I've got a question about articulation. Does it make sense to have massive amounts of articulation even though when one wheel is so low it is hanging on the spring and doesn't have any weight of the vehicle to aid in friction between the tire and ground. I know lockers get around this because obviously the opposite tire has a lot of weight and a lot of friction. I also know coil over suspension get around it somewhat because of the ability to fine tune the springrate with different coils. So is it worth it to get a expensive slinky suspension that will score high on a ramp test or forgo the whole idea and just get lockers and a cheap suspension more just for clearance?

Yup - articulation is useless... skip it completely...

funny guy:flipoff2:

Well, having a pro comp 4" sua kit, Ive learned to live without flex, and Ive also learned that lockers can compensate for a lot of lack in the flex area, but not all of it. I say good flex can only help, but if for some reason, you don't have it, let the lockers do thier job..
Scott

What do you call massive amounts of articulation ?

For the places I wheel... You want enough that you can roll over snotty ball bearings the size of engine blocks at a pretty good clip, while you gain momentum to attack a ball bearing the size of a cubevan, it takes damn good $hocks to keep everything under control and strong steering to keep the wheel from getting ripped out of your hands. Most of all everything has to be strong enough so the wheels don't fall off if you miss the line, or if you fall off the big slippery bastid sideways everything is still working for the next try... Other than that most anything will do.

How big are the rocks you want drive over? Basically, when your sh@t don't go where you want it to, your gonna need more flex if you've taken care of the lockers. Plan ahead, your not gonna want to build it twice ( if your lucky ). I rebuilt my suspension four times and i'm still not done because my road is being littered with bigger and bigger rocks.

here is a good example of why you need flex, take a rig with no flex and drive it up a 36" tall rock it will be very unstable and very well could roll over. Now take a rig with decent (not huge amounts) of flex and it will be totally stable and controlled in the same situation.

Originally posted by 1badjeep
Well, having a pro comp 4" sua kit, Ive learned to live without flex, and Ive also learned that lockers can compensate for a lot of lack in the flex area, but not all of it. I say good flex can only help, but if for some reason, you don't have it, let the lockers do thier job..
Scott

just like the rock at the end of the street right :flipoff2: Get flex. if you have it and dont need it find if you dont have it and need it you will want it.

Matt

Who the hell needs flex? I'm removing my flexy straight axles for independant suspension all around. Eventually I'll just weld the axle to my frame and won't have to worry about this *flex* shit anymore:D
Really, though. If you're in rocks, would you rather have a truck with ifs (read: no flex), or a truck with straight axles? Both are locked, one keeps 4 tires on the ground, the other doesn't.


Believe me, FLEX HELPS. Now say it with me "Flex is my friend."

STABILTY!!!!!!! u want 4 or 3 tires on teh ground? jiMMy

I just posted my thoughts on this to another thread so I'll just reference that instead of typing again. Below is my post(s), and here (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25613) is the thread which has more.
IMO, flex and articulation are not about traction (if you have lockers/spools), but rather about stability and control. Not that a tire and axle using it's weight to drag down a buggy spring is helping that much but, if there is weight remaining on the tire, then radical violent shifts in orientation are at least partially controlled by shocks and springs. The shock thing helps even if there is *no* weight on the tire before the shift. With a stiff suspension, you can easily surprised by the speed that a vehicle can shift, dropping a tire until it hits rather than soaking it up in a shock. Perhaps even causing a role where a more flexy, properly designed suspension would have shifted with more control
Yes, overly flexy suspensions that allow a great deal of body roll can be bad. You can also wind up dropping a tire into a hole and breaking things.

It's all about balance and proper design. I have no burning desire to build a ramp queen that ramps 1000+ on a 30 degree ramp, but, I also don't want to lift tires pulling up on a curb. If you keep the springs relatively out-board on the axles, and don't let them just flop free like some of the setups I've seen on ramp queens (which can lead to rapid unloading and rolling), plus keep the shocks as far out as possible (and not angled in to the point where they don't control body role) then the flex shouldn't hurt unless it does let the tire drop into a hole. These are the things that are on my mind as I start the suspension work on my project...

I gues I should have phrased my question better. I understand the benefits of flex but when is it too much flex? I mean does it make sense to get so much that your axels are perpendicular to each other or are you going to have such a challenge to keep the vehicle stable that it won't be worth it or is that a vehicle specific apllication where vehicle weight,wheelbase length and driver skill all affect the final design?

one word describes the perfect rig. "balance"

if you are looking for a one size fits all answer to your question good luck , this question has been beat to death in the last couple of years , if you want a number to shoot for try 24" of tot artic at each axle and i think you will be very happy with the compromise

i agree its all about balance if you have lockers you dont need to worry about traction they will fix that for you. balance of everything will make for a much more fun offroad experience. ive got 24" wheel travel and have no problem going were i wanna :p