I haven't posted here in a while but after reading Lance's no tech in the tech section post I figured I'd give it a shot. Before I go on I know my jeep is kinda hoaky right now which is why I am looking for suggestions to make it more road friendly. I want to put my wife and 4 month old in it and take em to do some light wheeling. Since I got it the jeep has not let me down towing 4 kegs to the clean up, all the way through on the 4th, jergins trips, fordyce etc..

I got a wobble after the last trip though the rubicon and it has sort of been a disease on the thing. I tried to fix it by checking the alignment (new tie rod) and putting on braced shackles. It helped but I still got the death wobble sometime and in a 80" wheelbase vehicle on 35's SOA that is kinda scary

After numerous attempts I decided on an axle swap since the knuckles were never turned when the SOA was done so the steering angles caused a dive effect. I chose toyota running gear since I have had good luck with it in my truck. In the rear I chose a Land Cruiser axle because of the offset with my Spicer18 tcase.

Anyway, the wobble is worse than ever - whenever I hit a bump over 5mph it goes nuts. I found what is part of the problem, the frame hole for the shackle is pretty ovaled so I am thinking of redoing that hole, and swapping to wider springs while I am at it.

My questions are:
Should I outboard the rear springs (spring width on an early jeep is very narrow!

I think I'll ditch my home-made arm for hi-steer, are different arms different heights? As you can see my drag link goes up now so a flatter arm is better

Other than that any suggestions much appreciated. Roll cage rework is in the plan to - down to the frame (the body is glass and would probably just shatter in a good roll).

and the pics..



http://www.rivercityrockcrawlers.com/TechReports/BornAgain/1_21_02/DSC00304.JPG



http://www.rivercityrockcrawlers.com/TechReports/BornAgain/1_21_02/DSC00299.JPG

Shouldn't your drag link be parallel to the tie rod? Try and flatter pit man arm and maybe a steering stabilizer. The stabilizer helped my cruiser out 10 fold. I could actually max out that f motor on the highway (Until I put on a set of un-balanced swampers that is. :D)

I see no shocks, but I would assume you do have shocks?

For a "wobble", I would look to a GOOD set of shocks, and fix the steering.

For the steering, I would suggest you go back to stock Toyota arms, but have someone make you a HD tie rod with a drag link attachment built in, and run a slightly bent S link there...

Originally posted by DRM
I see no shocks, but I would assume you do have shocks?

For a "wobble", I would look to a GOOD set of shocks, and fix the steering.




This would be my FIRST move. I remember riding in Arts truck with no shocks. It was insane how bad the wobble was. After the shocks were installed, it was quite managable. After that, the resolution was to correct the minor steering (geometry) issues.

Originally posted by DRM
I see no shocks, but I would assume you do have shocks?

For a "wobble", I would look to a GOOD set of shocks, and fix the steering.

For the steering, I would suggest you go back to stock Toyota arms, but have someone make you a HD tie rod with a drag link attachment built in, and run a slightly bent S link there...

Never seen a toy with the drag link connected to the tie rod, I was ready to buy hi-steer arms but cheaper is better for cheap ass me! Hmm

For sure get some good shocks on it. Toss the idea with the "S" drag link, it does nothing but allow clearance. Like was mentioned above, run a different pitam arm to get the rods parallel. A stab would also help a great deal. Going with the high steer arms would also be another option to get the rods parallel, instead of the flatter pitman arm. Brandon, huge difference in my jeep with the shocks on 1 as opposed to 5, I think shocks will help alot.

ok, anyone know a saginaw type arm that is flatter than a jeep wagoneer arm?

I ditched the like 6" drop arm on my dana30 for that one, thought it was better to run flat but it didn't quite work as planned LOL

what sexy rear end! did you get teh dline figured yet? jiMMy

Brandon, when do you get the wobble? I just went through this with mine, and finally got it fixed

I redrilled it, so yep. Been driving the jeep daily - bout 5mph on slow streets though LOL

http://www.rivercityrockcrawlers.com/TechReports/BornAgain/1_21_02/DSC00300.JPG

Originally posted by RCKRATZ
Brandon, when do you get the wobble? I just went through this with mine, and finally got it fixed

whenever I hit a bump going over say 10mph

It is not speed related really, just gotta be moving a bit to set it off. New stabilizer and shocks are definately on the short term list. Steering and swapping springs are on the list too, looks pretty hoaky with narrow springs on wide perches

hate to chop the cool stock front spring hangers (gotta love a factory shackle reversal on a jeep) but I think wider springs would be a good thing

PS - love the sig..

If you want the cheap way to fix the draglink issues... oversize drill the hole in the pitman arm, and weld in an insert (like FROR does for their Toy pitman arms) but this time, run the tie rod end form the top side. Should get you close to level with the drag link.

As for the wobble, have you checked the angle on the knuckles as compared to a stock Toyota truck? Cheap way to fix would be some shims under the springs, hard way is to cut and turn the knuckles.

Shocks and a stabilizer - I would guess would solve a big parts of your problem :p

Originally posted by Brandon


whenever I hit a bump going over say 10mph

It is not speed related really, just gotta be moving a bit to set it off. New stabilizer and shocks are definately on the short term list. Steering and swapping springs are on the list too, looks pretty hoaky with narrow springs on wide perches

hate to chop the cool stock front spring hangers (gotta love a factory shackle reversal on a jeep) but I think wider springs would be a good thing

PS - love the sig..

What size shocks do you need? I have a set of gas shocks that came off the back of my 97 GMC. I was gonna use them on the rear of the cruiser but they are too long. Give me some measurements, if they will work, they're yours.

:blush: I got shocks, just need to mount them - gotta build some shock towers for them or something. On the other axle they were mounted down toward the bottom of the tube but the stops are kinda in the way on the toy one so I gotta put them on top which means raising the shock towers up.

I need a stabilizer but I suppose that is worth the $$ :)

...By wobble, do you mean the whole thing goes NUTZ, everything shaking to shit, so much so that you have to stop the POS to make the shaking stop?

Not having shocks could definately be causing your wobble problem. See my reply on RCRC, I didn't know you posted this here too. :)

You can use the tie rod and drap link from a FJ60 land cruiser. That is what I have on my Toy. It does not have a bent drag link as there is no leaf springs in the way(coils)

I would shoot a pic for you but no digi cam :rasta:

...I got that too. I thought (initially) that it was from my lack of shocks in the rear. It started after a trip to the Wheaton River in the summer. Then I thought it was because I busted a rear main leaf :rolleyes: :D... No dice - the Chev swap didn't fix it. I also thought it might be my bow-shaped tie rod and resulting retarded toe-in... Nope. (Fixed that with a bottle jack tho - straight as an arrow now :rolleyes: )

Aaaaaaaaaanyways, it turned out that when my truck took a swim (a quarter way up the windshield :D) in the Wheaton, the water that seeped into the hub was enough to seize the outer wheel bearing, which then took a SHIT in my hub.

...Might want to check your bearings. I'm sure you already did that, but just in case...

Originally posted by ColdNorth
...I got that too. I thought (initially) that it was from my lack of shocks in the rear. It started after a trip to the Wheaton River in the summer. Then I thought it was because I busted a rear main leaf :rolleyes: :D... No dice - the Chev swap didn't fix it. I also thought it might be my bow-shaped tie rod and resulting retarded toe-in... Nope. (Fixed that with a bottle jack tho - straight as an arrow now :rolleyes: )

Aaaaaaaaaanyways, it turned out that when my truck took a swim (a quarter way up the windshield :D) in the Wheaton, the water that seeped into the hub was enough to seize the outer wheel bearing, which then took a SHIT in my hub.

...Might want to check your bearings. I'm sure you already did that, but just in case...

actually I haven't but I got a lot of stuff to do today when I get home :)

Thanks for the help all! (and yea go totally nuts must stop wobble)

here is how I'am doing mine, I will use a solid yierod only above the springs and weld on 1" thick steel drilled for 1ton chevy tierod.

Ideally I'd like to copy the truck (less spare parts) but the truck don't have a toy front end anymore, although I suppose I could get arms that have the GM taper in them and use the same ends on both rigs..



http://www.rivercityrockcrawlers.com/TechReports/MoPower/steering/mofront.jpg

Originally posted by Brandon


actually I haven't but I got a lot of stuff to do today when I get home :)

Thanks for the help all! (and yea go totally nuts must stop wobble)

Mine was visible by just pulling the locking hub and the STUPID-MOTHERFAWKING-NUT-I-HAD-TO-BUY-A-HUGE-SOCKET-FOR :rolleyes: ... There was a 1" gap in rollers from the rollers that got eaten when the bearing spun... I could flick the rollers from the bearing around... Spent half an hour playing with them. It was kind of fun. :D (It also coincidentally took me half an hour to figure out how to get the hub off the spindle. Ya, I suck. :D)

hey, last time I took my truck apart (toy front end) the bearing had welded itself to the spindle! No wobble though, that thing was amazing - taco tie rod and frozen wheel bearings and it pulled a bit but drove like a champ! :D

Originally posted by Brandon


whenever I hit a bump going over say 10mph

It is not speed related really, just gotta be moving a bit to set it off. New stabilizer and shocks are definately on the short term list. Steering and swapping springs are on the list too, looks pretty hoaky with narrow springs on wide perches

hate to chop the cool stock front spring hangers (gotta love a factory shackle reversal on a jeep) but I think wider springs would be a good thing

PS - love the sig..

mine did the same damn thing. Caster was fawked

Originally posted by Brandon
hey, last time I took my truck apart (toy front end) the bearing had welded itself to the spindle! No wobble though, that thing was amazing - taco tie rod and frozen wheel bearings and it pulled a bit but drove like a champ! :D

I'd say our trucks were brothers. :D It took me forever to get that shit out... I couldn't find the right puller, either... I had to use a shitty one and use my LUGNUTS as pull points... Fawkin' Canadian Tire. :D Mine was frozen pretty good to the spindle as well. Drove fine except when I hit a bump, and then I thought I was going to DIE. :D

he he my puller just destroyed the bearing leaving the race, it took a lot of cutting and grinding to get that race off :)

That was one of the reasons I put the toy front end under the jeep - NOTHING can make it wobble! (uh huh)

I think the hoaky early jeep bushings aren't much of a help.

Originally posted by Brandon
he he my puller just destroyed the bearing leaving the race, it took a lot of cutting and grinding to get that race off :)


...I was lucky it didn't come to that. I have a rediculous(ly small :D) amount of tools, and I would've been fucked because I can't drive a 3-wheeled truck down to buy tools with $$ I don't have. :D

Mind you (and considering the origin of this thread), without this board I would've been TOTALLY FAWKED, because I would've been CLUELESS.

...Then again, without this board, I probably wouldn't've tried driving my truck into a 4' deep river. :rolleyes:

That was one of the reasons I put the toy front end under the jeep - NOTHING can make it wobble! (uh huh)

Toy shit is great... It'll work through just about anything... Only problem is when it goes, you DIE. Hehe... I had a ex- in the truck with me one time it did its 'thing'... I thought she shit her pants by the look on her face. :D

Bah. Everything on my truck is FUCKED. Rear xcase output is hooped. Good thing I can use the front for a donor for the crawl box. :D I also stuffed the diff into the oilpan. I have to say that's pretty cool (be cooler if it didn't leak oil. :D) Hehe.. :D

definetly change the draglink angle and run a panhard bar at the same angle as the draglink makes a big difference.l

Not sure if this was covered before, but have you checked your caster? It doesn't sound like that was addressed in the original swap, and you didn't mention it in the post.

Do you feel like you are driving a shopping cart with a bad wheel?

Sorry to change the subject, but how's the 5.0 running?? Will we ever see a write-up?!?!

I'd say try to cure the wobble without a stablizer. Two reasons, you will end up destroying the stablizer and having to replace it several times and second, you will not be getting rid of the real problem you will only be masking it.

after checking the angles and the wheel bearings I have decided it is the ovaled holes in the frame - time for new springs and a new tube in the frame..

(of course all the rest of the little things is not helping)

Originally posted by convertiyota
Sorry to change the subject, but how's the 5.0 running?? Will we ever see a write-up?!?!

Mo got one trip to Jergins (http://www.rivercityrockcrawlers.com/TrailReports/Jergins/Jergins_oct01/Jergins01.html) and a lot of bugs showed themself. Inner front axle seal leaks like crazy, power steering pump is shot, caliper froze on the way home (no wobbles though!), no gauges, and the engine started to act funny.

Anyway, I got new calipers on, redneck ram hydraulic assist in the works, new dash cut out of aluminum and all autmoter gauges. BUT I got 2 rigs and I want to get atleast one of them running so I can drive it to work. I thought it would be easy to throw some toyota axles under the jeep, nothing is ever easy though :rolleyes:

Now with me working out of town every other week, 4 month old baby, lots of house projects and a SEVERE lack of funds (wife no longer works) the truck is collecting cobwebs but as soon as I work out the bugs on the jeep it is back to the truck..

Stock CJ pitmans are perfectly flat so that will help your draglink problem, the wobble will be fixed with your bearings shocks/steering stabilizer. I don't care if Stabilizers just cover the problem, if it drives fine I don't care if it needs to be replaced every 2 years (whats that like $2 a month for 2 years out of a stabilizer?)

Originally posted by Brandon
ok, anyone know a saginaw type arm that is flatter than a jeep wagoneer arm?

I ditched the like 6" drop arm on my dana30 for that one, thought it was better to run flat but it didn't quite work as planned LOL



mid 70's comaros and nova's almost perfectly flat