<FONT COLOR="Red"> Actually that was an EXCERPT from a post where I replied to a statment where someone else asked if POR was worse for banners than porn sites...

Here is the ENTIRE post that I made:

"POR used to be THE 4x4 site... Banners & pop-ups don't bother me, after all the site has to be paid for somehow. The problem was that hardly any of the banners were 4x4 related...

On the other hand, I don't feel "cheap" for not paying the $20.. It's certainly not because I can't afford it, it's the principle. 90% of the time I'm answering other peoples questions, and I don't feel that I should have to pay for helping out. After all, it was the value of knowledge of the original people over there that made that BBS what it was.

Now at the POR BBS, it's too bad that more of a premium is placed on serving up soft core porn and worthless threads that say nothing more than "you suck". That along with all of the useless posts and poser people who make them has ruined that BBS. On the other hand, I'm not gonna whine to the admin about it, I just choose not to visit there very much anymore.

For those of us that are purely into 4x4 and tech, there are plenty of other sites that have "stepped up to the plate" to take POR's place.. "

Now, before the flame war ensues, at least read the response that I made back to Lance in my next post in this thread.

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<img src="http://www.lanset.com/ecvslick/wayslicker1.jpg" border="0" alt=""><FONT COLOR="Black">.</FONT c><FONT COLOR="Red">Slick</FONT c> - 83' bobbed & lockt posuer-mall rig & held together w/numerous <FONT COLOR="Red">Clamps...</FONT c><img src="http://www.lanset.com/ecvslick/slick.gif" border="0" alt="">

on January 22nd, 2002, 5:36pm, Lance wrote:Ummmm, why would you go to the chit chat area for tech? This makes no sense? The General 4x4 and other tech related pages are FULL of tech. No girls, no "you suck", etc.... I don't get this mentality?



<FONT COLOR="Red"> Well, let me start off by saying that there are indeed lots of excellent threads / stickys / discussions on tech issues on the vehicle specific forums. So to explain how chit-chat has DILUTED the POR BBS's specific forums (for me anyways) would be two different issues. Here they are:

1) While the chit-chat section has attracted large numbers of new visitors, it has severly diluted the "technical nature" of too many of the questions posted in various threads. Too many of the newcomers don't seem to know one end of a wire from the other and want someone to spell out the the most simple of basics.. So most of the discussion threads USED to start off needing deeper / or revealing more technically difficult information. For me having a limited time to spend (on dial-up jus like you) I have to surf more threads to find anything interesting or decide if I really want to respond and get myself into an exchange that I'm gonna have to respond a bazillion times to.

To add to issue # 1 here, I would say that too many people want to flame newbies for simply showing up and asking a question because that's "the cool thing to do here" without ever really knowing why that happened there in the first place. How many members were there back when Seabass lit that fucking newbie up for posting a question that had already been asked on the SAME PAGE? I laughed my ass to tears when I saw that the first time or two, but now it's almost an "urban legend" over on the POR BBS to flame someone. Since not everyone in the world has my rip-roaring sense of humor, I've seen some people I think may have been able to contribute knowledgable content leave never to return..

2) Hosting all of the bullshit on the chit-chat page (that really has nothing to do w/extreme 4x4) consumes more of the server's storage resources, not to mention the bandwidth required to serve them up. And YES I have to admit that I have posted in the chit-chat too...OK. But I really rarely ever visit any of the threads with loads of pix due to download times.

So, I think all of this non-4x4 related material is what neccessited the BSS becoming a "pay site". Yes, I know it's not really a "true" pay site, but that's because I have my own web space to post my photos in. While it's only slightly more difficult for someone who knows computers a bit, most people (who may have valuable info to contribute) don't think it's worth the extra effort to share info due to having to jump through the extra hoops to figure it all out...

How do I know this? I guess it's because I get less e-mail from other POR BBS'ers about tech issues that I have contributed on. Now the bulk of mail coming from those same people is: Slick, how can I post photos like you?.. Slick, how can I get my signature line to work like your's?.. Slick, how do you blah blah blah... I also send a lot of people to the POR site who are relatively new to wheeling but may have a wealth of tech info in some other area (like transmissions maybe). Now these other people seem to tell the same things that I'm writing here.

OK, so this all being said, I want cha to know that I'm not knocking you for having made the changes you did. On the contrary, I think you have made some absolutely brilliant decisions in cashing in on the the BBS as a whole. All I'm saying is that the recent evolution of the POR BBS has resulted in less overall satisfaction for me as both as visitor and contributor from the perspective of 4x4 content. And NO, I don't want to see the "attitude" over there dry up either because it helps keep it fun and interesting, but too many of the really lame attempts leave me shaking my head.

Please, let me know if I'm somehow WAY off base in my thoughts here... (I'm sure you will) </FONT c>

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<FONT COLOR="Red"> Now I'm gonna go back an read all the nice things that people were guessing about the "idiot" that said that... Shit, this is gonna turn into the same kind of garbage that the DRM vs. Curtis threds do, So I will Apologise up front for this NOT being posted in the PROPER furum.

I'm merely exercising what I see as "fessing up to making that post" in the exact forum where Lance presented it.

FLAME SUIT ON AND FULLY SEALED..... BRING IT ! ! !</FONT c>

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<img src="http://www.lanset.com/ecvslick/wayslicker1.jpg" border="0" alt=""><FONT COLOR="Black">.</FONT c><FONT COLOR="Red">Slick</FONT c> - 83' bobbed & lockt posuer-mall rig & held together w/numerous <FONT COLOR="Red">Clamps...</FONT c><img src="http://www.lanset.com/ecvslick/slick.gif" border="0" alt="">

Slick I think all your points are valid,the real problem may be that you posted them on another board and not here first.

God dam it, stop with the red it herts the eyes jesus cryst are you color bling. for a$$ sake!!!!
:flipoff2:
j/k.

I came hear because the Binder Bulliton was down and I needes some 4by advice so I joind

Originally posted by Slick
<FONT COLOR="Red"> To add to issue # 1 here, I would say that too many people want to flame newbies for simply showing up and asking a question because that's "the cool thing to do here" without ever really knowing why that happened there in the first place. How many members were there back when Seabass lit that fucking newbie up for posting a question that had already been asked on the SAME PAGE? I laughed my ass to tears when I saw that the first time or two, but now it's almost an "urban legend" over on the POR BBS to flame someone. Since not everyone in the world has my rip-roaring sense of humor, I've seen some people I think may have been able to contribute knowledgable content leave never to return..</font c>

I find no fault with this paragraph.

I will have to agree with slick because I have seen alot of newbies run off by people flaming them for a question and most of the time it is someone that has been a member for 1-2 months with 500+ post it seems to me they are the downside to this board not the newbies trying to get some tech help

Originally posted by R O
Slick I think all your points are valid,the real problem may be that you posted them on another board and not here first.

<FONT COLOR="Red"> Actually I did post these sentiments on this BBS first, although it was "considerable subject creep" considering the title of that post.. I'll see if I can dig it up, as it might make more "flamable" reading for the crazies here..:D </FONT c>

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Slick I think your problem is you like the BB of old that had less then 500 people. Your percentage of posts to BS was less. (Almost none existent) BUT there are now almost 10,000 people on this bb. Not all of these people are going to be Hardcore ARCA competitors. So in my opinion you must take the good with the bad. And like I stated in Lance's thread if you can't find tech on this BB you need to sale your rig because no one could help you. The core group, for the most part, is still on the BB. This BB has a lot of power, ask any of the vendors on the BB. So use it for what it is.


I value your tech knowledge and thank you for the contribution in the past but if you don't like the way the BB is going find another Tech forum. Simple

i posted on the one lance put up, and i think this site is great. but i do belive you have a point about the chit chat section and flaming newbies. i have seen newbies get flamed pretty bad and i sent some of them here myself. and they are a lot more knowledgeable that the idiots that flame them. so i have to agree with alot of your post. but damn this is sounding like it should be in chit chat.

I've been here a long time.
Actually more than three years and this site has really gone on to be the "comfy couch" I like to surf POR as the day gets shitty here at work and I sit in my office for lunch. I laugh, steal concepts and live vicariously while I modify my own rig at home.

As anything evolves, it never is the same as it was.
I think Lance and the other admin people deserve a big round of applause in keeping up with the demand which this site has generated.

I have found so much great information here that I have stopped peeking at the 4x4 mags in the market and my wife is awestruck by it!


Thanks Lance, this is still a great place to hang!



:beer: :beer: :beer:

Slick, I am sorry if you think I happen to be part of the problem in chit-chat. I use it because it is there. I was posting to POR before 99.999% of the people here even knew what this place was, and I am more than willing to use this BBS with or without the chit-chat section... if it was gone tomorrow, I would not miss it... too much ;)

But I can tell you this, that because of chit-chat, in just the last few months alone:
1. I saved HUNDREDS of dollars on advice about wiring up my shop
2. I saw a link to a web site (www.terrafly.com) that I passed on to a middle school social studies teacher who will use that in his class to help educate his kids
3. I got help with some networking issues on a
laptop I was working on
4. I have gotten some great landscape images to use on the desktop for my computer
5. I had information about the 9-11 bombings before the TV even reported them
6. I get virus updates warnings before C-Net sends out their alert emails

I could continue on, but I think the point is that chit-chat CAN be used as a valuabe tool for things other than just idle banter...

But you know, I know for a fact that for every post I make in chit chat, I have just as many in the REAL tech forums asking questions or trying to answer them. I feel like I contribute my fair share, so me cutting up in chit-chat is more that justified.

What I cannot understand are the people who only go to chit-chat and offer exactly ZERO techinical experience elsewshere on this site. I consider that to be "part of the problem".

Your points about flaming newbies is valid as well - I can't stand it either. My only gripe (And what I will delete threads for in the Toyota section) is when you see a newbie post, and just 3 posts down the screen from that one is someone else's thread asking the same question.
That tells me they are not paying attention in the first place, so they do not deserve my help (which I more than likely already offered in the other thread to start with!)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DRM
[B]Sl . I use it because it is there. I was posting to POR before 99.999% of the people here even knew what this place

99.999%?
if this was true you would have posted here before
100,000 people here have posted here. and there isnt 100,000 people here so WTF

Originally posted by mossberg
[B99.999%?
if this was true you would have posted here before
100,000 people here have posted here. and there isnt 100,000 people here so WTF [/B]

First off, this has nothing to do with this thread. But for your information, I can tell you that there were probably less than 40 people who were posting to POR when I first came around, and since this is like the 3rd BBS re-incarnation since then, the current member count is completly irrelevant since even some of those originally 40 or so people are long gone by now.

I started visiting POR back when my own club web site - www.tennessee4x4.com - was literally blowing POR out of the water on traffic (if that tells you how long ago it was :p )

Point is - YOU and the VAST MAJORITY of people here are ALL "newbies" to a few of us :p

yeah well that dosent change the fact about you posting
that you have been here before 99.999% of the people here.
and i am proud to be a newbie.:p

Originally posted by mossberg
yeah well that dosent change the fact about you posting
that you have been here before 99.999% of the people here.
and i am proud to be a newbie.:p

Fine... 99.9%... sheesh :rolleyes: :p

<FONT COLOR="Red"> For the folks who think that "I feel this site sucks", that's simply not true. This site still DOES have the best collection of good tech from people who build their own projects.

The statement (reply) I made on another 4x4 BBS (that Lance excerpted) was made IN DEFENCE of POR's use of banners & pop-ups to pay for the site. I DID digress that the site had gone down hill for me in some respects and I replied as to how I felt supporting the chit-chat was a major contributing factor. I'd also hate to see our "lively debators", like DRM and other leave, as their "searing insights to our modern problems" never fails to amuse me.
I actually like the chit-chat for the "debate factor". I even like laughing at the photo chops, even tho they're a waste of bandwidth.

My whole point in my observations was that a lot of the material posted there was a waste of resources that made increased funding (IE: red stars) necessary. And yes, there are to many visitors that become immersed in chit-chat while offering zero anything in any of the other forums.

Thr truth is Lance made some compromises in keeping this BBS going and I think he knows that. Otherwise he wouldn't have cared enough to start the thread asking everyone one if they though there was enough tech on the BBS.

The whole point of my feelings is that these compromises have somewhat "watered down" the content and have made it more difficult to find what you're looking for. I also think this tends to drive away people who have good thing to share...and I hate to see those type of people (who are like the original here) go away to somewhere else.. </FONT c>

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Originally posted by syko
BUT there are now almost 10,000 people on this bb. Not all of these people are going to be Hardcore ARCA competitors

originally posted by DRMWhat I cannot understand are the people who only go to chit-chat and offer exactly ZERO techinical experience elsewshere on this site. I consider that to be "part of the problem".

This right here I believe to be the problem. Actually you 2 are being too soft on the majority of the "chit-chatters". It seems that the PBB has gotten to be such the "cool place" to hang out that the majority of the chit-chatters aren't even 4-wheelers!!!!! I'll be the 1st to admit that I am still a relative "newbie" to the board and that the majority of my posts are in the chit-chat forum. This is mostly because my 2 trucks are not covered by a tech forum. I do read general 4x4 everyday and occasionally post and lately have been paying close attention to the Suzuki forum because I am contemplating picking up a sammi.

Slick..way to stand up and take credit(?)

slick i too miss the way it was. the fact is that we have grown and there are many people who work hard at keeping it as true to our roots as possible. in our hearts we all know we need the newbies but if we didn't flame them they would all stay and we do not want every wheeler to be a member of our site. so by flaming the new guys it keeps our growth in check and just leaves us with the heartest of souls. it might no be a perfect system but it is our system. as far as flaming you i will not but i would request that you share your ideas of how to make this place better or keep it like it was you WOULD share your ideas with myself or lance. as one of the older members of this BB we value and rely on this input from members like yourself. i will readliy admit that there is plenty of Bullshitting in the tech section and i delete a fair share of it but i leave alot of in place for the entertainment value cause if you think of what it would be like with 100 % tech this place would be as much fun as reading a set of instructions on how to asseble IKEA furniture.

Originally posted by DRM


Your points about flaming newbies is valid as well - I can't stand it either. My only gripe (And what I will delete threads for in the Toyota section) is when you see a newbie post, and just 3 posts down the screen from that one is someone else's thread asking the same question.
That tells me they are not paying attention in the first place, so they do not deserve my help (which I more than likely already offered in the other thread to start with!)

YES! I'am trying to stop flaming newbies so much, I'am a newbie flamaholic and my name is SeaBass44 and I need help:flipoff2: sorta:flipoff2: I remember back when this was a one page bb and Lance, dogwalker and maybe 20 others were here. It wasa no big deal of a bb, but it got me to the con where I met Lance and others here so I started to hang out ast pirate before it was a big deal.Glade I stuck around:) If u ever get to the con as a newbie and break down, hope u r as lucky as me to run into a pirate that will fix u up, among others trhat helped me out.Like I said I'am trying to ease up on newbies.

Folks, what we're experiencing are growing pains, and unless those in charge decide to make serious changes, it's something we're going to have to live with.

I like to think that I have made my share of contributions on this BBB, especially on the Land Cruiser forum, which is what I know best. At the same time, I gratefully acknowledge that I have learned a *lot* from you, and that's why I decided to pay the $20 contributions. I realize that there is a lot of effort involved in the maintenance of this site, and the $20 seemed reasonable. FWIW, I've only been to the chit-chat section a couple of times in the past year, so I don't have much experience with it and don't know what percentage of the traffic and bandwidth generated by this site they account for...

As for the flaming of newbies, I got my share when I first came onboard, mostly related to my poor command of the BBB's procedures for posting (especially pictures). I don't mind the ocassional moron getting flamed for asking a question willy-nilly without checking the archives, but flaming someone just because they don't know about a topic is absurd and counter-productive. *Nobody* here was born knowing about wheeling, and I've *personally* seen some of the loudest members of this BBB do some pretty STUPID stuff on the trails...

In conclusion, :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Originally posted by camo
i would request that you share your ideas of how to make this place better or keep it like it was you WOULD share your ideas with myself or lance.
I aggree with Camo
It is very easy to pick at shortcomings. How would you manage 10,000 people in a free speech environment?

Originally posted by camo
i would request that you share your ideas of how to make this place better or keep it like it was you WOULD share your ideas with myself or lance. as one of the older members of this BB we value and rely on this input from members like yourself.

<FONT COLOR="Red"> The major thing that I would have done differently has to do with the banners. I never click on ones that have no interest to me. But I HAVE clicked on every 4x4 related banner that I've seen. So, directed advertisements would have been my choice over "red stars". I think that there's enough traffic here that decent 4x4 vendors would pay a nominal fee for their banner to be here. I also don't think that anyone would be as apt to complain if the banners were 4x4 related either.

I never really mentioned that I thought this was the way to go because Lance once said that this would be a lot of work. And yeah, I know he's overworked here, which is why I rarely ever e-mail him.

To be real honest, I USED to have an website and wound up having to take it down because I could not keep up with the inquiries. So, I'd like to think that I do have an idea of how much work this all takes.

Thanks for being constructive on this, Camo.
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slick...i agree that would be awesome. only problem is that lance has not been able to find a ad agency that offers that option. if you know of one please let us know it would make this a better site.

The bottom line is simple, IMO... The Chit Chat forum was created FOR A REASON.... Im sure there are plenty of people here that remember what that reason is.... Buller? Buller? Buller? That's right, it was to eliminate 99% of the chit chat that was going on in the TECH forums. And it succeeded for the most part. There's no way for it to ELIMINATE it, but it made/makes a huge difference. Believe me, if I were to axe chit chat tomorrow, the tech forums would become :rainbow: very quickly. I don't mind some good old newbie ribbing, but the newbies flaming other newbies, etc. is very lame. But this is difficult to control. We can
't control what other people type.

Remember, this site isn't the "beginner's guide to four wheeling" site. It is supposed to be for the more experienced guys. The beginners would feel more at home at 4x4wire or ORC or JU. Trust me, we aren't "loosing newbies to flaming" in droves. We will be hitting our all time record this month for visitors (about 300,000+ <b>unique</b> visitors with 4,000,000 page views). Each month our readership/traffic goes up. It has NEVER gone down. Numbers don't lie. It ain't easy "managing" a site of this magnatude. If you think it is, you're kidding yourself. Every desicion I make affects all of the readers. Sometimes I make a bad desicion, but I think for the most part we are doing better than anyone else out there that has a site with more than a couple hundered members. As far as bandwidth goes, Bill and I have done a number of things as of late to keep it under control. Eliminating free-for-all uploading is one of them. This saved us LOTS of bandwidth and server space, because now people aren't using us as a picture hosting service. Now only a couple hundered people (red star people) can upload. This made an enourmous difference. We've also done some other "geeky" stuff to keep our ISP happy. Bandwidth isn't a problem <i>right now</i>. ;)

Keep the comments coming. Like camo said, give us your thoughts. You aren't gonna hurt our feelings!

My $0.02

If you do a search with my user name you will see that the majority of my posts are in the Chit-chat section. The reason for this is because you guys are way to smart for me in the technical sections. :flipoff2: I have been building rigs for about 6 years now but the thing to remeber is all but one of these rigs were "POSER" rigs that had huge blocks and were quite scary to drive on the wighway. The last rig I built was quite capable but I had no clue what I was doing and pretty much took a complete Chevy undercarige and put a FJ-55 body on it and cut anything that didn't fit. Until I came here I never even knew what I had I just thought it looked cool. Well I have since sold that rig and am completely broke so no new project for a little while. I guess I don't feel that I have much to contribute right now however I appreciate everything that you experianced people post. I have learned soooooooooo much and appreciate the fact that now I know how to build a true trail rig. I would say that I probably spend more time in the technical forums than the chit-chat it is just that I can acctually offer something to the chit-chat. Once I have some more experiance under me I will post to the technical forums but PLEASE don't quit posting just because you aren't learning anything new. You have to teach the new generation what the 4-wheeling is all about.

:beer: :beer: :beer: 's for all you technical people. :flipoff2:

I personally dig this BB. Its loaded with some smart mofo's , and it seems that people are more than happy to share their information. I do think Slick has some valid points , and maybe we can improve abit by listening to his comments. I personally have NEVER gotten any non tech email- its always the same -welding tech! which is cool since that is where I can help someone the most. I have never asked Slick personally any questions but I can assure you that I have indeed learned things from him via other posts- thanks Slick.
Also thanks to Lance, and moderators, and all of the countless members who contribute to the wealth of knowlege this site!
(in my best southern voice) Y'all get it!
weldpro

Hmm, we'll it took me a while to decide if I wanted to contribute anything to this thread. So here are my flame retardant 2 cents.

I think that the 2 most unused features of the site are the search functions, and the tech articles. How many new members even know there is a tech section? That's where I started months prior to joining. I think the first time I went through the tech section there was still less then 2,000 members (I know that's still many more then most of you remember). The IH section was a ghost town, so I did not sign up.

Time and time again the same Q's are asked and answered. Simply be answering the same questions over and over again then tech quality diminishes. The now defunct daily topics in the IH section cover just about every significant topic related to IH's you could need, but rather then search the DT's new IH owners come in and ask the same Q's. I think this is universal with all BB's.

My I suggest that to improve the tech quality, a new section be started with threads for each of the popular topics for each vehicle. Covering SOA's for Scouts, Axle swaps for Heeps, SAS for Toys, etc. The section would be a "fully" moderated forum, that requires all new posts and replies to be reviewed and approved by a moderator. New members could then be pointed to the section for answers to their questions. All new Q's about the topic would then be posted the vehicle section. Thus the posts in each vehicle section become 'new' problems and solutions. This might reduce the traffic in each section and reduce the interest for new members as they must read the post rather then throw out questions.

By far the PBB is a valuable resource that I greatly enjoy and appreciate the work of Lance, and Bill. I've meet some great people on this board and hope to meet more over time.

Joe

Originally posted by 60seriesguy
I like to think that I have made my share of contributions on this BBB, especially on the Land Cruiser forum, which is what I know best. At the same time, I gratefully acknowledge that I have learned a *lot* from you, and that's why I decided to pay the $20 contributions. I realize that there is a lot of effort involved in the maintenance of this site, and the $20 seemed reasonable.
That's exactly how I feel. When I bought my Toyota, it was before I knew anything, really. Like more of the people who are into four wheeling but don't have a place to talk about it with hardcore off roaders, I had subscriptions to 3 of the big magazines. And I believed most everything they said. Because I didn't know any better.

Also, I really wish there was a way for someone's first ten posts to be fully moderated. So when someone came in, signed up, and just spouted out "How do I put Chevy springs in my Toyota?"" - he'd get a message from one of the toy moderators telling him to (A)Use the search, and (B) Look for the sticky at the top of the page where it was explained in painstaking detail.

I think the reason I'm so willing to yell at Newbies it that I didn't do what they do. I started off answering questions I knew the answers to, not asking my own. I don't think I've ever posted a tech question without running a search phrased 3 different ways, and I knew ahead of time from reading other peoples posts before making my first that I was going to see: :flipoff2: Newbie! :flipoff2: after all of my posts for a couple weeks to come.

Originally posted by camo
slick i too miss the way it was. the fact is that we have grown and there are many people who work hard at keeping it as true to our roots as possible. in our hearts we all know we need the newbies but if we didn't flame them they would all stay and we do not want every wheeler to be a member of our site. so by flaming the new guys it keeps our growth in check and just leaves us with the heartest of souls. it might no be a perfect system but it is our system. as far as flaming you i will not but i would request that you share your ideas of how to make this place better or keep it like it was you WOULD share your ideas with myself or lance. as one of the older members of this BB we value and rely on this input from members like yourself. i will readliy admit that there is plenty of Bullshitting in the tech section and i delete a fair share of it but i leave alot of in place for the entertainment value cause if you think of what it would be like with 100 % tech this place would be as much fun as reading a set of instructions on how to asseble IKEA furniture.


I don't think I could have said it better than Camo did. This is exactly how I feel. Sure I miss the days when it was a couple hundred of us, but we ain't going back. Sure there is more weak posts, but there are more hard core ones too. There are more posts & people, period. As Camo does I delete some and leave some of the B/S for entertainment purposes. For the reason he stated.

Initially I thought slick made very good points but I thougt about it for a while and I think that you are wrong.

The more poaple that post on this site the better as there are more ideas and experiences to share.

The problem with lots of people posting is the BS that comes with it. You get it if there are 900, 9000 or 90000. The BS will always be there in the tech cause this is where people hang out and live and I dont see anything wrong with that.

Your saying that the reason that there is to much BS in the tech is because there are to many "soft" users on the site attracted to the chit chat and this spills over to the tech.

This is WRONG. The amount of BS in the tech is controlled by the moderators. If thay see some shiat that they think shouldnt be there they delete it or move it on. If Lance wanted absolutely no BS in the tech sections Im sure he could make it that way but if he did it would be a boring place to hang. The amount of BS in the tech is all about balance and the balance is controlled by the moderators.

And from the responses in these couple of threads it looks like Lance has got the balance spot on although I still think he could use a little more front articulation :flipoff2:

But hey Im just some dumb ass newbie.

Sam

Just for grins, you guys average 3437.95 posts each. That is a total of 68,759 posts for 20 folks.

For myself, it is 99 posts in 25 threads. Two in Chitchat. I just realized that this is my last newbie post, strangely enough. I try to post when I have something to contribute or a new question, and pass on the "Me, Too" kind of posts. This made the newbie thing last a bit longer, but who cares.

I think that the issue in this thread is something that every BB, mail list or similar group goes through. The newbie hazing issue can get a bit carried away, but I fully support encouraging people to search first. I see this on a lot of other boards and it does get irritating.

The tech info on this board is quite unique - I joined up because I was kind of bored with bolt-on stuff, and there is more fab/design info on this board than anywhere else I have found. So what if you have to sort through a lot of crap, find any mail list or BB out there that doesn't have the same thing. It is the nature of people, not just the nature of POR BB. Damn, just go to a city council meeting or any other gathering and listen to the crap people spout in REAL LIFE. Then give them the ability to use "handles" and spout off as some anonymous character, then watch 'em go.

If the newbie/wheeler/guru thing is an issue, maybe it should just be posts in the tech section that count. But who cares.

anyway, thanks for listening and thanks to Lance for providing this board. I like it fine.

Originally posted by yurtle
Just for grins, you guys average 3437.95 posts each. That is a total of 68,759 posts for 20 folks.

But Steve N cheated with artifical post count numbers :p:p:p:p

I remember the old BBS and all the BS in the Tech, it 10x better with CHit-chat, good job lance

I remember reading the Tech section before I even signed up and reading everything on Brandons toyota build up like twice, I wanted mine to be that cool when it grew up:)

STUFF IVE LEARNED FROM THIS PLACE:

this place is what started me on the SAS thing

<----------- this place made me laugh when I did this to my truck my last trip out......flopping and rolling is now cool(thanks guys):flipoff2:

I learned about All-pro and Rockstomper through this place

I now what to live close to the rubicon and Fordyce and wheel the Hammerz one day

my first year of wheeling my I didnt even think the doors would come off... now it like "what are doors?":D

I know that link suspensions are the shit

Jeeps suck

my senior project is with Rich and CalROCS:D:D

I now think :bender: is funny



Im spent, my brain hurts

Originally posted by 60seriesguy
and don't know what percentage of the traffic and bandwidth generated by this site they account for...


look at fourms homes and you can see how many post/replies/& who the moderators are.NewBie:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

I am a newbie :flipoff2: so take my opinion as is,

The search always kicks my ass and I'll tell you why:

The search term you specified (XXX) is under the minimum word length (4) and therefore will not be found. Please make this term longer.

think of all that excludes

440, 350, 304, 345, 392, np, 727, t19, t18, 203, 205, 208, 300, 20, d60, d44, 350, 4.3, 22r, MTR, BFG, ARB, OX, jd2, mig, tig

Just a thought.

But I agree that a little flaming weeds out the weak.

So...:mad3: :mad3: bring it awn!

Originally posted by troutbum
I am a newbie :flipoff2: so take my opinion as is,

The search always kicks my ass and I'll tell you why:



think of all that excludes

440, 350, 304, 345, 392, np, 727, t19, t18, 203, 205, 208, 300, 20, d60, d44, 350, 4.3, 22r, MTR, BFG, ARB, OX, jd2, mig, tig

Just a thought.

But I agree that a little flaming weeds out the weak.

So...:mad3: :mad3: bring it awn!

Ok you stupid newbie :D try this: 440*, 350*, 304*, 345*, 392*, *np*, 727*, t19*, t18*, 203*, 205*, 208*, 300..... etc... ;)

Originally posted by Lance


Ok you stupid newbie :D try this: 440*, 350*, 304*, 345*, 392*, *np*, 727*, t19*, t18*, 203*, 205*, 208*, 300..... etc... ;)

Question on this. The star will not work for say D60 unless it is D60's. I did a search a while back for T98 info, if I use T98* the search feature will not find T98 unless it is T98 plus additional characters. Am I full of it?

Joe

Originally posted by jdjanda

Am I full of it?

Joe

Yep. :flipoff2:

I did a search for "T18*" (without the quotes) and here is what I got:

Originally posted by jdjanda

I think that the 2 most unused features of the site are the search functions, and the tech articles. How many new members even know there is a tech section?


I read the TechSection through a couple times before I ever contemplated signing up.. Scoutillac finally talked me into it. ;)

However.. the Tech Section was pretty empty at the time. A few interesting articles (mostly about those Land Cruisers and Toyota mini-trucks.. who wheels those?? :D ).. but not a lot.

I know Lance's been working on fleshing that out a bit - which is great. Tin Bender's article is inspiring. :D


My I suggest that to improve the tech quality, a new section be started with threads for each of the popular topics for each vehicle. Covering SOA's for Scouts, Axle swaps for Heeps, SAS for Toys, etc. The section would be a "fully" moderated forum, that requires all new posts and replies to be reviewed and approved by a moderator.
Ideally, a link at the top of each Forum directing to the user to the specific "FAQ Forum"..

Visit the IH section and the first post or top of the screen is a link to the IH FAQ Forum. Make it moderated - anyone can attempt to add to a FAQ response, or ask something, but the moderator has to approve it.

For the most part, a Read Only forum.

Of course, the down side is, the Tech forums could get pretty boring once we've written all there is to write and BTDT on everything.

Then we migh thave to.. gasp.. dream something new up. :D

There really isn't a great solution.. the Binder Bulletin / IH Digest built the IH FAQ a few years ago.. after the initial push it slowed down significantly.. I'm not even sure if I remember my password to add things. ;)

Plus, when I post something to the FAQ, I think it should show some "spit n' polish".. while replying to some newbie's post can be completely off-the-cuff and as curt or verbose as I want it to be..

Difference between talking with someone around a campfire, and giving a lecture / Tech Seminar at a show.

-Tom
IH Nut

Originally posted by jdjanda


Question on this. The star will not work for say D60 unless it is D60's. I did a search a while back for T98 info, if I use T98* the search feature will not find T98 unless it is T98 plus additional characters. Am I full of it?

Joe
looks like u r full of it:D I searched for t98* in jeep section, look http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=38643&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending

personally this site is awesome.

i hate bolt on crap, plus it costs more. i am cheap! i love the fact that i learn from other peoples designs. i can go and build myself something similar to what other people are using, but build in my own ideas.

personally i think the newbie flaming is really funny. its kind of the por initiation process. like hazing!:D i went through it so should the newbie thing so should everone else.

i guess if you don't like it get out of here. its not bad. there is loads of info. i love the b.s. i love the laughs i get and all the tech. its a guys best dream come true for off road machines!:smokin:

I was here just a little before gen. chit chat started and I joined just cuzz I like :bender: (and yes I know kinda how that icon started)


seriously if you look at the chit chat section theres lots of people that dont contribute to anithing in the 4x4techforums.

but it doesnt bother me cuzz the land cruiser forum does'nt get overun by dumb newbies cuzz where a much beter select breed of people:)

Anybody remember this little gem I started a while back?

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7200&highlight=why+i+hate+this+board

At the time I felt much the way Slick does, and in a lot of ways i still do.

But that little outburst netted me some good advice, and much of it is still relevant.

I decided to say, and am glad I did, heck - I even have an article in the tech section now.

Hey - there's an idea...all us tech lovers, we who would prefer more sig to noise ratio - how about each of us picks a common topic, one that's asked way too often, and contribute an article ??

Originally posted by BillaVista
how about each of us picks a common topic, one that's asked way too often, and contribute an article ??

That's the best damn idea I've heard all day. :D:D:D:D

Far be it from me to interject any groundbreaking information into an important topic on something such as bulletin board policy, but speaking from a newbie's perspective, I read the site for a long time and got some great ideas out of it. Now the time has come to put those ideas to reality, so I signed up and started asking questions (but not without searching long and hard first).

I'd just like to say that this board and the tech sections especially (this is the second time I've ever made a post outside the Toy section) has provided me with advice that is not only impossible to put a price on (it's invaluable) but advice that I probably would not have been able to get anywhere else.

My point is the people here know their shit, whether it's BS'ing in the Chit Chat section or hardcore tech, I've been flamed a few times, but hell I'd take a fawking kick to the groin as long as someone answers my damned questions still. :D

Oh and one more thing the :flipoff2: is the best smiley I've ever seen. Thanks for reading, I'll go back to lurking now.

Well, I have to agree with Slick.
I have been enjoying the POR and thier site even before it was pirate4x4.com, i think it was on AOL or something like that .
Over the many years I have seen the site and the Pirates evolve to what they are today.
Thier were many years of enjoyment, laughs, and knowlege, but it seems recently all those thing are here but thier mixed up in a three ring circus.
Because of that I choose not to visit here as often.

Lance, maybe you should think about starting another site for all the people to burn and put each other down and leave this one for the people who enjoy the knowlege and fun of our sport.

Ryan