I was out running with the big dogs last weekend. One thing I noticed in those really nice suspensions was the extended shackles they all ran.

I am SOA, 2" body lift, stock scout springs that still have some positive arch in them.

I currently rub my springs against the bottom of my drag link on the driver side. I don't rub sheet metal anywhere, and I flex pretty darn well. :)

Extended shackles would raise everything from my frame up. They would give me a little more clearance between my spring and the bottom of my drag link.

Downside is that extended shackles are a little harder on the frame where they mount.

Someone told me that the extended shackles help flex. Anyone know the theory behind this?

Originally posted by Hooper
I was out running with the big dogs last weekend. One thing I noticed in those really nice suspensions was the extended shackles they all ran.

Extended shackles would raise everything from my frame up. They would give me a little more clearance between my spring and the bottom of my drag link.

Downside is that extended shackles are a little harder on the frame where they mount.

Someone told me that the extended shackles help flex. Anyone know the theory behind this?

You might still rub when you stuff, Pat. It's not like lowering the mounts (y'know, like you could do with a Reverse Shackle..)

If you have a spring with a lot of arch you might find your shackle is too short to allow full "flat" and full "arch".. and/or full "negative arch".

A longer shackle would alleviate that.

Sometimes you can just move the mounts to make it work, other times the spring's length just changes too much for a short shackle to work.

Longer front shackles would cut into your caster.

They do result in more leverage on the mounts. A few folks have gone RS after the leverage ripped the front hangers off the frame. :D

Do you NEED longer shackles with stock springs? I dunno.. they "should" be OK as-is.

OTOH, the factory never planned on you running them SOA.. :)

I guess you could argue you get more droop from a longer shackle just because with the spring snapped into a "U" shape the longer shackle allows the axle to be farther down than it would with a shorter shackle.

Its not so much the length of the shackle as it is the angle at which they are mounted.

Here's how I see it:

1. When the spring is perfectly flat (it is at its longest possible length) The shackle should be nearly horizontal, in reality it needs to have some downward angle so you don't risk flipping the shackle past horizontal.

2. When the spring is at its maximum droop, the shackle will be inline with the spring. In reality you don't quite want it inline, to avoid reversing the shackle and bending your spring.

If you have a longer shackle, the arc in which the end of the shackle travles is longer, so you should be able to droop farther. In reality, droop usually isn't limited by the shackle, but by the shock, brakeline, or the spring itself.

If you look at your shackle when you are at full droop, if the shackle is nearly inline with the spring, you may get more droop if you move the shackle mounting point closer to the fixed end mounting point on the frame. If you move the mounting point, and the shackle goes all the way to horizontal when the spring is flat, you need longer shackles.

Don't waste your time on longer shackles. Just put in some longer springs or coils for more flex. All you get with longer shackles are headaches from wrong caster that will lead to SERIOUS steering issues and the leverage at the shackle mount you mentioned. I broke mine out on Caddy Hill 4 years ago. Luckily, I was able to piece it together to get out. Just do it the right way the first time.

Originally posted by Curtis
Don't waste your time on longer shackles. Just put in some longer springs or coils for more flex. All you get with longer shackles are headaches from wrong caster that will lead to SERIOUS steering issues and the leverage at the shackle mount you mentioned. I broke mine out on Caddy Hill 4 years ago. Luckily, I was able to piece it together to get out. Just do it the right way the first time.

Originally posted by Curtis
Don't waste your time on longer shackles. Just put in some longer springs or coils for more flex. All you get with longer shackles are headaches from wrong caster that will lead to SERIOUS steering issues and the leverage at the shackle mount you mentioned. I broke mine out on Caddy Hill 4 years ago. Luckily, I was able to piece it together to get out. Just do it the right way the first time.

Shackle mounts can be reinforced to be long enough to take the added strain. I have 6 degrees of caster built in as is. If I go to longer shackles, that will cut 3 degrees out of my caster, leaving me 3 degrees. Not as good as 6, but 3 degrees of caster still leaves enough for proper handling on the road. I've already considered those issues.

My shackle is currently long enough that it does not get to horizontal when the spring is flat. It kicks a long way forward, but not close to horizontal. At full droop, it does line up pretty well with the springs.

So, I will get a little lift. Maybe move the springs farther away from my drag link where it rubs at full stuff. At droop, it will let the tire droop another inch or so, just from its inherent length. But, aside from that, it is not going to help me flex much at all. Not enough to justify the trouble, extra leverage on the shackle mounts, and reduced caster.

Thanks guys.

I dunno. Go with it if you want. I just know that what I went through before I would never do it again. BUT, with that said, my current shackles are long at 8" eye hole to eye hole. BUT, I have the shackle mount through the frame and the longer springs I put in had to have a longer shackle to balance them properly.

Hopper,

JUST RUN IT!!

Originally posted by jdjanda
Hopper,

JUST RUN IT!!

Did I wake you up or something?
Excuse me.

:D

I AM!!

I was out in the rocks in it last Saturday all day. Out in the snow the week before that, and back in the snow this weekend. Sheesh.

So, I AM RUNNING IT!!!

But, just running it is fine, if you want to have the same rig a year from now, but I am always looking for ways to make it run the trails better, flex better, more power, etc, etc, etc.

Originally posted by Hooper


But, just running it is fine, if you want to have the same rig a year from now, but I am always looking for ways to make it run the trails better, flex better, more power, etc, etc, etc.

:laughing: :laughing:

I'm going to have to go back into my archives and find some old Patty messages about keeping the Hooper Scout pristine and preserving it for future generations to enjoy..

No need for a built engine, the stocker is just fine.

Talkin' about how great the Tracklok is...

:laughing:

Yeah, I was there once too.. :flipoff2:

Originally posted by tsm1mt


:laughing: :laughing:

I'm going to have to go back into my archives and find some old Patty messages about keeping the Hooper Scout pristine and preserving it for future generations to enjoy..

No need for a built engine, the stocker is just fine.

Talkin' about how great the Tracklok is...

:laughing:

Yeah, I was there once too.. :flipoff2:

Yeah, I was watching Crash play in May Creek, and thought, dang that looks like fun....

Now, I gotta figure out the best way for 36's to go on *my* rig next year.

Hey rusty, about time we bought those smitty roll bars.... Poop chute was kind of exciting.

Originally posted by Hooper


Now, I gotta figure out the best way for 36's to go on *my* rig next year.



you don't need 36's for those rocks.... but it sure helps :flipoff2: :D


I'll call on the cages today and see what price we can get.


-mark

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite



you don't need 36's for those rocks.... but it sure helps :flipoff2: :D


I'll call on the cages today and see what price we can get.


-mark

Pat, the 36" "speed-bumps" at the mall are not really supposed to be driven over.. there's another name for 'em.

Some people call them Hondas. :D

Originally posted by tsm1mt


Pat, the 36" "speed-bumps" at the mall are not really supposed to be driven over.. there's another name for 'em.

Some people call them Hondas. :D

Ahhh, yes. I thought they were sammies.....

I drilled and tapped my hubs last night. At first, I was trying to drill and extract the studs that were broken off. Turns out there were 4 studs broken off in the hub. One was flush, the other 3 were recessed about half an inch. I put a drill bit in, but couldn't get it to bite. The stud face was rough and the drill bit wanted to roll off to the side (no drill press. Hand drill.)

So, I said, why bother. Got out my 3/8" drill bit, sprayed on the cutting oil, and just drilled. Then I got out the tap and tapped them all to 7/16". Only problem with 7/16" is that there is no room for a wrench or socket to fit over the head, so I have to convert to allen head studs, but that is not a problem. I carry those wrenches on the trail anyway.

Originally posted by Hooper
So, I said, why bother. Got out my 3/8" drill bit, sprayed on the cutting oil, and just drilled. Then I got out the tap and tapped them all to 7/16". Only problem with 7/16" is that there is no room for a wrench or socket to fit over the head, so I have to convert to allen head studs, but that is not a problem. I carry those wrenches on the trail anyway.

7/16 grade 8, should hold a little better then before. I think ol Burt Reynolds would have a smile on his face seeing you get-it in his old ride. You can always restore it later (just ask me about my soon to be restored by someone else project, wasted two years mess'n with it, now it's getting parted project).

Joe

Originally posted by jdjanda


7/16 grade 8, should hold a little better then before. I think ol Burt Reynolds would have a smile on his face seeing you get-it in his old ride. You can always restore it later (just ask me about my soon to be restored by someone else project, wasted two years mess'n with it, now it's getting parted project).

Joe

Hehehe. I hope. :D Maybe he will ask me and my rig to be in his next movie....?

Yep. These should hold better. I am tempted to yank the passenger side and drill and tap those while I am at it, but I am not that ambitious today. Maybe next week. Much easier to drill and tap them, without a broken stud in the way... :)

Burt might be smiling, but my folks are somewhat dismayed at what I am doing to *their* beautiful truck.

But, you are right. Restoration can wait.... :D

Hooper,

Have I got a deal for you....:D
I can provide you a pretty beat up blue 1974 Scout II body, we can chop it up a little and make it look like a SSII. then you can trash it and save the hooper body for the future. have a couple of :beer: :beer: and think about it.
You know where the truck is. and it will only be missing a few parts. :D :D :D
But then again you could go full custom suspension like me.
It should articulate like crazy when were done.

Ritch

Originally posted by Ben W
Its not so much the length of the shackle as it is the angle at which they are mounted.

Length does matter as well. But your right, if you don't set them up to give you all the springs movement, you don't get all the springs movement.

Originally posted by nwmud
Hooper,

Have I got a deal for you....:D
I can provide you a pretty beat up blue 1974 Scout II body, we can chop it up a little and make it look like a SSII. then you can trash it and save the hooper body for the future. have a couple of :beer: :beer: and think about it.
You know where the truck is. and it will only be missing a few parts. :D :D :D
But then again you could go full custom suspension like me.
It should articulate like crazy when were done.

Ritch

Only part of the Hooper body I am too worried about is the kickplate on the drive door, and the tailgate. The rest can get as dented as they like. I have to replace all the sheetmetal on that rig when I do the resto anyway. (Tub probably is OK). The rest is dented and bent, with a little (not much) rust thrown in.

Thanks. You can hang onto the tub for now... <g>