If anyone could give up some pointers, articles or experience on switching my '69 FJ40 to power steering would be much appreciated. What to get steering box from, column extention, pitman arm etc.
Thanks for any help.
Mike

Check out my write up

Saginaw PS (http://www.off-road.com/tlc/tech/saginaw)

Also check out Woody's site for many other wirte ups.

IH8MUD.com (http://www.ih8mud.com)

Definitely go with the saginaw conversion, don't mess around with the weenie mini-truck PS box. If $$ is available, get an AGR box, I love mine....


good luck!!

Originally posted by elf_cruiser
Definitely go with the saginaw conversion, don't mess around with the weenie mini-truck PS box. If $$ is available, get an AGR box, I love mine....


good luck!!


All the AGR box is, is a Saginaw box out of a Jeep J20. They have a .5" larger bore. If you can find one in a junkyard you are golden...
You can look for a standard saginaw 800 box with a 3.5" front cover..
Also for more power do the mods to your pump listed on Woodys site...

Mike-

before you run off for a saginaw, questions:

1) how big a tire will you run?

2)what month and year production is cruiser?

3)do you give a sh$#t about value after you are done?

For all yea ready to flame, I do support saginaw in some cases but not all (like in 350 sm420'd 1965 vs a relatively stock 1982 40). And "60" series conversions are prettier IMNSHO than a sag, but sag is cheaper (not AGR though...)

I've heard a lot of negative comments on the mini ps install, and I have also heard a lot of preaching about the saginaw. I bought a fj60 ps box and am installing that in my 70fj55.

Anyone know how the fj60 box compares to the saginaw???

:fj: Thanks-

i did a 60 PS box on mine and LOVE it:rasta: :smokin:

Thanks for all the input,
Nice details in Erics wright up. I have '69 (not sure month of production) w/350 conversion so I think i will be able to get PS that mounts, and running 33's. No axle flip or shackle reversal. Not sure what the other FJ##'s are? Just getting into the cruiser world. Connecting the column sounds like the tricky part, several ways. Are the 60's vintage cars hard to find now? Whats a good price for one? Im in Cathedral city, i will hit the junk yards. Thanks again!
Cheers!!!

:beer:

Save your money on AGR products. I run Scout Saginaw in my system, and with 33-35" tires a stock box and stock pump was fine. The pump mods would make it excellent. With 38's I presently run the same setup, but have a http://www.westtexasoffroad.com modified box waiting to go in, with the hydraulic assist ports. $150 rebuilt, tweaked, and ported.

Jim VandeVen had a GREAT writeup on scout PS installs but his webpage has dropped....hopefully he replys to my emails and I can host his information on my site soon. He copied the setup in my truck, then actually took the time to write the article on it!

Originally posted by rick d
Mike-

before you run off for a saginaw, questions:

1) how big a tire will you run?

2)what month and year production is cruiser?

3)do you give a sh$#t about value after you are done?

For all yea ready to flame, I do support saginaw in some cases but not all (like in 350 sm420'd 1965 vs a relatively stock 1982 40). And "60" series conversions are prettier IMNSHO than a sag, but sag is cheaper (not AGR though...)

This summer I may be tackling the power steering conversion on my FJ40 and I'm curious about what needs to be done using FJ60 components. Can you give a quick overview of the FJ60 PS install on an FJ40 (all components, any modifications or "problems" encountered, etc..)?

TIA.

Originally posted by Cruiserhaven


This summer I may be tackling the power steering conversion on my FJ40 and I'm curious about what needs to be done using FJ60 components. Can you give a quick overview of the FJ60 PS install on an FJ40 (all components, any modifications or "problems" encountered, etc..)?

TIA.

Tom Pennington has a write up on installing the FJ60 Box in a FJ40. It is essentially like the Scout Saginaw conversion.
http://www.lslc.org/newsletterfiles/LSLC-Jun01.pdf

I like the mini truck "weenie" PS that I have had for the past 4 years. It is essentially the same as the stock FJ40 PS from '79-'82. It is a cheap and easy bolt on conversion and works fine for up to 35 inch tires.

If you've got a few minutes, check out the latest Lone Star Land Cruisers newsletter. It has a comparison between Saginaw, FJ60, and FJ40 (similar to mini-truck) power steering conversions.
Go to: LSLC Website (http://www.lslc.org/main.html)
and go to the "Newsletter" section. Download the "Summer 2001" edition.

Thanks Pin Head and JasonH, that was a great write-up on the FJ60 conversion, as well as the additional information on Saginaw conversions. That is a very nice newsletter (although the huge PDF, 2.28MB :eek: , strained my puny dial-up connection)!

I think after reading that I am actually leaning towards Saginaw.

BTW, I don't think the guy indicated what he did for the driver's side shock mount after the FJ60 conversion (maybe I missed it somwhere in there?). Did he go to a hoop style mount, since the box was mounted right where the stock shock mount went.

Originally posted by Cruiserhaven

BTW, I don't think the guy indicated what he did for the driver's side shock mount after the FJ60 conversion (maybe I missed it somwhere in there?). Did he go to a hoop style mount, since the box was mounted right where the stock shock mount went.
It didn't mention it cause he never put one on. I think he plans on adding one later, but this rig is trailered to the trail and he's never missed having a shock.

Mike et al-

A 1969 can have either one of the two center arms, the later adjustable and earlier non. With the early type, my rec is to skip mini/40 series steering and go saginaw or scout or '60' series. The steering column is problematic before 1973 models and one more incentive to move away from stock. Chevy tilt columns are the most readily available, but many others will work.

several hints.
1973+ FJ55 steering columns are nearly identical to a 40 series column with the exception that they are 1" longer and have a 30 spline (U joint accepting joint) on firewall side. therefore, the conversion to either sag/scout/60 is easier. they bolt right onto the plate of 1973-1980 4X series at firewall, take same turn switch, and steering wheel.

OE power steering columns are 1973-1980 style are 1" shorter than non power. They can be made (ala TLC for $100 w/ core) or bought from Toyota (still??). 1981+ PS columns are a shorter floating end (40mm) which can be made easily from a non power with hack saw and drill (for cross pin).

1968+ steering box mounts (with 4 bolt/stud) accept a factory box (40 series) w/o problem.

The Toyota PS housing for 40 series is available (about $250 TLCA new) and accepts mini truck guts to make a factory 40 series box.

later 60 and 62 intermediate columns can be lengthened by drilling out the two (plus) safety spot welds and several inches can be gained after rewelding (MIG plug style)(there are also some mini's that can do some thing).

'late' Fj60 boxes are identical in bolt spacing and turn function to FJ62 and FJ80 boxes, therefore a '60' conversion could use an 80 box. Early (1984 and back) 60 boxes are more unique and parts more $$$-I would not use for conversion as parts down road are harder to come by. As with any box, sub 150,000 miles is better than above. 250,000 mile boxes should be skipped.

70/75 series relay and tie rods can be used easily with 60 conversions which will require opening of 40 steering arm holes or using mini/60/or 70/5 steering arms. If one buys a 70 relay rod end from Toyota (yes, in the US) you get a new relay rod. Tie rods are the 23mm LH and RH type that Mudrack, Marlin, G Riemer etc have taps for and are an easy make....or cut and sleeve a 60 to right length.

"Ford" shock towers may be used for a longer shock, or custom made (all frame outboard) can me made up to allow the 60 intermediate shaft clearance. The 40 towers can be used, but really need to be switched side to side and ground to clear. (I am making custom vs modify of Ford type)

The 'plate' for a 60 steering should be on the inside only and 3/8" thick. Use 1/2" ID tube (5/8"+ OD) to support bolting through frame. The 1/8" scab plates are not recommended as the frame can still collapse.

and one myth-
you cannot 'drill' a pre 1979 block for the power steering mount. The holes are milled into the block and have a very close tolerance to not punch into water jacket.

Well, I thought i was sold on the Saginaw conv., but now I think I want to look into the Scout or 60 series more. I like the bolt on concept, and it sounds a little simpler with equal results. My steering column is kinda sloppy now, the later column or tilt sounds like a good idea. Dont really want to mess with shock mounts now though, can only fund a little at a time.

Thanks again for the tips.

The tie rod end on the steering box pitman arm from the original FJ40 relay rod fits the ball stud on the FJ60 steering box. Just disassemble the joint with a LARGE flathead, clean everything and slip the joint over the FJ60 steering box pitman arm ball stud and adjust properly. now all you have to do is lengthen your stock(albiet small) drag link about 2" and you are in business. I will have a write up on the FJ 60 box conversion in a couple of weeks. I also have templates for the frame scab plates if anyone chooses to use them. I put a 1/4" plate on the outsite of the frame and MIG'ed it in to beef it up...

Word of caution for future FJ60 steering box converts: The FJ60 pitman arm drops enough where if you ran a flexy spring over you WILL have problems with spring and steering components wanting to occupy the same place with the L wheel stuffed up towards the fender. NOT good. Looks like a BJ70 Pitman arm will reduce the drop by about 1.25" so that will get you more room.

IF you get the FJ60 box, try to get the steering shaft from the truck, especially if it is one of the later small u-joint style, as it offers lots more clearance...

:flipoff2:
i got a 60 box on and the shocks
SWEET
put the tower on before the box, is the key, BUT
flip the bolt int the shock tower and move the tower back like 5 inches or something, and the shcok, stays in factory location, take one side of the tower off, the inside, then the box can sit flush against it! EASY

bearing?
i used a suspension bush in the steering shaft, damn i wish we ha d that bearing for sale over here!

...adding to Brett's comments

the 70 series arm IS a US part.

and the inside of the 40 frame (just rear of crossmember) is nearly unboxed and ideally needs the support plate. I do know of one wheeling 40 with a 60 steering conversion that did tweak the frame because of poor support. A street truck should not 'need' that, but it is a good idea.

Go to the junk yard!
Pull a early 60's-70's chevy car stearing gear box 4.25 turns 4bolt. Then since you're there look into getting a s10 or simular steering column, tilt,standard trans column. Also get the steering column to gear box shaft. The column! you'le need to cut the fire wall flange off and make you're own flat flange to fit the L/C fire wall. Dont forget to keep the column to dash mount off the s10 column. You will need to cut the ears off the bracket. Take the old l/c strap off stock column and wrap around new column, Then take s10 column bracket bolt the 4 bolts ontop of the strap. Once you get this far you should be able to see whats going to make this simple change over work. As for gear box, Its very simple to do. All thats realy needed is some simple welding. Im sure there are some good sites on the net to help you walk through this. Its easier than it sounds.

For ease of intallation and low cost, probably the mini truck set up is the cheapest, as you can buy it as a bolt in kit. It depends on your level of fabrication expertise. I run the mini setup because a friend made up the brackets for me, and I think they are cheap from a few aftermarket sources. I had less than $100 in my whole set up, and that cost was a new rag joint, and the PS box, pump hoses and brakets from the junkyard. (well that and the labor of a few friends.)
That being said- it will be getting changed to another set up eventually, as even with my little 33" swampers i grab the draglink at lock, and when that is coupled with compression offroad...snap. I have broken two center arms. It would be nice to get rid of that draglink. My bumpstops are all the way out but with drum brakes for now.
My friend runs the 60 setup, and it seems to work really well with his 35" swampers, but he says it does not have the self centering characteristics that the mini box has. Still working out the bugs of the install though.

Im not to familiar with the mini truck setup. Does'nt it have a long output shaft that the pitman arm bolts to. Is it kinda of like a 4runners box. If so I've seen those snap pretty easy under 35"and a bit of pressure at the Rubicon and thats a fairly simple trail.
I baught my gear box for $35 at pick-n-pull, column $35,shaft$5
Then just abit of welding and some Gr8 bolts. The pitman arm from chevy to toy is kind of a problem. With this setup you could run 44" if you wanted to with out problems. As my saying go's better over built than under built breaking sh!t on the trail. As soon as I can post some pictures. I could show you step by step and make it alot easier to do. Maybe this weekend
I8hmud has a pretty good site.

Originally posted by rabid
My friend runs the 60 setup, and it seems to work really well with his 35" swampers, but he says it does not have the self centering characteristics that the mini box has.

None of these steering boxes is self centering. Self centering is a function of the caster angle. He probably installed larger tires (that need a little more caster to return to center) or inadvertently changed his caster angle more negative by changing springs or shackles. Variable ratio boxes have a different and lower ratio feel at center, but these are not variable ratio boxes.

Originally posted by Arnett
Im not to familiar with the mini truck setup. Does'nt it have a long output shaft that the pitman arm bolts to. Is it kinda of like a 4runners box. If so I've seen those snap pretty easy under 35"and a bit of pressure at the Rubicon and thats a fairly simple trail.


The minitruck boxes have a relatively short sector shaft that is the same length as the stock manual FJ40 box. Only 84 and 85 solid axle 4runners have this type of box. The later IFS box has a longer sector shaft as does the FJ60. The diameter of the shaft appears to be the same on all the Toyota boxes, although I haven't actually measured all of them.

Did they always put AGR pumps in j20's? The reason I ask is because my brother has a bunch of j20 stuff ( I haven't been able to convince him to get a cruiser ), including some power steering pumps and boxes. I have heard good things about the AGR conversion and would like to do it, especially if I have the parts available. I don't know how my cruiser would like having a j20 steering system though.

This sight is KICK ASS! I really appreciate all the input and $.02 worth everyone has given.