i know i'm a cheap skate but i got 4 vw rabbit rear coils and 2 pro-comp es 3000 15" travel shocks for my buggy thing. they are the perfect spring rate but i want to stack 2 coils on each shock. any ideas on how best to mount em? ie how to tie the together and how to affix them to the shock. i want to mount the whole thing to the buggy using the shock ends only so the whole thing can move like the shock does. any ideas would be greatly appreciated. or pics would be better.

thanks, guys

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

stay the FAWK away from me with a setup like that!!!

:nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

i'll be way at the top of the hill. that should be far enough away from you.

please constructive replies only. geeeeeees. the only thing different is my shocks are not set up for the coil mounts. not that big of a deal. and it's trail only, so i won't be on the highway anyhow.

sheesh newbie, i am being constructive. i am telling you that you will :nuke: up with that setup.

if this were the way to do it dont you think that everyone would? there is no way that this would be safe or stable at all.

look at a true coilover shock next to yours and you will see what i am talking about. it is not just a normal shock with some coil mounts added on to it at all. but hey, what do i know, go kill youself by almost getting to the top of that hill, then your shocks will break and i will be laughing at you, as i drive up in my simple, sprung over rig.

get outta here. you wont get any support for ideas like that around these parts.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

oh yeah i forgot to mention. the only thing that you might break before the shocks are your...
































WELDED K5 BLAZER AXLES :rolleyes:

dont you know what a dana 60 is?

or maybe you have a fetish for C clips and trail breakage :confused:

i am a newbie to this board but,not in general. just trying something new. and if it don't work i'll do quarter elliptic or something. but i hope you're attitude doesn't reflect the whole board. every time i sit around with my 4x4 buds someone is always askin " hey i wonder if this would work"? well ther is only one way to find out. and my buggy only weighs 1800 lbs and only 800 of which is on the rear where i will be putting these. i've already tried this with 1 coil and it seemed to work great. so 2 coils should give me twice the compression and twice the extension with the same spring rate. so please don't attempt to come off as the know all be all guru of all that is 4 wheel drive cause you're not. in the future, a simple i don't think it'll work will suffice. maybe others feel differently about it than you. that's why i posted. i will be doing this anyways just brainstorming for the best possible mounting, hopefully with the help of others.

dude don't be so harsh! :rolleyes:

But he is right the chock bodies aren't stong enough to handle the coils mounted right to them. Why do you want to mount them over the shock anyways? Just mount them beside the shock. Staking them could be a problem though. you may have a hard time keeping them together in the center.

If you look at a proper coil over shock the coil spring ends are alot different than a traditional coil spring.

As for the welded blazer axles. Why not? Its a samurai for christs sake! They will be adequate anyways!:D

i am trying to save you some aggrivation by telling you to get the fawk out of here. if you dont like what i have to say about it, then you sure as hell wont like what everyone else has to say about it.

this is the land of Dana 60s and real coilovers, bud. not shitty homemade ones and welded 10 bolt axles.

get a real rig, and think about things before you post them. then you might get more respect around here.

:rolleyes:

good point, i know the shock bodies won't handle the mounts for the springs. i was thinkin of a coil bucket that slips over each end of the shock that uses the same shock bolt to mount to and then mount that bolt in rubber bushings to relive stress on the bolt. does that make sense???? i hope. and i can't mount em next to the shock because the spring will deflect in the middle to much. i'd have to put some sort of telescoping alignment bar down the middle of em. which is also an alternative. thanks for the input.

Originally posted by MeenGreen63
i am trying to save you some aggrivation by telling you to get the fawk out of here. if you dont like what i have to say about it, then you sure as hell wont like what everyone else has to say about it.

this is the land of Dana 60s and real coilovers, bud. not shitty homemade ones and welded 10 bolt axles.

get a real rig, and think about things before you post them. then you might get more respect around here.

:rolleyes:

Mean, let me start by saying your an Asshole!!

Now shut your trap, when you spout your month off like that, your the type person that I don't want to see around here. As far as a real rig, I have my own opinions of a Heep.

Try offering constructive advice not destructive opinions.

Sammy, agree with Chet I don't think the shock bodies will hold up that type of abuse. Look around at some of the rigs that are using coils and how they are mounted.

Joe

thanx, jd

Weird, I was thinking of doing the same thing.

BTW, Bilstein 6100 14"ers are available with coilover body, I was given $125 ea. Camburg.com, shock only. Not too bad. Identical internals to the regular shock, threaded body, possibly beefed up ends.
You may want to do that (beef up ends) to your ES3000s, weld carefully, I take no responsibility for explosions:D

I'd just try to tack weld the springs together, low heat, wrap in wet rags. The last half-coil is "dead" anyway. The welds may break but I don't see the big catastrophe. Remember, long coils will twist and buckle against the shock.

Home Depot sells 2-2.5" pipe clamps that may work as spring mounts, clamped to the shock body. Some giant washer with a slot, tack-welded to the rod end may work.

What P/N ES3000 has 15" of travel? I may just swap out my 9012s.

Hey meen better check that registration # he has been here 6 months longer then you so it looks like you are the newbie to me. As far as this being land of dana 60 axles it is for some but not all. I have meet more people running stock axles and 44s then 60s from this board. But I guess I dont dont know crap and better leave cause I have an IFS ranger with a 7.5 rear axle.

Also As far as the shocks I have no idea if it will work but strength of the shock it self would be something to consider cause you asking the shock to do something it wasn't designed to do. I Say give it a try and if it works you can give us all a :flipoff2: when it does for not thinking it will.

Matt

Originally posted by MeenGreen63
i am trying to save you some aggrivation by telling you to get the fawk out of here. if you dont like what i have to say about it, then you sure as hell wont like what everyone else has to say about it.

this is the land of Dana 60s and real coilovers, bud. not shitty homemade ones and welded 10 bolt axles.

get a real rig, and think about things before you post them. then you might get more respect around here.

:rolleyes:

Joe hit this one already but. Read the post about there being no real tech here. And look at what the problem is. You have not given any reason that it technically would not work just opinions on how stupid of an Idea it is. If its so fawkin stupid than why do some Roadrace companies make coil conversions for non coil shocks??? What he wants to do does exist but not for his application. The wall thickness isnt thick enough on the shock tubing to not bend with a split in the spring (stacking 2 together). As for the dana 60 comment Not everyone can afford one like everyone cant afford to have an assasin or scorpion or WHAT-THE-FAWK-EVER! who really cares what axles they have besides bragging rights??? How do you know his aren't 900 spling full floating c-clip eliminated monsters?? They make conversion kits for that too :D So beofre you do start barking on a newbie put yourself in their position.

thanks, i'm thinkin along tha same lines. the es3000 i lost the part # but u can get em from 4 wheel parts wholesalers for only $32.95 each. just tell em u want the 15" travelers .they seem a bit stiff for my application but i'm gonna mount em inboard of the chassis to combat that a bit. besides, i'm gonna jump it often. so then they'l be great.
i'll probably beef the hell out of the ends on mine or do the slipover thing. so far i like that idea best.

actually ive been here longer than him but just not under this user name. do a search for "Ford Rover" and you'll see what i mean.

i still dont think it will work, so im telling him that it wont. whats so wrong about that? i thought you could actually have an honest opinion around here :rolleyes:

btw, yes i am an asshole. and i take pride in that. why should i have to conceal my emotions? im not a friggin woman. i say what i want to because its what i feel.

Originally posted by samazuki
i'm gonna jump it often.

:eek: :eek: :eek:

no you wont. i dont care how much you beef the ends they will break after one jump, almost guaranteed. why risk your rig and your life over saving some $? do it right, already.

a ford in a rover? that'll never fawkin work!!! ever hear that?

enough already, we know how u feel about it green. sad part is, i was gonna paint it green but now i'll have to exchange the paint so as to not be like you at all.

Originally posted by samazuki
a ford in a rover? that'll never fawkin work!!! ever hear that?

yes! and thats why i am going CHEVY.

Well.....I'm a guy who has Dana 60's/44's/Rockwells. I am also a "Newbie". If you only knew how many people told me that I couldn't put a 454 in a Toyota :rolleyes: guess what I did and it had over 800HP :eek: All I can say is look at the thickness of the shock body and think that it could "actually" work. Do like I do tinker with the idea and eventually you will find out something that works for you.....BUT make sure to keep it on the trail and not pose a "hazard" to others......Good luck......:beer: :D

big blocks are so cool. in anything.

how would a shock breaking risk his life? They have nothing to do with keeping the axle in line :rolleyes:

Backwoods engineering is the backbone of our sport just do it safe. I think mounting the coil buckets to the frame over the shock would work the best. I still don't see why you need to mount them that way.

I have long coils that fall out if I flex too much so to stop that we made some custom bumpstops that are in the middle of the coils using motorbike coils inside two pieces of pipe. If I had a digicam I would snapa photo! :D We call the dinks!

thanks chet, i wanna anchor the springs at both ends so i have controlled drop after unloaded spring length. we do a bunch of off camber stuff here and i figure the resisitence of the spring will be important. my single springs fell out of the bucket cause they needed to stretch another 5" . stacked springs will do that for me. and you are right, nothing catastrophic if i bust a shock anyways.it's tube frame, it'll just fall down on the tire. no big deal. just scary in the wrong situation i guess.

I was thinking maybe you could build spring hats for each end of the shock mount. Like the spring/shock setup on a newer Dodge (shock mounted inside coilspring). For keeping the spring ends together you could build something like a dual rate coilspring slider that will keep the springs centered on the shock and keep the springs together.

Originally posted by MeenGreen63
sheesh newbie, i am being constructive. i am telling you that you will :nuke: up with that setup.

if this were the way to do it dont you think that everyone would? there is no way that this would be safe or stable at all.

look at a true coilover shock next to yours and you will see what i am talking about. it is not just a normal shock with some coil mounts added on to it at all. but hey, what do i know, go kill youself by almost getting to the top of that hill, then your shocks will break and i will be laughing at you, as i drive up in my simple, sprung over rig.

get outta here. you wont get any support for ideas like that around these parts.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Hey Cock master, people like you are the real problem around here. why dont you try adding something constructive instead of just acting like a fuckin prick:flipoff:. Not everyone can afford 60s, and not everyone needs em. Last time i checked the owner of this board was running a D44 front end. you wanna try sayin Lance aint hardcore enough for his own board? This is the land of homebrew solutions and wheelers who actually wheel somewhere other than the mall parking lot. Just cause it aint what you run doesn't make you the shit. Now take your shit and peddle it elsewhere, we dont need trash like you around here :mad3::flipoff::mad3:. This is a tech board, a place to ask questions like "will this work". I dont think this setup will work the way hes thinkin but with some minor changes in design i think it could work well.

Dallas

http://www.ssimicro.com/~warbler/temp/Doublespring.jpg

Is that constructive enough for you? :flipoff2:

...Use tube and run one inside the other. Fire up a double-sided 'cup' on a lathe that'll run outside the outer sleeve. Taper into that, so that if the spacer slips below the outer tube, it'll run back up without too much difficulty. Bolt the shock in the center. Or run the shock outside. I don't care. :D

o k we all agree mean green is a ignorant asshole. i have dana 60s, 44s, rockwells and lc axles. guess which one gets put in the next rig. the land cruisers, why because i have them for a zook and they will hold up fine. as light as his rig is going to be he would have a hard time breaking 1/2 ton rated axles. just keep working on your idea and blow off the dumbass remarks. i am sure you will get it figured out. talk to you later mike

the es3000 i lost the part # but u can get em from 4 wheel parts wholesalers for only $32.95 each. just tell em u want the 15" travelers

This is kinda funny, I've called two places and they say "ya we got 'em" but they have to go measure 'em to get compressed and extended length, and travel turns out to be 14":p

Oh well, I'll keep trying.

thankx, mike and that drawing is real nice and i may have to do that without the shock in the middle. however, my shock is 2" or so and the coil springs are 2 3/4 id. so there is not enough room for the tie together piece and the shock. are there any draw backs to welding the springs together? i tack welded 1 in there just to see how far it would extend and the tacks didn't come loose. so it would seem i could weld the 2 springs together. even if it broke they still can't go anywhere. maybe just get tangled a bit until i re-fix em. the 2 springs together are about 25" long unsprung so it shouldn't limit travel if a few of the coils cant move properly becaause of the welding. am i right or wrong ? i'd like to get em in there as safe as possible. if i do get em workin, it'll be a cheap alternative or some. $32 for the shock and $25 each for the springs.

es 3000 advertised 15". i'm getting 14 1/2" outta mine.

you don't have a stupid idea at all if people would look to other types of automotive performance they would see that street rodders have been doing what you want for years go to competition engineering or chris alston chissis they have brakets just for what you want you just need to verify shock body diameter to make sure they will fit over youur shocks and as far as mating to springs together that is std on all coil overs they use a stack cup readily available

if we were all as narrow minded as some we probably wouldn't be talking about reverse cut housings,wagoneer springs on toy 4x4, re-geared transfercases etc. its inovative thinking that has this sport on the cutting edge 24/7which is what makes it so fun always new ideas hell if there were never any new ideas we wouldn't have anything to talk about would we

Originally posted by duane85runr/72fj40
you don't have a stupid idea at all if people would look to other types of automotive performance they would see that street rodders have been doing what you want for years go to competition engineering or chris alston chissis they have brakets just for what you want you just need to verify shock body diameter to make sure they will fit over youur shocks and as far as mating to springs together that is std on all coil overs they use a stack cup readily available

I was reading along thinking the same thing,

ya, what duane85runr/72fj40 said! That would work pretty damn good.

If a single coil is the spring rate that you want then two coils stacked on top of each other will be half of the spring rate that you want. for example if you want a 200 lb/in spring rate then each of those coils would deflect 1 inch under that 200 lbs. Stack them on top of each other and the assembly would deflect 2 inches, meaning 100 lb/in spring rate. If you want to use junkyard coils Ford Aerostar rear coils can get you at least as much travel as you can use with a 15" travel shock. You could mount them however you want but I would suggest a conventional mountingwith the shockes mounted outside the coils. Check out AFCO or Coleman for dirt cheap coil overs they sell up to 12" travel Monroes with coil over kits available for them. Still gonna cost way more than procomps and junkyard coils though. Also I don't think the rubber shock eyes are up to the spring forces with the setups described.

the brackets that duane85runr/72fj40 referred to take the load off off the shock eye and transfer it to the mounting bolt itself.

Gee and to think if we had left it up to Mean, this thread would have not gone anywhere. Mean we're waiting for your responses to those that are providing input, and offering ideas on how to make this work. Come awn man, we want to hear more from you :flipoff2:

Joe

...Something I think that's been missed...

...His sig says "rail"... and he's going to jump it. SO this ain't no crawler... Am I right?

...If that's the case, I think you really need to look at something more sturdy than what you're thinking, because you'll be giving it a good workout.

Most of the shit that comes outta this site is not designed for impact absorption as much as for maximum possible flex...

...Just an observation.

exactly coldnorth. that is why i said that it will :nuke:

and i still dont think it will hold up for very long. to support the entire weight of the truck on four small bolts? come awn. and how many broken shock mounts have you seen on the trail? ive seen my fair share.

let alone supporting the entire vehicle weight on a couple of small rubber bushings that were only designed to allow the shock to move troughout its travel. IMO those will split in half after the first jump.

once again, it is not a very solid setup for jumping. mount the coils vertically and the shocks angled like you see on any other coil spring setup. why insist on being unsafe for a few more inches of travel on something that should have a fair amount already? its not worth it.

go buy some aerostar coils and mount them separately from the shocks. i think you will be much happier in the end, if not for the peace of mind alone.

i found what i need at competition engineering as suggested. thanks. but i'm not gonna buy it, i'll send the pics to my buddy ppillard and have him draw em up in autocad and laser cut my own. by the way, they said there should be no problem handling the rail buggy even jumping. just use good bolts. and that many mudracers use em. hope they are right. keep the suggestions coming though, i really appreciate all the tech. hell, even green came up with a constructive response.,

Post a pic of this coilover kit that you found. I am iterested in seeing it.

Thanks,
Sean

Originally posted by samazuki
i found what i need at competition engineering as suggested. thanks. but i'm not gonna buy it, i'll send the pics to my buddy ppillard and have him draw em up in autocad and laser cut my own. by the way, they said there should be no problem handling the rail buggy even jumping. just use good bolts. and that many mudracers use em. hope they are right. keep the suggestions coming though, i really appreciate all the tech. hell, even green came up with a constructive response.,
Just remember what works in the mud might not work in the air and the rocks and vice versa.

My Brother (airzuki.......on the boards) had this setup on his truck Years and years ago....... it actually worked well,
he used a lift coil from a Jeep Cherokee application and had a pro-comp shock mounted inside it, the whole setup was pivoting on a single bushing at the axle end and was mounted individually at the frame...... here is a bad pic.http://bc4x4.com/fv/2000/ben/ben-8_.jpg

Don't stack two coils, just go to the junkyard and get a single coil that's long enough. The rear Ford Aerostars are being used on (someone's) toyota buildup, give those a try.

Mount the shock outside, it's less complex and works well. Leave coilover setups to the pro's with the $$

-John

I missed a few of the post so I don't know if this has been mentioned. You could pick some exhaust pipe scraps out of the dumpster at the muffler shop and use them as a sleeve to stiffen the shock body...I can't see any reason you can't creat a bucket that incorporates a beefier shock mount, You won't need any rubber bushings, just some beef.

If you are trying to create a better coilover than you can buy, forget it. But, if it's a personal challenge to build them...go for it

it is a quest to be different and to build a badass buggy for $3000 that i have to play with. cause several buddies told me i can't do it. thats just like a double dog dare. besides, i have a lot of budies on a budget and if i figure it out and work out the kinks, they have a new cheapo mod they can do. we don't have many rocks here but it's being built to twist A LOT!! the rear suspension did 5 feet but the springs were too short. it woulda done more but that's as high as my lift goes. but, if i see a place to jump it i will just to watch the dirtbike guys freek out.so it's gotta be strong. by the way, coilovers mount 1 bolt on each end, why can't i??? assuing i lose the rubber bushings. and please get me more pics of airzuki's rig or have him contact me. thanks


what started as a f----ked up thread worked out quite well.

Originally posted by samazuki
es 3000 advertised 15". i'm getting 14 1/2" outta mine.
I think those shocks have an internal bumpstop. maybe if you pull it real hard you can get 15" :D

Originally posted by MeenGreen63 i am trying to save you some aggrivation by telling you to get the fawk out of here. if you dont like what i have to say about it, then you sure as hell wont like what everyone else has to say about it. :rolleyes:The only thing aggrevating here is you! Go back and read this whole thread. Just make sure to bring some ketchup or something so you have something to disguise the taste of the BS you so readily spew. Before you tell someone to get out you should remember the flaming you got on this thread. Next time the door'll hit ya where the good Lord split ya!:laughing: :flipoff2: :laughing:

this is the land of Dana 60s and real coilovers, bud. not shitty homemade ones and welded 10 bolt axles."It's what you build, not what you buy!:p If you have found the tree from which money grows then kick down you little fawk! Some of us are onna budget. Sometimes we go through different stages of modification and a learning curve. The 10 bolt is some decent beef for a feather weight Zuki. We stuffed 44s under my buddies with 4 wheel discs. :eek:It took over a year to break the factory scuff off the damn rotors!!! That and it is also on leaf springs and flexes better than Arnold! :laughing:

get a real rig, and think about things before you post them. then you might get more respect around here.Its all too apparent who needs to think before he speaks. SHIAT! You were given two ears and one mouth. Translation ... think twice before speaking once!! Another thing you need to learn is you earn respect, you can't demand it. You tried, you lost. When you wake up next week hopefully you'll remember the moral of the story. As far as a real rig goes, I'm not gonna say nuthin about yours cuz I haven't heard squat about it. BUT... Don't diss when you have no clue and should really have a window in your belly so you can see where yer walking! Once upon a time I bagged hard on Zukis! ... until my buddy took me for my first real wheeling run. It has since gone through 2 makeovers and it really kicked a$$ the first time out.

So if all budget rigs suck I can't wait to see you on the trail ... behind me. :laughing:


-TIGGERZ4X-
_/_______\_
{O|||||||O}
[_]--O---[_]


HEY OSAMA! If you don't like the horns, DON'T wave the BIG RED flag at the bull !!! :nuke: :nuke: and :barf:kisses ... :usa: Land of the FREE and Home of the BRAVE !!! :usa:

it's funny how fast "wheeler" status goes some people's heads.... :flipoff: go back to JU meen.

Why be so worried about the bolts? Alot of em have about a 180,000 PSI tinsle strength, and I would like to see someone break them on a 1800 lb rig... Also< I like the idea.. and if you are gonna mount 2 coils together, why not get a piece of strong (.120 wall maybe?) tubing, about 4 or so " long, and slip it over the coils, maybe bend it alittle if needed.. i think that should support them fine, then just tack weld em... Honestly I like this idea alot.. I thought about it myself... my worry is the forces on the top and bottom plate from moving from side to side... I dont think sht shock mody could hold it.. so if you do the tubing thing, it should work, but let me throw an idea in there, what about making sure they are all greased up, and add a Zerk fitting to the 2 pieces of tubing.. it should help the binding some.. But I like that coil setup on Air zuki's rig.. I may just use that.. any more pics of it? I really am liking it..

Garrett

coil over shocks by 6x6 (http://usa6x6.com/Conversions/image.phtml?select=theshop&image=front_brakes.jpg)

This pic shows a larger and simpler version of what the buggy is thinking but it might help him

My buddy is running a set of production shocks (non coil over type) With an after market coil over adapter on them. They
have two Eibech springs on each shock with two different spring rate's' and it works awsome! I was skeptical at first but the
guy that built them said it would work and they do. He is also
a shock Engineer for a large aftermarket company (not just shocks) :flipoff2:

Thread may be stale, but one more idea:

A guy on a buggy site uses diesel truck shocks. Very stout (use 3/4" bolts!), cheap ($30-$70 he says), and lots of damping options.
They may be a good base for coilover conversion. Unfortunately,
12" travel is the max.

http://www.sandrail.com/shocks2.mv

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 9-Volt
[B]exactly coldnorth. that is why i said that it will :nuke:

and i still dont think it will hold up for very long. to support the entire weight of the truck on four small bolts? come awn. and how many broken shock mounts have you seen on the trail? ive seen my fair share.

let alone supporting the entire vehicle weight on a couple of small rubber bushings that were only designed to allow the shock to move troughout its travel. IMO those will split in half after the first jump.

_________
dude the shock DOES support the weight of a vehicle on bumps and jumps...DUMBASS

why don't you go back to the books dumbass..
I am sure this guy knows alittle more than you about making BEEF mounts if he is even thi8nking about this..

WHT DO YOU KNOW really?
really I have NEVER seen a fact posted from you...

sorry guys I know this ain't chat..

SAMMI GUY - have you thought about using some steel coil spacers (like "pucks" for a lift) and welding them together in a fasion that lets you get male ends on both sides??

then using them in thecenter of your springs..you could probably run them over your shocks OR stand alone that way...

also YES hte bilstein shocks come ready to mount coils so that is a option but a $$ one

how about like you said making a "shoe" that fits over the shock bodie and rest against custom shock mount that will "seat it" good??

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35052

thank you.