I was checking out the wagoner machine website tonight and ran across this http://www.wagonermachine.com/new_products.htm
Just wondering if any of you had seen it before or knew of anyone else makeing a similar kit?

HOW ARE THEY MAKING THESE GEARS THAT YOU HAVE TO EXCHANGE YOUR OLD GEARS OTHER WISE NICE FOR THE GUYS RUNNING DOUBLERS

I was thinking that maybe they are machining the case or something. So therefore you have to send them yours then they send you a machined case with the lower gearset. Then they modify yours and the cycle continues. Totally just guessing though.

The real reason I posted this is so someone would chime in and say oh yeah well so and so has has had that for a ong time that is nothing new, but no one has. Is wagoner machine the only one making lower gearsets for the 203. It is cool if he is, but competition would be nice too. (lower prices)
So how about it does anyone know of another low gearset for 203's?

This is the first I've heard of anyone making lower gears for the 203.

Pete

This would be sweet in a Doubler setup. You would able to select 2:1, 3.6:1 or 7.2:1. Running the 7.2:1 Doubler plus my 465's 6.55:1 first combined with my 4.88 gears would put me at 230:1 (which is a little too high IMHO). Maybe I'll do a TH400 after all. $1000 is a little steep though but that does include machinging the case. Wish they would just sell the gears and let me machine my own case. Thanks for the info.

I called them today and they want the case to machine down (they need the cores) and install the gears, they will stand behind their work. Funny thing is that just the other day I took apart my 203 range box so I could build my ORD doubler, I am at the perfect point to send them my rangebox, am considering going with their gears, with my TH400 that I am having rebuilt (2.75 low gear set) and 4:88 gears I could get close to 100.1 plus I would have the strength. I will let you know if I get them, they said they would be 3 to 6 weeks out though.

Guys thanks for all the replies. Colorado if you happen to get one keep us informed of how it is going. I'm going to be starting my buildup in about a year and I have started collecting parts. Two of the ings Ihave is a 203 and a 205 , beggin for a doubler, but I'm considering using this in my 203 case also. I really like the idea of all the optional gears it would give.

Let me get this straight. With the current Doubler, you get 1:1, 2:1 and 4:1 (3.96:1).

But with theirs and the Doubler combined, you also will have the 1:1, 2:1, then 3.6:1 and combine that with the 205, and you get total 7.2:1. So basically, they're adding another shift point, which is the 3.6:1? I'm confused:confused: Can someone clarify this for me?

But if that's the case, then this may be a viable option.....It's all about "options" right :)
Boss

Originally posted by Boss
Let me get this straight. With the current Doubler, you get 1:1, 2:1 and 4:1 (3.96:1).

But with theirs and the Doubler combined, you also will have the 1:1, 2:1, then 3.6:1 and combine that with the 205, and you get total 7.2:1. So basically, they're adding another shift point, which is the 3.6:1? I'm confused:confused: Can someone clarify this for me?

But if that's the case, then this may be a viable option.....It's all about "options" right :)
Boss

Regular -
Both in Hi - 1:1
203 hi, 205 lo - 2:1
203 lo, 205 hi - 2:1
203 lo, 205 lo - 4:1

With the 3.6:1 203 gears -
Both in Hi - 1:1
203 hi, 205 lo - 2:1
203 lo, 205 hi - 3.6:1
203 lo, 205 lo - 7.2:1

I think what you will really be adding is the 7.2 low gear. The 3.6 is close enough to the 3.94 of the 203/205 that they will kind of interchange, so you're adding the REALLY deep gears.
I guess I'd have to use the 7.2 before I can appreciate it, I think I do all I want now with what I have. (62:1) But that's what I said before the Doubler too.
Seems like Fox might have the real point here, it can let you get deeper gears with a higher geared trans and higher diff gears. With a 2.5 trans and 4.1 axle gears you can still have a really low low range. Once again I don't know how necessary that is. I know of rigs running 44's on 4.56 axles with TH350's and Doublers that work pretty well.
At least it's another option.

Now I'm wishing I would of kept my 4.10's! :(

this is good news i was going to transplant an atlas in place of my 205 in the doubler to go lower but now i can re-gear the 203 and save $1000

Originally posted by Ben W


Regular -
Both in Hi - 1:1
203 hi, 205 lo - 2:1
203 lo, 205 hi - 2:1
203 lo, 205 lo - 4:1

With the 3.6:1 203 gears -
Both in Hi - 1:1
203 hi, 205 lo - 2:1
203 lo, 205 hi - 3.6:1
203 lo, 205 lo - 7.2:1

Thanks for the clarification. This seems like it is a good option with the doubler, especially for those running Autos and big heavy rigs like mine :) Maybe one day when the funds roll in.

It's about time they made them.:D :D

I asked Wagoner by E mail tonight if they could make a 203/205 combo with offset rear output like a NP200 and 3.6:1 gears in the 203 section, from a previously divorced NP203 (both Dodge and Ford had them), for my M37, to get me from 57 to 205:1. That's a rig I actually do some rock crawling in.
Charlie

So what was his answer?
Come'awn Charlie don't leave us hangin'.

I called them again last night to ask what kind of testing they did. They have a 5,000 pound toy with 350/TH350/203/205/D60/14 running 44" swamps and they flog it pretty good with no problems. I still worry a little bit about running lower gears (a little weaker) in the 203 putting more torque on the 203 to 205 shaft etc., someone put my mind at ease please. I don't think my leaky ass 350 will put a lot of power/torque through it but I won't always have that motor. Really considering it.

Originally posted by coloradok5
I called them again last night to ask what kind of testing they did. They have a 5,000 pound toy with 350/TH350/203/205/D60/14 running 44" swamps and they flog it pretty good with no problems. I still worry a little bit about running lower gears (a little weaker) in the 203 putting more torque on the 203 to 205 shaft etc., someone put my mind at ease please. I don't think my leaky ass 350 will put a lot of power/torque through it but I won't always have that motor. Really considering it.

depending what 205 you run the inputs very 27splines,31,32 the 32 is the biggest i think and is from a turbo 400 application but you can bore out any 205 front bearing bore to accept the turbo 400 bearing and input therefore you have a 1 3/8" 32 spline out put on the 203 and 32 spline on the 205 the 203 shaft is fairly large and can be splined to almost any spline count

you can't get much stronger

I will be running a TH400 and 32 spline doubler 205 etc. so it will be strong, just wondering if strong enough to handle the extra torque and if the slightly weaker lower 203 gears will hold up.

I understand they first built this when Mark ripped off the front output on his D300. He got to experimenting and decided to build the modified 203 and put a stronger 205 (with 32 spline outputs) behind it. If it can hold up to Mark, baby it's strong!

I've talked to someone who saw Mark's, he said there is a LOT of machine work on the gears, and maybe a little bit on the case. I'd guess they want to case to make sure everything fits correctly, and they are a little protective of their NEW product. They've got a lot of time invested. :)

If you have not seen Mark's rig, see below:

Yeah, that's the kind of stuff I like to hear.

well protecting a new product is a good idea, no way would I send my range box and $1000usd off for a sight unseen modification.
maybe when details come available.
do they cut up the exising gears?
if not what inputs are available?

Even though I only live about a mile from WMS's shop, I have not been by there in a while. The guys stay so busy they don't have time to BS any more. :( My info is all second hand...

We've got a run this weekend, maybe they will show up and I can pick their brains.....

I've sent him email also.

He said the following:
We sell the cases on an exchange basis. You get our case, which is machined for clearance, with the low gear set installed. It can be built for any input gear. We do not need you to send the output shaft. Externally, the case remains stock.

and in another about custom making the input gear:
We can build the gear reduction box with any factory input gear you supply.

and finally about what is shipped to him:
We need the complete low range box minus output and low speed gear.

Basically, it sounds like you ship him just the front gear reduction box of a NP203 minus the stuff the falls off the back end:p and he ships you back a case that has been clearanced in the front half with the front gears being modified.

Having played with custom gears in the past, $1000 seems to be a VERY fair price to me considering at least 2 gears are getting modified as well as some internal machine work.

My one concern would be in how small the input gear is modified down to.... it could make for a weak point:(

That being said, if I had the cash in hand, I'd definately buy this product:p

Originally posted by Lil'John
Basically, it sounds like you ship him just the front gear reduction box of a NP203 minus the stuff the falls off the back end:p and he ships you back a case that has been clearanced in the front half with the front gears being modified.

That's good to hear, b/c the range box without the output shaft and the big low gear is pretty light. Especially compared to a complete 203!!
Boss

Man, that's the truth. My first dealings w/ the 203 were. I went and picked it up at a friends house and him a couple of buddies loaded it for me while I was doing something else. When I got home I decided to go ahead and unload it. (by myself) Needless to say I still have regular appointments with my chiropracter. Dang things are HEAVY!

LOL... no kidding about the 203 being a heavy SOB... I just shipped one and everything minus the chain weighed in at a hefty 110lbs:eek:

That was why I asked him what he needed to be shipped :p

so is the counter a welded piece?
sounds like the input is carved to a new tooth count

I really have no idea. You would have to contact John or Mark @ WMS and ask them. They are the brains who came up w/ this I'm jsut a redneck that wishes I had the money to send my case in.:)