I remember reading about another organization. Running Rock crawling events that had classes. Can someone pot the link to it?

http://www.uroc.rockcrawler.com

UROC has two classes, legends, and unlimited.

a few more

http://www.rockcrawler.org/

http://www.calrocs.com/

http://www.nwrca.com/home.htm

:jeep:

DAMN! I clicked on the link and got a boatload of gamblin pop-ups, then the famous 'program has performed an illegal operation' and my computer shut down...

There's also SITR(Sports in the Rough) doing one...from what I have heard I would stay away from them though:D

Yeah, Sports in the Rough hosted the womens competition last fall in the RockGarden, kinda trashed the place, we were left with cleaning it up and had a rather pissed off BLM on our hands. But, they did pay a little for the cleanup, long after they blew outta town.

Yeah, excepy what I found out was that a portion of allcharges are supossed to go to BLM, but theydidn't even know that they were charging! Thats right these promoters are riping off us! as it is tax dollars that maintain it and thenthese slimes come in and exploint it!

good sleep.

:beer: hiccup, i am surely inebriated! hiccup! so sorry.

Brian, I take exception to your statement that "these promoters are ripping us off". Which promoters are you talking about? I happen to use private land, (which costs me dearly) and in June when I use BLM land, I have already told them that I charging and know exactly how much person I have to charge, do you? Next time someone wonders why we or I guess I should say I, charge admission to one of CalROCS events, I should post how much it costs to put on a event........
Rich Klein
CalROCS
530-622-0370

Originally posted by Big Rich
when I use BLM landAs a member of the Board of Directors of the 3rd largest PERMITTED THROUGH THE BLM event in Moab Utah, I can back you up Rich. The permit fees are neither cheap nor easy to acquire.

I believe what most people take exception to is being charged to watch an event that is taking place on public land. The fisrt time I went to an ARCA event in Chokecherry and was going to be charged for parking and entry I was kinda upset. It would benefit all if the where the money went in these instances was made very available for the public. If they are gonna charge, then damn it, make a simple flyer available showing costs and expected income from the event. A small booth with these flyers printed on a single page would make a lot of people see that it really is expensive to do one of those events. But then of course, you'd have the litter problem...hmm.

Originally posted by landuseorc
If they are gonna charge, then damn it, make a simple flyer available showing costs and expected income from the event.I have never seen or heard of any event promoter explaining or justifying any costs. Why would a business man/women want to? I akin this to asking the for explainations on everything I purchase. It isn't going to happen and I don't think it's fair to ask a promoter to do it.

BLM Note: If you get a permit from the BLM to use public lands, you essentially OWN that part during your permit period. You are completely responsible for everything, including making sure it looks the same or better after you leave.

If you don't want to pay to see an organized event, that is bring in the top talent, vendors, judges, etc. etc. etc. don't come. I'm sure watching your buddies drive around on the same ground the next weekend will be as fun.
If you want to know the costs invloved pull a BLM permit and read it. I put in about 60 plus hours aweek promoting along with a real paying job, I won't print for the general public, business information. Just like I won't let the private land owners know everything about my business. If they or you want to try putting on a show go for it........
Rich

Its all a matter of perception, most folks don't know about the costs involved, and they feel public land is just that, public! There are a few of us that realize the costs involved, and since it is private enterprise on public land, heck make a simple balance sheet available. And no, I'm not talking from inexperience, my club, Rock Garden 4 Wheelers has put a large rock crawling event on on BLM land for three years in a row, our 4th is this June 8-9, we get crawlers from all over the country. I was directly responsible for organizing the last 2 and was the central scorekeeper for the event last year (spent most of 2 days in a tent with a laptop computer), so I fully realize what goes on. And, we do not consider the fact that we pay the BLM a usage fee gives us temporary ownership, we consider it a loan. And we don't charge admittance, only an entry fee to competitors to cover costs. Last year we even lost a little money.

And if your club is ok with losing money that's your clubs business.
I won't use entry fee's to run my shows, I know clubs and other promoters do, But I won't. The competitor is the product, I'm the middle man and the spectator is the consumer, and only because of some sponsor $ (not much at that), and the cosumer interest in these events, are the events even held. As a new comer, I'm getting the top talent, because we are paying back 100% plus. At the end of the season, CalROCS will be making donations to many landuse advocate groups, No CalROCS is not a non-profit organization and as a business we will also be paying our FAIR share of taxes, state and federal. I guess I just take exception to generalized statements and assumptions. If you want to complain about someone name them, give facts and stand by your statements, I'll surely do the same.
Rich Klein
CalROCS
530-622-0370

P.S. Brad I'd like to thank Off-road.com for coverage of CalROCS. Say hello to Eddie for me.
Thanks
Rich Klein
CalROCS

I'll being seeing Eddie and/or Fidel in March at the Farmington ARCA, will do!

Brad I'll be in Farmington also, I'd like to hook up and say hello while down there.

Rich

I have no experience what so ever in putting on any form of entertainment on public or private land. However, I have been to concerts in the park (Golden Gate Park in SF) that have charged money to get in. The 49ers play in a stadium run by the San Francisco Parks and Recs Department, and I have to pay to get in there. IMHO, if somone pays the cost and goes through the effort to get a permit to use public land to put on an event, they can charge whatever they want and make as much as they want. At that point it becomes a private business. I really don't think they should have to give out a notice on how much they make and how much it costs etc...Now if they just showed up on some BLM land and said we are here and are using this land and you must pay to come in, that would be different. Thanks to everyone, who puts on a good show. The more people who see rock-crawling the better.

Brad, I know you are still PO'd about ARCA charging the $10 "parking fee" ... Jeesh, at least they could have at least called it a "spectator fee" ....
... but these guys have made good points on why there needs to be a spectator charge and thier right to do so as a profit making organization. Your "hey, it's public land so I shouldn't have to pay" ploy just doesn't wash. Sorry.
But promoters be warned, as Farmington area natives, we are up in arms due to the damage and incredable messes left over from and caused by the two most recent events here, the SITR Women's and the ARCA finals.
It gets everyone's goat here that all meet long the ARCA "DJ" was spouting off about how they were all going to come back the next day (Sunday) and clean up.
Well, they all left town instead, leaving not only the scattered litter, but the heaps of overflow trash around their wholely inadequite (in both size and numbers) trash cans.
Promoters be warned ... clean up your act or you might not be welcome back!
So good luck, do a good job, show the others and the BLM how it should be done, and everyone should be happy, Rich!
Oh, and please don't call the admission charge a "parking fee"! :D

John, youre absolutely right!:mad: But after this little thread, I knda gotta agree with the free enterprise thing, just call an admission fee and an admission fee. I was sorta confusing just having fun and running a business, but please don't trash the place when you come here! BTW, you gonna try to put some wrinkles in that blue paint next Sunday in Spider Canyon, I sent you an email about the photo shoot I'm doing.

I agree, promoters need to be open and forth right in there dealings with the locals. Not cleaning up after an event is outrangous. CalROCS is doing a preclean up of the Moon Rock area outside Reno. There is lots of graffitti and trash in the area, so before the event we will be organizing a mass clean up. My only hope is that when we leave the area does not revert back to the way it is now.
Rich

P.s. ADMISSION FEES are just that, and the only way a small start up as CalROCS can pay the bills.........................

Sorry, that was late night partying!

but this was related to me by the BLM, in Farmington, NM. ARCA sis not tell the BLM they were charging at all. for both the womens and mens competition. the fee they charge was not extraordinary, and they even dammged/cut things they were not suppossed to. they paid no money to the BLM from their fee, which was required. ie the BLM didn't know they were chargin admission.

i was pissed. So should you be. that is no way for a professional organization to behave. this is in no way to include other promoters.

i am NOT a greenie. I am locked out of more trails this year then I could ever count. but it pisses me off whni am locked out and people make money of of running events on public land and do not pay their fair share.

Ug.

Originally posted by brianbonner90
ARCA sis not tell the BLM they were charging at all. for both the womens and mens competition.

FYI - ARCA held the men's event in Farmington, and Sports in the Rough held the women's event in Aztec.

Your gonna inform me? I just left Farmington!
Aztec is 15-20 minutes away. I know full well where they were held. i ran the courses partially. It is the same BLM area.

so you all think it is all ok huh? Tax dollars paying to have private orgs make money? sorry i want mor bang for my buck. you make money on private lands you pay whats required. and that is a portion of the fee over an above the permit.

not to mention a club cleaning up after them.

I see this thread has gone WAY off the intended. A BLM rep told me, while I was in Farmington, while HE was pissed, that if yu charge ANY Fee's to the public, it must be reported to the BLM and a portion must go to the BLM. the usage permit does not cover this. now this is what i was TOLD, after informing him ARCA did charge 10.00 as I was AT the event. Lets just keep pissing of the BLM people, and before you know it they will be like NF people. no ACCESS!

My rants over.

Originally posted by brianbonner90
Your gonna inform me? I just left Farmington!
Aztec is 15-20 minutes away. I know full well where they were held. i ran the courses partially. It is the same BLM area.


Hey DUMB SHIT... You stated:

ARCA sis not tell the BLM they were charging at all. for both the womens and mens competition.

Implying that ARCA hosted BOTH the men's and the women's events. I was just stating that there were TWO DIFFERENT organizations hosting each event. :rolleyes: I participated in both of them.

Hey! as stated this is what the BLM rep told me. go bitch at him. so the womens rock crawling event was run by a differerent org who Might have not payed their way, and BTW, did dammage not allowed, that he was taking pictures of,and your great argument is what?

Yeah, this thread hasn't gotten off track. But, yes, some of the organizations are much better cleaning up than others, ARCA hasn't been nearly as bad as SITR was at the womens competition. Heck, several of us here were there, I spent the entire time there, Jaffer was there, in fact I rode with him a while and we saw some really trashed landscape that people seemed to be shortcutting thru, and I know Lance was there because I talked to him briefly. We are lucky in Farmington to have a very good relationship with the BLM, Rich Simmons, the BLM Recreation guy is definitely on our side, we met with him a while back over the current RMP revision, and he was very easy to work with. But, if the damage continues, you can bet that the million and a half acres of BLM land around here, 98% of which is desigated open, is gonna change.

Originally posted by landuseorc
Yeah, this thread hasn't gotten off track. But, yes, some of the organizations are much better cleaning up than others, ARCA hasn't been nearly as bad as SITR was at the womens competition. Heck, several of us here were there, I spent the entire time there, Jaffer was there, in fact I rode with him a while and we saw some really trashed landscape that people seemed to be shortcutting thru, and I know Lance was there because I talked to him briefly. We are lucky in Farmington to have a very good relationship with the BLM, Rich Simmons, the BLM Recreation guy is definitely on our side, we met with him a while back over the current RMP revision, and he was very easy to work with. But, if the damage continues, you can bet that the million and a half acres of BLM land around here, 98% of which is desigated open, is gonna change.

You guys are lucky. I don't blame you a bit for trying to hold the orgs accountable for keeping stuff clean. Hopefully they will catch a clue. You have some awesome wheelin out there. I enjoyed both Farmington and Aztec. I wanna come back and hang out for a couple weeks and do some (non competition) wheelin out there with you guys!

Originally posted by Lance

I wanna come back and hang out for a couple weeks and do some (non competition) wheelin out there with you guys!

Yer on, Lance. Maybe this time you won't miss dinner.
... then I'll hand you over to the CliffHangers ... :eek:

Originally posted by Jaffer


Yer on, Lance. Maybe this time you won't miss dinner.
... then I'll hand you over to the CliffHangers ... :eek:

I look forward to it! :D