A friend of mine recently bought a Series (Ex-Mod I think) with the 2.5 Diesel in it. He's never owned a Series before (and neither have I), so where's the best place for him to get technical and maintenance info for this engine (shop manuals, etc)?

POS cough POS cough

I would ask Tom Bache, he seemed to have great luck with N/A rover diesels

:)

The Green Bible has the 2.25 in it.

SIII book will have the 2.25 later one in it.

If it is a 109 it will have a 2.25 if he bought a 110 ex-mod it is illegal but in any case it is not much different than the 2.25, its still a POS

Greg, call me, I have what you need....

David

Greg, call me, I have what you need.... A 300TDI!

You don't need any maintenance info on that engine, it will run far after you decide you can't live with it any longer and swap it out!

To all you Land Rover NA Diesel haters :flipoff2:

Red90 has a website with a lot of tech info on the 2.25 and 2.5 injector pumps and other stuff, and he owns a 2.5D 90. I have lost the link so I will wait for him to post up.

I have a 2.25 D in my 109 and it is a really strong engine and great offroad. I can do 60+ mph (without OD) on the highway (70+ when I had an OD), everywhere except up hills (when it gets a bit asthmatic).

The 2.5 is very similar to the 2.25 except it has a timing belt instead of a chain, and a different injector pump (timing belt driven instead of cam shaft driven). So it is easy to pick the difference. The 2.25 has a CAV DPA injector pump and the 2.5 a CAV DPM. The injectors are CAV but I have forgotten the designation.

If it is a 2.5 (or late 2.25) it will have 5 main bearings, be very strong and will run forever. The most common source of failure I have seen is from incorrectly resurfaced heads that don't have the precombustion chambers re-peened.

The ony real servicing is changine the oil every 3000 miles and having the injectors serviced (new nozzles if required) every 60000miles. If the service history is unknown it is best to have the injectors tested as a bad one can melt a piston crown. If it is a 2.5D and you want a paper workshop manual you will have to buy the Ninety/One-ten workshop manual from the UK - or get a copy of the Rave CD. For the rest of the truck you will need the series green bible.

And for all the haters with gas engines - try and follow me through a water crossing :laughing:

Thanks guys. I'll forward all of this info to my friend. I'm sure he will appreciate it. :beer:

Hmmm....

Just try and drive that NA diesel over a 12000 ft mountain pass in Colorado and you would be SCREAMING for a turbo. I have a NA 3.0 liter in the BJ42 and it can run 80 on flat freeway, if you put a hill in the way you are looking at slowing down to the 50's or so. At my elevation the 3.0 is a real dog going uphill (7000 ft). Now the 110 with the 300 Tdi is a friggin Rocket. It was easily the fastest truck in the stable til recently (got a new 04.5' CTD 600 (thats 600 lb/ft of torque)). Even with 38" tires and tons of rotating weight. A bit of fueling and boost (max is around 18 psi) makes some difference.

Anyway, the commitment to drive a NA diesel at anything but sea level is a large one. I just get in the "slow and steady" mode when driving mine.

Billster

To all you Land Rover NA Diesel haters :flipoff2:

Red90 has a website with a lot of tech info on the 2.25 and 2.5 injector pumps and other stuff, and he owns a 2.5D 90. I have lost the link so I will wait for him to post up.

I have a 2.25 D in my 109 and it is a really strong engine and great offroad. I can do 60+ mph (without OD) on the highway (70+ when I had an OD), everywhere except up hills (when it gets a bit asthmatic).

The 2.5 is very similar to the 2.25 except it has a timing belt instead of a chain, and a different injector pump (timing belt driven instead of cam shaft driven). So it is easy to pick the difference. The 2.25 has a CAV DPA injector pump and the 2.5 a CAV DPM. The injectors are CAV but I have forgotten the designation.

If it is a 2.5 (or late 2.25) it will have 5 main bearings, be very strong and will run forever. The most common source of failure I have seen is from incorrectly resurfaced heads that don't have the precombustion chambers re-peened.

The ony real servicing is changine the oil every 3000 miles and having the injectors serviced (new nozzles if required) every 60000miles. If the service history is unknown it is best to have the injectors tested as a bad one can melt a piston crown. If it is a 2.5D and you want a paper workshop manual you will have to buy the Ninety/One-ten workshop manual from the UK - or get a copy of the Rave CD. For the rest of the truck you will need the series green bible.

And for all the haters with gas engines - try and follow me through a water crossing :laughing:

Hmmm....

Just try and drive that NA diesel over a 12000 ft mountain pass in Colorado and you would be SCREAMING for a turbo. I have a NA 3.0 liter in the BJ42 and it can run 80 on flat freeway, if you put a hill in the way you are looking at slowing down to the 50's or so. At my elevation the 3.0 is a real dog going uphill (7000 ft). Now the 110 with the 300 Tdi is a friggin Rocket. It was easily the fastest truck in the stable til recently (got a new 04.5' CTD 600 (thats 600 lb/ft of torque)). Even with 38" tires and tons of rotating weight. A bit of fueling and boost (max is around 18 psi) makes some difference.

Anyway, the commitment to drive a NA diesel at anything but sea level is a large one. I just get in the "slow and steady" mode when driving mine.

Billster

Yes, granted, the performance of just about all NA diesels is crap on hills, I never disputed that, but a 2.25/2.5D has comparable performance to a 2.25/2.5P. If you drive a lot of road miles a Tdi (or even better an ISUZU 4BD1T) is a much better, quicker engine.

Got any pics of the CTD engine? sounds nice. Eventually I want to squeeze an ISUZU 4HE1-XS into one of my trucks 4.8L 4cyl (turbo/intercooled) and 173BhP 338lb/ft.

My dilema is that I can legally import a LHD 110 into Canada from the mid 80's with the 2.5L thought ideally I'd love a 300tdi but it's not possible unless I get it swapped in (is it a bolt-in swap?). I'd also need a 5 speed but it eems like some of the 80's 110s with 2.5Ds had 5 speeds? I also want part time 4WD not FT 4WD.

I have also done some messing around with turbos on NA diesels and it usually works pretty well if you are smart about it. So I was thinking is I would turbo the 2.5D, still have a mild slug, and save up for a 300tdi (or maybe even a 4BD-1T). Good plan? I live at 8000 ft and would like a rocketship that can haul ass on the highway.

Thoughts?

I have also done some messing around with turbos on NA diesels and it usually works pretty well if you are smart about it. So I was thinking is I would turbo the 2.5D, still have a mild slug, and save up for a 300tdi (or maybe even a 4BD-1T). Good plan? I live at 8000 ft and would like a rocketship that can haul ass on the highway.

Thoughts?

Turbo 2.5D = Boom

Go for a real diesel.

CTD.

I hear you and I love my Cummins now. But with 5 main bearings I don't think a 2.5 would :nuke: with a mild (6-10 psi) turbo... Has anyone every messed around with this idea?

I hear you and I love my Cummins now. But with 5 main bearings I don't think a 2.5 would :nuke: with a mild (6-10 psi) turbo... Has anyone every messed around with this idea?

Yes, it's called a diesel turbo, factory available Land-Rover engine in earlyish 90s and 110s. Small turbo with light boost, RAGING POS, one of the worst engines if not the worst. Even the diehard purists recognize that it's a miserable piece of junk.

Stay the hell away from anything under a 200TDI, and even there with the fairly high cost I would be more inclined to be swapping in a 13BT or a 12HT, or a turbo 3B etc.

I would not associate anything Land-Rover diesel with the word rocketship unless it's a 300TDI that's been juiced. Other than that they are small engines that aren't designed for US or canadian conditions. The exception is the 4BD1 in the Oz spec 109/110. Datsa fine truck.

If I were you I'd put a 6BT in an FJ60... That's what I wanna do next, after I finish the Series One.

yes, the fact that it is 5MB lends it to modification well, and the entire engine is stout enough to take the boost EXCEPT for the achilles hell of cast aluminum pistions. the same goes for the 2.25 and 2.5 gas motors... they are tough as hell but the pistons cant take the heat or higher combustion pressures involved with turbocharging.

IF you can find a stouter piston that will interchange, i have no doubts that you could easily build a 2.5D to 150hp+.

the later Tdi series of motors suffers from a similar problem, related to both the pistons and the head. although the later pistons are significantly better in design and strength, you can only run so hot of an EGT before you start damaging aluminum heads and pistons.

From what I understand 5 MB engine is not stronger than a 3 MB..they went to 5 MB because of the cheap ass block casting to save overall engine costs.

Flame suit on.

David

I have the 2.5NA in my 110 and I have done a lot of searching on how to get more power. I wouldn't turbo it, everyone seems to agree that the engine can't take it and it's not cost effective. The 2.5TD used different parts in the same block but unless you add an intercooler to it there are reliability problems with the heads. Another suggestion I was given was to add a LPG fumigation system but without a turbo I don't know how much benefit you'd get.

All of the 90 and 110's run a five speed box and the LT230 transfer case so if you want a part time 4wd you will have to swap in some other transfer case or convert the LT230 (I've heard of kits for this).

The 300TDI is not a direct bolt in for the 2.5NA, but the 200TDI out of a Defender is.

I have had the 2.5 N.A. military D-90 and I swapped it out for a 300 TDi. The only thing that did not bolt in was the engine mounts. Listen, you can try desperately to convince yourself that the 2.5 is not a huge POS, or that you can somehow get more power out of it, but it is and you can't. The only thing the 2.5 N.A. does well is blow embarassing amounts of black smoke and overheat.

with the 2.5L thought ideally I'd love a 300tdi
I also want part time 4WD not FT 4WD.
Thoughts?

Do you really want a 110? ;-)
As has already been mentioned the 2,5NA's head can not stand the temperatures of a turbo (not the 2,5 DT either ;-) )
A 200 is a pretty straight forward swap, use exhaust from 2,5 DT instead of 200TDi.
A 300 is a bit more work, as mentioned but not at all complicated. A disco 300 seems to fit as well, but perhaps with a bit more panel work (BFH?)

Are you shure about the "not full time" part, have you tried it?

T

Don't ask me how I found this and missed it to begin with. Technical information is in the factory manual. Available at this link http://www.landrover.ee/est/varia/downloads/cars.htm

Yes, I have one. It is OK. Best at low altititude, but will do 110 kmh at my altitude of 4000 feet and works fine around here (up to 7000 feet). You won't be able to push bigger tires off road, but I have not run out of power with 32s. It is, however at the limit in deep mud and deep snow.

As to the above "smoke", it shouldn't smoke if adjusted correctly, which is simple enough to do. And the "overheat" I can not quite understand. The rad is hugely oversized for the engine. You would have to have a seriously buggered cooling system to overheat one, IME.

Always starts, always runs.

Look, the locals even stalk me... :flipoff2:
http://www.fourwheelstampeders.ca/albums/2004-Christmas-Cruise/toy_run013.sized.jpg

No, no, and yep, wait sorry, I mean no. The ex mods all smoke, if they don't you are not getting full benefit of the 86 bhp. :shaking: And I had 32's also and I could not go up a hill faster than 45 mph. Sand and mud was a joke. Man, I hated that thing. I used to get behind the biggest 18 wheeler I could and act pissed off so nobody would think I was the one slowing everybody down. Don't get me wronge, these engines have thier place, a generator maybe, no, nevermind, they have no place.


Don't ask me how I found this and missed it to begin with. Technical information is in the factory manual. Available at this link http://www.landrover.ee/est/varia/downloads/cars.htm

Yes, I have one. It is OK. Best at low altititude, but will do 110 kmh at my altitude of 4000 feet and works fine around here (up to 7000 feet). You won't be able to push bigger tires off road, but I have not run out of power with 32s. It is, however at the limit in deep mud and deep snow.

As to the above "smoke", it shouldn't smoke if adjusted correctly, which is simple enough to do. And the "overheat" I can not quite understand. The rad is hugely oversized for the engine. You would have to have a seriously buggered cooling system to overheat one, IME.

Always starts, always runs.

Look, the locals even stalk me... :flipoff2:
http://www.fourwheelstampeders.ca/albums/2004-Christmas-Cruise/toy_run013.sized.jpg

86BHP, your dreaming out of a 2.5NA. Try 69BHP, 86 was the 2.5 TD.

86BHP, your dreaming out of a 2.5NA. Try 69BHP, 86 was the 2.5 TD.

righto, I'm dyslexic

I hear you and I love my Cummins now. But with 5 main bearings I don't think a 2.5 would :nuke: with a mild (6-10 psi) turbo... Has anyone every messed around with this idea?

If you are serious about turbocharging a 2.5NA have a chat with Richard Turner (turner engineering in the UK), who had a 2.5/2.25NA hybrid engine that he fitted a turbo to. I think 6-10psi may be a bit too high though - didn't the 2.5NA engines have 23:1 compression like the 2.25's?