So how did everyone fair w/ payouts. I heard they where lower than usual.

So how did everyone fair w/ payouts. I heard they where lower than usual.



well nothing's ever going to compare to the 02 season :laughing:

How far down did they pay for the series?

Yes, the payouts were lower than expected. Tracy got shorted about $1500 and we got shorted $1000 compared to what a single event would pay. At the beginning of the season we asked what the championship would pay because of how we got screwed by Ranch and RRCA. Mark Patey told me that the series payout would be the same as a single event payout. When I confronted him about this after the event he says he never said that! But to me what's worse than the money issue is that they didn't have trophy's for the winners! I feel terrible for Tracy Jordan who worked so hard this year to win a championship and have nothing to show for it. The best part of winning the championship is standing up at the awards ceremony with that championship trophy held high above your head and your fellow competitors cheering in appreciation. UROC denied Tracy that moment he worked so hard for and I feel terrible for him. Shame on you UROC!

I can't figure out for the life of me why there were no trophies? That was far worse than the low payout in my mind. My 2002 Championship trophy means FAR more than all the other trophies I have put together! Congrats, Tracy!

Due to time constraints & technical issues, we had to cancel everyone's second pass at my last mud race. Thought I was gonna get lynched. Glad I've never shown up with less cash than promised! :eek:

TEX

Having no trophies sucked but for the Extreme Series they said there will be trophies at Supercrawl for the "Extreme Champion". I don't really know how all that will work out. There might be the possibility that the series trophies for the pro's will be handed out at SuperCrawl. Just guessing.....

As far as the Extreme Series payout, I think it was right on the mark. I remember our series fee being $250 and our event fee being $275. The payout was pretty consistent with the fee amounts. I would have to get a calculator out to determine it.

I just checked it and I will double check the event fee and split before I call it light.

Jon, I hope that UROC does not miss the opportunity at the Supercrawl to fix the trophy issue. "Better late than ever" is better than no trophy at all.

I thought about this a bit over lunch as far as the Extreme Series goes - We won the Extreme West Series and (unless I misunderstood something) got recognized as the winner at the last event.

Why do I have to go to SuperCrawl and compete again for the trophy?

I dont understand why UROC always seems to be making up for these mistakes only after people get pissed off. Is it that hard to figure out less pay and no trophies for the winners will piss people off :confused:

Mark said at the awards that they withheld some of the West and some of the East extreme series money to make a SuperCrawl West vs East battle for the rest of the money. While I think that sounds fun, I also don't think it is right to tell us that at the awards. It would not be the proper time and place to argue, so I kept quite. I think the bottom line is that it is sneeky. We were competing for a series, not a stand alone event at SuperCrawl. I felt that things were really getting better, but this lack of communications is not what we need right now. The series fee should have been from all competitors in the series, plus 10%. Does anyone have the number of competitors from each class so we can do some accounting?

Congrats to Tracy Jordan, Peter Mazzoni, and Brad Lovell on great seasons.

Thanks Jason! Congratulations to you too!

I am not going to do the math for everyone but here is what I have put together:

Extreme Series

31 Super Mods
18 Modifieds

We all paid $250 series entry fee

I understand / understood that the series paid out 110%

The only advertised pay schedule I have ever seen is:

Place % of Payout
1 39%
2 25%
3 15%
4 9%
5 7%
6 5%

I was so tired by the end of Friday that I snuck out before the awards were over for some much needed sleep. Maybe Mark said something at the end? I heard the east guys had only recieved half the prize money with the rest to put towards and East vs. West battle at Supercrawl. Some poeple got some heartburn over it and it was posted on the UROC board that they got paid in full.

I like the idea of an East vs. West competition concurrent with SuperCrawl but if we are using a percentage of the series payout to fund it, then the higher you place (at this point) the more money you contribute to the pot.

So did Mark say something publicly about an Extreme only purse at Supercrawl?

Yes, the payouts were lower than expected. Tracy got shorted about $1500 and we got shorted $1000 compared to what a single event would pay. At the beginning of the season we asked what the championship would pay because of how we got screwed by Ranch and RRCA. Mark Patey told me that the series payout would be the same as a single event payout. When I confronted him about this after the event he says he never said that! But to me what's worse than the money issue is that they didn't have trophy's for the winners! I feel terrible for Tracy Jordan who worked so hard this year to win a championship and have nothing to show for it. The best part of winning the championship is standing up at the awards ceremony with that championship trophy held high above your head and your fellow competitors cheering in appreciation. UROC denied Tracy that moment he worked so hard for and I feel terrible for him. Shame on you UROC!
I have a new found respect for you jon - I cannot beleive there were not trophies - what a crock - tracy is on the back of my new shirt as the winner - he deserves it and more! Jesse

I know Mark said something at the start of the Extreme West Series awards (Friday in St. George) but I was so tired that I couldn't follow everyting he said. I know he said something about Supercrawl and trophies but I think it was just for SuperCrawl trophies. I don't remember him saying anything about holding $$$ back for east vs. west. I can see how this would work for the Extreme Series but what about the payouts for the Pro's? I like the east vs. west idea but why should the series winners be the ones to fill the pot? If this is the case, can anyone confirm?

Congratulations to everyone, regardless of where you placed. The season is done!

The Kings of spin had an excuse lined up when everybody was tired and not willing to ruin a good mood at the "ceremony".
Jon I will back you up that Mark also told me " the series payout will be the same as the event payouts." My only question was if that meant the same amount exactly, or the same 110% of OUR series money. This was never answered. But it seems as though it is less than either of those would be.

As far as trophies I'm sitting next to the "red headed step child" that won the first West event as a spotter and has yet to recieve his trophy after repeated requests the last answered by Ranch over the weekend when asked if he had it... and I quote..." yes and no I brought it but we have to give it to the Pro guys because we didn't have enough made for the combined event." Last time it was a paint matching problem, no really that's what they said.

How about this take some rebar and make these guys some trophies!

Remember we are "all in the public eye so we need to act professionally" right before we cheat each other.

I heard the east guys had only recieved half the prize money with the rest to put towards and East vs. West battle at Supercrawl. Some poeple got some heartburn over it and it was posted on the UROC board that they got paid in full.


I never got the rest of mine??? I think it was posted that we were going to get it, but haven't yet.

Oh and I agree, the people that place higher end up paying more to the pot...

I never got the rest of mine??? I think it was posted that we were going to get it, but haven't yet.

Oh and I agree, the people that place higher end up paying more to the pot...

It was posted.... here's the link http://www.uroceast.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2472

I have not got the rest of mine either but I have been checking into it.

Anybody know what the Supercrawl pays?

Last year our UROC check for the supercrawl was $18700 plus we got about $7000 in contingency checks. I'd be willing to bet this years winner won't even get half of that. I'm going to call Ranch today and try to get him to commit to an amount for this years event.

Here is what I know:

1) As far as the Extreme Series trophies - UROC considers the Extreme Series a national series and wants only set of trophies for this. They are "looking into" division (East and West) trophies. I guess I was not totally clear on the structure of the Extreme Series. Like it or not, that is the way it is.

I really don't care a whole hell of a lot about the structure and format but it is something we should have known up front. Maybe they had one idea in thier head and did not comunicate it well enough. I don't know. I can not honestly think that they did not present trophies because of the cost.

EDIT: It is called the "BFGoodrich Fabtech Extreme Rock Crawling Nationals" so I guess it is a national series. Also, I remember near the begining on the season looking at what info there was for SuperCrawl and seeing "East meets West" blah blah blah.

2) It has been adevertised here: http://www.uroceast.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2471&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15 that the payout at SuperCrawl will be 100% and the entry fee is $550. I assume they will use the same split I posted above. If it all fills up (about 90 Super Mods and 45 Mods) first place would be $19,305 and $9,652 respsectively. Remember, I am just stating what I know.....

They are looking for money to build the courses, if you have $9000.00 then you get that course. I will be surprised if this actually goes off. Not to get off topic but it would be nice to know where your money is??? If they can't get the money to build the courses.

Andy

Before it gets brought up that other motorsports don't have the purses that we enjoy (ie;Desert racing) I'd also point out that in all the conversations I've had with desert racers and other types of racers I can't recall one that said they didn't get what was promissed. I don't see any reason UROC wouldn't be willing to open up the books and show that OUR entry money and their 10% was returned in full as payout.
My close experience with both sprint car racing and pro arena racing there were usually no enrty fees and payout was set by % of the gate or flat rate guarenteed purse.
All we can ask is that it doesn't get changed from what is promissed. Has that happened? Or happened again?

My close experience with both sprint car racing and pro arena racing there were usually no enrty fees and payout was set by % of the gate or flat rate guarenteed purse.


In mud racing, it typically plays out one of 3 ways:

% of entry fees (all the decent places are 100%).
% of entry fees plus a bonus (example: 100% entry fees plus $1,000).
Flat rate regardless of # of entries (usually the best $ unless there's just an absolute schitload of entries).

100% payback is typical of a small-time event, or a lower class at a mid-level event. Added money or a fixed "good" purse is expected of the upper classes at a mid-level event & all classes at a "pro" event.

And again, paying less than promised would be like sticking your neck in a noose & jumping off a bridge (not advisable, in other words ;)).

TEX

I talked to Ranch today and he said UROC doesn't pay 110% of entry's. He claims we gave that up in favor of guaranteed purses no matter how many showed up

I guess I missed that Jon........Did anyone ever hear that?

guaranteed purses no matter how many showed up


So, is that number publicized? If not, it should be ;)


TEX

I know that the purse is not set in stone in the west series because the pay outs are different each time. I got 423.00 for 6th in cali and I think it paid that amount to the mad guys for 5th this time. So I guess I'm confooozed on Ranch's reply.

I talked to Ranch today and he said UROC doesn't pay 110% of entry's. He claims we gave that up in favor of guaranteed purses no matter how many showed up

There seems to be some confusion betwen the Pro Series and the Extreme Series.

The Extreme Series paid out 110% of entry fees for event purse, and 110% of the series fees for the series purse.

The Pro Series had a guaranteed payout of $25,000 per event, no matter how many competitors there were. For instance, at the last event there were 46 competitors. If you were using the 110% payout math of the Extreme Series, your purse would have been $18,975, which is $375 x 46 teams x 1.1. Instead, the purse was $25,000, which is actually a 145% payout.

As for the Pro Series payout, and trophies, I don't have any info on that.

I think that was the problem...everyone was getting them mixed up.

Well either way I haven't recieved anything for UROC East series, money or trophy, and that ended a month ago. I more than likely will not be coming to Supercrawl now as I have really no reason to spend 4 grand to compete head to head against pro teams with little chance of making any of my invested money back. It's just not worth it, and next year I am already qualified for pros but I'll just sit out UROC unless I can run on the east coast. We are rookie team with no major sponser, theres just no way I can commit to spending 20K on travel on such an inconsitant organization. Looks like I might be running Calrocs and Neuroc instead. Hope someone out west enjoys my spot since it seems like thats who the UROC Pro is catered to.

PS Congrats Tracy on the win even if you don't have a trohpy to show for it.

Congrats to Tracy and everyone else :beer:

Jon is truly a man of integrity and I think that's the problem. The concept of treating others as they would have themselves be treated is Jon's business model. Jon, Jeff and everyone else say what they mean. Dustin, I really respect your upbeat attitude and I know you want the best for the sport.

I feel for Tracy in particular but I know that the people who didn't take first are saddened to be ignored. I still wear my hat and have a couple rocks on the mantle to show for my efforts from Warn.

The real shame though is that another season has passed and here we are (I guess I should really say here YOU are because I told you so) wondering why a snake is still a snake. With the exceptional leaps and amazing media coverage this sport has gotten how can you guys continue to blame yourselves for anything but being suckers? You didn't "misunderstand" you were lied to.

This makes year three I've said this, get organized :shaking:


fool me once; shame on you
fool me twice; shame on me
wtf - fool me three times and I'll grab my ankles and call you daddy? :shaking:

did you guys have a contract? did you get any guarantees in writing? isn't this what the driver's roundtable was supposed to prevent?

I really apologize for saying I told you so, but why do you let these guys lie and disrespect you and the entire sport you represent? :confused:

Is it just me or is someone pissing down your backs and telling you it's raining?

PLEASE GET ORGANIZED BEFORE NEXT SEASON, even I can't enjoy 4 years in a row of I told you so :flipoff2:

Well either way I haven't recieved anything for UROC East series, money or trophy, and that ended a month ago. I more than likely will not be coming to Supercrawl now as I have really no reason to spend 4 grand to compete head to head against pro teams with little chance of making any of my invested money back. It's just not worth it, and next year I am already qualified for pros but I'll just sit out UROC unless I can run on the east coast. We are rookie team with no major sponser, theres just no way I can commit to spending 20K on travel on such an inconsitant organization. Looks like I might be running Calrocs and Neuroc instead. Hope someone out west enjoys my spot since it seems like thats who the UROC Pro is catered to.

PS Congrats Tracy on the win even if you don't have a trohpy to show for it.

You can stay in the Extreme Series for two years without going Pro. If you are up there winning trophies they will ask you to go Pro or change drivers or classes or something after that. That is fact.

Bottom Line: 2 years before they say you are sandbagging. That means NOBODY is forced into the Pro Series this year.

Dumass........
The roundtable did what it could and most of the guys put a lot of time into it. We where over looked from the beginning. So we had no say so on this.

Dumass........
The roundtable did what it could and most of the guys put a lot of time into it. We where over looked from the beginning. So we had no say so on this.
That's precisely my point, you need to get organized and have a say. Everyone did and does work hard and risk a lot.
You all deserve better, you will obviously have to demand it to get it.

With the cost and necessary skill level required to compete at today's level the promoter needs you more than you need them. If a group of top competitors decided to step out on their own they would succeed.

Let's recap the high points; the competitors and the judges are not treated well, the events are paid for with your prepaid entry fees, you had to write the rulebook and you are liable for all risk. Did I miss anything?

Let's recap the high points; the competitors and the judges are not treated well, the events are paid for with your prepaid entry fees, you had to write the rulebook and you are liable for all risk. Did I miss anything?

Yes you did, it can be a ton of fun and profitable. Competition is not for everybody. I guess it was something for you for a while and now it is not. It is something for me now and someday in the future it may not be. If you really think what I quoted above is the truth, you are out of the loop.

Competitors and judges are treated well. There were probably more rockcrawling events this year than any year before. Why would judges and competitors come out of the woodwork to make them successful if they were not treated at all well?

The events are not paid for with our entry fees (at least in UROC). The minimum payout is 100%.

Some competitors helped write the rulebook this year and some of us are active in lobbying UROC on the 2005 rulebook. As with any rulebook there are disagreements and not everybody sees eye to eye.

Competitors are not liable for all risk by any means. I assume you are talking about liability.

The sky is not falling because a couple folks didn't walk away with trophies. I think we are doing pretty well. The sport continues to grow. The year was not all smooth and risks were taken. We are not out of the woodwork and more risks will be taken that shape the sport. We can all hang on for the ride or bail. I am not going to tell everyone what to do but it seems like all those that have bailed are STILL telling all of us that are hanging on that we are going to crash. We did not crash last year and I don't think we are going to crash this year.

I may have my head in the sand but something tells me that any kind of racing will have the same type of disagreements and the same people doubting any attempts to make it grow.

The roundtable voiced their opinions well. If you hauler too long and no one listens you will lose your voice eventually.

The roundtable voiced their opinions well. If you hauler too long and no one listens you will lose your voice eventually.

I agree, we all need to pick our battles. The thing is, I think the roundtable accomplished a lot. It might not have been everything we wanted and it is to bad that it really does not exist anymore but it did a lot for us at a critical point in the sport.

We are still accomplishing stuff, it does not work all the time but it makes a difference. Look at this thread as an example - page #1 people are upset partially because of the lack of trophies, page #2 Uroc has got the message and will attempt to remedy it the best they can.

I don't know, there is a lot of sun in my office. I guess I am feeling positive today! :flipoff2:

With the cost and necessary skill level required to compete at today's level the promoter needs you more than you need them. If a group of top competitors decided to step out on their own they would succeed.




I used to wonder if that were true when I was only a competitor. I think it would open a LOT of eyes if you tried it. Putting on an event is just tons more work than you could ever imagine. And the more people you spread the responsibility over, greater the odds one of 'em will phuck up and not come through for you. Even trying to do something like an 8-10 event series would require enough committment that there's no way you could do it & hold down a "day" job.

And here's the real kicker, you can just about forget competing if you want to promote. Aside from the obvious conflict of interest, there simply isn't enough time. Last time I competed at one of MY events was 1999. That's the committment that'd be hardest to make I suspect.

This isn't to say that you shouldn't pursue this if it's your dream. But, if you just go into it half-ass just to prove you can "do it better", it'll be far more trouble than it's worth. That's sort of the issue I face now. I NEVER wanted to be a promoter. I wanted to run a sanctioning body, PERIOD. I make the rules, recruit racers, conduct the event, end of story. My promoter let costs get out of control & went bellyup. Everyone still wanted to come to my races, so I tried for a season to do both. It's just too much. In the future, I'll have to either (a) just sanction it as before or (b) hire more help & that gets expensive :(

TEX

I would like to know what is getting better about uroc ?
1.Contingency used to be fun now everyone cant wait to get out of there.
2.less money for overall series winnings.
3.No trophys for series winners(Yes thats a huge deal superanger)
4.microphone wont work so tracy,jon and jason have to yell to thank sponsers
5.no one will take responsibility to make a decision (who has final say in uroc?)
6.you have to pay 250.00 at supercrawl to have a booth at contingency to sign autographs for kids (thats a joke)
7.Where is supercrawl?
8.St george was changed from a 2 day to a one day last minute , so I lost money at work and got to pay for a extra night in a hotel
9.judges and marshals should be paid and Mike baer
10.no contingency money this year except from tire sponsers but yet there are sponsers signs everywhere (whos getting the money ?
11.I spend alot of time and money with this sport I pay my dues Ive put 5 years of time in competitions and I hope it wasnt all for nothing.

Finally I think the payout from uroc for 1-6 is great ! but quit saying this is all for us . Remember this is a business for them . they are business men . Just do what you know is right

$20 says I can whoop you in a donut contest!

You're right about one thing Mitch, this is business and where I think UROC is missing the boat is that they are not building a strong employee/ employer relationship. The lack of respect on their part and the lack of trust on our part does not build a strong company.

Jon you probably could I dont eat donuts. :laughing:

I don't eat them any more! ( or any less)

I would like to know what is getting better about uroc ?
1.Contingency used to be fun now everyone cant wait to get out of there.
2.less money for overall series winnings.
3.No trophys for series winners(Yes thats a huge deal superanger)
4.microphone wont work so tracy,jon and jason have to yell to thank sponsers
5.no one will take responsibility to make a decision (who has final say in uroc?)
6.you have to pay 250.00 at supercrawl to have a booth at contingency to sign autographs for kids (thats a joke)
7.Where is supercrawl?
8.St george was changed from a 2 day to a one day last minute , so I lost money at work and got to pay for a extra night in a hotel
9.judges and marshals should be paid and Mike baer
10.no contingency money this year except from tire sponsers but yet there are sponsers signs everywhere (whos getting the money ?
11.I spend alot of time and money with this sport I pay my dues Ive put 5 years of time in competitions and I hope it wasnt all for nothing.

Finally I think the payout from uroc for 1-6 is great ! but quit saying this is all for us . Remember this is a business for them . they are business men . Just do what you know is right

Mitch, I know that you and others have a been doing this a lot longer than I have and I can respect that. From my perception, things are running along, the sport is still growing.

2 new magazines were created - that is good right? ESPN II is good right? I have never been on TV before. I have now several times do to UROC's promoting as well as my efforts. 2 new employees is good right? Should help communication in a strapped office.

For the first time ever, I am looking at getting some returns financially. This in part is do to UROC.

The money we pay in event and series fees is nothing more than a gamble. We are not (at least to my knowledge) paying UROC squat. We pay, they hold the money, they divy it up. Maybe some of this should go to judges and staff. that is our decision I guess.

UROC (as far as I know) is in the process of making series trophies. They screwed up, I have no idea why, but they did. At least they are listening and trying to fix it.

SuperCrawl is in Salt Lake City.

I think something that everybody keeps forgetting is that things can look a lot different from the other side of the table. I, for example, work for the city. Everybody hates the city. We are always screwing up and missing the obvious. I thought the same thing when I started my job. I learned that there are reasons why things are done the way they are, reasons you can't see from the outside. I think we need to keep this in mind when dealing with UROC. I do not think this excuses the trophies though.

Just so you know Mitch, I won the Extreme West Modified Series. You can bet it means as much to me as Tracy's win does to him. I do not have a trophy. I had a mike but I could not see my hand in front of my face as it was so dark. Things could have been better but I am willing to grow with the sport. If things have not changed three years from now I will decide if I can deal with it and if I can't, I leave. Maybe that is how you are feeling, I don't know.

The way I see it. UROC was building a foundation this year. I think everything was a little overinflated in 2003. They have invested money, a lot of it. We have TV coverage, magazine coverage, and live internet coverage. I think a small dream was put to bed in 2003 and a huge dream is hatching right now. Personally, I hope that in 2005 UROC will have time to deal with competitors needs better.

Jon says it best - "The lack of respect on their part and the lack of trust on our part does not build a strong company."

I think we always need to (as much as is tolerable) stick our best foot forward and do our best to work with UROC. We can not just blame them for problems. We need to find ways to fix them together.

I dont meen to bash them but they need to see the obvious . Like you said dirtsport the best magazine ive seen ,espn awsome ,off-road.com pirate4x4 etc.. but how silly is it that they are all there and what would be a better picture for all these advertisers and tv than tracy,jon and jason holding there trophys up standing on there cars as winners . but nothing, tell me what does espn think being there all year filming and no ending . come on theres got to be more to this ,how does ranch and mark explain that to them! come to supercrawl and get a picture of them holding there trophys . I just dont get it . all the time and effort to get these great advertisers and nothing at the end.

I agree. I think it could have been done better. I am struggling to go to SuperCrawl as I guess it is somewhat of a series event for me..... how does that work?

Believe me, I hope they fill some of the holes that we see, the best way I have found to do that is on the UROC forum or by sending e-mails to staff.

10.no contingency money this year except from tire sponsers but yet there are sponsers signs everywhere (whos getting the money ?



I don't know the situation with UROC, so I'll not judge them positively or negatively. But, this point here is pretty silly. Who gets the $ from the sponsors for the signs? The promoter of course. That's who SOLD the ad space. You even suggesting that the competitors might deserve a cut of this is ridiculous. Do the promoters get a cut of the money paid to have sponsor names on all the rigs out there? Of course not. You sell your space, they sell theirs.

Contingency programs are really nice for competitors, but they're not that great for promoters. The promoter does all the work to get the program, and the competitors reap the majority of the benefits. Let me ask you, if you had a $50,000 event to pay for would you go after sponsor $ you can put in your pocket, or $ that you keep a small cut of (if anything at all)? As a promoter, you chase contingency $ & free giveaways AFTER the bills have been paid.

Buddy of mine just took $2,500 to win a class at a local mud race in Arkansas. Doesn't sound like much in UROC terms, but it's about 10 times what he'd win at an average race (we often have entry fees as low as $15 per class). So, where'd the money come from? The promoter passed out 100% of the entry fees just like normal, but the local racers took it upon themselves to go out & get the rest. We've done the same at many races around here. $100 from a car dealer, $50 from the pizza place, pretty soon the purse is triple the entry fees and the promoter can still pay the bills. Might be something for ya to consider ;)

TEX

If a group of top competitors decided to step out on their own they would succeed.

But they would quickly become the dreaded "P" word: PROMOTERS!

UROC was started by Craig, who was a competitor, became a promoter, and is now a competitor again.

UROC is now run by Mark Patey, who competed along with his brother in UROC before becoming involved.

One of the founding members of ERoCC was Darrell Motley, a competitor.

Neuroc was started by a spotter, Kyle Knosp.

The Rocket City Rockcrawler's annual event is run by Scott Schlapman, a competitor.

And I know of another series being started next year by a competitor.

I'm sure there are other events and series where competitors were also involved that I am not aware of.

So it's already been done, many times over. What's the big deal? Your rants are useless rhetoric. If you have been preaching this for so long, why haven't you followed your own advice and started this up?

All I know is after 5 years of this nothing surprises me. I must admit the "SHOW" part of rockcrawling has come along ways but the treatment the competitors often get could still use some work. As long as we only have these un-official bitch threads and nothing directed to UROC nothing will change. That really should be UROC's main objective for this off season. Give us a place to call or e-mail and have a our questions answered in a timely manor.

(Tex ) . What im saying about contingency money is , last year there was skyjacker money KC hi-lites ,randys ring and pinion ,tom woods,etc...I do understand what your saying thats there money but they told us last year this year was going to be even better ,I pay out alot of money all year and count on hopefully recovering some ,every little bit counts. Why dont they just tell us this stuff up front . Also where is the stage from last year ? It was so cool at contengency to get our pictures by our cars with your spotter , then if you had a good weekend you get on stage accept your trophys standing there with your friends its a great feeling.

Allright im all done posting ,I dont ever do this, I just hope Mark and Ranch read this so they know whats important to us . they always say how much time and effort they put into this sport and i believe it ! but they also have to realize we sacrafice alot also and all the little things count.

(Tex ) . What im saying about contingency money is , last year there was skyjacker money KC hi-lites ,randys ring and pinion ,tom woods,etc...I do understand what your saying thats there money but they told us last year this year was going to be even better


I get what you're saying & yeah it is a bummer when things go backward instead of forward, especially if you're expecting things to be "better" than before.


TEX

Mitch,
There was NOTHING wrong with your post. Maybe some people see benefits swinging in other directions and can say that this season was still an improvement but still, your points all lead to one thing and that is the same thing that Jon pointed out so clearly. It is the communication issue and the fact that people come to expect one thing and then are never told that it will be another. It really is a weakness that needs to be addressed. I truly believe that if that one area had some improvement, 50% (or even more) of the controversy would go away.

As for the season, it was by far the largest growth this sport has seen and UROC has given teams the media opportunities they need to start making the jump to bigtime sponsors. UROC did its job there and now it is time for the teams to do their job and go out and chase the sponsors, touting all of the publicity as the reason they need to jump on-board. If teams have not started chasing already, you're really behind the ball as most companies will be making their decisions for 2005 in the next month or so...contacting them after will most likely get you a "NO" answer and you'll have to wait for fall of 2005 to chase for 2006.