Pendy you can probably help me with this one oh great Camp Counselor

I will be installing a IIA 88" body on an NAS 90 frame. I believe that the 90 frame is longer by about 5" in the rear, can anyone confirm this?

I will be running IIA front wings but with Defender outer skins to give me the option to fun flares if needed, but mostly for the larger wheel opening. In the rear I am at a loss for what to do- should I just find a 90 tub to run and refit it with Series rear panels and galvanize the cappings? Or should I modify an 88" tub to have Defender rear wheel arch openings.

I am caught in a rough spot on this one, because I would like to retain the 88" overall body length (if they are in fact different) to keep my current hard top, soft top, hoopset, etc.

If I change to a 90 rear tub and body length, then I also need a 90 roof and soft top which requires the 90 windsheild to be fitted to my IIA firewall.

Pendy you can probably help me with this one oh great Camp Counselor

I will be installing a IIA 88" body on an NAS 90 frame. I believe that the 90 frame is longer by about 5" in the rear, can anyone confirm this?

I will be running IIA front wings but with Defender outer skins to give me the option to fun flares if needed, but mostly for the larger wheel opening. In the rear I am at a loss for what to do- should I just find a 90 tub to run and refit it with Series rear panels and galvanize the cappings? Or should I modify an 88" tub to have Defender rear wheel arch openings.

I am caught in a rough spot on this one, because I would like to retain the 88" overall body length (if they are in fact different) to keep my current hard top, soft top, hoopset, etc.

If I change to a 90 rear tub and body length, then I also need a 90 roof and soft top which requires the 90 windsheild to be fitted to my IIA firewall.

isn't it all teh 'zact same length??? I'd swear they just moved the axels outwards...guys? I am curious myself now.

I know that 109s and 110s are the same physical dimensions, was never sure on the short wheelbase trucks but it always seems like my friend has more room in the back of his ex military 90, even with the further back center bulkhead.

Well I do know the 88 tub was actually designed for a 90" weelbase. In fact if you move the axle on an 88 back 2 inches, it will be centered in the opening. In not sure on the d90. For what you are doing, it would be easier to move the crossmember that to mess with a d90top. Mathew Jackson has defender style opening on his 88. Infact he used the origional series tub and front fenders. He also rolled the lip back into it to add strength and to make it look nice.
http://tawayama.com/gear/Briggs/Portland%20074a.JPG

-Jeff

Right, thats what I want to do, but I dont know how difficult the bodywork part of it actually is. Anyone have any input?

the D90 tub is just under 56" long measured from the door jam to the rear capping.
center of wheel opening is about 31.5 measured from the door.

hmmm just what I thought, the 88" is just under 52" from door jam to rear capping.

Can you measure the length from the door jam to the rear edge of the fender opening, at the bottom?

Sounds like Shane is getting you the measurements you need. I have a 90" frame and an 88" frame out from trucks now if you need measurements there. The lips are hard to roll. I tried a door skin tool with fair to good results lately.

Flattery is now a camper requirement, thanks 9V.

who has a set of defender 90 rear tub skins i can buy, and hell, front fender skins too. at this point some cash outlay is better than spending 20 hours dicking with each rear fender.

Adam,

Here is what I would do (well I would do it with a 110 but that is another issue)

D90 tub cheap ~300-500 from UK people etc. early ones with galvy capping is where it is at

Series P/U cab ~250 in ok shape to 500 for good shape

Hack to make the hoopset fit and have a 5in section sewn in if you must have a soft top.

keep the rest series and hack the seatbox and bulkhead to fit the drivetrain.

stretching a tub is next to impossible. Shorting (a 109) can be done but man I would not want to try)

The other option would be to hack the x-member off (or maybe install a rear winch on the overhang) and just hack the crap out of the side rear fenders but this will look like hell and unbalanced no matter how you do it.

Ron

Shortening a 109 tub is the easiest way to go. Simply drill the spot welds and rivets and take the side skins (fenders) off. Then cut the required amount from the centre of the tub and weld back together, then trim the required amount from either side of the outer fender skins and seld back on. You can also buy replacement fender skins from parts places in the UK, so you could buy 90 skins and fit them to a shortened 109 tub.

Rolling lips in curved aluminium is a real pain. I have done it before but it is a lot of work to get nice and straight. If you are definitely fitting flares there are other ways to get a strong fender opening that isn't specially neat (but will be fine once the flare is on). Just neatly sawzall out the wheel-arch. Then bend some auminium angle to fit behind (to strengthen the arch) and weld it in.

9V here is my special recipe. I have not done this yet, but, have great expectations. Make a custom door to take up the difference in length. The frame of the door is easy to repair/rebuild. And I think the upper can be lengthened and a replacement glass cut to fit. This would give your large frame some room to get in the beast as well.

JP

Shortening a 109 tub is the easiest way to go. Simply drill the spot welds and rivets and take the side skins (fenders) off. Then cut the required amount from the centre of the tub and weld back together, then trim the required amount from either side of the outer fender skins and seld back on. You can also buy replacement fender skins from parts places in the UK, so you could buy 90 skins and fit them to a shortened 109 tub.

Rolling lips in curved aluminium is a real pain. I have done it before but it is a lot of work to get nice and straight. If you are definitely fitting flares there are other ways to get a strong fender opening that isn't specially neat (but will be fine once the flare is on). Just neatly sawzall out the wheel-arch. Then bend some auminium angle to fit behind (to strengthen the arch) and weld it in.

And guess who's got a shot 109 tub that's for sale. Cheap.

Adam, give me a shout. I bought a new XMOD 110 tub and my old 109 tub is taking up space.

Oh yeah - the axle location for the coiler is different than a leaf truck. I had to move my rear axle backwards 3" to make it centered in the wheel opening of the new tub.

Rovers North has a complete rear 90 tub that's in good shape for 750$ complete. Sounds to me like that's the least fawking around option. It's got the flares and everything, so with some front def. outer wings it would look schwank.

The bodies are distinctly different in length. If you go with a D90 tub, you'll also need the side panels, roof, and windshield frame (or complete bulkhead. There is no easy work around. I shortened my D90 chassis 4" in the center and will work with custom links to properly center the rear axle. I'm still working on the chassis drivetrain/suspension (LS1, 4L60E, flipped Dana 300, Currie HP axles and 3-link up front). Brackets for the axle tubes still need sorting out. I'm not sure if the forward tub supports are located correctly for a series tub but will be reworked as required to suit. I left length outback so the tub will actually sit at the leading edge of the crossmember. That will provide a full width step and accomodate a swingout tire carrier without the associate overhang. Much to do..... :cool2:

9V here is my special recipe. I have not done this yet, but, have great expectations. Make a custom door to take up the difference in length. The frame of the door is easy to repair/rebuild. And I think the upper can be lengthened and a replacement glass cut to fit. This would give your large frame some room to get in the beast as well.

JP

Pendy thats a good fawking idea, I will keep this in mind.

Others-

You seem to be missing my point. I want the easiest/cheapest way to have an 88" Tub with Defender outer skins, reworked for 93" wheelbase. What I am thinking to be the easiest route is to buy some OEM outer skins, and cut 4" off the trailing edge of them, and fit them to a 88" tub.

To create the larger wheel openings for my series, I created a template using a 90 skin. I then fabricated four lips using 1"x1" (1/8") aluminum angle by cutting and shaping to conform. The cuts were welded up and ground flat. The template was used to mark and cutout the excess metal of the original skins. The new lips were affixed with clamps and perimeter drilled then pop-riveted in place. I added the eyebrows by affixing with clamps, drilling and pop-riveting using wide head rivets. The rear pieces were installed within 1/2" of the inner wheelwell and the eyebrows trimmed at the bottom to fit. Since I had no use for the inner liner portion of the front eyebrows, they were simply cut away. I'll take some pics and post to show the end results. It looks great. I agree that lengthening the doors would be a viable method but it won't be an easy task...nothing ever is.

You might want to give Jon Billings a call a granite state performance.....I seem to rember the rig he had at tour de rocks was a coil spring frame with an 88 tub...might be worth asking the question.

You seem to be missing my point. I want the easiest/cheapest way to have an 88" Tub with Defender outer skins, reworked for 93" wheelbase.

Sooo, what you are really looking for is a cheap D90 tub! What are the benifits of modifying an 88 tub? Why recreate what already exists?

-Jeff

not trying to be a smart ass, just trying to get my jr. Pendy merit badge.

Sooo, what you are really looking for is a cheap D90 tub! What are the benifits of modifying an 88 tub? Why recreate what already exists?

-Jeff

not trying to be a smart ass, just trying to get my jr. Pendy merit badge.

so i dont have to buy a new roof, soft top, windsheild frame, hoopset, etc

Adam,

Just set the 88 tub on there and hack away. It will be all right. By the time you buy 90 sides and install Royal PITA it will look like crap anyway.

This is why the PU set up is soo much better.

Ron