Alright, we've debated this some on the D90 list but I want to post it here. I have a Land Rover D90 that I've dumped $$$!!! into to make it seriously trailworthy. It was a case of buying the D90 cuz i loved them, then getting into the sport of offroading and then wanting more and more stuff once the old trails got easy. A couple months ago I sat back and realized that I could have kept my truck stock as a DD and spent the money that i spent on mods for a very trailworthy rig. So, this all brought me to the Unimog....

Portal Axles, 38-42" tires, good articulation, easy parts to find for the most part, etc. all in all it's a BADASS vehicle out of the box.

So I'm always suprised that even among hardcore wheelers the Mog is not a popular choice. Just out of curiosity...why not?

I seriously debated selling my DD to get one but the GPM (gallons per mile) and top speed were a hinderance from my over 100 miles a day round trip. Top speed on the freeway was also an issue. I went to an importer in Litchfield Az and checked a few out. They even sell the new ones the state buys for power line maintnance. Definitely BADASS but high maintanance and expensive to own. The 404 was about $10k and a radio box (not sure the model) was like $12k. Nice price to performance ratio.

It's BUTT ugly !

I personally don't think they're ugly, actually kinda cool looking, at least different. Even so, i always hear people on this board talking about how they don't care how stuff looks just that it works. Actually emphasis on looks usually gets people flamed.

I definitely agree Scouter, they are not for DD purposes. A pretty nice stock 404 can be had for about 7,000 though and it wouldn't need many mods at all. At that price it's not unreasonable to use it as stricly a trail rig.

-Steve

I personally have never seen one for sale guessing that has something to do with it! I mean if I have to go across country o find one thats a big turn off

also they're not all that high maintenance or that expensive to own. There were a lot of 404s produced so parts are a cinch to find and that 2.2li engine was used on SO many MBs you can buy a whole new engine for like $500. Gas milage isn't good, but it's really not that much worse than my D90...the mog gets 10-12, the D90 gets 13 on a downhill trip.

:zzz: mmm, portals...
-Steve :flipoff2:

Mogs ROCK!

I personally would go with the 406 - 416 diesel w/ a 20 spd. cascade trans, they also have larger axles and can be had around 12,000.00 and up some w/ turbo's

they will eat a jeeps ass for the money!!!!!!!!!:roxy:

the 406/416 is definitely more bombproof...however, they are quite pricey and hard to find compared to the many 404s readily available for well under 10 grand. Also spares for the 406/416 are much more expensive. The 406 tops out at around 40mph. The 416 can do highway speeds but they are all around $18,000. The 404 also has much better articulation due to increased frame flex. The 404 can do 55 on the highway...good enough to get to trails, but definitely uncomfortable and slow for a DD. I was able to go wheeling in a 404 that I was about to buy for 7 grand and it really impressed me. Also they have PTOs front, rear, and center, and many are equipped with hydraulics. Oh, did i mention the 113:1 stock crawl ratio and available crawler box that is around $400 that will give a 175:1 and 350:1!!!!!

-Steve

Slow..Ugly..Slow..Gutless..Ugly..Long..Need more reasons? and the name sucks too :flipoff2:

Iz likes the Mogs! I wouldn't mind having one!! For those of you that don't think there off road worthy, I'll have to beg to differ. I've seen em in action, and they are beasts.:skull:

I have a feeling anyone that has actually seen a mog in action won't argue with their offroad worthiness. If you'd like to see videos of mogs in action download some of these that Perrone Ford has on his site. The mog with coilovers is SICK!!


Link for Mog video Downloads (http://www.spanishtrailrovers.com/Videos/videos.html)

-Steve

check out the video of the Pinz too. There's another nice truck for you...like a streetable Mog that seats a zillion people. That 6x6 one is pretty damn nice.

-Steve

Originally posted by The Chad
Slow..Ugly..Slow..Gutless..Ugly..Long..Need more reasons? and the name sucks too :flipoff2:

Glad somebody agrees with me. And yes, the name LOOKS like the vehicle. They may be trail worthy, but if Marge Shott had the best Puntang in the universe, I still wouldn't do her given the chance!

Originally posted by orbitcat


Glad somebody agrees with me. And yes, the name LOOKS like the vehicle. They may be trail worthy, but if Marge Shott had the best Puntang in the universe, I still wouldn't do her given the chance!

HA! that's a terrible mental image. I can definitely see how some people think they're ugly...alright maybe most people:D . I personally think it's pretty cool to look that unique but i'm sure i'm in the minority on that taste issue.

-Steve

Well, here in Ontario, i am pretty sure that they aren't street legal...
There's a guy in town that has had 4 of them for sale for like 2 years, went by his place yesterday, he's down to 2. And from talking to his neighbour (he was out in the yard the first time i stopped by) he said that the owner wanted around 15 grand for them. That's Canadian $$$ mind you, probably around $9,000 U.S.
They are pretty awesome machines. But are parts as easy to come by as say a Jeep, or Toy?
Most people that really get into wheelin start off small with their DD and slowly build it up. Most people can't afford to drop 10 grand up front, but a couple hundred here and there.... not a problem.
Also, having stood beside these things (I have no idea what model they were) they are pretty damned big and tall, no way they would fit into the average garage, probably not even with the tire off. :D
So, if you do your wrenching in the garage, can't do it on a mog.

I think they are pretty cool looking myself. :D

Originally posted by The Chad
Slow..Ugly..Slow..Gutless..Ugly..Long..Need more reasons? and the name sucks too :flipoff2:

Gutless? I assume you're referring to lack of power. For a few $$ you can go to high compression heads and dual carbs to get you about 130hp. I'm not sure what you mean by long...the 406 is a 90inch wheelbase and the 404 is 104" i believe.

I'm just playing devil's advocate...I don't own a mog (yet) so I haven't had enough time to give real life opinions, just specs and some first hand observations.

-Steve

The size is a very valid consideration. They are slightly narrower than a Hummer and pretty tall with those big meats. Obviously their offroad ability doesn't count for shiat if they can't fit on the trail. I think maybe you have to see one in person before you can start to appreciate the looks at all, pics don't do it justice.

-Steve


Originally posted by The Adam Blaster
Well, here in Ontario, i am pretty sure that they aren't street legal...
There's a guy in town that has had 4 of them for sale for like 2 years, went by his place yesterday, he's down to 2. And from talking to his neighbour (he was out in the yard the first time i stopped by) he said that the owner wanted around 15 grand for them. That's Canadian $$$ mind you, probably around $9,000 U.S.
They are pretty awesome machines. But are parts as easy to come by as say a Jeep, or Toy?
Most people that really get into wheelin start off small with their DD and slowly build it up. Most people can't afford to drop 10 grand up front, but a couple hundred here and there.... not a problem.
Also, having stood beside these things (I have no idea what model they were) they are pretty damned big and tall, no way they would fit into the average garage, probably not even with the tire off. :D
So, if you do your wrenching in the garage, can't do it on a mog.

I think they are pretty cool looking myself. :D

Speaking of pics, i've got a digital camera from my father's office, i may just go downtomorrow and take some pics with my Dakota parked beside it as reference...

Scratch that, he took the digicam with him on a trip......

They are very cool and there are a few of them around here. Actually there is an importer not far from where I work. The main issue that I see with them is that most of the weight appears to be over the front axle and that wheeling a 'mog without a load on the deck could feel extremely unbalanced. I've never driven one though so I'm just guessing.


Here are some specs for the 404 that I just stole off this website. http://www.cs.brandeis.edu/~zippy/unimog-404.html

width: 84in
length: 194in
height: 86in (cab height: 63in)
cargo bed: 118in x 78in (84in x 82in with double-cab)
wheelbase: 2900mm (114in)
turning radius: 42.6ft
empty weight: 6393lb
gross weight: 9700lb
tires: 10.5 x 20 (DOT)
fuel: 2 x 15.9 gal
ground clearance: 15.7in
fording
(w/o equipment): 80cm (31.5in)
traverse angle
(side slope): 42 degrees
approach angle: 45 degrees
departure: 46 degrees
climb: 70%
descent: 90%
avg mpg (gas): 10-14
trans. gearing
forward: 14.93/8.23/4.47/2.46/1.52/1.0
reverse: 20.12/11.09

yeah i meant 114" for the wheelbase not 104. The weight thing is an issue to be addressed although in my experience with them it hasn't been a problem. I measured ground clearance on one with 38" Swampers (yes, it's easy to do a 16.5" rim conversion) at just over 18" with the tires fully inflated. Looking under one will make you immediatly remember the last time you got caught up on something and want to kick yourself.

-Steve

Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder!:beer: I dig them!

way cool pic of a softtop 406 (maybe 416). That's gonna be my backround from now on.

-Steve

I chould own one any day I love them. I saw one driving around in the snow with out a top and it was WAY biger then the one that Old Scout posed

laughing in/at the Box

For a few $$ you can go to high compression heads and dual carbs to get you about 130hp.

Great now it will do 24.5mph up a hill insted of 22.7mph!
I thought my 250HP and 5000# Blazer needed more power.

Personally I like the way some of them look...but not enough to buy one. If I had 10 grand to throw away...it would be fun to see how long it would last with me driving it.

What would they say at AutoZone when you ask for a alt. for a 77 Mog? (and I don't think it would be: Is that Gas or Desiel?).

:rainbow: :rainbow: :rainbow: :barf: :flipoff2:

IMO the only thing good about the mogs are the axles. The rest is no good for wheeling.

The thing is designed to carry stuff on a short wheelbase so its got a big wide tall honkin cab way at the front that would just hit everything.

Its got really bad weight distribution.

It hasnt got enough power.

Its gearbox isnt designed for a lot of power and wouldnt handle much more than stock.

And the suspension setup is bad for wheeling in that it has shiat loads of anty dive and anti squat caused by its single axle pivoting setup.

So like I said the axles are good.

Sam

ps I dont really know a lot about mogs but this is my understanding of them.

One more thing..They Suck :flipoff2:

the mogs are one of the most bad ass rigs every produced. chad you don't now jack and quite padding:flipoff2: i can get one right now for 6k a 404 model, with some cage work and tires its ready to kick ass on the trail and still be legal on the road.

The town I grew up in had a fleet of 406's for plow trucks. After five years of duty, they were auctioned off for around $1,500.00 each!

If I only knew then what I know now!!!!!!!!!!!!

A lot of municipalities sel them off as does the US Army.

Corps of Engineers use them as well.

www.unimogwherehaus.com

:beer: :beer: :beer:

A local place had one for sale once for fairly cheap. It would have been an awesome vehicle but they are too damn wide. Only place I would be able to take it around here is on the beach. Seems like a lot of money to spend on a vehicle to only use it on the beach.
Yes they are ugly, but its so damn ugly its good looking.

Originally posted by offroadr35
I have a feeling anyone that has actually seen a mog in action won't argue with their offroad worthiness. If you'd like to see videos of mogs in action download some of these that Perrone Ford has on his site. The mog with coilovers is SICK!!


Link for Mog video Downloads (http://www.spanishtrailrovers.com/Videos/videos.html)

-Steve I love the music on that first video, "Piece of sh!t car".

here's a pic of dan johnsons Rock Mog. Among other things it has an LT1 engine.

http://www.angelfire.com/ak4/johnson/Rockmog2.jpg

guess angelfire pics can't be linked...here's a link to it.

Rock Mog (http://www.angelfire.com/ak4/johnson/RockMog.html)

--Steve

There was a big yellow Rhino lined Mog in the stock mod class at the Warn RCC that ended up forth, right behind the Curries. It was very impressive watching it, and the guys driving it. They did a very good job getting that huge thing around. The gearing in it was most impressive. Too bad they are so massive. I know nothing about them, but I sure wouldn't mind having one.
Brian

Mogs are the Holy Grail of off road vehicles. No question. Yes, they're low on balls-to-the-wall power, but with everything they have out of the box, there is none better.

Just think: If you spent all the time and money modifying a mog that you do on something like a heep or a yota or a rover or whatever, you get an even more capable rig!!!

And yeah, they're big, but we've gotten a K5 blazer through the 'con, so I know you could make it fit.. :flipoff2:

-John

Mogs are cool. I gotta have one... right after I finish my next 3 projects :D

Seriously tho, I want one, preferrably diesel...

Did someone say "good articulation" and "Unimog" in the same sentence?

Must be my hearing . . .

Steve G

I say keep your D90 and wheel it!

Johnathan

Why is it all the newbies are baggin on the mogs??? I personally think they are cool as hell. I still will own one someday. I agree w/ the jeep cost/performance vs. the mog cost/performance ratio. Its not a passenger vehicle its a goddam military utilitarian style thing. What would you newbies own instead a fawkin hummer w/ positraction??? JMO these things will not only run a hummer ver butr can tow the remains away without a problem.

Originally posted by scouter77
Why is it all the newbies are baggin on the mogs???

Hey Dude, ease up. I've got that blasted 'newbie' label and I'm in total agreement with you (as I previously posted). These things come with everything on them that we all have to work so damn hard to install on our rigs: Lockers, gearing, snorkel, winch, offset axles (SWEET). And I don't care what anyone says, they look freakin' cool! Not to mention a ton of capacity space to load up the campiin' gear and take the family out for a weekend on the trail. I would really dig one of these 4-door versions:
http://www.unimogwherehaus.com/trucks/fall2001/3dokas.jpg

And by the way, I HATE hummers.

Originally posted by scouter77
Why is it all the newbies are baggin on the mogs??? I personally think they are cool as hell. I still will own one someday. I agree w/ the jeep cost/performance vs. the mog cost/performance ratio. Its not a passenger vehicle its a goddam military utilitarian style thing. What would you newbies own instead a fawkin hummer w/ positraction??? JMO these things will not only run a hummer ver butr can tow the remains away without a problem.

They bag on them because they don't know.
That rock mog in the link above won the rockcrawling deal on ESPN last week.

Granted It was not ARCA or Calrocs but it still won. And anyone that thinks that thing is ugly is smokin something.

I'd love to have one just to be different.

Originally posted by Paul Gagnon
They are very cool and there are a few of them around here. Actually there is an importer not far from where I work. The main issue that I see with them is that most of the weight appears to be over the front axle and that wheeling a 'mog without a load on the deck could feel extremely unbalanced. I've never driven one though so I'm just guessing.


You actually want more weight up front than in the rear for extreme wheelin. Just ask any of the guys around here that compete.

I know the guy that owns this one.
http://www.eurotruck-importers.com/images/SSCroatia.jpg
Hope to get a ride in it soon. he got it from here.
http://www.eurotruck-importers.com
http://home.att.net/~rldp/links.htm mor mog links than you could surf in a day.
I would love to have a 416 Doka. Not sure I would trail it all the placed I take my K5 but you can get hwy gears for them and they will run 70mph.

Yeah, this thing sucks all right... :rolleyes:

I agree that they look cool and (though I've never seen one in action) they're probably awesome on the rocks, but at 6400 pounds, bone dry (most of which is perched squarely over the front axle) one of those things would just sink to the bottom of the pit and stay there on most of the trails I wheel...

And while $10 grand is pretty good for a new rig that's undeniably well-equipped, you could build a far more capable rig for less starting out with a used Jeep, Toyota, Scout, EB, you name it...

That said, I'd still love to have one... :flipoff2:

IMHO,
Jake

Oh, and they're one of the flexiest stock vehicles there is. Whoever said Mogs don't flex haven't seen a NORMAL (Anything with IFS, stock model CJ,YJ, etc.) vehicle try to wheel with it's stock suspension...

And yeah, that approach angle sucks. It's barely better than a Jeeps, and we know they can't wheel worth Jack...

Originally posted by Jakesteramalamajama
One of those things would just sink to the bottom of the pit and stay there on most of the trails I wheel...
Wow - that must be some pit, since these things frequently come with tires that make a 44" Bogger look short.

Russ runs one at Disney as a recovery vehicle. It can go anywhere and it has drug out many times it's weight in broken JEEPS! :D :D :D :D

They are like a lady. when you first see them it is kinda unatractive. but then when you learn they can GET IT! your out look on them changes.

high line in the box.
http://home.off-road.com/~dkf/rubicon99/Picture49.jpg

Mogs are uncompromise vehicles like Mercedes Gelaedewagen.

Here's a German mog participating in the Sweden Offroad Tour. It's got onboard welder and the radio cabin was converted to a camper.
http://www.swedenoffroad.com/pic/sot2001/8.jpg

Mogs kick ass...here's a guy we wheel with just cruzin a line that a couple of locked Toy's and Jeeps on 36's couldn't make

http://128.83.80.200/taco/sanangelo9.jpg

Heres another pic of him taking a line nobody had made before...even some big blocks on 44's

http://128.83.80.200/taco/sanangelo21.jpg

I did pull a mog out of some deep sand once with my runner :D ...but he had skinny tires, and he actually still did real good in the quicksand we were wheeling in.

I want one.

<img src="http://www.villagephotos.com/pubimage.asp?id_=117217" width=400 height=276 >

I knew the Piraters would appreciate the Mog. people have so many misconceptions of them, but the bottom line is that they ROCK. I'm suprised to see so many pics of the diesel ones. In my opinion the 404 (gas) is way better for rock crawling. Better articulation, better wheelbase, easier to locate spares as well as cheaper spares, easy to change to 16.5" wheels to run swampers, etc. Hopefully I'll be getting one soon. It's good to see that POR won't throw me out for having it;) :flipoff2:

-Steve

Originally posted by offroadr35
I knew the Piraters would appreciate the Mog. people have so many misconceptions of them, but the bottom line is that they ROCK. I'm suprised to see so many pics of the diesel ones. In my opinion the 404 (gas) is way better for rock crawling. Better articulation, better wheelbase, easier to locate spares as well as cheaper spares, easy to change to 16.5" wheels to run swampers, etc. Hopefully I'll be getting one soon. It's good to see that POR won't throw me out for having it;) :flipoff2:

-Steve

the 404 is not as harcore as the 406 and 416. The diesel can't be beat. If you are going to go slow you may as well do it is style. The 406 is bigger and has a better tranny if you get teh case model.

Unimogs kick ass but hey are not popular becuase they can't realy acheive freeway speed and you can't tow them like a jeep.

the best way to go would be to get the kit to switch to a chevy 350 in a 406 or 416DOKA. You would be big as fuck, portal axels, plenty of power, massive gearing, and stock

finding parts also sucks, tey are all in europe and althought they are easy to find that does't help you when you break on the trail.

I STILL WANT ONE

Kodak, do you know what model this is?
Cause the guy sellin them in my town is selling two of these:

http://home.off-road.com/~dkf/rubicon99/Picture49.jpg

Originally posted by The Adam Blaster
Kodak, do you know what model this is?
Cause the guy sellin them in my town is selling two of these:

http://home.off-road.com/~dkf/rubicon99/Picture49.jpg

that is a 404 you should be able to pick up one in GOOD condition for 7-10 but more around 7

Originally posted by orbitcat


They may be trail worthy, but if Marge Shott had the best Puntang in the universe, I still wouldn't do her given the chance!
Damn....I fell out of my chair on this one...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by offroadr35
[B]

Gutless? I assume you're referring to lack of power. For a few $$ you can go to high compression heads and dual carbs to get you about 130hp. ...

that sounds like the motor mods and power of my lawnmower..:D

Originally posted by Yota_san

Wow - that must be some pit, since these things frequently come with tires that make a 44" Bogger look short.

Those big tires don't mean shit in a mudhole unless you gots the juice to spin em. The lugs plug up and they turn into slicks in a hurry.

Mogs are cool looking. Other than that the only other thing I know about them is, we somehow got behind a group of 5 and it took us 9+ hours to do a 3 hour trail. They weren't doing to well on that 4+ trail.:( To me it they seemed heavy and clumsy with a nasty center of gravity.:confused:

Well, after reading all this stuff, I thought I would toss in some facts to go with the common misconceptions. I will confine my discussion to the 404 (gasoline) model since its the cheapest and easiest to find.

The 404 has a center of gravity located in a plane about the frame axis. It's got better slope ratings than any jeep or Land Rover. its got an 82 HP engine and will do 65 flat out on the highway at sea level. Out in the Utah or Colorado, thats about 55. They suck on the highway. Enough said about that. Some call them ugly, some not. Not going there. Ok, on to the good stuff...

They have final gearing at 113:1 stock. The 20 speed in the 406/416 is unsuitable for crawling because the gears are not nearly as strong. Many owners have broken ther 20 speed boxes in Pritchett and other places. The 404 comes on 37" tires with portals. The axles are rated to about 70mph. If you push it too hard for too long, you'll burn them up. Tap the diff and install an oil cooler. That's what I intend to do.

The mog has a fully waterproof igniton and its electrically shielded. You could play an AM radio on top of the distrubutor. No more RFI filters for your CB or CD player. The engine will run underwater all day if you install the $45 snorkle. The entire drivetrain is sealed and pressurized. It will not take in water or dust. And you cannot scrape a driveshaft on a rock. It has 2wd, 4wd, and lockers F/R. All shift on the fly at ANY speed. It has no transfer case as it is always in low. The tranny is a stressed member unlike any other truck I have ever seen. The mog will flex better than any stock truck on the market. Period. It can drop the front tire (a 37") almost a foot below the cab. It is a 3 link design front and rear with only a panhard rod and trailing arms to locate the axle (think SG 3-link for you Rover guys). The ladder frame is designed to flex side to side in a controlled way about 15 degrees to improve articulation. I've got a pic of a 404 driving across a 5ft deep, 3 ft wide trench and keeping 4 wheels down the entire time.


It has 2, 16 gallon tanks with a fuel cut over. It can carry a CJ in the bed and still wheel Pritchett. Adding more power is a recipe for trouble. If you want speed, buy something else. The mog is all about gearing. Wanna see it work? I've got video of a 120HP mog pulling 600 tons of train around the trainyards of Germany. The seats are terrible. The truck is loud. It leaks when it gets rains.

The spare parts situation is great for these trucks. There are over 15 parts suppliers in the US alone, plus Canada. New engines are $1500 from the factory, trannys are $1300. Complete axles are $1100, including the hydraulic locker mechanisms. The entire cab assembly is $800. You can get any part overnight if you want to pay for shipping. That's different for you domestic truck and Toy/Nissan guys, but familiar for Rover owners. The carb doesn't starve at 50 degree sideslope or 50 degree up/down. The 404 has engine access panels in the cab so you can get to the engine from the front or the back. Engines don't break much, and neither does anything else. There is an onboard air compressor running on engine belt. Given a snorkle, the mog will safely ford 7+ feet of water and stay under it for hours.

Pricing. Unimog 404s can be had from private sellers for $6k or less. Dealer pricing depends on where you are, but in the southeast or northeast, the price is usually about $7k for one in daily driver condition with new rubber, brakes, seals, and a tune-up. Fully restored models average $9k-$12k. The mog can take up to a 42" tire without trimming.

Are they perfect? No, far from it. They are too wide for many trails. But on trails they fit on, there is nothing better for the money. Period. And anyone who tells me they can build a better truck for $7k, I say show me the reciepts. Even starting with a $1k Sammy, you'd have to fit 44s to get the same axle clearance, add the beefy axles, lockers, waterproof the ignition, add the snorkle, add the engine driven on-board air, and tell me what the bill is. Don't forget the bulletproof electrics, and 300+ mile range. Start this project with a CJ, a wrangler, or a 1/2 ton and you're halfway or more to the Mogs price before you get started.

-P

OHHH SHEIT IT"s Perrone!:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Originally posted by gunracer1
the mogs are one of the most bad ass rigs every produced. chad you don't now jack and quite padding:flipoff2: i can get one right now for 6k a 404 model, with some cage work and tires its ready to kick ass on the trail and still be legal on the road.

I was very bored that day sorry :D
Actually they are Ok... Just not 4 me.. I can see why some people like em though.. I was a lil harsh :D

Originally posted by Old Scout
WOAW A hell of a first post!

Welcome to POR! I happy to see a newbie in the know!:flipoff2:

Thanks for the first hand info!

Thanks for the welcome. I don't want to misrepresent myself. I am not a Unimog owner (until this coming Christmas), but I have been on the Mog mailing list for 5 years, have wheeled them and wrenched them. Fabulous truck.

I am on the POR board to learn from people actually WHEELING. I have a 91 Range Rover that is in the process of a major buildup, but will remain suitable for my DD. The Unimog will be a dedicated wheeling truck. I will buy a Pinzgauer when money allows. That is the best built and best designed truck in the world in my opinion. Not much on the rocks, but damn is it good everywhere else.

I'm interested in some of these extreme Jeeps, Toys, and domestic trucks. I want to know what's in them, under them, and how often they break. In 5 years on the Unimog list, I can count on one hand the number of times a truck could not be driven home after wheeling the same trails these extreme built trucks have gone. So I am looking for first hand info, and not magazine articles, or B.S. secondhand.

(and I love Scouts by the way!)

Some of the pictures here have changes my tune a little actually.. My problem Is that Ive been in wheeling in MUD all my life, Which of course requires a little more than 100 hp.. But as for the rocks it looks awesome.. Now HP on Rocks can be a bad thing, as my Drivelines have learned in the past...
Ill stick to Mud ya crazy fawkin rockcrawlers :flipoff2:

Originally posted by SCoach


Thanks for the welcome. I don't want to misrepresent myself. I am not a Unimog owner (until this coming Christmas), but I have been on the Mog mailing list for 5 years, have wheeled them and wrenched them. Fabulous truck.

I am on the POR board to learn from people actually WHEELING. I have a 91 Range Rover that is in the process of a major buildup, but will remain suitable for my DD. The Unimog will be a dedicated wheeling truck. I will buy a Pinzgauer when money allows. That is the best built and best designed truck in the world in my opinion. Not much on the rocks, but damn is it good everywhere else.

I'm interested in some of these extreme Jeeps, Toys, and domestic trucks. I want to know what's in them, under them, and how often they break. In 5 years on the Unimog list, I can count on one hand the number of times a truck could not be driven home after wheeling the same trails these extreme built trucks have gone. So I am looking for first hand info, and not magazine articles, or B.S. secondhand.

(and I love Scouts by the way!)

DONT TRUST HIM!! HE'S A SPY FROM THOSE RANGE ROVER GUYS!!
:flipoff2:

Welcome newb. GET IT!

Well, here in Ontario, i am pretty sure that they aren't street legal...

What makes you say that??
Why wouldn't they be street legal?
There are all kinds of Mogs used for forestry here and in BC.

Originally posted by SCoach
Well, after reading all this stuff, I thought I would toss in some facts to go with the common misconceptions. I will confine my discussion to the 404 (gasoline) model since its the cheapest and easiest to find.

The 404 has a center of gravity located in a plane about the frame axis. It's got better slope ratings than any jeep or Land Rover. its got an 82 HP engine and will do 65 flat out on the highway at sea level. Out in the Utah or Colorado, thats about 55. They suck on the highway. Enough said about that. Some call them ugly, some not. Not going there. Ok, on to the good stuff...

They have final gearing at 113:1 stock. The 20 speed in the 406/416 is unsuitable for crawling because the gears are not nearly as strong. Many owners have broken ther 20 speed boxes in Pritchett and other places. The 404 comes on 37" tires with portals. The axles are rated to about 70mph. If you push it too hard for too long, you'll burn them up. Tap the diff and install an oil cooler. That's what I intend to do.

The mog has a fully waterproof igniton and its electrically shielded. You could play an AM radio on top of the distrubutor. No more RFI filters for your CB or CD player. The engine will run underwater all day if you install the $45 snorkle. The entire drivetrain is sealed and pressurized. It will not take in water or dust. And you cannot scrape a driveshaft on a rock. It has 2wd, 4wd, and lockers F/R. All shift on the fly at ANY speed. It has no transfer case as it is always in low. The tranny is a stressed member unlike any other truck I have ever seen. The mog will flex better than any stock truck on the market. Period. It can drop the front tire (a 37") almost a foot below the cab. It is a 3 link design front and rear with only a panhard rod and trailing arms to locate the axle (think SG 3-link for you Rover guys). The ladder frame is designed to flex side to side in a controlled way about 15 degrees to improve articulation. I've got a pic of a 404 driving across a 5ft deep, 3 ft wide trench and keeping 4 wheels down the entire time.


It has 2, 16 gallon tanks with a fuel cut over. It can carry a CJ in the bed and still wheel Pritchett. Adding more power is a recipe for trouble. If you want speed, buy something else. The mog is all about gearing. Wanna see it work? I've got video of a 120HP mog pulling 600 tons of train around the trainyards of Germany. The seats are terrible. The truck is loud. It leaks when it gets rains.

The spare parts situation is great for these trucks. There are over 15 parts suppliers in the US alone, plus Canada. New engines are $1500 from the factory, trannys are $1300. Complete axles are $1100, including the hydraulic locker mechanisms. The entire cab assembly is $800. You can get any part overnight if you want to pay for shipping. That's different for you domestic truck and Toy/Nissan guys, but familiar for Rover owners. The carb doesn't starve at 50 degree sideslope or 50 degree up/down. The 404 has engine access panels in the cab so you can get to the engine from the front or the back. Engines don't break much, and neither does anything else. There is an onboard air compressor running on engine belt. Given a snorkle, the mog will safely ford 7+ feet of water and stay under it for hours.

Pricing. Unimog 404s can be had from private sellers for $6k or less. Dealer pricing depends on where you are, but in the southeast or northeast, the price is usually about $7k for one in daily driver condition with new rubber, brakes, seals, and a tune-up. Fully restored models average $9k-$12k. The mog can take up to a 42" tire without trimming.

Are they perfect? No, far from it. They are too wide for many trails. But on trails they fit on, there is nothing better for the money. Period. And anyone who tells me they can build a better truck for $7k, I say show me the reciepts. Even starting with a $1k Sammy, you'd have to fit 44s to get the same axle clearance, add the beefy axles, lockers, waterproof the ignition, add the snorkle, add the engine driven on-board air, and tell me what the bill is. Don't forget the bulletproof electrics, and 300+ mile range. Start this project with a CJ, a wrangler, or a 1/2 ton and you're halfway or more to the Mogs price before you get started.

-P

Uh sorry but you got a few things wrong here.

NO unimog models, including the fast axle ratio current models are
intended for high speed, sustained driving. They are designed for a 60mph speed (German law of 85km/h). Even a fast axle U1550L fire truck with the capability of 75mph would not see a response involving that speed longer than 30 miles.

404 drivetrains are not pressurized as you say(Not even an option, and owners attempts at doing their own conversions have resulted in bad leaking seals). Though the stock seals are very good on mog's, and keep water/debris out. Ibeleiver the water fording option(pressurized drivetrain among other things included) was not available until the 435.

Mogs do not have 3 links. They have a torque tube. The axle only hinges from the frame in 2 spots the torque tube at the transmission , and the Panhard bar. The two stabilizer bars toward the ends of the axle just connect to the torque tube to take allot of the leverage from the axle ends off of the pinion/slipshaft at the torque tube.

Many people who are into rockcrawling swap the 20 speed transmission into their Mogs if if they do not have it. It is considered by some to be the best transmission available.

Sean

I didn't read everypost in this thread, but I didn't see any photos of the Maxi-Mog. Have you guys seen this thing? It's like the off-road version of the Batmobile with all the "accessories" that are available for it!

Here's a photo, but you really have to go to their site and check out the available options.

Specs (http://www.maximog.com/specs.html)

http://www.maximog.com/images/sublevel/veh_side.jpg

Originally posted by Mark '73 FJ40
What makes you say that??
Why wouldn't they be street legal?
There are all kinds of Mogs used for forestry here and in BC.

Well, it's second hand knowledge...
A guy i know checked into it with the Ministry of Transportation and found that they aren't street legal as they are. I have no idea what amount of work/money it would take to get them legal either.
Like i said, 2nd hand knowledge....
But the thing is, most of the criticisms about the Mog are it's power and highway drivability, or lack thereof... That's the sacrifice you make when you want a crazy trail rig. I mean, when someone gets a nice new set of 44" Boggers, do they say "And these will really help the highway ride!!"
I don't think so......
If it is expected to be kickass on the trail, it should be expected to be pretty shitty on the road.

And Explorer, did u see any prices for that Maximog??
Probably "a little" more than an old military mog. :D :D

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Station
[B]

Uh sorry but you got a few things wrong here.

NO unimog models, including the fast axle ratio current models are
intended for high speed, sustained driving. They are designed for a 60mph speed (German law of 85km/h). Even a fast axle U1550L fire truck with the capability of 75mph would not see a response involving that speed longer than 30 miles.


Thank you for this correction. I suppose I should not have represented that Unimogs are high-speed operation over long distances, but you are cutting them far too short. If you have a look at the Paris Dakar rally any year for the past Here we see Unimogs running for 10-15 hours per day on and offroad for weeks. I wouldn't recommend that for most owners, but it seems to be possible given this clear evidence of use.


404 drivetrains are not pressurized as you say(Not even an option, and owners attempts at doing their own conversions

That's strange. Perhaps they aren't on the 404. I'll have to review my owners manual.


very good on mog's, and keep water/debris out. Ibeleiver the water fording option(pressurized drivetrain among other things included) was not available until the 435.

I am quite sure there is a fording kit for the 404. It was a requirement for military spec. I can give you a part # if you like.


Mogs do not have 3 links. They have a torque tube. The axle only hinges from the frame in 2 spots the torque tube at the transmission , and the Panhard bar. The two stabilizer bars toward the ends of the axle just connect to the torque tube to take allot of the leverage from the axle ends off of the pinion/slipshaft at the torque tube.

You are absolutely correct. I apologize for any confusion. But the point was that they are VERY flexible, and they are.


Many people who are into rockcrawling swap the 20 speed transmission into their Mogs if if they do not have it. It is considered by some to be the best transmission available.

I know several owners of 416s who disagree. And I've got video of the 20 speed blowing up in Pritchett, while other trannys troopered on with no problem. Contact Eric Johnson (a 416 owner) at johnson@pectre.com about this issue.

-Perrone

Originally posted by The Adam Blaster
And Explorer, did u see any prices for that Maximog??
Probably "a little" more than an old military mog. :D :D

My understanding is that it was slightly over $1M in development and manufacture.

-P

check out maximog.com

Johnathan

Originally posted by SCoach


My understanding is that it was slightly over $1M in development and manufacture.

-P

Yeah like i said, it's the off-road equivalant to the Batmobile... and that wasn't cheap either :D

That's on my list of wants when I win the 60 million dollar lottery.