in rock country they are ok. But if you live where you have mud then you will learn how often you have to replace brake shoes from all the mud acting like sand paper. Discs are self cleaning...

I got my disc break 8.8 for $100.

[blackyj95]

just ordered my 8.8 for $450 delivered in denver thanks for all the info on this board

It convinced me to get the 8.8 over the 44

thanks again

JAy

[moveaside]

I got a better question/fix for you. What are the other guys you run with using for a rear axle and try to run the same shit as them that way you all have spare parts for each other.

[Todd W]

If it was me I would get an 8.8 - hell I had an 8.8 until I sold it and got my 14b cuz I decided to go with 38s instead of 36s.

Think ahead - in a year from now when you upgrade the d30 to a d44 in the front wont you want to upgrade tires as well? You probably are gonna want to upgrade tires sooner than that even - but when you put a larger axle in the front the only thing holding you back is the axle in the rear . Go with the 8.8 and when you upgrade the front to the d44 you can run 38s! Start busting 44 shafts up front? Go with alloys and CTMS and your good to go..

Don't put a d44 in the rear and drop tons into a "Super Kit" and then drop money into the Front as well - when you can get an 8.8 and then drop the $ into the front d44 CTMS/Warn Shafts good to go wtih 38s in the future!

[u-joint]

Not a bad axle considering what they usually replace in the Jeep market place. Certainly it's not the end-all of axle choices, but a reasonable upgrade in alot of cases.

http://www.fototime.com/70306B347189757/standard.jpg

[ZJim]

I pulled these numbers from another board:

COT: Continuous output torque rating
MOT: Maximum output torque rating
Numbers from January edition of Fourwheeler, page 60.

Dana 35 rear axle COT: 870 MOT: 3480
Dana 44 rear axle COT: 1100 MOT: 4460
Ford 8.8 28spline COT: 1250 MOT: 4600
Ford 8.8 31spline COT: 1360 MOT: 5100
Dana60 semifloat COT: 1500 MOT: 5500


The 8.8 is surprisingly close to the D60 in breaking strength. I got my 8.8 for 200 bucks. I guess it depends on what's cheap near you. I don't see why you'd put Superior shafts in the 44 if you're trying to be economical about it... that just doesn't make sense. The 8.8 is a better axle, so if you can get one for cheap do it! Even a 28 spline 8.8 is stronger than a D44.

[Pinerog]

Isuzu D44! $125.00 Disc to disc! IN California!!!!

[u-joint]

Isuzu D44! $125.00 Disc to disc! IN California!!!!
you should jump on it!

[cinsiti]

I had a 44 in my YJ I broke it 3 times..... So I got an 8.8 after seeing friends abuse them with no problems......I beat my 8.8 like a rented mule.... it never gave up.
I sold my YJ and now have a TJ I am building , I bought an 8.8 and 2 spare shafts for 43.00 here in Grand Prairie Tx. last weekend. If you cant break it , c clips arent an issue !!!! but for that price 2 spare shafts is a no brainer :)
I would recommend the 8.8 anyday over the 44 .......I ran 36" bias TSL's.
Good luck in whatever you decide, the only other thing I can add is , if you go 8.8 weld the shafts to the housing or knock the plugs out that the factory puts in to hold the tubes , and do a nice hot weld in their place, also since youll be HAMMERING on it with the new found confidence put in a traction bar.

[jamesvp]

yeah got my 8.8 sitting in the Garage, waiting on my brackets from MORE. Then it's going in, oh got it for 250.00 with Ebrakes cables calipers and looks to be near new brake pads.
:flipoff2:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/jamesvp/DSC01069.jpg

sorry bout the big ass pic.

[xjfreak03]

The big discussion we're having on the jeep night board right now is the ground clearance issue.

Assuming you've got a D35 in there now, you'll lose 5/8 of an inch of ground clearance (just did the measurements/ calculations this morning) Theres a guy on Jeepnight (porbably here too) that said he shaved 7/8" off his, so you can actually gain clearance with an 8.8. I'm still waiting for somebody to give me the pumpkin height on a D44 at the tallest point so that I can compare it to the 8.8. If somebody can PM me a measurement on pumkin height for a 44 I can get it done faster. I'll update this when I know.

[currupt4130]

how much is too much to shave? ive been thinking about shavin my 8.8, just break out the plasma cutter and go for it but im not sure how much to go w/o sacrificing any integrity.

[cinsiti]

The 8.8 has a "oil well" near the diff cover on the bottom close to where you might shave it down, it gets pretty skinny there so before you do any cutting you should consider pulling the cover off , and doing some measuring since it gets beat on pretty heavily there already. I have seen it successfully done but I never shaved mine down any. On the new Jeep I will be shaving some of it off before I install it, the well isnt easy to see unless you have an empty diff your looking into because even when you drain the old gear oil the oil remains in the well, run your finger along the inside lip an inch or so back from the mounting surface when you bust it open and youll feel it , then be able to see what I am talking about.

[offroadman83]

I would go with whatever is cheapest. I got my dana 44 for free from my brother in exchange for my stock axle so he could sell the jeep he was working on. Junkyards down here want 600 plus for 8.8s and one even wanted 800. They have a lot of them though. I do know where one Isuzu 44 rear is for 150 and I thought about getting that as I have heard that the 44 shaft on the isuzu is beefier than most 44s.--------Kyle

[Hvy_Chevy]

any idea where the Toy axles fit in the torque chart?

[ZJim]

A friend of mine has shaved his 8.8 about an inch. He plated the bottom. He freed up quite a bit of ground clearance, but he had to make a custom cover that he constantly has problems with leaking on. That's another consideration. But if you shave the bottom flat and plate it, you can honestly free up about an inch. If anyone is interested, my 8.8 is sitting on jack stands with the housing bare right now. I can take some pics to show just where and how much could be cut if somebody wants me to.

[spillman]

H8 I was just curious what you where doing when you snapped yours?

My 8.8 has never given me any trouble. Even with a vet tpi. Just make sure you weld the tubes. Got mine complete with a lsd for $350. When I put a 44 up front I sold the lsd to a friend and got arbs. The carrier is supposed to be the weakest link, So you might want to make sure you get a full locker and not just a lunch box. But I doubt you would have any problems with that with 35's or less.

[Berning]

Dana 35 rear axle COT: 870 MOT: 3480
Dana 44 rear axle COT: 1100 MOT: 4460
Ford 8.8 28spline COT: 1250 MOT: 4600
Ford 8.8 31spline COT: 1360 MOT: 5100
Dana60 semifloat COT: 1500 MOT: 5500

Kinda weird how the 28 spline 8.8 still comes out stronger number wise than a 30 spline Dana44. I dont really so how that is when the 44 shafts dont really neck down either.

What gear ratio is the carrier split at on a 8.8, or are they all the same?

-Michael

[JeepinWV]

this whole time i haven't heard one person mention the jeep cherokee dana 44, the factory 44, that's more of the 44 i was thinking of.

I have a 35 and like everybody els I hate it. Im looking for a 44 from an Xj. not planning on anything bigger than a 35" tire. but $ is an issue now so IMO the 44 is the best way to go, I can later when the $ is better get that Super 44. Anybody think differently or think that the 8.8 is a better choice?

what is the weight difference?

:usa:

[Berning]

Weight difference of an 8.8 is about 30lbs over a D35, a D44 is right about the same I'm guessing.

-Michael

[JeepinDoug]

I got my 8.8 from a guy on eBay who bought 2000 surplus units, they were schedualed for the 2003 Explorer year but Ford revised the rear to IRS.
I paid $475 complete.
Sold the axles, r&p and the carrier. Replaced them all with the parts I needed, Dutchman alloys, Detroit and 4.10s for a couple hundred more. I didn't keep track of the actual prices but I sold the axles for $150 and paid $240 for the Dutchmans, the r&p sale paid for new gears and install kit.
One other thing to add to the differences, I remember measuring the pinion to ring gear off-set, the pinion is further below center than the D44, this is why the pinion gear mass is so much larger, much more area in mesh with the ring gear.
I don't think shaving is really nessecary, if anyone knows Chris O, the original founder of MORE and other companies, he has an incredible shaved 8.8 write-up that can be found via google search, or search on the JU.
Rather than go to all the work of shaving my 8.8 with fixtures and a Bridgeport mill I opted to plate the hanging lip. It just gives a smoother transition, no lip hanging at all.
Here's a few pics including the truss and ring;
http://www.crawltech.com/albums/album106/Skid_4.jpg
As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, the oil galley in the lower lip leaves little to no room for shaving without plating over.
The truss is bolted to the ring guard and the ABS sensor housing is shaved. I welded a small o-ring plug to some steel and bolted it into the ABS sensor bolt hole, it's removable. This is not a good place for a vent FYI, the ring gear throws oil into the hole and psi pushes it out.
http://www.crawltech.com/albums/album106/Shaved_sensor.jpg
This little 8.8 has been treating me right so far and it's a nice match for my HP44 1/2 ton front.

[H8monday]

H8 I was just curious what you where doing when you snapped yours?

My 8.8 has never given me any trouble. Even with a vet tpi. Just make sure you weld the tubes. Got mine complete with a lsd for $350. When I put a 44 up front I sold the lsd to a friend and got arbs. The carrier is supposed to be the weakest link, So you might want to make sure you get a full locker and not just a lunch box. But I doubt you would have any problems with that with 35's or less.

Well you cant expect your Vette junk to have the same kind of power as my Cobra mill,... but thats a whole nuther can worms to open at another time. :D :flipoff2:
But heres the story on my catastrophic axle shaft failure.
I was running 38.5 SXs at the time, and we were wheeling at Fordyce. I was showing off in front of a good sized crowd at winch hill 3. I was nearly up and out of the granite wedge at the top of the climb, and started turning towards the trail, when my GF tells me Im about to drive off line and slip into the wedge. So as I started slipping, I decided to gas it out and try and lunge out. Well the rear tires broke loose at the top of the wedge, and the rear of the jeep free fell into the wedge, in 3rd gear low at about 4000 rpms. When the tires bound up at the bottom of the wedge it was like some threw a grenade under the rig. The rear driver tire, launched itself to just uner the driver side door, the rear passenger side moved forward about a foot. I tore my drive line to shreads, snapped and twisted my wrap bar like modern art, snapped both rear main leafs, both rear shafts, tore the shock mounts off,.... it was a total train wreck. It took 5 winches, 2 high lift jacks, several block and tackles, a couple of welders, a few lengths of chain, and bucket of spare metal and bolts, 2 comealongs, 6 guys and 4 hours to get it unwedged and repaired to be able to be dragged home 12 miles over pretty tough terrain. The snapped axle shafts held in all the way out, with just the calipers to retain them......C clips, I laugh, they are no problem with disc brakes.

Well thats the story,...sorry about the Vette Junk remark at the start, but I just couldnt resist. :D :flipoff2:

[JeepinDoug]

Jeff, do you think there would be any rear axle that would live through that, one that can actually spin 4K rpms? :eek:

[H8monday]

Jeff, do you think there would be any rear axle that would live through that, one that can actually spin 4K rpms? :eek:

Well the engine was turning around 4k, not the shafts, but still it was a very enrgetic event. My 14b axle is pretty darn tough, but I think most any axle would have had a rough time in that situation..

[Road Head]

H8, not that I like seeing rigs torn up, but I wish you had video of that. It sounds like it would have been awesome to watch, especially since that was the legendary "broken 8.8" run.

[u-joint]

if anyone knows Chris O

Sure do know Chris Overacker - GREAT guy & friend!!! I spent a few days with him this past summer while I was in CO, doing some visiting & wheeling 21 Road, Billings Canyon, plus a few others. :D Here's a link to his website where he shows some of the work he did.

BTW: Chris is the founder of Bros. 8.8 :D
http://www.code4x4.com/index.html

Here's a couple pics I took of Chris's junk while I was there visiting.
http://www.fototime.com/E043E5AAF6A63E3/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/B9E0D3499C3F94A/standard.jpg

Also, another friend NAILER 341 (Erik), did a nice shave job on his F8.8 recently.

[JeepinWV]

So I would be better off if i find one buying a D44 being they are cheeper to start out building. gears and a detroit is all I am doing to what ever I get now. I have found a D44 for 350$ and a 8.8 for 400$ both are complete hub to hub and in good shape.

what do yall think?

[JeepinDoug]

So I would be better off if i find one buying a D44 being they are cheeper to start out building. gears and a detroit is all I am doing to what ever I get now. I have found a D44 for 350$ and a 8.8 for 400$ both are complete hub to hub and in good shape.

what do yall think?
Don't bother with a 8.8 unless it has discs. $400 is too much, I paid $425 brand new never installed.
$350 is too much for a Dana 44, you'll find them here for $100.
Hell, you'll find 14 bolts for $100, Dana 60 for $150-$200.

[joe_and_jeep]

I gots me a YJ, I did D44s F/R. Only reason I chose 44s was cuz I got the crappy front disco 30 and Turdy5. If I did the 8.8 I was still stuck with the crappy front axle. Building a front 44 would be more expensive. I got BOTH my 44s out of a Grand Wagoneer for $250. By the time I did brakes, TRE, Drums, rotors, locking hubs etc (Locker Price NOT included) was less than $500. Only draw back was having to buy 6 lug wheels.

[Po' riggity]

I love my 8.8.. Im giving serious thought to running it with my HP44 front instead of going to a D60 rear.. with 37" MTR's..
Scott

[currupt4130]

my yj is my daily driver but its also my trail bitch all the time, ive beaten the 8.8 pretty good so far with my 35s and im definatley pickin up some 37inch mickey thompson claws for the trail when i can afford it, id put the 8.8 up to 38's safely, 39s is getting iffy, but thats my opinion.

[spillman]

H8 that sounds crazy. I would have loved to have seen that. Not wanting to see you break, but seeing that much carnage. Wow. You don't have any pics do you?

I was kind of expecting a remark about the engine. I can't help that your a hater. :flipoff2:
I don't care. I like Fords too. Just went Chevy cause of the trany and I knew more about them at the time.

[ZJim]

I'll get those pics of the open housing up as soon as I can.

[H8monday]

H8 that sounds crazy. I would have loved to have seen that. Not wanting to see you break, but seeing that much carnage. Wow. You don't have any pics do you?

I was kind of expecting a remark about the engine. I can't help that your a hater. :flipoff2:
I don't care. I like Fords too. Just went Chevy cause of the trany and I knew more about them at the time.

I used to have pics of the extraction. There was 4 rigs plus mine, all with winches spooled out to block and tackles at variouse locations. It looked like a spider web of winch cables. It was really a tricky and even dangerouse extraction. I know I posted the pics on this board, but I cant find them, or the floppy disc I have them stored on.
Here is a pic of the broken axle shafts.
http://tellico.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/993718-Mvc-011s.jpg

[H8monday]

H8, not that I like seeing rigs torn up, but I wish you had video of that. It sounds like it would have been awesome to watch, especially since that was the legendary "broken 8.8" run.

You know, I wonder if any video was taken of that little mis-use of HP. There
was a club with a bunch of Broncos there taking pictures and being generally well amused by by my stupidity,(they were actually very helpfull in helping us get unstuck), there had to be some tape rolling at the time. If anyone knows of some footage lets get it out there for our viewing pleasure.

[Stonefly]

H8, can you or maybe someone else answer a quick 8.8 question for me. I've searched and either have not found the answer, or just completely missed it.

Is there a difference (shaft size, etc.) in the 95+ Explorer 8.8's, with the motor being a 6cyl vs. 8cyl?

[H8monday]

I found a few of the pics from that day.
Everything was fine.
http://tellico.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/53-673380-Mvc-002sWH3.jpg
I was almost home free.
http://tellico.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/53-673381-Mvc-003sWH3-2.jpg
Here we were just trying to relieve the pressure off the tires to get the jacks under the axle to try and get it unwedged. You can see the rear axle all distorted
http://tellico.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/53-673371-MVC-004S.JPG

Thats all I could find for pictures.

[OkLaHoMaYJ]

H8....you bitched the 8.8 into submission. Thats gotta be one of the worst rear axle carnages ive seen in a long time.

Hope this doesnt happen to me. Im sportin 38's on mine with pretty good luck so far.

[currupt4130]

great pictures, like oklahoma said, you forced that axle to give up on you, it just said to hell with this, im gonna give up. i love the three wheel shot. i have no worries if it took that much to make an 8.8 to break

[JeepinDoug]

That poor little 8.8 had to experience "Shock and Awe".

[ZJim]

Damn, you must have MANGLED that 8.8!!

[H8monday]

Like I said, it took a 300hp act of total stupidity to ever even get a whimper out of those shafts.
Other damage that I did to the axle were the standard problems that everyone knows to address nowadays.
You have to remember, that when I installed my first 31 spline 8.8 it was nearly 6 years ago, and nobody considered it a viable candidate. In fact a couple of years after I installed it, the biggest argument I used to typically get from the magazine lemmings that believe everything they read, was that "JP" magazine had labeled it as a poor choice for a swap. By then I already knew of its strength attributes, and started at the time, a nearly one man crusade to re-educate potential axle swappers of its few weakness's that needed simple corrections and its strengths, which far exceeded the other closest viable swap candidate, the D44.
Many people have now thoroughly beaten the piss out of these axles over the last couple of years, the amount of totaly satisfied owners I think more than justifies its current perception as an excelent axle swap choice for up to and including 38" tires.

[OkLaHoMaYJ]

Cool piece of info. H8.

[Po' riggity]

Very well said H8.. Im gonna be running a D44 front and my 8.8 rear and somewhere from 36-38" tires.. Im not too worried about it with my 4.2 and carb :D
Scott

[xjfreak03]

"Weight difference of an 8.8 is about 30lbs over a D35, a D44 is right about the same I'm guessing. "

BULLSHIT! a stripped 8.8 (no brakes) may be 30 lns more than a D35 with brakes, but 1 person can lift a 35 on theoire own, an 8.8, no way.

[BrettM]

damn jeff!

if you're too wide to fit through the squeeze it's much easier to put one tire up on the other side. but who said anything about taking the easier line :flipoff2:

[psychobilly]

COT: Continuous output torque rating
MOT: Maximum output torque rating
Numbers from January edition of Fourwheeler, page 60.

Dana 35 rear axle COT: 870 MOT: 3480
Dana 44 rear axle COT: 1100 MOT: 4460
Ford 8.8 28spline COT: 1250 MOT: 4600
Ford 8.8 31spline COT: 1360 MOT: 5100
Dana60 semifloat COT: 1500 MOT: 5500

I'd like to see more references on these numbers, how they came to be. The chart seems like bunk to me, its at best incomplete for offroad type comparision. In a lightweight application the 8.8 will be stronger than a 30 spline 60, so in effect the MOT of the 8.8 in many cases will be higher than the 60. The breaking strength (or max torque rating) of the 8.8 will decrease as the weight of the vehicle increases where as the 60's breaking strength will remain the same, this is an advantage of the 60 but a chart like this is useless for our purpose unless it incorporates these factors to each application. Destructive tests done with just applying torque will show an 8.8 to be stronger than a 30 spline dana 60. In fact they may even show the 44 to be stronger than the 60 but as the weight is added to help create axle deflection the breaking point of a semi float or c-clip axle gets lower. As we add weight at some point the 60 will surpass the 8.8 in strength but its safe to assume if you run a light rig you will be better off with the 8.8. I chose an 8.8 over a dana 60 after seeing many rear 30 spline 60 failures in places you should never break. obviously 35 spline 60's are the bomb but the budget was only there for a 30 spline 60 or an 8.8. I know I did the right thing, ford 8.8

[H8monday]

"but 1 person can lift a 35 on theoire own, an 8.8, no way.

I personally lifted my 8.8, by myself from the bed of my truck into the truck of the guy that was buying it,(he wasnt home at the time), and I moved it around my garage several times without to much trouble. Its heavier than a 35 without a doubt, but its no unmanageable behemoth by any means.
My 14b,...now thats a whole different story, I needed to borrow a shop hoist to move it around,..especially when the dually drums were still on it. :eek:

[OkLaHoMaYJ]

I personally lifted my 8.8, by myself from the bed of my truck into the truck of the guy that was buying it,(he wasnt home at the time), and I moved it around my garage several times without to much trouble. Its heavier than a 35 without a doubt, but its no unmanageable behemoth by any means.
My 14b,...now thats a whole different story, I needed to borrow a shop hoist to move it around,..especially when the dually drums were still on it. :eek:
Me to, i moved mine from bed of truck, to garage floor.

[95steel]

"Weight difference of an 8.8 is about 30lbs over a D35, a D44 is right about the same I'm guessing. "

BULLSHIT! a stripped 8.8 (no brakes) may be 30 lns more than a D35 with brakes, but 1 person can lift a 35 on theoire own, an 8.8, no way.


8.8's are not that heavy, they weigh about the same as a 44 rear end. You are saying you can not lift either?

[thejeepjeepkid]

Just to throw in some of my experience with the 8.8- We are running on our competition buggy a healthy 305 TPI motor and 39" Krawlers. We custom made our 8.8 with 33 spline alloy shafts, semi floater kit, allow spool and 5.13 gears (all from Moser). I just recently pulled the shafts from a whole season of abuse and they looked like they were not even used! The axle held up extremely well and we never managed to break it even with the heavy bounces and wedging the tires bad. This axle has a good amount more of clearence then the Dana 60 and can also be shaved, and it is a lot lighter which is important for our rockcrawler. If I remember correctly it cost us just a bit over a grand too. So if you have a jeep or buggy that has to be light and strong, I feel that this is the ticket. We are going to continue to use this axle throughout next year and posibly put knuckles on it and make it rear steer. If you have any questions about it don't hesitate to ask.

[95steel]

Just to throw in some of my experience with the 8.8- We are running on our competition buggy a healthy 305 TPI motor and 39" Krawlers. We custom made our 8.8 with 33 spline alloy shafts, semi floater kit, allow spool and 5.13 gears (all from Moser). I just recently pulled the shafts from a whole season of abuse and they looked like they were not even used! The axle held up extremely well and we never managed to break it even with the heavy bounces and wedging the tires bad. This axle has a good amount more of clearence then the Dana 60 and can also be shaved, and it is a lot lighter which is important for our rockcrawler. If I remember correctly it cost us just a bit over a grand too. So if you have a jeep or buggy that has to be light and strong, I feel that this is the ticket. We are going to continue to use this axle throughout next year and posibly put knuckles on it and make it rear steer. If you have any questions about it don't hesitate to ask.

No Ring an Pinion issues? That is great information. The 33slpine and spool, are they readily available or custom?

[thejeepjeepkid]

No ring and pinion issues! The shafts have to be made by moser in conjuction with their semi floater kit but the spool is readily available.

[OkLaHoMaYJ]

That 33 spline conversion is also readily available for Mustangs. I read in my bro's 5.0 Mag. that they are running 8's on this type of rearend.

33 spline alloy shafts
33 spline alloy spool
4.10's

[ZJim]

Here's the pic of the open housing for those who are interested in shaving their rear end :D



http://www.jeepcrew.com/gallery/albums/album25/88_G.jpg



Sorry for the huge pic, but it's necessary to see into the housing. Judge for yourself where you want to shave, but it looks to me like you could lose nearly an inch if you plated the bottom correctly.

[mad_boi]

Don't know if all 8.8's are the same but mine has a pocket on the inside bottom so I wouldn't be able to shave all that much off. Is that 8.8 in the pic solid cast on the bottom?

[SuperYooper]

Yeah, that pic is deceiving. Try taking a pic with your finger on the inside bottom of the pig to illustrate the oil pocket.

There's a guy in Michigan that shaved his 8.8 and did a write-up on it, let me see if I can find a link.

[SuperYooper]

Ok, here's the link to the write-up, credit to MonkeyEvil:

shaved 8.8 (http://www.evilmonkeymedia.com/jeep/tech/8.8.htm)

Notice the oil pocket in this pic:

http://www.evilmonkeymedia.com/jeep/tech/88project/cut88.jpg

[Peran]

Has anyone every added some length to the short side of an 8.8 to make it so you could use the long side shaft in both sides? Would this work out ok? Was thinking of doing this to mine to be able to carry 1 spare and add about 3" of width to it.

[Po' riggity]

That 33 spline conversion is also readily available for Mustangs. I read in my bro's 5.0 Mag. that they are running 8's on this type of rearend.

33 spline alloy shafts
33 spline alloy spool
4.10's
Does the 33 spline kit for the mustangs require a c clip eliminator? If not, I may eventually look into it.. but my guess is that it does if a spool is involved.

[OkLaHoMaYJ]

That i am not sure about. Ill will look into that.

[Po' riggity]

I see you have a spool in your 8.8 if Im reading your sig right.. is it a mini or a full? If its a full, I take it they made a provision in the spool for the c clip?
Scott

[OkLaHoMaYJ]

Mine is a mini out of a 31 spline stang' rearend. Fit right in and still use the C-Clips. Its Moroso. Pretty sure...i bought it used from a dude that put 31 spline shafts in a mustang rearend along with a spool, sold the spool and went E-locker.

[JeepinDoug]

Has anyone every added some length to the short side of an 8.8 to make it so you could use the long side shaft in both sides? Would this work out ok? Was thinking of doing this to mine to be able to carry 1 spare and add about 3" of width to it.

You could do this but narrowing would be either a sleeved butt-weld or retube. The 8.8 doesn't have bearing cups like the 9" housing, maybe there are Ford large bearing cups available for the large 8.8 tube, then a Ford 9" FF kit would work. The 8.8's housing necks down at the end, the bearing is smaller. The Explorer 8.8's WMS is already 59.5", the couple of inches being chopped off will leave you at wide track width (CJ). A late model F150 8.8 would be a nice candidate for narrowing to approx a 62"-63" WMS but for 15" wheels you need to use Explorer rotors (redrilled for other than 5 on 4.5"), caliper mounts and axles shaft mods or customs. The axle flange is too large for the Explorer rotors, they could be turned and redrilled for other BCs.
My CJ5 has the axle pushed back 8", driveshaft is 24" at rideheight and I have had no ill effects to the off-centered pinion.
http://www.crawltech.com/albums/album141/Overhead_view_x_m.jpg

[Po' riggity]

Thats what I figured.. If it was a full spool, Id do it in a heartbeat, because my 8.8 has the factory limited slip.. so for me, its either ditch it altogether for something stronger, and have gears reset, or go with the no slip that fits in the trac loc carrier... BUT... If this 33 spline thing works out without the use of a c clip eliminator, I may have to look into it...
Scott

[psychobilly]

May find this usefull if your planing to swap to an 8.8. Ford for many years had an offset u-joint that works as a conversion joint from the jeep shaft to the ford flange. I got mine at advance for like 10 bux. Part number in the picture.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/psychobilly/junk_018.jpg

[JeepinDoug]

May find this usefull if your planing to swap to an 8.8. Ford for many years had an offset u-joint that works as a conversion joint from the jeep shaft to the ford flange. I got mine at advance for like 10 bux. Part number in the picture.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/psychobilly/junk_018.jpg

They are a little tough to locate but I got a 1310 companion yoke from Randy's r&p.

[ZJim]

I have been looking for options to convert my shaft to the Ford style. I'll definitely be picking that up! I thought I was going to have to find a yoke adaptor or something.

[BrettM]

are most people using the stock Ford flange? (showing my 8.8 ignorance I'm sure)

[psychobilly]

I am

[ZJim]

are most people using the stock Ford flange? (showing my 8.8 ignorance I'm sure)


Alot of the guys I know are buying adaptors or getting them from Rangers (which apparently use the 1310 joint?)

[Berning]

"Weight difference of an 8.8 is about 30lbs over a D35, a D44 is right about the same I'm guessing. "

BULLSHIT! a stripped 8.8 (no brakes) may be 30 lns more than a D35 with brakes, but 1 person can lift a 35 on theoire own, an 8.8, no way.

I've never lifted a D35 to compare I guess, but I have lifted my D44 and carried it around the garage and have lifted a 8.8 before and one really wasnt noticibly heavier than the other if I remember right. I knew I read info on weight comparo between the D35 and 8.8 so I searched around and this is what I found:

Straight off of MORE's (Chris O's old company) site-
It's features are as follows: Same lug nut bolt pattern. Disc brakes (95 & newer). 31 spline axle shafts. 8.8" diameter ring gear (D35 is 7.5"). 120% stronger then D35. Only 20 pounds more then D35. Trac-loc differential stock (woppie-do, I know, who cares!). 3-1/4" diameter tubes (strong!)

-Michael

[JeepinDoug]

I know of only two companion flanges, large and small. There are also two different companion yokes, 1310 and 1350, 1310 has been discontinued from Ford but Randy's still makes them. I kind of like the flange set-up, dragging the pinion across a rock it has a smooth round surface instead of an intermitant step.

[makeupqueEn]

I paid the $40 for the flange.. I think I bought it from MORE when they first came out of the woodwork with 8.8 swap stuff.. thier prices have gone up since then.. My swap was about 2 years ago..
Scott

[H8monday]

Just to throw in some of my experience with the 8.8- We are running on our competition buggy a healthy 305 TPI motor and 39" Krawlers. We custom made our 8.8 with 33 spline alloy shafts, semi floater kit, allow spool and 5.13 gears (all from Moser). I just recently pulled the shafts from a whole season of abuse and they looked like they were not even used! The axle held up extremely well and we never managed to break it even with the heavy bounces and wedging the tires bad. This axle has a good amount more of clearence then the Dana 60 and can also be shaved, and it is a lot lighter which is important for our rockcrawler. If I remember correctly it cost us just a bit over a grand too. So if you have a jeep or buggy that has to be light and strong, I feel that this is the ticket. We are going to continue to use this axle throughout next year and posibly put knuckles on it and make it rear steer. If you have any questions about it don't hesitate to ask.

I gotta tell ya, its a bit rewarding to see guys like you, pushing this axle to limits with good results even at the comp level. I can remeber only a few years ago, when it seemed at times that I was the only guy on the planet that realized that this was great little axle, even though the only real argument against it was, "it has C clips" or "JP rated it as a poor choice" :shaking: .
Just goes to show the kind of real info that can be gleaned by this board if, one chooses to search, debate, and entertain different options, being used at verifiable levels, by recognized drivers/ builders that we can familiarize with.
In actuality, to give credit, where credit is due, Jake Halenbeck, and his mechanic at the time Brian, were the first ones to suggest to me, (back in 98) the viability of the 31 spline 8.8 axle as a possible axle swap. the research for me started there, and is still observing its growth and popularity today.
Its cool to see how many people have beneffitted from the early years of testing and appreciating this tough little axle.

[Radbassist]

I gotta tell ya, its a bit rewarding to see guys like you, pushing this axle to limits with good results even at the comp level. I can remeber only a few years ago, when it seemed at times that I was the only guy on the planet that realized that this was great little axle, even though the only real argument against it was, "it has C clips" or "JP rated it as a poor choice" :shaking: .
Just goes to show the kind of real info that can be gleaned by this board if, one chooses to search, debate, and entertain different options, being used at verifiable levels, by recognized drivers/ builders that we can familiarize with.
In actuality, to give credit, where credit is due, Jake Halenbeck, and his mechanic at the time Brian, were the first ones to suggest to me, (back in 98) the viability of the 31 spline 8.8 axle as a possible axle swap. the research for me started there, and is still observing its growth and popularity today.
Its cool to see how many people have beneffitted from the early years of testing and appreciating this tough little axle.

I've seen H8 in Reno area, just flat HAMMER the throttle with his cage pinned up against a rock wall....Everything was fine.

SOLD- Thats why I got an 8.8

(and No.....H8- you don't know me but I saw you in Reno :) )

[Radbassist]

The other thing is..........

AWWW (insert your axle here) ITS A PIECE OF SHIT!

Well Fawk - Keep stepping on the throttle and anything is going to break..

Oh fawk.....I broke a CTM joint - what a piece of shit - well FAWK! you were up against a brick wall at the mall you dumbass!

I broke a dana 60,70 80 90 whatever. Why? "Well, I was trying to tow a Gradall out of a mudhole" - What a piece of shit.

If you have no finesse - you need the shit that can't break. I dislike watching you clog up the trail because you were stupid.

That is all

Rant over. - PERIOD

I have a DANA 30 with 35/14.5 Boggers and an ARB - Its not broke. Bite me and FO.

[1x1_Speed_Craig]

I know of only two companion flanges, large and small. There are also two different companion yokes, 1310 and 1350, 1310 has been discontinued from Ford but Randy's still makes them.

I believe the yoke I got (from a '98 Explorer) uses a 1330 joint, which is the same as the one on the rear of my '94 YJ driveshaft. A couple people on michiganjeepers.com mentioned that they bolted the stock Explorer up in their YJs, but it depends on if the YJs used a 1310 joint (pre-'94) or 1330 joint ('94-'95). I haven't installed my 8.8 yet to confirm, though.

Craig

[JeepinDoug]

I believe the yoke I got (from a '98 Explorer) uses a 1330 joint, which is the same as the one on the rear of my '94 YJ driveshaft. A couple people on michiganjeepers.com mentioned that they bolted the stock Explorer up in their YJs, but it depends on if the YJs used a 1310 joint (pre-'94) or 1330 joint ('94-'95). I haven't installed my 8.8 yet to confirm, though.

Craig
You're probably right with the 1330, I always get the two numbers mixed up, selective dislexia.

[currupt4130]

hmmm thats something i need to look into, i have a 94 and i bought that flange from MORE, if the explorers run 1330's then ill just go get one of those because im running that combo joint and its always in the back of my mind. whenever my locker pops the first thing i think of is that joint. anyone know a cheap place to get an explorer yoke? just out of curiosity is the 1330 stronger than the 1310?

[1x1_Speed_Craig]

just out of curiosity is the 1330 stronger than the 1310?

Yes, the 1330 is bigger/stronger than the 1310.

[mad_boi]

. The 8.8 doesn't have bearing cups like the 9" housing, maybe there are Ford large bearing cups available for the large 8.8 tube

I had Currie weld on 9 in ends on my 8.8 but they also re-tubed it with 3 in. tubes as well.

[DOAOFFROAD]

You can get the flange adaptor in either 1310 (Spicer part# 2-2-1379) or 1330 (Spicer part# 2-2-1369) from any Spicer dealer for around $20. You don't need the combo joint if you get the right adaptor from the get go. By the way... I wouldn't trade my 8.8 for a D44 for anything.

[monkeyevil]

Yes, the 1330 is bigger/stronger than the 1310.

Wrong. A 1330 while being a bigger overall cross, has the same diameter caps, and same thickness in the cross.

One could argue that the 1330 is WEAKER because there is ability to put more force on the cross center due to the added leverage of the longer cross.

[monkeyevil]

I wouldn't shave my 8.8 the way I did before... I would cut the whole bottom out and use thicker plate in it's place.... I'm having some issues with my lower cover bolt breaking under a hit, or stress.

This is a serious PITA when it happens.

[1x1_Speed_Craig]

Wrong. A 1330 while being a bigger overall cross, has the same diameter caps, and same thickness in the cross.

One could argue that the 1330 is WEAKER because there is ability to put more force on the cross center due to the added leverage of the longer cross.

Got 'cha, Monkeyevil. I have been misinformed then. Several people (from Michigan Jeepers) have talked about a U-joint "upgrade" to 1330s. I guess I stand corrected.

Craig

[SuperYooper]

I wouldn't shave my 8.8 the way I did before... I would cut the whole bottom out and use thicker plate in it's place.... I'm having some issues with my lower cover bolt breaking under a hit, or stress.

This is a serious PITA when it happens.

I'm glad you chimed in, I was wondering if you were having problems with the cover leaking.

[TrailHunter]

I'm doing my best to understand the axle shaft argument comparing these two axles. Many of you are saying that the bigger 33 spline axles are still weaker than stock 8.8 ones. Comparing stock to stock, I am willing to accept that the OEM 8.8 shafts are made of a stronger alloy and are a larger diameter making them better overall. So why would buying the best alloy shafts you can buy for a 44 that are larger than OEM 8.8 shafts and still be weaker?

Does the strength of the shafts have anything to do with the strength of the housing? Also, many have mentioned the 8.8 has thicker tubes. Does anyone have those numbers. I know many ford front 44s have 1/2" tube which may not be the same as the rear.

I'm just trying to understand here...

[twistedtj]

Seems like everyone knows the 8.8 pretty well here so I thought I would post this question about it.
I am putting in a D44 in the front of my TJ, but the bolt pattern is 5 on 5.5. I am looking at the wheel adapters to convert the bolt pattern to match. Any one have any good or bad on them? Right now I will be running 36's but looking to go to the 37 iroks or 38 SX's, if that makes any difference. The adapters will also get me to the same width as the front.

[currupt4130]

thats something else ive been pondering, how to convert the rear to 5x5.5 or what front axle has 5x4.5 and is still strong. im running my d30 right now, havent had any problems yet, but as soon as i get the chance ill be throwing in something stronger. are wheel spacers a problem with wheel bearings wearing out faster? are spacers any significant loss in strength?

[JeepinDoug]

thats something else ive been pondering, how to convert the rear to 5x5.5 or what front axle has 5x4.5 and is still strong. im running my d30 right now, havent had any problems yet, but as soon as i get the chance ill be throwing in something stronger. are wheel spacers a problem with wheel bearings wearing out faster? are spacers any significant loss in strength?

I sold the 8.8 - 5 on 4.5" shafts and bought Dutchman alloys with the 5 on 5.5". I also had them redrill the rotors and bore the rotor hats for a larger diameter
shaft flange.
As for the D44 front for 5 on 4.5", aren't Dodge outters that size?
FWIW, I'd stick with 5 on 5.5".

[twistedtj]

Seems that the stronger ones out there are 5 on 5.5. I am going with the wheel spacer/adapters to match the width too.
The guy I spoke to said it will not affect the wheel bearings or put a greater load on the axle/shafts.

[TheHighHeat]

I've been running wheel spacers on my 8.8 and haven't had any problems, the wheel spacers ended up putting my 8.8 even with my dana 30 with hub conversion, I got my spacers from spidertrax...they have great cust. service...give them a call

[Bullykatz]

thats something else ive been pondering, how to convert the rear to 5x5.5 or what front axle has 5x4.5 and is still strong. im running my d30 right now, havent had any problems yet, but as soon as i get the chance ill be throwing in something stronger. are wheel spacers a problem with wheel bearings wearing out faster? are spacers any significant loss in strength?


I bought an F-150 8.8

Already has a 5x5.5 pattern...

It's almost full width tho... (about 64" wms to wms) IIRC

[JeepinDoug]

I bought an F-150 8.8

Already has a 5x5.5 pattern...

It's almost full width tho... (about 64" wms to wms) IIRC

Double check the bolt pattern. If it's a late model it's a 5 on 133mm, not the same.

[OkLaHoMaYJ]

Seems like everyone knows the 8.8 pretty well here so I thought I would post this question about it.
I am putting in a D44 in the front of my TJ, but the bolt pattern is 5 on 5.5. I am looking at the wheel adapters to convert the bolt pattern to match. Any one have any good or bad on them? Right now I will be running 36's but looking to go to the 37 iroks or 38 SX's, if that makes any difference. The adapters will also get me to the same width as the front.
I run 38x12.50 SX's on an 8.8 and have had little issues. I did, however, spin the tubes extremely bad and spit the rear driveshaft out. It was a bitch to get it back in its original location but i did get it fixed. I have MORE spacer/adapters which gave me an additional 2'' of extra width per side. add 4'' to the width of the 8.8 (59 3/8 i think) So im sittin on 63 3/8'' wide 8.8. Its perfect i think.

[Bullykatz]

Double check the bolt pattern. If it's a late model it's a 5 on 133mm, not the same.

nah... It's a '90 F-150 8.8 w/drums

Still trying to figure out if I can swap backing plates with a disc 8.8 and bolt 'em up...

I know that part of the 8.8 attraction is the ability to get them w/discs but I found this axle sitting new and pretty (ford surplus) for $50... :smokin:

[Jess James]

Something I haven't seen mentioned much if at all in this long assed thread of antiquities is the use of Torino type 9" housing ends on te 8.8 allowing the use of 9" axle shafts in the 8.8 thereby eliminating the c-clip. This would open up the possibility of using the warn 9" floater kit as well. There are full spool and locker options available with custom shafts for 35 spine and 33 spline axles for the 8.8 as well.

[Hvy_Chevy]

cause 8.8 c-clips break multiple times a day

[Jess James]

cause 8.8 c-clips break multiple times a day

No, but it eleiminates the need to remove the diff cover to replace the axle and also, the 9" ends allows the use of the larger wheel bearings, that way you get larger carrier bearings and larger wheel bearings and the option of doing the floater kit or 35 spline full spool or locker.

[Seubs070]

Sorry if this has already been covered but i didnt see it while reading though.........Can a stock flange and rotor be re-drilled to 6 on 5.5? Trying to match up a waggy front end.

Thanks,

Chris

[currupt4130]

Something I haven't seen mentioned much if at all in this long assed thread of antiquities is the use of Torino type 9" housing ends on te 8.8 allowing the use of 9" axle shafts in the 8.8 thereby eliminating the c-clip. This would open up the possibility of using the warn 9" floater kit as well. There are full spool and locker options available with custom shafts for 35 spine and 33 spline axles for the 8.8 as well.


got any more info on this? ive been looking to do c clip eliminators on my 8.8 for a little while and would like more info on this idea

[JohnnyJ]

you can buy the ford ends from most any axle builder (moser, dutchman, strange, etc.) and you should be able to get the 9" shafts from them as well.

for installing them, it'd be the same as converting a D60 from FF to semifloat or similar searchable info. like in this article (http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/tech/axle/yjrcdana60/)

[twistedtj]

I havent had any problems with my 8.8 wit disks and I have never realy heard anything bad with the 8.8, but if the time comes I would rather be able to swap an axle without opening the diff on the trail. Also full float or semi float takes lots of load off the axle.
Yeah, me too. I tried to find any write ups on putting the 9" ends on an 8.8 but no luck. Can anyone point us to the right direction?

[spillman]

Does anybody have any kind of write up about the 9" ends? I can't find anything in the search.

[txstyletj]

Try looking on www.car-parts.com for both of those axles! I found 8.8's with discs from $100 on up and I bought 2 (one for a back up) for $250 total! The cool thing is with that site you can look up any part and what state or region you are in and it will show all the yards that have that part, their price, specs and stock # along with phone #'s and directions to the yard. I was gunna go with the D44 too, but two disc braked 8.8's from 2000 model explorers with less then 30K on them was too cheap to pass up!

[edubreuil]

I have been running an 8.8 for a year and a half in my tj. 37" IROK's. Wheeled it pretty hard with no issues. Been running with 2" wheel spacer/ adapters to get the 5 on 5.5" pattern, and extra width to match the new front axle. so far so good...

[Racer X]

As a person that was just about to order a D44 axle for my TJ I really appreciate all of the comments added to this thread. I have been sold on the 8.8. Sounds cheaper and stronger. Thanks to all.

Robert

[Jess James]

Does anybody have any kind of write up about the 9" ends? I can't find anything in the search.


Here's one of the writeups I looked at before going with 9" ends on my 8.8. This article covers several other things as well. I have Torino type ends from currie. Mark Williams is a good source though.
Baby Got Back Article (8.8 beefed up) (http://www.markwilliams.com/news/babygotback/babygotback.html)

[lankchevy]

heres a little trick on getting a 1310 flange for cheap. grab a flange off of a mid 90s ranger rear axle. same flange bolt pattern, but is for a 1310 joint. mated right up to my stock 1310 joint in my 88 xj. altho i did have to grind the clips for the ujoints just a hair to get them into the slots. caps and everything else was fine tho. i got them to throw it in for free at the yard i got my 8.8 from.

kolby

[currupt4130]

be careful, a lot of rangers had the 7.8 axle, some mazda pickups will have the right flange also, as well as some fullsize trucks. theyre out there, you just have to find them.

[Bullykatz]

here's a write-up for an F-150 8.8 into an XJ...

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=58187

90% done... Needs a BTF diff cover, tubes welded, truss and chevy caliper swap

[Mike95YJ]

Seems that the stronger ones out there are 5 on 5.5. I am going with the wheel spacer/adapters to match the width too.
The guy I spoke to said it will not affect the wheel bearings or put a greater load on the axle/shafts.


2 months after i threw my wheel spacers on my 30..i had to replace the damn TRE's...so yes they do put stress on steering componenets :D

[Steve N]

:cow:


I can't take this one any more

[BassPlaya799]

does anyone know which 8.8's are 28 spline and which are 31? I just put one under my TJ that's out of a '99 explorer, and i didn't count the spines. Just curious which trucks in which years have the better spline count to help people shopping for 8.8's.

[twistedtj]

does anyone know which 8.8's are 28 spline and which are 31? I just put one under my TJ that's out of a '99 explorer, and i didn't count the spines. Just curious which trucks in which years have the better spline count to help people shopping for 8.8's.

You should have the 31 spline. If it is the newer one and with disk brakes.

[Jrod-13]

all truck and explorer rears are 31 spline.
You will only find the 28 under cars and rangers.

[baglock1]

Just a quick note on C-clip eliminators on 8.8" rear ends:

I'm into handling in a big way on my 95 Mustang. A lot of guys were running into problems with the C -clip eliminator setups as the sideloads imposed during hard corning were far too much for the setups to handle. Doing 130 through a long sweeper is not the time to find out your seals blew axle fluid all over your outside tire.

Currently, there really aren't any C-clip eliminator kits on the market that we can use. The best option for guys who have to get rid of the C-clips (for one reason or another) is the 9" ends welded onto the 8.8" housing. Our problem there is a lack of adequate disk brake choices. For a rock crawler, brake availability should be a non-issue. After all, I doubt many of you are hauling down from 100+ a few dozen times inside of 30 minutes.

I bring this information to the table as I'd bet the average rockcrawler sees similar sideloads to the Mustang roadracer. Considering the drastically increased leverage of your average offroad tire coupled with a much larger contact patch and the occasional lateral slide into a rock, I'd bet impulse loading is drastically higher than anything the guys on the NASA/AIX are seeing.

With this in mind, I would not recommend using C-clip eliminators on an 8.8" for offroading. If you are totally hung up on C-clips (how many of you have actually seen one fail?!?), there are other choices out there. As far as using 9" ends, Griggs Racing has been mating them to 8.8"s for the road racers but they're not cheap ($1500 for bare housing set up at mustang specs)! If you have cash to burn though... www.griggsracing.com

[baglock1]

And while we're at it, does anyone know what (if any) differences there are between the V6/V8 Explorer axles? I'm currently gathering parts to swap one in my CJ, complete with C-clips. :D

[4x4junkie]

And while we're at it, does anyone know what (if any) differences there are between the V6/V8 Explorer axles? I'm currently gathering parts to swap one in my CJ, complete with C-clips. :D
None internally.

I think some V8 ones might've had a difference in the suspension (different brackets welded on it), although I might even be wrong on that (in which case they are infact identical).

[AngryPirate]

latemodel explorer 8.8s are awesome swaps way strong, disc brakes and found everywhere.
explorer disc brake are awesome.
Never had any problems with mine 156k and 6.5 years


you see it in magazines all the time with aftermarket axle builders offering, explorer disc brake.

[Alfred W.]

I know this thread is old but it is still a good one. I got an 8.8 out of a Mark VII it is 62 inches wide wheel flange to wheel flange making it slightly wider than the stock YJ. the Crown Vic's also have them. The price in Tampa Florida's U-pull it Yard was $186 complete with Disk brakes and e-cables.

These axles have the 5 on 4.5 wheel bolt pattern that I wanted to retain.
I am modifying the axle to go under my 95 JY I am very ok with my HP30 up front. So you do not have to limit yourself to a Explorer or a F-150 when looking for an 8.8. As far as the C-clips go you have wheeled with D-35's too much and become gun shy. Totally understandable. I have a 2.5 not an issue.
But if I broke an axle shaft I do not mind the chance to look inside to see if anything else could be damaged.

It is highly recommended that you weld the tubes to the center chunk. I had never done this before so I asked one of the best welders I have ever met and he told me how to do it. I recommend if you are uncertain about it take it to a welder to do this.

I bought Yukon 4:11 ring and pinion with the master install kit for $229 shipped, Yukon 31 spline axles for $199 and a 8 disk locker for $99 off E-bay.

So remember its not just the sploder that has useable rear 8.8 axles.
And I thought that was a useful bit of information.

[Jess James]

Is the Crown Vic rear 28 spline or 31 spine?

[Alfred W.]

Well really you will not know for sure untill you open it up some sites on a google search say that the Mark VIII's with disk brakes have a 31 spline axle
Mine from an 86 mark VII had 28 splines so I bought a pair of 31 splines for $199. to go with the 31 spline limited slip.
The 1996 and up with disk brakes SHOULD have 31 Splines. the 8.8 with 28 splines is still a tad stronger than the D-44.

And I was able at 5'6" 165#'s, to carry the 8.8 with calipers and rotors installed.Also I'm 47 years old, You Nancy boys need to eat your Wheaties.

[wranglerwilson]

I have ran an 8.8 for at least 5 years with 36in TSLs.If you run spring over(leaf springs) use a trus like the T&T customs.If you run an antisway bar a lot of force is put on that axil at the pig. the truss will tie the two tubes togather also tie the pig into the truss

[Dhmoto111]

8.8 pinion diameter is much larger as well

[zainyD]

I'm not sure if anybody has mentioned Superior's Super 88 kit that comes with alloy shafts and eliminates the c-clips. That kit should put the 8.8 even farther ahead of the D44 in the strength catagory, but it does cost some $$$.