4.6 questions

[twistedspline]

Im in the process of piecing together a buggy project. I was told by Old Scout that the Rover 4.6L V8s will adapt to my scout tf 727 so im leaning toward this combo for the car...
My major concern for this setup is the wiring harness (I couldn't even wire in lights to save my life) :shaking: . Who if anyone makes a Harness that will work for this set up?
I love the weight to power ratio this motor has to offer and the fact That it will mate to parts that I already have is a major plus.
Any info on this swap would be appreciated.
Thanks

[DieLucas!]

Nobody.
You will either have to use the stock Rover engine harness for the 4.6, or you could use any aftermarket engine ECU with the stock fuel injection components if you get a 3.9 front engine cover and distributer (the 4.6 uses a crank-fired distributor). Or...you could go with the 3.9 front cover, distributor, and Edelbrock intake manifold with a carb of your choosing. Good luck.

[64rovr]

Actually, Autosparks in the UK makes a stand alone wiring harness for the Rover OBDI EFI system. They can make the lead to the ECU as long or as short as you want-- IIRC the harness costs about $180.

[DieLucas!]

Actually, Autosparks in the UK makes a stand alone wiring harness for the Rover OBDI EFI system. They can make the lead to the ECU as long or as short as you want-- IIRC the harness costs about $180.

But he'll still need to change the front cover, oil pump, cam, and get a distributor...so far I've seen nothing to replace the OBD-2 GEMS ECU and harness, let alone, adapt up to the crank-fired ignition.

[rtiqulatendisco]

I'm using a front cover off a 4.2 in my 4.6 95 D1.

[DieLucas!]

I'm using a front cover off a 4.2 in my 4.6 95 D1.

It's the same as the 3.9 cover...

[pendy]

If you can not spell I hope you have deep pockets. I could come up with everything you need but I am proud of it. So it would cost you.

Playing with Rovers is not like chebbys. And you probably do not have anything I need in trade.

JP

[JSBriggs]

And you probably do not have anything I need in trade.

JP

Youll have to forgive Pendy, he is a bit rough arround the edges. He is right, that it will be pricey, but he is assuming you cheap.

And as far as trades go he is assuming and don't have any teenage daughters, livestock, or beany babies.

:flipoff2:



-Jeff

[pendy]

Youll have to forgive Pendy, he is a bit rough arround the edges. He is right, that it will be pricey, but he is assuming you cheap.

And as far as trades go he is assuming and don't have any teenage daughters, livestock, or beany babies.

:flipoff2:



-Jeff

Or beenie baby teenage daughters with livestock. Or steel 16" ally wheels with bead locks and rover bolt pattern for my Simex.

As usual it is all premature, he is prolly a one time poster.

JP

[twistedspline]

Or beenie baby teenage daughters with livestock. Or steel 16" ally wheels with bead locks and rover bolt pattern for my Simex.

As usual it is all premature, he is prolly a one time poster.

JP

Nope not a one time poster. I am just trying to do the research and get the best possible info before I commit to any certain drive train for my buggy.
I am sick of the usual chebby 4.3 buggy setup. We did a few of those when I used to work at jeepers off road. I am trying for a light engine that puts out a little more HP than most 6 cyl engines do and this seems like a damn good base. I don't know squat about rover engines so I will have to ask ignorant questions at times.
Like I said earlier I am in the putting together parts phase of the project and wont be able to start actually working on the project for another month or so. The guy I spot for In the UROC comps and are sponsor Factory Tubular Motorsports decided we needed to rebuild are comp car from the frame up. Most of my free time is being invested in that car as of now but like I said going into a new project blind sucks a big one.
By the way I have a little sister for trade (she's fat and likes goats) so thanks for the info on what I need to come up with to get your knowledge out of your head :D

[DieLucas!]

Why ruin a good thing? Chevy V6's are not that heavy, they are cheaper to build for torque and power, and you'd probably get more torque out of it compared to the 4.6.

Seriously, ask yourself why you are choosing the Rover V8. Is it the novelty of it? Is it because it bolts up to your current IH TF-727? Those are lousy reasons considering the weight savings over a V6 are not all that great, it's relatively harder to get replacement and performance parts for, and you're going to have to look into either a custom EFI to power the thing (or learn to be handy with stock Rover electrical). Not to dissuade you or anything, but Rover owners are a bit on the masochistic side. Pendy even wheels with a butt-plug just in case his rig doesn't break down on the trail.

[pendy]

Why ruin a good thing? Chevy V6's are not that heavy, they are cheaper to build for torque and power, and you'd probably get more torque out of it compared to the 4.6.

Seriously, ask yourself why you are choosing the Rover V8. Is it the novelty of it? Is it because it bolts up to your current IH TF-727? Those are lousy reasons considering the weight savings over a V6 are not all that great, it's relatively harder to get replacement and performance parts for, and you're going to have to look into either a custom EFI to power the thing (or learn to be handy with stock Rover electrical). Not to dissuade you or anything, but Rover owners are a bit on the masochistic side. Pendy even wheels with a butt-plug just in case his rig doesn't break down on the trail.

At least I wheel professor. Did you say you teach from 10am to 11pm? Is the misses home alone. Maybe I should drop by for a social visit. Now who is teaching class?

JP

[DieLucas!]

Is the misses home alone. Maybe I should drop by for a social visit. Now who is teaching class?

JP

She's been in Oregon at an undisclosed location for the past 2 weeks just for this reason. You scare her.

[pendy]

She's been in Oregon at an undisclosed location for the past 2 weeks just for this reason. You scare her.

My job is done here.

[SUE ROVR]

You will probably want to buy a donor range rover classic or Disco I (preferably 95 RRC or 94/95 Disco I, but anything with a 14cux will be ok so 1990ish and up) and swap in a 4.6 short block. It can be done with an 87-89 EFI but the system is not as good.

You could swap in the entire harness from a GEMS disco I/D90 or 4.0/4.6 range rover but this would be a PITA and probably work less well that the early system.

A 4.3 cheby is a decent bit hevier than a 4.6. I can pick up a 4.6 but I cannot pick up a 4.3 cheby.

Ron

PS as far as wiring just take everything from the RRC.

[twistedspline]

[QUOTE=DieLucas!]Why ruin a good thing? Chevy V6's are not that heavy, they are cheaper to build for torque and power, and you'd probably get more torque out of it compared to the 4.6.[QUOTE]

True and not so true..... If the info I found on the motors is correct chebbys weigh around 375 lb. and the vortecs average 200 HP
Rovers weigh 324 lb. and average 220 HP
Im more than sure your right about building the torque but I would like just a little more HP due to the fact that occasionally I do make it to the sand dunes out here.
Now I haven't done alot of research on this. The info only comes off 1 or 2 sites but it seems that there is a little bit of a difference.
One plus for me is my Father in-law is really good friends with the owner of Regent Street auto repair here in Salt Lake City and they specialize in rover repair and modification..... I just havnt had a chance to run over and take up his opnion on the project.
Your right though if it is going to cost me thousands of dollars more to make the rover work it probably wouldn't be a smart choice but if Regent Street can hook me up for a fair price then it might be a go....

[SonarRover]

It's the same as the 3.9 cover...

No it's not. 4.2 still used a distributor but otherwise has oil pump etc. as per 4.0/4.6. If using a 4.0/4.6 block in a rig originally using a distributor than the 4.2 cover is what you need.

[Gremlin]

Hi Guys, i have been lurking around this board for quite a while now and i think i can help you out on this one. Try out this link, there is a wealth of knowledge on this subject.

http://p217.ezboard.com/foffroaderrantpagefrm61.showMessage?topicID=11.top ic

Hope you find the info relevant........

Grem

[Bush65]

My old rangie has a 4.6 with front cover and distributor etc from the original 3.5 motor.

[lwg]

No it's not. 4.2 still used a distributor but otherwise has oil pump etc. as per 4.0/4.6. If using a 4.0/4.6 block in a rig originally using a distributor than the 4.2 cover is what you need.


Depends on the year. The '95 4.2 had a serp, the '93 and '94 did not. So the '93 and '94 4.2 front timing covers are the same as the 3.9.

I think that's what you meant! ;)

[lwg]

Or steel 16" alloy wheels with bead locks and rover bolt pattern for my Simex.

JP

Confusious say "Pendy no have Simex mounted before rally!".

Larry say "Cowboy Up!"

[DieLucas!]

No it's not. 4.2 still used a distributor but otherwise has oil pump etc. as per 4.0/4.6. If using a 4.0/4.6 block in a rig originally using a distributor than the 4.2 cover is what you need.

Sorry; you're still wrong.

The 4.2 cover on the '95 LWB is the same as the 3.9 cover on the '95 Discovery. Any of the pre-95 front covers using v-belts, as already mentioned, will work also.

Nothing about the block changed from the 3.9 to the 4.2; and nothing about the block changed from the early to late 3.9's, or even the 3.5 (clear back into the 70's) for that matter, that would prevent a serpentine or v-belt timing cover to be interchanged. So if a 4.2 timing cover of any year will work on a 4.0/4.6 block, then any 3.5/3.9 timing cover will work.

[pendy]

Depends on the year. The '95 4.2 had a serp, the '93 and '94 did not. So the '93 and '94 4.2 front timing covers are the same as the 3.9.

I think that's what you meant! ;)


So what we really mean is a 95' 4.2 RRC serpentine cover with distributor will work. As will a 94-95 Disco 3.9 with serpentine belt and distributor.

JP

[SonarRover]

Sorry; you're still wrong.

The 4.2 cover on the '95 LWB is the same as the 3.9 cover on the '95 Discovery. Any of the pre-95 front covers using v-belts, as already mentioned, will work also.

Nothing about the block changed from the 3.9 to the 4.2; and nothing about the block changed from the early to late 3.9's, or even the 3.5 (clear back into the 70's) for that matter, that would prevent a serpentine or v-belt timing cover to be interchanged. So if a 4.2 timing cover of any year will work on a 4.0/4.6 block, then any 3.5/3.9 timing cover will work.

You are correct. My response assumed he was looking for serpentine belt to go with 4.6 ancillaries but retained use of distributor.

However, you are all also giving me more credit than I deserve as I brain-farted into thinking that the 4.2 had the front cover-type higher volume oil pump of the 4.0/4.6. Obviously, it does not and still had the external gear-type oil pump ala 3.5/3.9. :shaking:

Your restraint in flaming is appreciated-

[SUE ROVR]

The ancilaries are different from GEMS to 14CUX with serp so it is still not going to help you, at least not without some mods (never tried so I am not sure how much work would be involved.)

Like I said get a donor RRC or DI, serp or V belt is not a big issue one way or the other. Serp is probably better but not so much as I would pay more to get it.

also 1994/95 DI and 95 RRC is serp w/ 14CUX

97 D90 1996-early1999DI is GEMS

94/95 D90, 93 D110, and up through 1994 RRC is 14CU(X)

[Keith Armstrong]

So since my '94 3.9 serpentine belted Disco is making the "flat camshaft" sounds lately, I can save that front cover and find a 4.6 to go behind it, right?

Jimmy, KAK??? comments

[DieLucas!]

Yep.

[DieLucas!]

Your restraint in flaming is appreciated-

Wow...this is a first for me. I feel like a big bottle of rage right now. C'mon...some newbie ask a dumb question. I dare you...

[64rovr]

You will need a different cam for the 4.6 that has a distributor drive gear on it... many are available from www.rpiv8.com or an OEM 4.2L camshaft seems to work well.

[pendy]

So since my '94 3.9 serpentine belted Disco is making the "flat camshaft" sounds lately, I can save that front cover and find a 4.6 to go behind it, right?

Jimmy, KAK??? comments

I reccomend a 4.8.

[azpaquin]

Nope not a one time poster. I am just trying to do the research and get the best possible info before I commit to any certain drive train for my buggy.
I am sick of the usual chebby 4.3 buggy setup. We did a few of those when I used to work at jeepers off road. I am trying for a light engine that puts out a little more HP than most 6 cyl engines do and this seems like a damn good base. I don't know squat about rover engines so I will have to ask ignorant questions at times.
Like I said earlier I am in the putting together parts phase of the project and wont be able to start actually working on the project for another month or so. The guy I spot for In the UROC comps and are sponsor Factory Tubular Motorsports decided we needed to rebuild are comp car from the frame up. Most of my free time is being invested in that car as of now but like I said going into a new project blind sucks a big one.
By the way I have a little sister for trade (she's fat and likes goats) so thanks for the info on what I need to come up with to get your knowledge out of your head :D
If you are looking for a lightweight engine with power, use the Ford 4.6 aluminum block from the Mustang GT. Parts are cheap, power is good.

[Keith Armstrong]

Gee, why aren't I surprised :)

I reccomend a 4.8.

[64rovr]

On another note you guys see the new ACR-reconditioned Rover V8 blocks? They are running a different liner that allows the cyl to be bored out even further, allowing for a short-stroke 4.8 or even 5.0L.

[Keith Armstrong]

Cripes no, not yet! Lemee at that ACR site :)

[64rovr]

Not sure if the info is on their site yet, but it was in the latest LRE.

http://www.automotivecomp.com/index.html

[64rovr]

if you really want to drool and make your wallet scream look here.

http://www.roverv8engine.co.uk/

[PTSchram]

Twisted:
Finish everything on your buggy but the wiring, ship it to me, close on your home equity loan and in a week or two, I can have it done. Slightly more complicated than the series trucks I've rewired, but not a major problem. (Don't believe a word about my reputation as it relates to wiring, everybody is in awe of my incredible talent for fixing Rover wiring gremlins :flipoff2: )

You only have a coupla sensors, and the outputs are very limited. A variety of different colored wires (shit, I'll even let you determine the color coding), a supply of Ford injector connectors, my trusty Thomas and Betts crimpers and I'll have you goin' in no time.

Let me know your schedule and I'll make mine fit yours.

Peace,
PT

see Pendy, that's how you sell, not frighten away potential big $ clients

[pendy]

Twisted:
Finish everything on your buggy but the wiring, ship it to me, close on your home equity loan and in a week or two, I can have it done. Slightly more complicated than the series trucks I've rewired, but not a major problem. (Don't believe a word about my reputation as it relates to wiring, everybody is in awe of my incredible talent for fixing Rover wiring gremlins :flipoff2: )

You only have a coupla sensors, and the outputs are very limited. A variety of different colored wires (shit, I'll even let you determine the color coding), a supply of Ford injector connectors, my trusty Thomas and Betts crimpers and I'll have you goin' in no time.

Let me know your schedule and I'll make mine fit yours.

Peace,
PT

see Pendy, that's how you sell, not frighten away potential big $ clients


Yeah we will see. I think he is looking for a handout. But I might take him up on his plump sis.

JP

[DieLucas!]

But I might take him up on his plump sis.


Yeah, but you took up on a shaved sheep with lipstick, so that's not saying much.

[Serious One]

Yeah, but you took up on a shaved sheep with lipstick, so that's not saying much.

Thanks for the mental picture.

:barf:

[DieLucas!]

Thanks for the mental picture.

:barf:

Imagery is what's I does best...

[twistedspline]

Thanks for the info guys (really I mean it).... Like I said earlier I cant even start on the project till we get the other comp buggy finished.... Thats itleast 3 weeks off...
Handouts are always nice...lol.. so is my fat sister :D
I have a place locally I will get the rover stuff done and was told that the wiring harness should not be an issue due to the fact of a doner vehicle will be used... Once agian thanks for the info it helps on the informed decisions...

[pendy]

Let us know when you are in the thick of it and we can come to your aid.

[PTSchram]

Let us know when you are in the thick of it and we can spend your money.

Fixed it for ya. :flipoff2: