who rund full hydro on the street peridiocally? i just would like to know how it handles, charateristics it has and the suck. i know its not safe and all but im just looking how people like it who have experianced it. thanks!

It is safe if set up correctly.Go with a Howell set up I believe they are running them on desert racers now wich go alot faster than your daily driver should.. :D ..How qiuck your steering is determined by the pump, hydrostatic valve, and ram combo.You could also run a valve to reduce the flow to slow it down even more if you felt like it turned to fast for the street for you.Also most people that run hydr steering on there trail rig's are using the single sided push/pull ram's from tractor supply.The deal is that the ram pull's at a different amount of pressure than it pushes at.So that makes it respond quicker one way than the other wich makes it steering unbalanced and is really noticed the faster you go.That is why if you use a double sided it is a balanced so that will help it out alot.

How do you deal with a failed pump or the engine dieing? Don't you lose all steering?

How do you deal with a failed pump or the engine dieing? Don't you lose all steering?

Not saying its not possible to turn it, but how many drivers (old people and most females) can turn a steering wheel when the engine is off and there is no power steering, especially in time to avoid a object if need be? Let alone the brakes. :eek:

first of all a DD is not driven on the street from time to time. its DAILY.

secondly its not legal in anysense. you fawk up and kill someone and you ruin it for everyone including the people you kill.

third you make us look bad if you get pulled over and get a road side inspection and they catch it.

also - i know this is the noob section where flames should be avoided, but in light of basic safety and letting our sport go on, i said the things that needed to be said.

secondly its not legal in anysense. you fawk up and kill someone and you ruin it for everyone including the people you kill.

third you make us look bad if you get pulled over and get a road side inspection and they catch it.

first you show me where it is illegal . in writing,not BS intenet rumors

2nd you tell me how a traditional hi-steer setup is any more safe then a properly set up full hydro system.

3rd YOU make us look bad by passing misinformation of what is safe or not and then allowing this misconception to be passed to the general public that in turn gets passed to law enforcement that in turn screws us all.

ok now back to the original post. a properly matched system will handle as well or better than a typical hydro assist system. that being the key point:

a propely built system.

i would start a lot of reading including but not limited to this (http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-Hydro_Steering/index.html) and this (http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-Hydro_Steering/index3.html)
my system is built primarily from parts from www.rockstomper.com and WILL be driven on the street :shaking:

How do you deal with a failed pump or the engine dieing? Don't you lose all steering?

most "obital" valves are a pump in themselves and will turn the same as if when your "regular" power steering pump dies.
basicly it will suck but it will turn

it's still not legal, the same as not having an e brake. take your chances if you must. you need mechanical linkage to be legal.

Valleycat, show us the law... It has not been proven illegal. There are commercially made vehicles that are DOT approved with full hydro steering on the road every day.

show me a commerically made viechle that is DOT approved WITHOUT special permits and etc etc that does not have a mechanical linkage.

i do not agree with the whole mechanical linkage crap cause you can break a steering shaft just like blow a hose.



next the guy even says "i know its not safe" while i disagree with that on a well built system, a home built system may not be the safest.


i dont make US look bad by questioning how safe something is going to turn out. the pros know how to make it safe. the backyard peters sometimes just miss stuff not at their own fault just from inexperiance. hell im a backyard peter so to speak.

do your homework. talk to the pros. take your time. and i'd say it'd be a safe system for off the road.

most "obital" valves are a pump in themselves and will turn the same as if when your "regular" power steering pump dies.
basicly it will suck but it will turn

Ah. I didn't know that. I'm surprised you can generate enough pressure/flow by just the steering wheel.

show me a commerically made viechle that is DOT approved WITHOUT special permits and etc etc that does not have a mechanical linkage. .


ok


how about this
http://www2.uol.com.br/bestcars/carros/gm/quadrasteer-2.jpg
oh you mean a MAIN steering system :flipoff2:

this would be a Larc V daily driven here (http://www.duckmobile.com/?source=www.SplashTours.com) and a bunch of other tourist crappy places
http://www.diggerhistory.info/images/tanks/LARC-V-648.jpg

wait you will probly say that those are not made any more

ever see one of these?
http://www.elginsweeper.com/pelican/images/PBeauty.jpg
daily driven
on the road
DOT aproved
no special permits
hydrostatic drive AND steering
:D

i am not even getting into the shitload of medium duty cranes and shit that you see on the highways every day. of course there is the big ass cranes too but they "might" require a permit :p

point taken. now before you run it on the street. do your Fing homework and dont kill me with a shoddy job.

point taken. now before you run it on the street. do your Fing homework and dont kill me with a shoddy job.

point taken also :flipoff2:
thats why i told him to definatly read the tech articles and contact the diffrent venders who deal in full hydro to make sure his setup is correct and balanced for his aplication :p

actualy people with poorly setup "traditional" steering systems scare the fuck out of me more than the full hydro guys :eek:

scaring sterring.com

i forgot the website. we all seen the worest of the worest. its the the site with 4 foot lift shackle outta flat stock and the drive shafts that dont work cause they are at 90 degrees. damnit.

http://128.83.80.200/taco/scarysteering.html

I did read the Ca book on Vech codes and how it pertains to the shit we do to our rides ........... the part that they "get" us is where its NOT how it came from the factory, NOT O.E.M

So yes the X-over steering on my 4runner is illeagle also.........

A friend of mine has a original full hydro setup at home, from a 60's 2 ton GMC 4x4....

This really pisses me off when people flat out say it's "illegal". Check you state laws and go from there. Washington, which is a commie friggin 4 wheel hating mess, has NO laws prohibiting full hydro steering (checked this with the State Patrol office and read all the codes to double check). There are limits on how much slop you have in your steering wheel and how much play is in your tie rod ends but that's it.

Any steering setup can be dangerous if not properly constructed. To be honest I'm far more afraid of idiots who do their own brakes! :shaking:

first of all a DD is not driven on the street from time to time. its DAILY.

secondly its not legal in anysense. you fawk up and kill someone and you ruin it for everyone including the people you kill.

third you make us look bad if you get pulled over and get a road side inspection and they catch it.

When I went and talked to the inspection station down the road they said no problem inspecting it here in Texas.Then I went to another and they said the same.I also talked to DPS officer here in Texas and he said no problem.That is good enough for me.I would like to see what INSAYNE has to say he is a cop in Arlington or Dallas I can not remmber.And also yes full hydro will still steer slowly when the motor dies.You can also put a valve in there that works kind of like a accumulator in the oil system that will keep enough pressure in the system long enough to get it stopped.If you have a tie rod fail I wonder where you will be surely somewhere you do not want to be.

In Texas there is nothing that specifies the legality of any type of steering setup. Most laws here refer to vehicle equipment, safety equipment and moving violations, as with most all other states. It is an inspection point here so they can scrutinize it, but that is for inspection and not Law Enforcement. When inspecting the steering they are looking for worn tie rod ends, loose or missing nuts etc, not the type. Just because someone thinks it is wrong in their opinion doesn't mean it is on the books.

Here are the inspection points found here:
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/vi/publications/rules/ch4.htm#05.02

05.02 Inspect Every Pickup, Panel, or Truck Under 80 Inches Wide For: (Listed in suggested order of inspection)
* Check for evidence of Financial Responsibility
1. Horn
2. Windshield Wipers
3. Mirror
4. Steering
5. Seat Belts
6. Brakes (system) Parking - (beginning with 1960 models)
7. Tires
8. Wheel Assembly
9. Safety Guards or Flaps (if four tires or more on rearmost axle)
10. Exhaust System
11. Exhaust Emission System (beginning with 1968 models)
12. Beam Indicator (beginning with 1948 models
13. Tail Lamps (2); (1) if 1959 model or earlier
14. Stop Lamps (2); (1) if 1959 model or earlier
15. License Plate Lamp (1)
16. Rear Red Reflectors (2)
17. Turn Signal Lamps (beginning with 1960 models) (mea-sure if 1959 model or earlier)
18. Head Lamps (2)
19. Motor, Serial, or Vehicle Identification Number
20. 1988 & newer - inspect for window tinting or coating
21. Gas caps on vehicles 2-24 model years old.
Overall width is determined by measuring from the widest part on one side to the widest part on the other side of the vehicle. In some vehicles this may be the dual wheels which would be considered as part of the width. Do not include an outside mirror or mirrors in determining overall width.

This is found here:
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/tn.toc.htm

§ 502.005. REFUSAL TO REGISTER UNSAFE
VEHICLE. (a) The department may refuse to register a motor
vehicle and may revoke a registration if the department determines
that a motor vehicle is unsafe, improperly equipped, or otherwise
unfit to be operated on a public highway.

But when registering a vehicle here DPS do not physically inspect it so that is a mute point.

Any steering setup can be dangerous if not properly constructed. To be honest I'm far more afraid of idiots who do their own brakes! :shaking:

Im far more afraid of the idoits who let some one else do their brakes. ever look at the kind of guys who work at midas like places

First post, but a long time lurker. I have full hydro on my FJ40. I am one of those "redneck fawkers" that took parts from stuff I had lying around, but they came from the same piece of equipment, except the ram which is doubled-ended. I have plenty of wrench time on tractors and other equipment that rely on hyro steering.

When I do drive the '40 at highway speeds, I remove the belt from the pump, which gives me "manual" steering. With the belt on at highway speeds, the steering is too reactive. The manual steering with the non-powered hydro "feels" the same as a normal mechanical manual steering. It just takes some strength to move the 36's from a dead stop. Once rolling, they turn fine.

Here's the only picture I have on the 'puter.

This really pisses me off when people flat out say it's "illegal". Check you state laws and go from there. Washington, which is a commie friggin 4 wheel hating mess, has NO laws prohibiting full hydro steering (checked this with the State Patrol office and read all the codes to double check). There are limits on how much slop you have in your steering wheel and how much play is in your tie rod ends but that's it.

I second that- they chase you down for a dim tailight, cracked windshield, ect. It cam to the point it was to much to drive my truck with 4" lift and 33's becuase i kept getting pulled over for BS. I had mudflaps, all functioning stock lights, good brakes, ect. Just real minor violations they wouldn't have noticed otherwise.

kstatecruiser1- what kind of ram is that? where did you get it?

I don't remember what brand of cylinder it is. I got it from surpluscenter.com (sorry don't know how to do the linky thing). It was something similar to this.

Thanks, ill check it out.

I really don't think a well engineered full hydro setup, legal or not, has any place on a road driven vehicle.

I know I'll catch flak for this, but some things just are too borderlline with me. Hydro assist is fine, I'd run it without thinking, but full hydro just doesn't give me that tingly feeling when I go down the road.

maybe the question to be asking is what is the best hydraulic system for on the road use?

I just read Bella Vista's articles on his full hydro steering and it answered all my questions i have ever had about cylinder and pump selection, running it on the street ect. I plan on saving for some high quality parts like a balanced double ended ram and a return to center valve. And yes, i will be running it on the street.

maybe the question to be asking is what is the best hydraulic system for on the road use?

One that still has a drag link.

I really don't think a well engineered full hydro setup, legal or not, has any place on a road driven vehicle.

I know I'll catch flak for this, but some things just are too borderlline with me. Hydro assist is fine, I'd run it without thinking, but full hydro just doesn't give me that tingly feeling when I go down the road.

Maybe you are not confident in your self for this...hmmm
:flipoff2:

Maybe you are not confident in your self for this...hmmm
:flipoff2:


I'm not even sure that was a complete sentence. If it was please rephrase it because it makes no sense.

One that still has a drag link.

how does this make a steering system any more or less safe?

If your ONE connecting point to your pitman arm breaks or disconects you crash :D still feel safe? :flipoff2:

and dont get into the whole "hydrualic failing" speach that everyone else does. complete failure of the system is not that common. its actualy less common then your power steering doing the same. Most failure on hydrualic systems is due to impropper design or someone not taking care of thier shit.

hose getting worn: replace it
hose or fitting leaking:replace it
pump whine:replace/fix it
cylinder leaking: replace it


I dont mind you not "feeling" it safe for you. but dont downplay those that are content with it as a proven system

What about the belt coming loose on the pump? Is THAT a potential problem?

My one connecting point can fail at the pitman arm and I still have a 2" hydro ram to turn my tires asshat.

Then you yourself are still sayin' the hydro outlasts the stock. :flipoff2:

Anyways, Hydro as a DD is my goal, we'll see if it comes true soon.

Phil

Edit: speeeling.. :p

What about the belt coming loose on the pump? Is THAT a potential problem?

My one connecting point can fail at the pitman arm and I still have a 2" hydro ram to turn my tires asshat.
if you break your draglink, you're hydro assist will only turn FULL right or FULL left, have fun playing pinball down the freeway

the bottom line for ANY steering system is to have the proper components in good condition. this can be done right and wrong with manual steering, power steering, hydro-assist, or full-hydro.

Hell, I run mine w/o the belt on the pump when I drive on the street/highway.

What about the belt coming loose on the pump? Is THAT a potential problem?

My one connecting point can fail at the pitman arm and I still have a 2" hydro ram to turn my tires asshat.

ok we have left the relm of joking/sarcasm/poking fun/ :flipoff2: /ect and walked into the area of flaming.
being as this is the Newbie section i will not be a total dick.


if you would fucking bother to read HALF of the posting on this board or eather of the links i provided in my FIRST posting on this thread you would have come to the knowledge base that the correct hydrostatic valve for our aplication has pumping capabilities.or even kstatecruiser1's post in this same thread.

ie: the fucking belt slips i can still turn.

hard? yes about the same as manual steering

and no you do not have steering if your drag link fails, well not untill you turn your wheel ALL THE WAY to the left and then ALL THE WAY to the right in order for the pitman arm to bind and give pressure to the ram.
unless you chain the piman arm in place but i doubt you will be fawking MacGuyvering it like that while hauling ass down the highway.


also what 2inch ram are you using? what rod size? what throw? I doubt you have the correct system to be judging shit you clearly know nothing about. I dont think you have the credentials to be haphazardly tossing about information to new people who will be tainted by your lack of knowlegde.

show me your setup. If it is all good you can chime away on your hatred of full hydro.

untill then stay out of this thread as you have nothing to contribute.


the short commings of both systems have been clearly defined in this thread. It is up to the end user to figure what he needs

Just check your OWN state laws before too far into the project. Hell, ask a cop or dmv.

In Va, it would be difficult to pass annual safety inspections because of these guidelines for state inspectors.

Reject Vehicle If:
-Any modification has been made to the front end suspension which reduces turning radius, bypasses safety components of original steering mechanism or if there is any lateral movement between the axle and frame.
-Any modification has been made to any part of the steering or suspension system that affects proper steering or suspension or ANY part of the original suspension system has been disconnected.
-Any part of the steering/suspension is missing, bent, cracked, or broken.

This is all open to interpretation of course.