LR Center Diff (part time conversion)

[RockRover]

Okay guy's...Timm C. is planning to make a run on center diff pucks that will make our (semi) week LT230 full time center diff's part time.

However, I'm getting close to pulling my center diff, and still no word from Timm (busy guy). Is there any other option out there (other than making a lincon locker out of it)? I pinged Aschroft about it, and they do have something, but they werent' too specific...Plus I have questions about the strength of their unit (easy Merv!), and as usuall, they want way too much $ for it.

--D

[fcfred]

how much is too much?
I'm gonna get one from timm pretty soon, and know he's working on others
when do you need one by?

[RockRover]

Originally posted by fcfred
how much is too much?
I'm gonna get one from timm pretty soon, and know he's working on others
when do you need one by?


Well I've been chatting with Timm for about 8 months now (about the pucks). I haven't heard from him in a while, and was ASSuMEing that the product was stalled indefinitely. I'll give him a call and see where he's at with them...I know there's a growing calling for them...6 my last count.

I won't need it for at least 5-8 weeks. Sounds like a long time, but...

--D

[Serious One]

Hi Guys,

I'll probably be the one to answer a lot of the Timm Cooper questions on the board, since he seems to be working for me a lot lately, and I see him almost daily.

He has done 3 part-time conversions for the LT-230, one on his truck, one for Steven's Rangie, and one for my 145.

I can ask him when he's planning to do more and how much the parts are going to cost.

If anyone wants to correspond privately, feel free to e-mail me at:

mike@fogstock.com

Later,

Michael Slade

[RockRover]

Hey Mikie!

Good seein' ya' man! Yea, find out, and post on the board. It's good info, and good for Timm too.

I get first dib's though!;)

-D

[Serious One]

Hey Doug,

I knew I'd find you hiding out somewhere!

KC basically told the D90 list to F off, and started his own yahoo group. I hope it's better (it should be) than the Bonner fest.

Anyway, I'll sell you MY LT-230 with the conversion for 1K man! Hehe!

I just saw two of those 'pucks' as you call them tonight. They are SUUUUUWHHHEEEEEET! You'll love it.

He did the part-time conversion to my 80 incher with the LT-95 transmission in it. What a difference driving it makes!

A bunch of the PCRC club guys (some newbies, some 'hardcores') went out for a night run in the snow on Sat., and everyone was stuck in the snow. I found a large flat spot in the snow, put it in 2WD and did donuts for about 30 minutes while everyone else put chains on! Hehe. I didn't even air down! Burned about 5 gallons of gas with that little 283!

Anyway, it'll be worth the wait. The craftsmanship is typicall Timm. Damn good.

Hows your truck coming along??? My 145 has the engine installed, OD/tranny/t-case is hanging in place, and now it's on to get the drivelines made. The triple pass radiator is here and will go in soon. I could go on and on.

Later,

Michael

[Strange Rover]

Come awn!!! Just weld the thing up. Its only an old Landie after all.

But seriously (hey thats almost funny :D )

Michael, how does timm support the front output shaft in the centre diff. Does he run a bearing or bush or anything. When I did my lt95 (welded) I ran the front in a needly roller bearing and I was wondering if this was necessary. I may do a conversion to a lt230 (I probably will weld again) and if I dont have to run the bearing it will same a lot of mucking around.

Sam

[Serious One]

Hi,

Timm actually uses a sealed bearing to support the front output shaft.

You could weld everything up, but it wouldn't be as elegant (in Timm's opinion). He welded his own personal LT-230, but for customers and for any other conversions he is using a piece that is machined and has a bearing pressed in with splined outputs front and back.

He'll be at the shop later today.

Just in case no one knows the # there, it's 503-236-0101. I know Fred has kind of spread the # around, so me giving it again isn't a problem.

He comes in around 11 and stays until 1 or 2 (am).

The conversion looks very very nice.

If I could figure out how to post pics along with my messages I would.

[fcfred]

hey Slade, send those pics to me and I'll post em
fcfred@hotmail.com

[Serious One]

Well guys,

Crazy Uncle Freddy got his spool in his LT-230 last night making me totally jealous! I didn't even know you were getting one man! Way cool.

So, now Timm has one, Steven and Fred both have one, and I'll have one. I guess that means that there have been 4 done so far. Hmmm, cool. Math!

Mine was just sitting there waiting patiently for the cross-pin to be machined. I guess I'll get my chance next week. Hehe.

I didn't ask Timm about pricing, he looked like he was too deep in thought to worry about $$$, so I will ask later.

'Till then...

Michael

[evilfij]

Ashcroft wanted 100UKP more than a regular rebuilt LT230 for a "genuine" part time LT230.

It was like 475 + 100 for a core (non PT fine).

I was supposed to pick one up this past week in the UK but the F'in trains to Lutton were on strike so I never made it to ashcroft.

Oh well. I will go back.

Ron

[Rover Addiction]

so I'm curious... Who make part time hubs to fit rover drive flanges?

-John

[Serious One]

Oh heck, lesse...

US manufacturers are/were:

Warn, Dual-matic (weakest hubs ever made for LR's, don't be fooled by a LR decal on a Dual-matic hub, they were a dealer option, and junk), Thor, Selectro (now Mile-marker)

British manufacturers:

Fairey (now owned by Superwinch), AVM, MAP (strongest hubs ever made for LR's)

All of the above information is from Timm Cooper (he said he could go on for 30 minutes telling me how many different hubs there were, but those were the major ones).

For my projects I'm going to use Selectro hubs.

Later,

Michael

[evilfij]

Mike (and John),

The ones coop listed are correct BUT only for series trucks (6 bolt flange). You can find superwinch/milemarker PT hubs for 24 spline coil rover axles (5 bolt flange). There might be some more but those were the only ones I could find still in production.

Ron

[Serious One]

Hook me up with some part no's!

Thx.

M

[Serious One]

I'm on the MM site right now, and they only have hubs listed for the 6-bolt hub pattern.

Still looking for the 5-bolt...

M

[Serious One]

Hmmmm, Superwinch hubs are also 6-bolt.

Where is this mysterious 5-bolt freewheeling hub????

M

[western110]

Hi, delurking for a moment;

There used to be a company in France that made 5 bolt locking hubs for the very first 110's that where part-time 4x4. I have not seen there add in years. I had figured these where the hubs you guys where planning on using as I have not seen any others. Good luck.

Andrew

[Rover Addiction]

Well guys, here's my simple solution:

I'll keep the full time 4wd until such time that I get sick of investing in CVs for the front end. Then, I'll go ahead and do the Marbourg thing and jump on a 60 front and 70 or 14bolt rear. At the same time, I'll probably get 2 front 60s because I'll convert the D90 and the D110 to match. This solves the problem of sourcing hubs for the rover axles because I shouldn't need them at that point.

Fun part is that I may as well convert the rear of the 110 too so I can run the common wheels instead of the rover stuff. Or.. figure out how to put the rover hubs, rotors, and wheels on the outside of the dana stuff.. hmm....

Of course, I'll probably want to go for narrowed axles in order to get them to look right and match for both rigs. Damn, that's gonna be an expensive proposition..

Shoulda started looking into that from the start. Think how much money I coulda saved in front axles and CVs.. :( Or maybe I shoulda bought a heep or something where you just know from the start that you need to throw away everything except the grill and the steering wheel... :flipoff2: to the heep guys! :p


Well, that developed into deep thoughts...

-John

[fcfred]

hey I'm a heep guy and I resent that comment
not only am I keeping the steering wheel and grill, but also the Pedals!:flipoff2:

[evilfij]

Mike,

I posted them on the D90 list a while back. I will keep digging

http://www.bearmach.com/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Special_Offroad_Equipment_8.html

Here is the link to the AVM ones from Bearmach.

It even includes a transfer case PT conversion!

Ron

[evilfij]

http://www.avm.com.br/products4.htm

Here is a pic of the PT conversion kit and the PN for just the hubs.

I will bounce an email to Nathan and see how much it is from him.

Ron

[Serious One]

Ron,

Thanks for the info. VERY interesting.

I will stick with the Cooper part-time conversion rather than doing the AVM conversion (I think the Cooper one is a much better solution IMO).

But, the AVM hub information is interesting. I wonder how strong they are and how much they cost???

Thanks,

Michael

[western110]

Cool! You can still get them, I stand corrected. Dam, now I have to think about that option to.

Andrew

[Serious One]

hi guys

DAP sells the AVM hubs and I spoke with them this morning. They don't have a price on the 24 spline 5-bolt hubs, in fact, it took him a minute to look it up.

They're basically a copy of the Warn hubs, and he said that he wasn't THAT impressed with them, but they have sold a few AVM hubs and the price was right.....

So, for my $$$ I'm doing the Selectro hubs with our special inner hub option.

Anyone going to gamble with the AVM hubs????

Michael

[RockRover]

Even if they weren't that strong, wouldn't it be a cheap bit of insurance against snapping the CV? Heck, if you could adapt a fuseable link for those hubs you'd be in like flint.

--D

[RVR OVR]

excuse the newbie question here, but why would you want to go with a part-time xfer case? aside from better mileage and doing donuts (much fun), what else is there to be gained? especially if I tow my truck to trails.

tom

[Serious One]

Hi newbie! :flipoff2:

Hehe. Had to do that.

Anyway, part-time 4wd is useful for many reasons. Several follow.

Reduced wear on front axle parts

Reduced understeer in corners, especially on pavement

Increased mileage (unsubstantiated, heck it's a Rover after all)

Donuts (and donut holes)

Less noise/vibration from x-fer case into cab area

It's cool

I got a price on the AVM conversion from DAP. $225. I can get selectro hubs from the UK for 39 UKP each. Once I get my hub conversion done, replacing freewheeling hubs (if/when they break) should be a cheap easy solution).

I can get the hub section I need to make the conversion AND the Selectro selectable hub very inexpensively (the hub for 70 UKP and the Selectro for 39 UKP, making it 174 bucks US per side). Besides, the AVM hub is not as strong as the Selectro, AND the 5-bolt pattern is not as strong as the 6 (which I'm going to).

Lots of choices.

Granted, the AVM hub will make the part-time conversion a lot less painful as far as doing labor and making modifications are concerned, and might not be a bad way to go for the majority of LR owners who would even get this far. AFAIC, if you are even considering part-time LT-230 and freewheeling hubs you are at the cutting edge of LR thought.

Later,

Michael

[western110]

Ok, I've got to ask: Do you guys that are looking at putting part time conversions into your Coil Rovers really feel that this is a
better way to go or is it just being different/cool? I've owned and driven two 88's and two 109's over the past 15 years or so
and now drive an ex-mil 110. I had freewheeling hubs on the first three Rovers and refused to put them on my last 109 due to
them being a pita (every selectro I've seen on a series truck leaks from new, I've also had them catch when off road and
disengage them selves). The one thing I did like about the hubs was that if I broke sometime in the front axle I could just
disconnect and drive on the rear. For this reason I have thought of putting them on the 110 but I much prefer the handling of
the 110 to the older part time Rovers (I'm running 2.5 NA diesel so it's not because I have more power). The other thing is
that I live in the frozen north and that full time 4x4 is really nice in the winter. Any way that's just my 2 cents and I am interested in how this all works out.

Andrew

[evilfij]

Hi Mike,

I am SURE coop's is better. I just want to see what else is available and IF it is compatible.

There are a lot of outer stub axle set ups so I need to see what will work with the AVM hubs (specifically will my suffix A 87 RR axle work). But I have NO reservations about the AVMs. Like Western 110 my experience with selectro has been BAD, not breakage but leaks, even (especially) new.

Also the conversion says for LT230S or LT230T, but maybe not for the Q, important when shopping for a case.

If I can make them work AVMs it is, and I will take a set of spares.

Since I missed picking them up in the UK I am working on a US source for ashcroft stuff which will probably be how I get the PT LT230 but if I find a cheap/free one to build I might do that.

Ron

PS was $225 just the kit or the kit with the hubs? The bearmach site implied the kit included the hubs.

[evilfij]

My reasons for part time:

1. No wear and tear on cvs on road.

2. As I will not go fast in 4 wheel I can avoid an spending 400 on a cv front shaft. (1 and 2 are the biggest reasons as I am a cheap bastard)

3. I don't have an LT230 (building from scratch) so why not get a PT one, no extra work for me.

4. I can go to a u joint front axle in the future.

5. I like to inspire confusion when people look at my rovers :)

Ron

[Serious One]

Ron,

I LOVE your reason #5. It is perhaps one of the best reasons to do any weird mod to your LR!

The $225 for the kit was for the hubs AND the conversion bits. When I looked at the AVM site, I couldn't for the life of me figure out what those pins were for, the gasket, etc...based on that alone, I figured that Timm's was going to be simpler and stronger. That's the only reason I am kind of thinking what I'm thinking.

It is good to hear a positive reply about the AVM hubs. I had never heard of them, so my attitude was suspicious. Timm has suggested that the Selectro hubs shouldn't pose a problem, but his experience is with hubs that are relatively old. Maybe the newest generation of manufacturing techniques are producing hubs that leak? I dunno.

Now I'm bummed hearing that you have had bad experiences with the Selectros.

All of your reasons for going part-time are good. I hadn't thought about eliminating the need for a CV front driveline. That is a good one. I remember now that all of my front driveline vibrations went away after converting my LT-95 to part-time. My front axles are still spinning, as is the driveline, but no vibrations.

This will be an interesting experiment.

Later,

Michael

PS How far are you planning on taking your conversion? It would be interesting to see the Selectro 6-bolt conversion vs. the AVM conversion.

[evilfij]

Mike,

Couple things.

First, I have been thinking about it and I think the pic is of the conversion kit for something other than the LT 230 (it says jeep and chevy kits are available too).

$225 (probably even less from Nathan or Thatchedroofgarage) is a smoking deal.

My experience has only been with my buddies rigs in the club (I happily have M11s on the 59). The thing around here is to run 4 FWHs and flat tow. Both the people who bought selectros (to replace perfectly good warns and faireys) had them leak. Now why this happened I dunno. I also am a collector of parts (I buy one of each heaters, winches, hubs) and comparing the selectros to what I have or have seen (early warns, late warns, dual a matics, faireys, mayflowers, superwinch) I seen no reason that the selectros are anything special or that the avms are crap.

My goal is to keep it as easy as possible so I am leaning toward AVMs IF they fit. which right now is a big IF. Need to find out the detail of the the stub axles. I have this sinking feeling that the early 110 axles had a longer stub axle. while this is good (makes the hub connection stronger) I might mean lots of parts to make the suffix A axle work with the hubs.

I might call Bill and bug him or maybe you could bug coop for me :)

I just don't see any real reason to spend extra on the 6 bolt conversion. where is the gain? I mean can you find a cv that is going to be stronger than a FWH? Even if you did the FWH would be like a hub fuse.

To be honest, all and all I am hoping for it to be less expensive to do part time.

heres hoping :)

Ron

[Serious One]

Ron wrote...

"Couple things.

First, I have been thinking about it and I think the pic is of the conversion kit for something other than the LT 230 (it says jeep and chevy kits are available too). "

Good. I was really wondering...


"$225 (probably even less from Nathan or Thatchedroofgarage) is a smoking deal."

Yeah, I suppose so. Time will tell.

"My experience has only been with my buddies rigs in the club (I happily have M11s on the 59). The thing around here is to run 4 FWHs and flat tow. Both the people who bought selectros (to replace perfectly good warns and faireys) had them leak. Now why this happened I dunno. I also am a collector of parts (I buy one of each heaters, winches, hubs) and comparing the selectros to what I have or have seen (early warns, late warns, dual a matics, faireys, mayflowers, superwinch) I seen no reason that the selectros are anything special or that the avms are crap."

That's good to hear. If I could find some old Warn hubs I'd use them in a heartbeat. Actually I am planning to flat-tow the 80-inch, so FWH's on all 4'rs will be nice.

"My goal is to keep it as easy as possible so I am leaning toward AVMs IF they fit. which right now is a big IF. Need to find out the detail of the the stub axles. I have this sinking feeling that the early 110 axles had a longer stub axle. while this is good (makes the hub connection stronger) I might mean lots of parts to make the suffix A axle work with the hubs. "

The early 110 axles did have a longer stub axle. I have one on my 145, and it takes the deeper drive flanges. I know because we had to torch some of them off to unbolt the axles. Getting replacements was a pain (now I have extra 110 drive flanges 'just in case').

"I might call Bill and bug him or maybe you could bug coop for me"

Don't bother bugging either.

"I just don't see any real reason to spend extra on the 6 bolt conversion. where is the gain? I mean can you find a cv that is going to be stronger than a FWH? Even if you did the FWH would be like a hub fuse."

Well when I started this project we had no idea that the AVM hubs were available. If I can find some Warn hubs I'll use them. If not, the Selectro's I believe are the next best solution. Oh and, yes, I have managed to find a CV that is stronger than a FWH. It's called a 297x (or CTM, which I'm leaning towards).

"To be honest, all and all I am hoping for it to be less expensive to do part time. "

Hmmmm, less expensive than what? Less expensive than not doing it at all? I know you don't mean that, I'm just curious what you mean.

The spool that Cooper has is not going to be the cheapest thing around. Then again, I have never had to worry about anything he's ever done for me. Again, every conversion that he would ever do for me would come with an unconditional guarantee.

The AVM option is an interesting one. I am curious to see just what comes in the 'conversion kit'. I am also curious to see if it could handle 300-400hp over the long haul of serious heavy duty use. I am not knocking it, because I haven't seen it, so don't get me wrong.

The conversion going my way is certainly not inexpensive, but I am building vehicles that I don't ever want to have to tear into the inner workings of ever again (so we're going a bit overboard).

Let me know what you find out from AVM and if you decide to go that way.

Later,

Michael

[evilfij]

Cheaper to run part time w/ non cv shaft and less cv breakage than run full time with a cv shaft and cv breakage.

Since I have to buy one and install it no reason not to go PT. If you scroll back in the D90 list acrchieves I have been working on this for over a year.

I wonder if I can fit 110 stub axles to the suffix A axle to make the AVMs fit?

Anyone have some early 110 stub axles they want to sell? Are they reused when you convert to u joints? If I have to buy new stub axles perhaps I am better getting new inner axles with u joints?

I still might go with coops conversion, but like I said I will probably get one strait from ashcroft set up PT with 1.003 gears and ready to go.

Since I don't have Timm Cooper down the street, nor do I have a full machine shop or a blank check for the truck I am trying to find things that are strong, elegant, simple, and cost effective rather than the absolute "best" components. I am not afraid of breakage as I tend to carry the better part of a spare rover with me when I go places :) and I always have two trucks or else my wife would be the only one who would get to do any driving.

Ron

[western110]

I have my spare early 110 CV's in the garage if you need photos of them. I have not seen the later 32 spline CV's up close but they appear to be smaller than the early 110 units.

Andrew

[Serious One]

Hey Ron,

I *might* have a set of stub axles off of the axle from the 130. I can't remember how it all worked out, (it's been nearly 2 years since it's been a rolling chassis), but I seem to remember doing something different? I may be just rambling, but I'll look.

I also have a pic of the CV's out of that axle somewhere too. It's an '83, so I *presume* that they are some of the earliest CV's around.

Cooper is indeed a resource and a luxury to have him so close. If it weren't for him I would not be able to build the trucks I have so far. Don't worry, I don't have a bottomless pit full of blank checks either. I have begged, borrowed, stolen, bartered, etc...for a lot of the stuff we've done, plus paid a lot of cash straight out of pocket as well.

You can't do a project like any of the ones that we are all doing and expect it to be 'cheap' . One of the things I have learned up here, and especially after watching Timm for about 6 years building different things for me, is that yes, he does go overkill on about 99% of the things he does, BUT, he does so for a reason. I'm content to pay what I feel he deserves for the fabrication he's done.

Also, what alot of you guys probably don't know, is that these trucks aren't just 'toys' that I'm building for 'fun'. They're part of a really big project that as of yet is still in the building stages. I haven't made any 'official' announcements, but they will be forthcoming. :)

So, yes, the trucks are way cool to build, will be lots of fun to drive and have, but they are intended to be serious tools when they are all done. Keeping that in mind, think about your general attitude when you go out to buy tools. Do you head for the pawn shop, or do you buck up for Snap-On? Me, I fall kind of somewhere in the middle-ish-to-higher-middle-ish scale of that. If I could *truly* afford to have the trucks built totally for me by someone else I would have contraced ECR to do them (and IMO would have ended up with an inferior product).

So, I fiddle in the shop, turn bolts here and there, do wiring, run for parts, do the paint, etc...Things I can do that don't require really *that* much experience. When my skill set ends, I am lucky to have Cooper around to turn to for assistance.

I didn't mean for this post to come off all 'high and mighty' or anything like that. I just thought it might be interesting for you guys to see where I'm coming from. No flames intended, (my 'we MAKE them' post was a bit inflammatory though, I'll admit), and I actually do like the POR board a TON better than the D90 list.

I admire anyone like you Ron, or Bill or Shane or Doug, or anyone else that is putting their money where their mouth is and actually building the trucks that everyone else talks about. It's way cool to know that I'm not the only freak that dreams about LR parts.

Anyway, this has gotten long enough.

Later,

Michael

Oh, I'm looking for M11 hubs and/or BMC hubs now that you've gotten me leary of the Selectros. Anyone have a lead on them???

[JSBriggs]

That Mike guy is somthing else....

Well Mike it looks like we can play in the same sand box, just like old times.

-Jeff

[Serious One]

Hey NEWBIE!!! :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

That's the official POR salute, BTW.

Welcome to the sandbox man! It'll be just like old times???

Hey, can I borrow your trailer? Your spraypaint? Your rivits???? Oh wait, I'm thinking about someone else.

Tell everyone there hi.

Later,

M

[SuperJ]

I ran the selectros on my discovery before I swapped axles. The only problem with them is the stock seal is some made in malaysia $.39 piece of crap CR makes a much better double lipped nitrile seal that is a direct retrofit. I probably have the number written down somewhere yet.

[SuperJ]

I have been asked in a bunch of emails "what is the downside to part-time conversions?" I see only two: you must disable your ABS as the front sensor rings no longer turn once the hubs are freewheeling, if you have a stock two spider rear carrier it will wear rapidly and fail.

[Serious One]

So, what you're REALLY saying is that there are only positive benefits to the 2wd conversion.

You eliminate the ABS system and you will be forced to put a locker in the rear.

Hmmm, sounds like a win/win to me!

M

(who has the aforementioned conversions....)

[Diesel Jim]

just been reading through the above mails, and have a few answers/comments for some of them:

the reason that ashcroft charge so much for the early part time t/box is that they (LR) only made them for a year or 2 in the first run of the 110's, so they're rare as hens teeth:rolleyes:

i don't think that ashcroft send direct to the US anymore (something to do with insurance...allegidly) but if anyone wants stuff sent over, i'll gladly forward it on, and source any other bits you need, just for the measly price of a few :beer: :beer:

the 32 spline CV's are indeed smaller and weaker than the earlier 23 spline ones, you can tell which type your axle has by looking at the 5 bolt center drive hub. if it's a 'thin' type with a small (as in about 3/4" deep) rubber cap, then that's a 32spline. earlier 23 spline has a deep drive flange (like an inch or so) and a bigger rubber cap (2" or so)
all the stub axles are interchangable between early and late axles, also between front and rear (disc braked) axles.

I've got the part time t/box listed in my parts book if anyone wants a scan of it, along with the free wheeling hubs for the 5 stud drive hub.

IMO i've always thought coilers handled a little weird in rear wheel drive. when i;ve blown a front CV (not literally ;) ) and driven home with the front driveshaft removed always been a little front light, a bit like driving with a 3link. didn't really like it. much prefer full time 4wd.

mind you..... doughnuts ARE cool!

Jamie

[jeepdaddytj]

anyone have any pictures or a write up on welding the center diff?:D

[fridgefreezer]

This might give you the idea of what to do:
http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=11409

I realise it's an old thread but I'll add some info:
The Ashcroft kit is about £150 ($300) and comes with AVM FWH's, a few guys in the UK have bought the kit for their Series and hence have the hubs sat around gathering dust - you can't buy the kit without the hubs. I sold mine for about £10.

Although it's not very bling, my kit has stood up to a 4.6 V8 and a good few donuts ;) so the questions over reliability I would say don't worry.

I'd also say forget about fitting FWH's and getting better gas mileage, I don't think anyone has ever proved it works, and people have been fitting FWH's to Land Rovers for 60 years now.

[jeepdaddytj]

This might give you the idea of what to do:
http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=11409

I realise it's an old thread but I'll add some info:
The Ashcroft kit is about £150 ($300) and comes with AVM FWH's, a few guys in the UK have bought the kit for their Series and hence have the hubs sat around gathering dust - you can't buy the kit without the hubs. I sold mine for about £10.

Although it's not very bling, my kit has stood up to a 4.6 V8 and a good few donuts ;) so the questions over reliability I would say don't worry.

I'd also say forget about fitting FWH's and getting better gas mileage,

i'm not worried about gas mileage:D it's just a weekend toy:smokin:
thanks for the info , i haven't been to ashcrofts web site yet. although i'm kinda cheap are there any write up or pics of someone making the 'LT230' into a 2wd / 4wd .

i thought about welding the rear output spider gear to the carrier and machining off the front output gear to clear the spider gears . now only the center diff lock collar would lock the front output for 4wd.

i think it would work AND be cheap:grinpimp:

[fridgefreezer]

are there any write up or pics of someone making the 'LT230' into a 2wd / 4wd .
Try clicking the link I posted :flipoff2: if you're welding it, substitute "fit the rear gear to the housing" for "weld the rear gear to the housing":flipoff2:

[Dougal]

Once you're part time, are uni joints instead of CV's an option?

[revor]

I used to just take the diff out of the carrier and weld it up, pretty simple.. The hard part is grinding the splines out of the forward side gear to fit a bearing and grinding the splines off the shaft to fit the ID of the beaing.
You can also just cut the splined part off the front output shaft and make a bronze bushing to fit into the end of the carrier pretty easily, pretty crude but it works.. Get a bit of endfloat in the front shaft but they all seem to do that anyway.
Green is the carrier, read is the center diff, blue is where the front output needs to be polished for the bushing, gold is the bushing, yellow is where the front output shaft needs to be cut off.

[Strange Rover]

anyone have any pictures or a write up on welding the center diff?:D

The way we do it is to remove the 4 spider gears and cross shafts, weld the rear "side" gear into the hemisphere. Leave the front "side" gear standard and weld a small length of tube to the end of the rear "side" gear to stop the front "side" gear from falling off the front output shaft.

We have done heaps of these and other people have done heaps of these in Aust (I know of about 10 done like this) They are all in buggies and none of them see any part time highway miles...so I dont know how this would work on the hway with free wheeling hubs. If you ran solid front hubs to keep everything spinning then it wouldnt be an issue as everything will still spin at the same speed.

In all the buggies that this has been done to I dont know of any failures.

Sam

[HandBuilt]

The way I did it was to take the spiders out, leave the cross shafts, weld the cross shafts to a big fat washer, then weld to the rear "side" gear (the carrier is apparently cast and doesn't weld nice, but this is Timm's opinion, not mine, and I went with his tested method), and turn down the front output shaft to fit inside of a standard sealed ball bearing that's available that has the OD of the side gear and the ID matches whatever you machine the front shaft down to, I think it was 15mm in my case. My rig spends a lot of time in 2wd so I wanted a bearing supporting the shaft. I just peened the end of the side gear cavity to keep the bearing retained. Total cost 5$ and it's been working for a while now.

[aaron t]

The way I did it was to take the spiders out, leave the cross shafts, weld the cross shafts to a big fat washer, then weld to the rear "side" gear (the carrier is apparently cast and doesn't weld nice, but this is Timm's opinion, not mine, and I went with his tested method), and turn down the front output shaft to fit inside of a standard sealed ball bearing that's available that has the OD of the side gear and the ID matches whatever you machine the front shaft down to, I think it was 15mm in my case. My rig spends a lot of time in 2wd so I wanted a bearing supporting the shaft. I just peened the end of the side gear cavity to keep the bearing retained. Total cost 5$ and it's been working for a while now.

do you have a part number on the bearing? i am assuming this is a bearing you have to add not one existing.

i have a little jet 10x24 should be sufficient for the machining no?

[aaron t]

ps, is it possible to pull the front out put stuff out with the case still in the car, or is it just easier any way to pull the whole thing and work on it out?

[HandBuilt]

ps, is it possible to pull the front out put stuff out with the case still in the car, or is it just easier any way to pull the whole thing and work on it out?

Yeah you can pull the front nose out while it's in the car, but it's easier with the T case off as you have to get at the little shift detent balls and springs. I would probably just remove the front nose with the case in the truck.

[HandBuilt]

do you have a part number on the bearing? i am assuming this is a bearing you have to add not one existing.

i have a little jet 10x24 should be sufficient for the machining no?

Would you like me to come over to your place and do it for you? Maybe bring some beer too? :flipoff2:

Seriously - It's not rocket science. Just measure the side gear diameter. It's 30 or 35 mm IIRC. The bearing ID will be whatever. The width does not matter. Just get a bearing. I got mine from a farm store.

All you are turning is the front output shaft which is roughly the size of a 1/2 drive ratchet. There are a few ways to set it up on any lathe, I used my 13X36 with a 1 3/4 headstock bore and it took about 15 minutes. If your jet has a weenie headstock bore you may have to set it up between centers which would suck as the shaft may not be end drilled.

Oh yeah, beware, the surface is hardened. You are going to have to use carbide and take a big ass cut on the first pass to peel off the surface hardening. The surface hardening isn't very deep, the shaft is actually really soft once you get through the surface.

[jeepdaddytj]

Yeah you can pull the front nose out while it's in the car, but it's easier with the T case off as you have to get at the little shift detent balls and springs. I would probably just remove the front nose with the case in the truck.

nice to know!!! since i don't plan on running hubs on the front axle , think i should bother with a bearing? or just let the side gear hold the end of the shaft in place:D

[HandBuilt]

nice to know!!! since i don't plan on running hubs on the front axle , think i should bother with a bearing? or just let the side gear hold the end of the shaft in place:D

I dunno why you would convert if you aren't running hubs ??

[jeepdaddytj]

1. to have 2wd low range
2. drive better with rear locked up
3.tired of front wheel drive burnouts when pulling out of driveway / stoplights when raining-snowing:shaking:

really hate # 3



all wheel drive isn't for everyone

[aaron t]

Would you like me to come over to your place and do it for you? Maybe bring some beer too? :flipoff2:

Seriously - It's not rocket science. Just measure the side gear diameter. It's 30 or 35 mm IIRC. The bearing ID will be whatever. The width does not matter. Just get a bearing. I got mine from a farm store.



can you bring the "real" molson?:flipoff2:

i have rebuilt and re-geared 3 different toy tcases and one dana 300, but this land rover thing scares me for some reason.....:D

[aaron t]

i can fit up to 5" diameter stock in my headstock, 3 jaw with two sets of jaws...

the bore in the back of the headstock is only 1 1/4 tho:(

i am guessing this is what you mean. really new to the home machining thing.

[aaron t]

I used to just take the diff out of the carrier and weld it up, pretty simple.. The hard part is grinding the splines out of the forward side gear to fit a bearing and grinding the splines off the shaft to fit the ID of the beaing.
You can also just cut the splined part off the front output shaft and make a bronze bushing to fit into the end of the carrier pretty easily, pretty crude but it works.. Get a bit of endfloat in the front shaft but they all seem to do that anyway.
Green is the carrier, read is the center diff, blue is where the front output needs to be polished for the bushing, gold is the bushing, yellow is where the front output shaft needs to be cut off.

keith, do you have a bigger picture of that? i have a crappy downloaded pdf of the case, and i think i have the idea...but

[HandBuilt]

i can fit up to 5" diameter stock in my headstock, 3 jaw with two sets of jaws...

the bore in the back of the headstock is only 1 1/4 tho:(

i am guessing this is what you mean. really new to the home machining thing.

That should work out. 1 1/4 headstock bore (probably not the right terminology, so :flipoff2:) should do it.

Seriously it's easy...

[Dougal]

1. to have 2wd low range
2. drive better with rear locked up
3.tired of front wheel drive burnouts when pulling out of driveway / stoplights when raining-snowing:shaking:

really hate # 3

all wheel drive isn't for everyone

Why do you need 2wd low range?
If it's slippery enough for the front wheels to let go, then use the center difflock.:D

[Strange Rover]

nice to know!!! since i don't plan on running hubs on the front axle , think i should bother with a bearing? or just let the side gear hold the end of the shaft in place:D

I wouldnt bother with the bearing - everything will be spinning as the same speed and the slip will be minimal. We would probably see more differnece in speed in the buggies - doing rear burns, donuts, burnouts etc.

Im actually going to be doing this to a transfer case soon (hopefully in the next few weeks) so I can take heaps of pics if you want...really simple modification though.

Sam

[HandBuilt]

I wouldnt bother with the bearing - everything will be spinning as the same speed and the slip will be minimal. We would probably see more differnece in speed in the buggies - doing rear burns, donuts, burnouts etc.

Im actually going to be doing this to a transfer case soon (hopefully in the next few weeks) so I can take heaps of pics if you want...really simple modification though.

Sam

Sam is right, with no hubs there would be little if no difference. I put a bearing in as mine spends a lot of time in 2wd with the hubs unlocked.

[RockRover]

Hey Sam, you probably missed it in the last post, but if you don't mind, take pics of the rear disconnect as well. Not the Santana gear box bit's conversion, but the disconnect.

I think this option is most likely the best alternative.

--D

[jeepdaddytj]

I wouldnt bother with the bearing - everything will be spinning as the same speed and the slip will be minimal. We would probably see more differnece in speed in the buggies - doing rear burns, donuts, burnouts etc.

Im actually going to be doing this to a transfer case soon (hopefully in the next few weeks) so I can take heaps of pics if you want...really simple modification though.

Sam

pics would be sweet:D

[ashtrans]

Hey Sam, you probably missed it in the last post, but if you don't mind, take pics of the rear disconnect as well. Not the Santana gear box bit's conversion, but the disconnect.

I think this option is most likely the best alternative.

--D


Hi Sam,

I would also be interested in how you mod the LT230 to a rear disconnect,