How fawked are these springs?? Stupid honeymoon, should've bought parabolics instead.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/suntzu_2002/springs.jpg

They are OK they have just started to rust between the leaves which is causing them to spread. If you hurry you can fix them before it is too late. Take them off, dismantle the spring pack, grind all the rust away and grease liberally on reassembly. If you coat them with spray on grease occasionally it won't happen again.

They are OK they have just started to rust between the leaves which is causing them to spread. If you hurry you can fix them before it is too late. Take them off, dismantle the spring pack, grind all the rust away and grease liberally on reassembly. If you coat them with spray on grease occasionally it won't happen again.

I usually just dismantle them and sandblast them but grinding works too, whatever's best for you. I never grease springs, only paint. Grease holds the shit in, and in my salty ugly environment it's a recipe for accelerated wear.

Leaf springs! :(

What exactly are you concerned about. Rust or the splaying of the spring pack. The splaying of the spring pack is likely due to axle wrap, and heavy offroad use. Leaf srping packs get this funky splayed shape after they have been worked very hard, and if they do not have a suitable anit wrap spring. As for the surface rust, just clean them up

Leaf springs! :(

I nominate you goo goobler :barf:

Go ahead and die already.


KC you may be off the mark on this. I would agree with sag and age, but rust and splay as earlier mentioned is the biggest problem here.

But i'm just some guy spweying on the intardnet.

I'm worried about the splaying, if rust is causing the splaying, than I'm concerned about that too. Either way, you guys don't think they're completely hosed? Because if they are, I'll just save up my pennies for some parabolics. Check this out, this is parked outside my house, and the reason I haven't posted any articulation pics yet:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/suntzu_2002/springgap.jpg

Leaf springs! :(

Yeah, leaf springs are just junk. Maybe this newb isn't so bad after all. I love you newb.

Hmm, Leaf springs splaying from being used beyond their capability causes leaf splay on every other leaf sprung truck I have seen. Look at the facts as we have them. The guy seems a bit agged by the fact that the springs are already having issues. So with that, he must not have had them very long. Now he shows us a pic of how low the truck is sitting. He wants to know if parabolics are a good choice. So with that, he likely is not worried about rust, because parabolic or not springs rust if not taken care of Factory or otherwise. You can see a relatively debris free gap between the leaves. Blah blah blah. Bottom line, is that he likely has over extended the usefullness of that spring set, and it likely is not a good spring set for his type of driving. Any rust between those leaves is likely from have the over exagerated air gap between the springs, making it easier for salt and dirt to collect in the pack. Thus ultimatly becoming the crusty rust encased springs you see in the junk yard.

Granted, I do not dispute that rust can form between a new or used leaf pack and ultimatly result in a similar situation. But the shape and form that this pack has taken is typical of leaf splay.

This is just my opinion of what has taken place here in this particualr situation not what has happend on any of your guys trucks!!

Yeah, leaf springs are just junk. Maybe this newb isn't so bad after all. I love you newb.

From what I understand that guy is just here gunning for trouble. He and some mates are disgruntled about their bud joining the band. I wonder if they are launching a virus attack on us as well. Considering the problems with the board lately.

JP

I just call him goo for short

Hmm, Leaf springs splaying from being used beyond their capability causes leaf splay on every other leaf sprung truck I have seen. Look at the facts as we have them. The guy seems a bit agged by the fact that the springs are already having issues. So with that, he must not have had them very long. Now he shows us a pic of how low the truck is sitting. He wants to know if parabolics are a good choice. So with that, he likely is not worried about rust, because parabolic or not springs rust if not taken care of Factory or otherwise. You can see a relatively debris free gap between the leaves. Blah blah blah. Bottom line, is that he likely has over extended the usefullness of that spring set, and it likely is not a good spring set for his type of driving. Any rust between those leaves is likely from have the over exagerated air gap between the springs, making it easier for salt and dirt to collect in the pack. Thus ultimatly becoming the crusty rust encased springs you see in the junk yard.

Granted, I do not dispute that rust can form between a new or used leaf pack and ultimatly result in a similar situation. But the shape and form that this pack has taken is typical of leaf splay.

This is just my opinion of what has taken place here in this particualr situation not what has happend on any of your guys trucks!!

Well it ain't axle wrap,454.

Those suckas are perfect for a spring over now. Nice and flat.

Billster

Well it ain't axle wrap,454.

Axle wrap does not require HP, it only requires torque. And we all know that Torque can be accomplished with gearing. Of course a little HP can exagerate it a little though!

I have never seen a set of series front springs splayed because of axle wrap. I have seen plenty that have splayed because of rust between the leaves though - and it definitely wasn't a case of splaying first rusting later.

These springs look a bit flat though. You will either need to find a good spring shop to reset them (and make the curve correct again) or buy some new springs.

I wouldn't waste any time with the old springs.
Parabolics are truly an awsome effect over even new stock Rover springs.
I am using Rocky Mountains. I have a 5500lb 88 and have 3 leafs front and rear. Love em.

Damnit, I don't know who that other guy was, and have nothing to do with him. :mad3:

The reason I :( 'd at the mention of leaf springs is that, unless you're a oval-track racer and need a super highly tuned spring rate, or are an expedition-tuned guy carrying sustained loads over long distance, leaf springs will just give you a harsh ride.

Even with a parabolic setup, unless you pack your leaf-spring setup in grease every winter like the Solihull Society guys, they'll just rust out and have you bumpin' along like a wagon on a washboard road.

Even with a parabolic setup, unless you pack your leaf-spring setup in grease every winter like the Solihull Society guys, they'll just rust out and have you bumpin' along like a wagon on a washboard road.

So I guess Leafsprung, Handbuilt, myself and all the other who drive series (real) rovers should convert to coils then just to make you happy???

With parabolic springs the leafs do not touch each other except at the ends and in the middle. So most of the spring can retain the paint they come with from the factory. Parabolics don't rust any more than coils do.

Even with semi-elliptic springs it is easy to put in a little bit of maintenance now and again to make sure they don't rust between the leaves. And My IIA 109 with leaves is almost as comfortable as my D110.

Damnit, I don't know who that other guy was, and have nothing to do with him. :mad3:

I remain unconvinced but time will tell. Your banter about leaf springs seems like your first real post. Everything before that seemed like a poor attempt to defame the PBB. As I said time will tell.

JP

Damnit, I don't know who that other guy was, and have nothing to do with him. :mad3:

The reason I :( 'd at the mention of leaf springs is that, unless you're a oval-track racer and need a super highly tuned spring rate, or are an expedition-tuned guy carrying sustained loads over long distance, leaf springs will just give you a harsh ride.

Even with a parabolic setup, unless you pack your leaf-spring setup in grease every winter like the Solihull Society guys, they'll just rust out and have you bumpin' along like a wagon on a washboard road.


you sir, are wrong.

That being said, do you really thing anyone who owns a series really cares about the "ride"?

The reason I :( 'd at the mention of leaf springs is that, unless you're a oval-track racer and need a super highly tuned spring rate, or are an expedition-tuned guy carrying sustained loads over long distance, leaf springs will just give you a harsh ride.

Even with a parabolic setup, unless you pack your leaf-spring setup in grease every winter like the Solihull Society guys, they'll just rust out and have you bumpin' along like a wagon on a washboard road.

How many miles have you driven a series truck? You should really watch your tongue. Right now you are coming off as the intarweb equivalent of a manure spreader. If you don't know, don't say.

Leaf springs aren't the problem. Series trucks are the problem. The leaf spring arrangement is poor. The fronts are too short and they aren't tuned to the vehicle. They have a lot of arch for the length and that makes them ride way stiff. Parabolics are a way around it. They aren't fixing the problem.

Now take a Leaf truck (like my trucks) and do a spring over. And put rear 88 springs on the front, de-arched so they aren't so buckboard hard. Extend the frame horns. Relocate the shackle. You end up with a 48" long totally flat leaf spring at all 4 corners. The axles are on the bottom of the leafs. You get about 6" up travel, and about 8" down. That equates to maxing out a 9014 at all 4 corners. And that interleaf friction that everyone complains about is what gives the thing such a confident feeling on the highway - it's like a swaybar that automatically disconnects when you start really working the suspension. Sprung over series trucks drive awesome. They are a little bumpier than a coiler, however I get 5" of lift out of SPOA 109's and they drive wicked - Stable, smooth, not harsh at all. Put that amount of lift into your glorious disco and see how it feels at 85 mph.

Leafs aren't the problem. It's the geometry of the vehicle. On a leaf truck you can improve easily. On a coiler you're stuck with all the puss-assedness of a mall crawling suspension.

Even with a parabolic setup, unless you pack your leaf-spring setup in grease every winter like the Solihull Society guys, they'll just rust out and have you bumpin' along like a wagon on a washboard road.

How do you grease a spring pack and not have the grease attract dust and dirt and turn said grease into grinding compound?

Unless you have a sure fire way to shrinkwrap the leave pack or live in environment with zero dust I would think you would destroy your pack in short order.

What some people have done is disassemble the spring pack. Clean, sand smooth and paint each leave. When reassembling you add thin teflon like piece of plastic tape between each leaf.

How many miles have you driven a series truck? You should really watch your tongue. Right now you are coming off as the intarweb equivalent of a manure spreader. If you don't know, don't say.

I do know.

Leaf springs aren't the problem. Series trucks are the problem. The leaf spring arrangement is poor. The fronts are too short and they aren't tuned to the vehicle. They have a lot of arch for the length and that makes them ride way stiff. Parabolics are a way around it. They aren't fixing the problem.

Now take a Leaf truck (like my trucks) and do a spring over. And put rear 88 springs on the front, de-arched so they aren't so buckboard hard. Extend the frame horns. Relocate the shackle. You end up with a 48" long totally flat leaf spring at all 4 corners. The axles are on the bottom of the leafs. You get about 6" up travel, and about 8" down. That equates to maxing out a 9014 at all 4 corners. And that interleaf friction that everyone complains about is what gives the thing such a confident feeling on the highway - it's like a swaybar that automatically disconnects when you start really working the suspension. Sprung over series trucks drive awesome. They are a little bumpier than a coiler, however I get 5" of lift out of SPOA 109's and they drive wicked - Stable, smooth, not harsh at all. Put that amount of lift into your glorious disco and see how it feels at 85 mph.

Leafs aren't the problem. It's the geometry of the vehicle. On a leaf truck you can improve easily. On a coiler you're stuck with all the puss-assedness of a mall crawling suspension.

Not everyone is interested in rice-rocketing out their classic Land Rover with a 5" lift.

I agree, leaf springs do have their application... but they are very user specific and require precise tuning. For light off-roading and driving around town, coils are just more comfortable.

I wish my Disco could hit 85 mph :(

How do you grease a spring pack and not have the grease attract dust and dirt and turn said grease into grinding compound?

Unless you have a sure fire way to shrinkwrap the leave pack or live in environment with zero dust I would think you would destroy your pack in short order.

From what I've seen, it isn't that difficult... like you said, just being careful and make sure you don't introduce anything bad.

Also, coils have the option of spacers... and allow for good axle drop, at the expense of stability obviously. Leafs tend to pull upward, which isn't good for articulation and flex.

It all comes down to personal preference, I believe.

I do know.

I agree, leaf springs do have their application... but they are very user specific and require precise tuning. For light off-roading and driving around town, coils are just more comfortable.

I wish my Disco could hit 85 mph :(

Yes, leaf springs are very specific and require precise tuning. Like, for example, the 80 000 lbs GVWR TOR crane carrier I am certifying next week. It has 9" thick of leaves. 1/8" and up welded plate construction. I am sure the manufacturer has gone to considerable effort to ensure that the springs closely match the weight dynamics of this vehicle. We wouldn't want this behemoth to be out of tune.

It all comes down to personal preference. That's why blanket statements about leaf springs being inherently bad because your personal preference is coils are stupid.

I hear music.

What some people have done is disassemble the spring pack. Clean, sand smooth and paint each leave. When reassembling you add thin teflon like piece of plastic tape between each leaf.
Yeah, if my leaves weren't so flat, I'd do this. It's UHMW Polyethylene plastic tape. Part number: 76445A24 at http://www.mcmaster.com/ Take the pack apart, use a good rust proofing paint, and stick a strip of that to each leaf. If anyone wants my flat as Kansas springs for a spring over, when I get rid of them, you're welcome to 'em. The rears aren't splayed like the fronts.

It all comes down to personal preference. That's why blanket statements about leaf springs being inherently bad because your personal preference is coils are stupid.

I wasn't really making a blanket statement, and I never said they were inherently bad. Yes, my personal preference is coil springs, and I explained the reasons why in my previous post.

Edit: Either way, I do tend to have a big mouth, which probably isn't appropriate at this point. I was just trying to throw in my 2 cents about leafs, not get into another flame.

From what I've seen, it isn't that difficult... like you said, just being careful and make sure you don't introduce anything bad.

Also, coils have the option of spacers... and allow for good axle drop, at the expense of stability obviously. Leafs tend to pull upward, which isn't good for articulation and flex.

It all comes down to personal preference, I believe.

I was going to let this post slide because usually I'm not a mean guy, but I figure I can help you.

This board is a little different than other rover boards. It's not an attitude thing, it's a competency thing. For example. You don't really have to tell anyone about the potential problems or wonders of running coil spring spacers with unrestrained coils. Or the fact that leaf springs act like restrained coil springs when they're extended. Or that you need to be careful that you don't introduce anything bad. Stuff like that. It's useless information. It's stuff everyone already knows. If they didn't, they would be on another rover board. If they asked it here, they would get flamed. See, all of us are tired of the fuzz that permeates all the other rover boards. The stupid redundant answers from people who are just recycling total BS that they heard or read or stole from a UK rover magazine. Disinformation. By broadcasting useless drivel, rover newfies are effectively making the world a worse place.

That's why when you say something that resembles useless crap, it gets moved, deleted, detroyed, or worse. This place is a sanctum of good information. We work hard to keep the weeds out. If you want to play nice, listen lots (like I do) and talk little, you'll be fine. If you're expecting to prove to everyone how smart you are with some clever posting and discussion on how bad leaf springs are, you're going to die young.






-

How fawked are these springs?? Stupid honeymoon, should've bought parabolics instead.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/suntzu_2002/springs.jpg

dang guys...wasted all tha bandwith here..Stirling wants DONATIONS towards teh parabolics I couldn't afford to give him when I sold The African to him many years ago when the springs were long gone flat more than twenty-some years before my purchase...I had picked up the prototype Rocky mountain two-leafer front/rear parabolics from Ray for Elgie, and was about to buy more for this beastie for my pops to drive, when I ran outa money and a job and sold to Stirling...
the poor bugger has spent all his cash that would have gone into a second rover for the beloved Amy on th wedding to make things memorable, and now can't even afford the parabolics sooooooo badly needed. I am again w/o employment but will pledge the first twenty bucks towards new springs if y'all will do the same? Amy is worth it...she really loves rovers.

paul(yeah it's teh tequila....heck! if ya pledge enough, he can finally buy the second ne and they won't have to share this one!)

Even got my dad <who was laid off yet again and now living with us> looking at Dormobiles!

Have another drink Paul, I'll get those parabolics yet! :blender:

Even got my dad <who was laid off yet again and now living with us> looking at Dormobiles!

Have another drink Paul, I'll get those parabolics yet! :blender:
Hic! I brought back my ol colledge standby: Jalapeno shooter! :D biig-ass jalepeno(bite half of it) than lick salt off your hand, than shot of cuervo! (from lazy-bugger (t/m) shot glasses if handybasicly a series rover fuel-pump bowl) mmm! funny what you forget over teh years.....been a while.

Yeah! send me some shots of it articulating when done! ;-) I'm about to finally do those damn annoying forklift shots/measurements of all four fovers for curiosity as I have access to teh heister shop on week-ends.

Elisa's friend just finished last pre-med class and w were "forced to ahve a mid day celebration...which of course fawked up my whole job-search for teh day! :flipoff2: will ahve to work extra hard on monday..may end up washing airplanes again after all like you...
btw tried to IM ou when you logged into yaho messenger, and got no reply last night?

rover content...can't get teh dang pass side lock switch to work wit the remote still...need to tear off door-panel and lubricate teh shit ota everything and maybe adjust that and drivers door-handle rod so it opens w/o pushing on teh door...

Paul

From what I've seen, it isn't that difficult... like you said, just being careful and make sure you don't introduce anything bad.


Like drive the vehicle off road or during dry dusty months????
How do you prevent grit from getting into the springs after greased?

Also when compared to stock Land Rover springs parabolics are very comporable price wise and the do amazing offroad. I have not had any problems keeping up with stock and lightly built coilers with my parabolics. And in some cases these coilers cant keep up with me :)
(timtaylorvoice) More Power oo oo ooo (/timtaylorvoice)

Whow. I have never seen anyone get Handbuilt so worked up. Better just give in dyesoon. Look for some quailty content to spew.

JP
leaves are for lovers, Rover lovers that is.

I have never seen any definitive proof that greasing leaf springs will accelerate their wear. I went through about a year of greasing my springs with spray grease (then I got too lazy - and wasn't noticing any comfort/articulation difference - wasn't doing it to prevent rust) with no ill effects, and I wheel in really dusty conditions. I think the metal on metal contact of standard springs would be as bad or worse than a combination of dust/grease. I have a few sets of old military rear springs that have never been greased and they have worn down from 0.28" to 0.23" where the leaves have been rubbing together.

Extend the frame horns. Relocate the shackle. You end up with a 48" long totally flat leaf spring at all 4 corners. The axles are on the bottom of the leafs. You get about 6" up travel, and about 8" down. That equates to maxing out a 9014 at all 4 corners.

While I agree with what you are saying, you should be able to get a lot more travel than that. I can get more from the modified semi-elliptics on the front of my IIA, and the shackles and dumb irons are standard.