If I heat this and bend it so it's closer to the frame will it weaken it to the point that it will be unsafe? I'm not an engineer and have no idea what this would do to the steel. I need more clearnace between the pitman and spring.


The pics in my second post. Webshots
must not allow linking any more.

at least ya asked before ya did it... No, it's not safe. Get a new one.

Agree with Lance. People do it...but when it breaks your goin for Mr. Toads Wild Ride.

Nope, it will weakin it a lot!
Did you check out the Ott Industries arm?? Its a lot straiter.

I had the same problem but since I was using large tie rod ends I was able to taper drill it from the top to increase my clearance..

Don't know if this will help ya but here is a pic:

Can anyone tell him why he can't heat it up, or is it just a bad vibe? :confused:

It is possible to do what you need to do, but I wouldn't recommend it if you have to ask first. You can also cut and reweld them and not have to worry about them. Again, if you don't know about these things then you should purchase one--it will be safer. :smokin:

Originally posted by Twisted Axle JB
Can anyone tell him why he can't heat it up, or is it just a bad vibe? :confused:
The heat changes the structural integrety of the metal, it also changes the actual distance the rod end is from the steering box.

It is possible to do what you need to do, but I wouldn't recommend it if you have to ask first. You can also cut and reweld them and not have to worry about them. Again, if you don't know about these things then you should purchase one--it will be safer. :smokin:

It is possible to heat, bend, cut, weld, anything that is made of metal.
The question should be, "Is it safe?" When a pitman arm is bent, welded, heated, etc., it no longer is safe. The strength is not there. How much is the lives of others worth? If you would drive a rig w/ a bent, heated, welded steering arm, please let us know where you are located & the times that youare going to drive the rig we can STAY THE F*CK AWAY!

By Jeepin IAN..
QUOTE]The question should be, "Is it safe?" When a pitman arm is bent, welded, heated, etc., it no longer is safe. The strength is not there. How much is the lives of others worth? If you would drive a rig w/ a bent, heated, welded steering arm, please let us know where you are located & the times that youare going to drive the rig we can STAY THE F*CK AWAY! [/QUOTE]

Sorry to bitch, but I hate it when people say stuff like that. Especially on a board that is here only to discuss a sport that almost demands making your vehicle unsafe!

I gaurantee you that a sketchy steering arm is only marginally as safe as putting 44 boggers on a truck with a little brake upgrade. I have 35s and I know for a fact that they dont stop within 10 feet of the braking that my Tacoma does. 10 feet would fail the HELL out of a brake test by a manufacturer.

Anyway, what I am trying to say is that all this shit that we do to our trucks makes them more unsafe and less reliable. So dont go actin all high and mighty like your the safety inspector or somehting.

Originally posted by JeepinIan
The question should be, "Is it safe?" When a pitman arm is bent, welded, heated, etc., it no longer is safe.

This is 100% an assumption you CANNOT MAKE without knowing how the metal was worked!

I too hate generalizations like this :mad3:

If done properly, strength is not an issue - be it a pitman arm, a steering arm, or whatever else.


I just wish people would stop making generalizations like this :rolleyes:

Originally posted by TyTy
By Jeepin IAN..
QUOTE]

Anyway, what I am trying to say is that all this $hit that we do to our trucks makes them more unsafe and less reliable. So dont go actin all high and mighty like your the safety inspector or somehting.

Hmmm... making my rig 20 inches wider and 16 inches taller, adding rear discs and one ton brakes with 3 times the braking force and increasing the size of the steering components along with adding a SBC with EFI sure goes a long way into making my rig "more unsafe and less reliable" :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Like any CJ was safe and reliable from the factory. :eek:

Kind of on/off topic here. I need to get my pitman arm off my Toyota, and for the life of me it will not budge!! I'm on my way to breaking a second puller as well. I asume that this arm has been on the truck since 86, and living it's whole life in the Midwest, it has been salted and rusted in there.

So if I throw the rosebud on the torch to heat it up and get it off that way, I might risk weakening it?

Any ideas here folks?

Originally posted by DRM


This is 100% an assumption you CANNOT MAKE without knowing how the metal was worked!

I too hate generalizations like this :mad3:

If done properly, strength is not an issue - be it a pitman arm, a steering arm, or whatever else.


I just wish people would stop making generalizations like this :rolleyes:

Thank you,
This guy is correct and everybody else is wrong.
ericfilar@fatcity

Originally posted by Bones
Kind of on/off topic here. I need to get my pitman arm off my Toyota, and for the life of me it will not budge!! I'm on my way to breaking a second puller as well. I asume that this arm has been on the truck since 86, and living it's whole life in the Midwest, it has been salted and rusted in there.

So if I throw the rosebud on the torch to heat it up and get it off that way, I might risk weakening it?

Any ideas here folks?
If you heat it replace the seals,
when you put the puller on, get it sung, and Wack the bolt end of the puller a few tims with a big ass hammer, should come off then

DRM is correct.

TyTy, whatever dude.

OH, SURE DRM IS ALWAYS RIGHT, WHATEVER MAN :flipoff2: :flipoff2: ;) :D :beer: :beer:

BTW - my comments were not directed at the original post, or exactly what he wants to do - since all I see are a little red X and I have no clue exactly what he intends to heat and bend :(

But, judging by the fact that he admits he has no clue either, I would have to say more than likely HE would not be confident that he could do this properly and have it remain safe. That being the case - either make sure whoever you have modify the pitman arm DOES know what they are doing, or do as others here suggest and buy the proper pre-fabricated part to fix your problem.

And you people better stop agreeing with me, don't you know it will get you in trouble? ;) :p :D

Most pitman arms are cast steel if you heat it up and bend it the metal on the outside part of the bend is loaded in tension, with cast steel this is bad regardless of what temperature it is at. It is likely that small cracks will form when you bend it maybe below the surface. If it happened to be forged the risk would be much less. You can make a guess at wether it is cast or forged by looking at the parting line but this is only a guess. Don't quench it after you heat it up whatever you do. The safest thing is to cool it as slowly as possible when you don't know the alloy. If it was originally heat treated you weaken it by doing this but it is not likely that a american pitman arm was heat treated from the factory.

If I needed a Pitman am that was not available from the junkyard I would make one by cutting what I needed out of mild steel plate, and welding a square containing the spline section of a stock pitman arm into a square hole in the new arm. then I would add some thinner plates to the top and bottom over the welded on piece so that I wasn't relying on welds to an unknown material to hold the steering together. The welds between the stock pitman arm piece and the new arm only need to be there to maintain a tight fit.

I probably wouldn't heat and bend a pittman arm, but I have no problem with cutting and rewelding steering parts, as long as proper procedures are followed. The pittman arm on my rig has been cut and rewelded.(a steel forging) It is gusseted and welded properly. I am sure it is stronger at the joint than the stock arm. It is one of those deals that if you have to ask, don't do it....

Most pitman arms I've seen are cast. When I was a teenager I heated and bent a pitman arm for my Samurai. It broke on the Rubicon. But I guess Im wrong, and it's perfectly ok to heat and bend them. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Originally posted by Bones
Kind of on/off topic here. I need to get my pitman arm off my Toyota, and for the life of me it will not budge!! I'm on my way to breaking a second puller as well. I asume that this arm has been on the truck since 86, and living it's whole life in the Midwest, it has been salted and rusted in there.


I broke a puller the same way by thinking it would just pull it off ... :rolleyes: ... how nieve was i ?? .... but what i did on the 2nd puller was tighten the puller up good and snug then whack the bolt on the end of pitman with a hammer/big brass drift and kaBAM it let go, scared the crap outta me ... hope this helps.

- jack

Looks like DRM an Gordon have some knowledge of metalurgy. Some of you other guys are acting a little foolish. Metalurgy is a science and few people understand the physical properties of metal, and posses the skills to manipulate them. So, if some of your backyard escpades have proven unworthy in the past don't be so absolute to rule out the possibilities. And again, if you have to ask if it can be done look for an aftermarket part... It will be safer. :emb:

Oh yeah, the guy from Florida that was bagging on me earlier... You don't have to worry about me wheelin' in Florida, my paint isn't shiney enough to drive around in that state! ;)

Originally posted by Twisted Axle JB
Looks like DRM an Gordon have some knowledge of metalurgy.

Not even enough to be dangerous actually :p

But I do know that there is a difference in "doing something" and "doing something right" :)

Originally posted by DRM
BTW - my comments were not directed at the original post, or exactly what he wants to do - since all I see are a little red X and I have no clue exactly what he intends to heat and bend :(

But, judging by the fact that he admits he has no clue either, I would have to say more than likely HE would not be confident that he could do this properly and have it remain safe. That being the case - either make sure whoever you have modify the pitman arm DOES know what they are doing, or do as others here suggest and buy the proper pre-fabricated part to fix your problem.

And you people better stop agreeing with me, don't you know it will get you in trouble? ;) :p :D

I reluctantly agree, I still think you're full of shit most of the time, but all I saw was a red X also
ericfilar@fatcity

It's easy, Just keep the following diagram in mind

I asked the question to find out if it is safe because I assumed it wasn't. Obviously this would be the fastest and cheapest solution, but I am not about to compromise my and others safety to gain some stuff. But had I to check. If this pic comes across you'll see that my spring can only come up about 4" before it hits the pitman. I could gain anothe 4" or so of stuff if the arm was closer to the frame. I think my only solution is to have a custom arm built, or just live with it. Any suggestions on who could build an arm like this for me?

just move your steering box forward or get a shorter pitman arm.

Originally posted by bkcruiser
just move your steering box forward or get a shorter pitman arm.

The box is already 3" from the front of the frame. I've moved it once and don't want to move it again. Were can I get a shorter arm?

I wouldn't shorten the pitman arm. I've done this before (that's why I know you can work the pitman arm and still keep it safe). It will shorten the throw on your steering box which is matched to the throw on your axle. The distance between the pivot point and the center of the sector shaft should be the same as the distance between the tie rod mount and the mounting point on your steering knuckles. In short, cutting your pitman arm will increase the amount of turns it will take to go from lock to lock on your steering. The odds are your steering box will run out of throw before you hit the steering stops. And your steering will be sloppy. The best thing to do is move your steering box forward or redrill your centering pin mounts on your axle and sping plates(move your axle back).

Originally posted by Twisted Axle JB
The best thing to do is move your steering box forward or redrill your centering pin mounts on your axle and sping plates(move your axle back).

Good points on shortening the arm. Damn, all I need is straighter piman arm, OTTs is not that much better. If I move the axle back I'll have to tub the well for tire clearance, and from what I've seen I want to put that of till I go to 38s.

ha, you clowns just like to argue hey:jester:

The answer is pretty obviously no. Not because it's not possible, but certainly the fella asking can't do it, or he wouldn't have to ask, and I would also venture that he can't "have someone who knows what they're doing" do it, because he also lacks the knowledge to ascertain whether the person doing the work actually knows how to do it.

In fact, given common materials and methods, i would venture that it would probably be unfeasable, if only from a financial point of view, to track down and have someone who really knows what they're doing do it. Even if you find them, the time and effort are very likely not worth it.

So yea, you can be a smartass and say "sure, anythings possible" but clearly it was a practical question, and clearly the answer is no, as it is for 99.99% of the population. In fact, anyone with the know-how would very likely also have the tools and knowledge to fabricate something better rather than "heating and bending" an old one.

So, the answer "no" is a generalization, sure.....but it's one that holds true for virtually all cases.

I'll reserve all comments...

Here's a solution though, by the pic posted it looks like a stock waggy arm would hook you up. If that's to long, look at a stock CJ (76-86) both are relatively flat compared to the arm you are using.

lol :p

I have made several custom welded Toyota IFS pitman arms - none have failed yet, and I do not expect a single one of them to do so either.

My suggestion - make a boxed type arm similar to the one All Pro sells for use with rod ends, but instead, use some 3/4" plate on the end and drill and taper that for the tie rod end you plan to use.

Here is arm like what your looking for. It was cut , and ground to a 45 or so included angle with a 1/16 open root, and then welded using only TIG. This took a Loooong time since an interpass temperature of 350deg was adhered to. Also there would have been in excess of 20 passes on it as well. Finishing is also important taking the weld back down to flush , and keeping it smooth why?- well the weld WILL be stronger than the arm gauranteed so not to create a stress riser (in this case more of the stronger weld matel meeting the weaker base metal) at the junction of the weld & arm you must bring it down ,and make it smoooth! The goal is in case of failure it will bend not fracture so we dont want it to be super duper strong then much weaker at the pitaman arm material.
If this doesnt make sence it could be me as I've got my two kids dickin' around making it difficult to write!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
weldpro
oh BTW thats a toy IFS spline but a Chev truck end.

Oh I forgot to mention that I think-

HEATING & BENDING A PITMAN ARM IS WAAAAYYYY:rainbow:

No details but it's gay trust me. It can work but its still:rainbow:

Weld it or replace it.

weldpro

Here is arm like what your looking for. It was cut , and ground to a 45 or so included angle with a 1/16 open root, and then welded using only TIG. This took a Loooong time since an interpass temperature of 350deg was adhered to. Also there would have been in excess of 20 passes on it as well. Finishing is also important taking the weld back down to flush , and keeping it smooth why?- well the weld WILL be stronger than the arm gauranteed so not to create a stress riser

I sounded a bit grumpier tha I meant....damn patch peeled off without me noticing!

But anyway - here's an example of a guy who knows...and I was trying to point out that having a guy like weldpro do it right, with his skills and equipment, and 20 passes with TIG etc....is very likely to cost a LOT more than buying a replacement...that's what i was really trying to say.

Bill
Nicoderm stage 3 and not gettin' any easier

Bill,
The Nicoderm- are you serious? If you are I hope you can follow through I just turned 30!!! never thought I'd still :smokin: but I do - need to quit someday soon- although I'm probably going to die of Asbestos from working on a old porsche that undercoating was all yup you guessed it ---however I did not know for about 3-4 mos into the project :( .

Back to the subject- As far as a price goes for doing something like that well it would be hard to know exactly what costs would be associated with doing it but (TIG eats gas & elec like a big block!) I would say your local shop would probably charge two hours TIG (usally a different price than normal) my guess would be that they would not care about interpass temp , and therefore be able to finish it quickly. Me well I could probably do it for about $100 ( the toy IFS would have to be cut & welded in two spots to take out the two bends) , and just keep working on something else for every 10min (or so)between passes.

That said you could just call allpro , and buy one like you need (I think!) , and be done with it. IMHO the only reason to visit a fab shop is for CUSTOM items only because they we will cost more than a production item would (usally).

He could send it to me , and I'll do it BUT his measurements better be PERFECT since I cant do it myself , and must include a signed document statting those measurements are correct.

Good luck Again (Bill)
weldpro

Thanks for the advice everyone. I got one today that should work for me. It looks totally solid. The welds don't look like TIG but they look strong.

Yea, I'm serious....second frickin' time too!

Started when I was about 15...smoked till I was 30. We got pregnant, and both quit right away...lasted 3 years...just drifted back to it this summer, started just when drinking...ended up every day, lasted 2-3 months, and guess what......we're preganant again!!!!

Ever see the Simpsons where Krusty has a patch on every sq, inch of his body?

Makes me laugh / cry!

Sorry for the grossly OT and embarasingly personal ramblings

I can run a bead better than this but, from the welding I've done I doubt this will fail.

Originally posted by BillaVista


Sorry for the grossly OT and embarasingly personal ramblings

No worries Bill, patch never worked for me either. One of these days I'll try gum again. That worked fine till I ran out of it one day and ended up bumming a smoke... and well.. you, Im sure, know the rest

Bill & Mike :D ha too funny! Like the krusty comment.

DENTED-------- I have a problem with that arm---there is NO WAY that that was done with an open root or even more than a pass or two.
Now my reason is simple- the last weld is narrow if it were done even close to what I would consider correct it would ATLEAST have to show parts of three passes all the way around. I can explain more if you need me to but I'm going back outside to work on my buggy!@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!
WELDPRO

OK, I noticed that is was done with only one pass too. Do you see a problem with laying a couple more beads around it? Should I preheat it or anything special?

When I grow up I want a buggy:flipoff2:

Another classic.....from Friends, when Chandler lit up after having quit, takes a deep drag, then looks at the cigarette and says....."Oh Dark Mother...."

Tried gum, .....until one of the dogs found 3/4 of a pack, ate it and went BEZERK....poor dog didn't know you're supposed to bite bite STOP :eek:

Sorry for hijacking the thread!

Originally posted by Dented
I can run a bead better than this but, from the welding I've done I doubt this will fail.


I'd Vee that out and get a big bite of weld on each side of the Vee, add a couple gussets, and throw a spare it the toolbox.

Looks to me that a stock EB pitman arm would easily solve your problem. The GM TRE fits it perfect, and the splined end fits most Ford and GM sector shafts. I could measure it, and send a pic if anyone is interested.

Let me know,