go here and sign http://www.petitiononline.com/pjibjjlj/petition.html


Thanks :cool:

O and yes it well be spelled right before it is sent
Thanks

got my sig.............
:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: NEWBIE:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

signed---up to 167 sigs

#170 , dont need one but ill help out.:usa:

................Signed...............

#177

i signed #217

243

If yall get a chance eamil that link to pepole you noe that might be intreasted i want to ge tthe sig's up before i fix it and send to msd
Thanks

ok i finally clicked the link and are you on crack? what the hell would you do with a msd for a 1.3 or a 1.6? it won't do anything. this is probably why they don't make it. what are you trying to accomplise with it? the advance curve on these distributors is fine and you will not get anymore hp out of it. if you want more power do a motor swap or add some nitro. 20% should do it. i have a dyno and i used it to check just about every tweak known that is cheap and i got 38 hp at the rear tires with 5.39's and a 4.12 t-case. so start measuring and buy a motor. stop with the petition because your couple hundred signatures are rediculous to msd. the are no going to make a dist for a sammy even if you got 10,000 signatures. it would be a wast to them to sell a dist for a couple hundred dollars and then here everyone say " i bought a dist from msd and it do shit" that would be bad for business. now if you are just doing this for post to get off the newbie status then fine but please stop the madness

I dont think so. Aprently you dont no what the hell your talkin about Humm lets see did you now MSD makes a dist for a VW or for a fact they make about 10 other 4 clinder dist for forign vechiles ? And i Dont give a fly flip if you have 2 roller dynos HAVE YOU EVER TESTED A MSD DIST ON A SAMURAI ?????????? NO I DIDNT THINK SO SO HOW DO YOU NO IT WILL NOT HELP ????????PLAIN AND SIMPLE YOU DONT ! AND I ALREDY HAVE KIT BUILT AT the NOS FACTORY FOR 1.3 IF YOU DONT WANT TO SIGN IT DONT BUT dont come here and say Im on crack and that the advance curve for a stock dist is just fine WHOSE THE NEWBIE apartnely YOU ARE!

And msd stated that they would consider building it if they new there was a market for them

AND IF YOU WANT TO DEBATE THIS MORE HERES MY EMAIL ADRESSES I WOULD HATE FOR YOU TO THINK I WAS TRYING TO CHANGE A STUPID STATUS THAT I COULD GIVE A FLIP ABOUT!dparker@grnco.net

Originally posted by suzuki w/the HEAT
ok i finally clicked the link and are you on crack? what the hell would you do with a msd for a 1.3 or a 1.6? it won't do anything. this is probably why they don't make it. what are you trying to accomplise with it?


hey a$$ whip, have a little respect................:flipoff:
if he wants one and needs other peoples help then thats what we are doing, if you think its not a good idea SHUT UP!!!!!!

Originally posted by suzuki w/the HEAT
now if you are just doing this for post to get off the newbie status then fine but please stop the madness

I am Newbie, He's a Newbie, we're a Newbie
Dont you want to Flame a Newbie 2?

lay off the zuki in heat ;) he get's flamed like everytime he opens his mouth.. remember the .250 dom roll cage thread? flame on :D

ok your right your msd for a 1.3l is a good idea. you should maybe hit the 41hp range with that bad boy. so petition on. hey next you should petition bush for federal funds to somalia. ha you might want it but why? msd is just to nice to say hell no you little hp man. and what is wrong with the stock dist anyways? nothing absolutly nothing. i bet you have a damn msd coil on your chevy hei also, right? have you read the write ups on this stuff? I don't think so. no hp improvements at all. so please explain what is wrong with the stock dist? let me guess you also want the master blaster coil for the 1.3l 38hp vehicle. you probably run the high performance autolitle platinums in the little engine that could. dude come awn now it is what it is and if you don't like the power then swap the motor. i put a header,2.5" exh,high flow cat and super turbo muffler, and got no hp gains on the dyno at all. i will however continue on my quest to help you get off newbie status so go ahead and respond and then i will and so on. pretty soon you'll get some respect.

hey that is a good point.... why? but anywho let the flames of war fly! :D

Hey Heat
Do you know the difference between a horse tail and you with a tie on?

Horse tail covers the whole a$$hole!!!




Flame suit on........

Why do you keep Digin youself iN Hole so your tellin my a header and exust want give any improvent either ? and msd igtion and coil will not help the ightion fire hotter???WHERE ARE THIS RIGHT UPs PLEASE POST A LINK???????

ALL I CAN SAY IT GET A NEW DYNO OR LEARN HOW TO RUN THE DAMN THING!:nuke:

AND FOR THE RESPECT heres my respect to you :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff:

i'm not trying to burst anyones bubble but i want to tell you this won't increase performance at all. if you look at msd's stuff they state an increase in %. this is % in relation to hp. 5% of 38hp is ???????? nothing. this is on vehicles that they can modify the advance curve on. 1.3 not having any problems with this can't benifit from a MSD!!! please please tell me oh technical one what is wrong with the advance curve? you do know there is a 12mm bolt that actually adjust the timming. ya this will not adjust the curve but you still don't get crap even from moving the timming to 14. so how do you expect to get a increase out of adjusting the curve? advance curve is compiled from mechanical advance and vacuum. you can adjust the mechanical by the springs and you can adjust the vacuum by a bled off knob on the dash. BUT WHY??????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????? 40hp??????????????????? swap motor. i'll even be cool and find you a motor for cheap just because you r a fellow samurai dude. 2.3l ford? 4.0 ford? 2.4 toyota? 4.3l chevy? but you have to stop the msd madness???????? no, I'm just rambling facts so don't mind me but if you really want one you should probably contact dui. davis unified ignition. these guys build cool shit. stock gm hei stuff to fit just about anything. these guys are a smaller company so they would probably be more apt to help you. but you will not be happy with the increase for the $$$$$$$$$$$$. so good luck. and if you can tell me what is wrong with the stock advance curve i will sign your potition. actually i will but 100 people on it. guarenteed. but you have to prove what is wrong with the stock dist and how a msd will improve flaws in the old dist.

it's gittin good now :flipoff2: just from a non biased point of view.... my header and exhaust made a big difference... and i didn't need a dyno to tell me ;)

ok smack talker. fire the ignition hotter. you probably fall for that stupid guy at the swap meet with the inline SPARK BOOSTER. you most not know how ignition systems work. you can have 100,000 volts and not get any increase over the stock 25k. the reason they run hei and dis systems with HOTTER SPARK is so they can run a leaner intake charge to increase hp without a missfire. if you want a hotter spark GAP THE PLUGS WIDER. go to school and then tell me i'm wrong. if you want to drive down here with your msd ignition i'll prove it on my dyno. oh ya you have to bring someone to operate it though because i keep getting no increase in power on a fucking lawn mower motor. i have a damn go cart with a 20hp brigs on nitro that makes more power than a damn samurai. i love sammys but the motors suck. i admit they suck and i own 4 with stock motors. first step to recover is to admit the problem. so go ahead and admit you are way over your head on this and then we can strt over and i can give you mesurements so you can swap the motor. either deal with the no power issue or swap the motor. you can't hop up the 1.3l. the only thing i"ve seen that works on these is the paxton super sharger wich is good for about 15-25hp for $2500. or nitrous,nitro,or carb.

Plain and simple the stock dist was not deisned to see a cuve over 6500 rpm and i no people that push there motors to 7000 to even 9000rpms THAT WELL NOT KEEP A relibale spark at that rpm.
MSD well redo the cap and roto for Improved cap and rotor aligniment . and have you grabed a 1.3 or 1.6 dist an wigled it? that cause's incorrect alignment which means less HP but your dyno probaly woundl pick that up beacuse aprrently it doenst do much but take space up.O now i see its a Lawn Mower Dyno Thats Why it Doesnt work on Zuks!:nuke:
And they use fast magnetics feild coil in all there dist . which is better for use that are running Msd 6 boxes and coils. AND THERES A thing CALLED LONGER spark DURATION herd of it ??:flipoff2:

Email me dparker@grnco.net we will talk but im not replying to anymore of your BS beacuse you dont no what your talkin about And i dont want to make your image look any worse!!!!!!!

hahahaha...:flipoff2: suzuki w/ no need for ignition heat. YA, and when I put an MSD ignition box on my 350 I noticed no difference in power......right! I would buy one if they made it. If the msd products didn't do anything no one would buy them you dumb ass! Stop being so damm stuborn, or go stick your thornbirds in your ass and keep your:rainbow: opinions to your self.

#259! Almost there

what i said is msd products give a increase in hp in a percentage. so 5% of 40hp is nothing and 5% on a 350 chevy with 200hp is alot more noticable. and for yo non spillers i cat no respon 2 yo iliterice. i under a typo but if someone has to read it 5x and then say wtf it is not even worth looking at. so please enable the "spell checker" i can't speak ebonics so please use the thesarus and type slow.

what the hell are you talking about with a 9000 rpm samurai?????????????? wtf. and how much advance does a msd have from 6000rpms to 9000rpms?????? well none! and as far as some wierd disalutional theory about longer duration. what the hell would that do with a stock cam and and 40hp???? nothing. next you'll say to put a longer rod in the 1.3 to keep the piston in the combustion chamber longer. still maybe 41hp. look out!!! that is sheer raw horsepower. this is why my name is suzuki with the heat. it is a joke suzuki's aren't fast and i was being a smart ass. and wtf is a fast magnet?? it still has a damn magnetic pick-up. the samurai has a magnetic pick up and so does the msd. you have no idea about ignition systems and should really stop while your behind. maybe you should put more magnets on your coil to improve coil saturation???????? stop running to your mothers fridge it was a joke it won't work... oh and the other thing, the lawn mower is being refured to as samurai motor. so maybe we should use a hall effect, or how about a optical pick-up. the unilite that was a piece of work. needs a resistor because it can't work with the standard 12v. $70 for a module. stock stuff is at all the auto parts and if your msd breaks on the trail you'll have to put in the reliable stock one

God help me, but I can't stop myself from posting on this.

Does the term " Power to weight ratio" ring a bell? Anything that improves this ratio is good, eh? As long as the cost vs. benefit equation is in line.

If a mod produces 10 HP on a 200 HP motor, that is a good thing. So, the same mod makes 2.5 HP on a 50 HP motor, it is no longer a good thing? I really feel like a dumbass, I got a Thorley header for $100 from Rudezuk and thought that was great.

Seems like 5% is still 5% to me.

If your zuk is only running 40hp then YOU have a problem unless it is an older model 2 stroke. I had 64hp when I installed my STOCK engine. I have done a few other mods to it and I am now running 75-80 hp. :flipoff2:
There are people on this board that are running over 100hp with a 1.3 and NO superchharger and NO nitrous and NO turbo. When you add a percentage of hp no matter how small to a samurai it is noticable.
BTW gears do not give you more horsepower:rolleyes: Lower gears will help you utilize your power and torque alot more. :rasta:
FYI: I run 33" tires on steel wheels with NO gearing changes what-so-ever and drive 65mph on I-15 in 4th gear 3200RPM. Factory zuki engine w/some tweaking, stock carb and stock airbox. These little engines are the sh*t as far as I'm concerned. I can constantly run 7grand and beyond if I wanted to with NO ill effects. My sami pulls HARD from 3500 on up. So There.
If you do not want to spend the money to upgrade your zuk then by all means DON"T do it.
Hotter spark means better combustion which means more power. :bounce2:

Next please.

Look!!! I'm a newbie posting to tell you that I am signature #260.
Shame on me. Jackass:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Yeah, I signed before I even got on the "mean" board!

Did i say i was running a stock cam ? NO !!! THere is nothin stock about my motor There is alot of people on this board that can make fun of my typo's But You Do Not No ME !!! SO YOUR JUST SHOWING HOW MUCH OF A CHILD YOUR ARE AND LIKE TO MAKE FUN OF PEOPLE .Im still waitng on those right ups?????????
So your saying your FULL OF $H!T then right??? you just said a few post ago NO HP GAIN AT ALL NOW YOUR GOING BACK ON YOUR WORD???????????


IM going to start a new Petition ! HOW MANY PEOPLE THINK SUZUKI WITH THE HEAT IS A IMMATURE ASS THAT LIKES TO OPEN HIS BLOW HOLE AND DIG HIMSELF A GRAVE EVEN MORE!!???????

hey heat

what are these words???

accomplise?
Rediculous?
iliterice?
wast?
alot?
Awn?
absolutly
benifit?
timming?
noticable?
timming?
missfire?
i"ve
ya?
strt?
mesurements?
guarunteed?
pottition?
respon?
spillers?
wich
super sharger?
refured?
theasaurus
wierd?
disalutional?

Its all your misspelled SHIT!!!! :nuke: if you going to call someone illiterate and tell them to get a dictionary. and type slow. a thesaurus gives you synonyms and antonyms
YOU BETTER MAKE SURE YOUR SHIT IS SPELLED RIGHT THE FIRST TIME TOO!!!!!!!!! :flipoff: :flipoff: LMFAO AT YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:flipoff:
I NO IM NOT THE BEST SPELLER IN THE WORLD BUT IT TAKES 1 TO NO 1 APPARENTLY IM STILL LMFA OFF AT YOU BOY!!!!!!!:flipoff:

I only know a couple of those words:

accomplise /a-calm-pliss/=Someone dat hep you do sumpin' wrong.

pottition /pott-ish-un/=A guest list you pass around for people to sign to organize a party to get...."refured"

refured /ree-furd/=See "Up in Smoke"

theasaurus /the-a-sar-us/= Prehistoric book for finding words that sound different but have the same meaning. May be found on shelves everywhere but are little used anymore because the computer is equiped with one. -see Theasaurus Rex

:D :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :D

caint we all jiss gittalong???

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Right on d.

Ya know heat.

You can regurgitate all kinds of technical information, and you talk a good talk. We call those types of talkers in the motorsports world the bench racers. They have never lost a race from the grand stands, because that is where they are always sitting.

You talk about the minimal gains in MSD, and then recommend something like Nitro, that has to be mixed in relation to atmosphere conditions, and changes in its needs throughout the day? On top of beign a dangerous additive, your jetting needs so many changes, and has to be exact, that you would spend more time jetting and rejetting than you would wheeling.

You talk about only being interested in HUGE engine gains, but completely dismiss the little ones as waste?. MSD is a very reliable distributor and ignition system. Have you ever watched a distributor on a machine? Have you seen how unstable a stock distributor gets at rpm, even race prepped and curved? If you truly own a dyno and are expecting to make a go at it in the world of performance parts and engines, you are way to quickly dismissing the over all gain that can be seen in all of the small details. Its the little things that end up making the difference. Not the latest new gismo advertising 200 added horsepower. The reason MSD's gains are so small is because they are honest reflections of what a race or performance dis. will give an engine. Then again you probably bought that Tornado gismo that goes under your air filter maybe?

In all of these posts, I never noticed DParker trying to say he was trying to build the fastest 1/4 sami to ever be seen. To me hes wanting a very well known manufaturer to build a part for his application. From how you speak, you appear to come from a drag racing back ground. If im correct, then it appears your trying to use that type of technology in a completely different environment, and alot of it just doesnt cross over. You can rattle off abunch more text and flashy dyno blah blah blah, but a good solid reliable engine is what Dparker is trying to build.

No matter how much you insist, you just wont get me to trade a winch for a parashoot. Ive noticed that they always seem to come back on a hook. I may or may not respond to any more of your posts. I dont have a burning desire to try to show my infinite knowledge on the internet. No matter what the engine is, it can be improved on. Im always interested in ways to build something better, and make it perform better than it was designed to be. Actually now that I think about it, I was never impressed with Dyno numbers that much anyway. Ive seen alot of dyno racing as well, and it still comes down to the little things at the track making the difference.

Jim

Amen, my brother:D I'll take one of those MSD distys if they make 'em.

i said rear wheel horse power! not motor hosepower. and 100 hp 1.3l with natural asperation? i don't think so. maybe with 15to1 compression on alky. and yes i have several years of experience with drag racing and alot more experience with stock slightly modified street cars. and as to the msd with the vw, ya but i seen 650hp vw cased motors. ever seen a 150hp samurai motor. if you have i'll eat my words. these motors are just not upgradeable. sammmy's are cool stock but suck modified. and yes gears do change the horsepower output. they do not change motor horsepower but they do change rearwheel horsepower. so i said 40hp at the rear tires. and having about the standard 25% loss going thru the trans and rear axel and probably an additional 10% for the 33 sx's would equate to about 54hp from the motor. the dyno doesn't lie. it's funny how i can turn the head lights on and get a hp reduction, but i must not know how to work it when it comes to the header and k&n air filter. you may get a hp increase from a header and muffler but you probably had a cat come apart and create a partial restriction in the muffler and as soon as you put a flowmaster on it hauls ass.
as for the msd reliability i can't say they have a bad product because they don't. they are far superior with the c&c milled shafts and nice tight bearings. but like you said drag racing is totally different than a street rig. so why would you put a racing distributor in a street rig with 40hp? and no one ever stated what is wrong with the stock distributor? ya i wiggled one. so the shaft is a little worn. you put a msd in for 150,000 mls and 16yrs and what are you going to have. worn shaft! so does it mean if the shaft is worn that it is worn out? no that is why they have tolerances. so you should probably put a couple of extra tensioners and guides on the timing belt to then because it does run the cam wich does run the dist. have you ever seen a timing belt that is 2' long at 6000rpm let alone the samurai masters 9000rpm (so he says). not only does it have masive amounts of deflections but it actually streaches with enough spring pressure and a fast rev. and for mister hot rod 9000rpm samurai, do you have valve springs with like 150lbs on the seat? this would be a double spring and unless your running a fat washer under the spring or cut the seat to except bigger diamater springs you must be lieing!
and how often do you see a 20yr old msd with the same original parts? never. how often do you see stock samurai dist from the early 80's with original parts? all the time. wich also covers the reliability phrase that was also thrown out there. i rather have a stock distributor anyday for a stock motor or even mild modified. if you guys want the msd then sign the petition but i was just warning the average joe that thinks his samurai is going to do a wheel stand after he puts a msd in. and by the way a dyno may not show any horse power gains but the way to check a ignition pattern is on a oscilliscope. and i have one of those to. and yes i've seen a msd and a new stock dist side by side and i didn't notice anything that is going to increase hp. if there is a problem with the stock dist buy another reliable stock unit and you don't have to worry about it. or even just a new magnetic pick up. and ya we determined we are not drag racing so why do you need 1hp for $300 (adverage msd $) ? I'm trying to say the msd for $300 and 1hp if you advance your timing from stock location is not worth it. just move your stock dist a couple of degrees and you'll notice the same thing. when you take off from a light is the pedal on the floor? probably yes because you have a samurai, the only advance being used is mechanical advance so what do you wish to accomplise with this msd? i know how about a magneto locked a 39deg. OPEN YOUR EYES IT'S A SAMURAI. :eek:

:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :crybaby2: :crybaby2: :crybaby2: :bender: :bender: :bender: :laughing: :rolleyes: :confused: :p

heat, im guessing you got some sorta GMC or Chevy right? (plus however many zuks ya got)
Thats cool, but what your saying, is you put a header, exhaust and whatever else on your engine, and you got no increasE? well, maybe some zuks are different... cuz my bro put in DT header + 2" exhaust with 3 chamber, point is, this things need back pressure,

lots of people think straight through is always better, but seems these zuk engines need plenty of back pressure cuz bro went with straight through cherry bomb + exhaust bigger than 2" (dont remember) and said it was gutless, then went back and got what he has now, and it feels ALOT better. sure it may not have gained alot of hp, but it FEELS better. and sometimes its not what the Dyno says, its what you say, ya know?

anyways, its not just one dist, its the whole compilation of mods (ya stock zuks rock, but mods make em BETTER! thats why WE DO THEM! :rasta: )

anyways,,, im just a newbie waitin for my thumbs up (or bird):flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

I have never had the chance to put the Zuk on the Dyno but I swear my is faster every time I wash and wax it. Has anyone had the same results? I'm going to start a petition...:flipoff2:

Hey fatkid I know a vendor that sells chrome valve covers. He claims it give 30hp. Hmmmmmmmm how about a group buy on those? I'll think about it.








formerly:jp008

I would run a chrome valve cover...:flipoff2:

well lets see. 130hp suzuki motors. think there was a 1300 hp suzuki motor that did pikes peak.. and why is it a motor cycle can have 120hp without any problems? I see allot of smoke but no fire(pun intended) what motor you have in your rig there heat?? or do you actualy have a sami?? bet your one of them there sac. rednecks who dont wheel but just has a rig that looks like it does..

you telling me you actually own a dyno?
what shop do you work at?? or is this a personal dyno??

dont actually know of too many dynos in sac. know of a couple further up north.. and i seriously doubt you even know what the dyno readings mean..

or is this thing a desktop dyno? HAHA yes there are a couple 130hp sami morots out there. oh and did you knwo they make superchargers for these things??

not too many 1/4 mile stretchs on the trail..

gears do not change horsepower period. you cant change they type of power you are talking about and why would you want to? I like to crawl slow and easy and be able to tach my r's to 7 grand when on the highways.. and yesi have a stock motor besides a carb and yes i do tach 7 grand even 8 at times.. and a better disty wil improve spark and advance. do back to playing desktop dyno and tell us how you built a runner for the 1/4 stretchs of the con. thats right you dont wheel haha

Gotta get my $.02 in here.....
Let's see....at last count, it was nearly 300 for....and 1 against.

I too have a background in drag racing(on the street!!:rolleyes: ). Call me crazy, but any time I ran a power adder, I upgraded the ignition first. Nitro, nitrous, turbos, blowers, are all unstable, if not downright dangerous(try an ignition misfire on a roots blower:nuke: ) without an accurate ignition!
Anyone with a REAL background in drag racing knows every little bit counts....races are won, and lost in 100ths of seconds!
Speed(power) is a question of money....how fast(powerful) can you afford to go....sorry you can only afford 40hp:flipoff2: !
Goot is right about the exhaust too....you can't put 2.5" pipe on a 1.3 4cyl...unless you are gonna' be reving 12000 rpms.
Building a motor isn't about putting on the biggest parts you can find....you gotta' actually use that dyno!!!!

I'll take an MSD dizzy for my Sammy(I'd really like to see a crank trigger setup, so I can run the Swift DOHC 1.3 easily! Put some nitrous on that!!) you can keep your 100000 mile stocker.
Sorry about your luck.......
:mad3: :mad3: :mad3:

Does anyone know if washing your Zuk makes it go faster? How about the chrome valve cover? I don't have a dyno, or a dynosaur...:( :flipoff2:

Why don't you ladies Put NOS on this:bender:

fatkid

actually i had NOS build be a fogger kit at the factory for mine just have never put it on beacuse of the :nuke: factor LOL! but its only a 25hp shot so maybe it will:nuke: or maybe it want LOL! i will put it on 1 of these days. It being a fogger kit i have to drill and tap 4 holes in my intake right buy each cylinder so when ever i pull my head for some reason it will be installed.
If any budy want the part# to build 1 to order it i hvae it here handy.

i dont run painty anymore, just pure axle grease. i picked up .5 s on my quarter mile time. wash that sucker and grease it up. and have you ever tried to turn your tire when your brakes are dragging, i grease up my brakes too:rasta: you can never have too much grease on one vehicle!!!:nuke: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: screw that ingntion upgrade stuff, i just pop off the cap and fill it full of that di-electric grease and pop it back on, it helps the rotor to turn smoother and that di-electric grease helps the sparks get between the cap and the rotor better:smokin: grease is grrrrrrrreeeeaaaaaaattt

Now see that's info I can use!! Who would of thought that you could gain .5 in the 1/4 with some of the slick stuff...:D

now that we have determined that mr 808 cann't read i will continue. i said to make it reliable stay stock. now, msd is not stock. and what do you want pics of my shop with the dyno????? and i don't work for a shop i own 1! and if you think there is very few dyno's in sac. you are crazy. we smog cars on dyno in sac! there is over 300dyno's in sacramento so you should check it out befor you speak. and actually i have 2 dyno's. esp wich is a mustang dyno and a snap-on. and as far as the exhaust goes you are only partial right. yes you can run 2.5" exh. no you don't need back pressure. this is the lamest thing i've heard. if you need back pressure in the exhaust you would have to have a variable size pipe or restriction. if you have 1lbs at 2000rpms what would you have at 9000rpm's? something like 6lbs. and then the carb will not work. the exhaust problems you are refuring to is called the scaviging effect. it ONLY refurs to the lenght and size of the collector not the pipe. you should be asking questions not posting your stupidity. and 8000rps is very easy with a sammmy because the stroke is so short. but you are not making any power after 4500rps so why??? and have you ever heard of valve float? you must have super dumaflotcy valve springs. you guys are talking race with this msd crap and like i said i was talking about a reliable trail rig and i was asking why would you want to put a msd in a reliable trail rig. it is supposed to be reliable not fast. my exact point. and my sammy has a header on it with 2.5" exhaust and yes i changed the size from 1.75,2",2.25 and 2.5 and no difference. i didn't do it to see i just changed it for different sounds and when i changed my t-case mounts. this is it for motor. never had any problems and mine runs at 6000rpms. and as far as not wheeling,I DON'T THINK YOUR CALLING ME OUT BECAUSE THAT WOULD MEAN WE CAN GET IT AWN!

I don't know if anyone here has ever heard/ seen a 1.3 Suzuki Swift GT motor.........
twin cam head.....
Those suckers can twist up to near 10,000 rpm no problem
they are factory rev- limited at @8000

the stock Distributor has no problem firing the mill
but then it drives directly coupled to the exhaust cam

the Suzuki Sami drives on a Worm gear from the cam......
I think that any benifits you would gain from a billet aluminum Distributor housing would be negated by the stock distributor gear housing flexing.


I will however personally vouch for the benifits of the MSD 6a 'spark box' I notices a huge improvement in my old -ass LC 2F six when I hooked that sucker up.......

BTW you guys know that you have to drain and fill the Suzuki Sami distributor gear drive seperatley from the engine ..... the oil in there is not shared with the rest of the engine..........I know of a lot of trucks where they are running the oil that came from Japan in 1988.....never changed......

Originally posted by CRO
BTW you guys know that you have to drain and fill the Suzuki Sami distributor gear drive seperatley from the engine ..... the oil in there is not shared with the rest of the engine..........I know of a lot of trucks where they are running the oil that came from Japan in 1988.....never changed......

all the ones I have seen, get oil from the head, along with the fuel pump rod.....

when the O-ring goes out a ton of oil will slobber down the back of the motor.....

You have got to be kidding me, anyone who is serious about these engines already knows the kind of HP that you can get out of them and that is well in excess of 150.. the engine that you worked with must have not liked you... because you are a pig headed animal trough wiper... Flame on .. Flamer.... :D
:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:
So chill out, be happy with your station in life and have a :beer: on the rest of us

Hey fatkid dont know about the valve covers but just empty the ash tray ya pick up a extra 5hp

:roxy: lubs da zuk :roxy:

Originally posted by dparker
go here and sign http://www.petitiononline.com/pjibjjlj/petition.html

signed

Originally posted by Bill4rest


signed

me too....#72 beat ya to it....lol Pokie

Originally posted by Arizona Zuk


me too....#72 beat ya to it....lol Pokie

#39... hehehe:D

Originally posted by Arizona Zuk


me too....#72 beat ya to it....lol Pokie

I like to finish last LOL:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

150hp? ok i guess i've made my point. well i guess I'm done with this post since I'm not getting any serious responses now. so dparker much respect and i do see your point and i think you see mine now. so nice debate. and ya i've seen the 150hp gt swift and those things honk. i havn't seen the 10000 rpms but i'm sure they rev to eternity. completly different design but cool. just cut the back of the firewall to accomadate the dist. some guy in 4x4 mag had one installed and it looked good.

Okay....Dances w/ Stupidity said "nitro", and reliable trail rig in the same thread, and he thinks we are all stupid???
By the way Heat....is this yours???
http://bbs.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/53-684730-zukiwnoheat.jpg:barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf:

Wow....I'm impressed....Me and about 400 of my best friends will be at Zukimelt this year reving our poor little 40hp bastards to 9000rpm all day long...feel free to join us, and bring your dyno....we'll have a Zuki motor dyno shootout!!!
Cut your exhaust off at the head....you'll win for sure then!!!:flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff:

Why all the fighting? Can't you ladies and goats just love one another?:flipoff2:

Originally posted by CRO
BTW you guys know that you have to drain and fill the Suzuki Sami distributor gear drive seperatley from the engine ..... the oil in there is not shared with the rest of the engine..........I know of a lot of trucks where they are running the oil that came from Japan in 1988.....never changed......

the stock cam is hollow

oil could get into the distributor gear drive through it???

:: heat::

::with enough spring pressure and a fast rev. and for mister hot rod 9000rpm samurai, do you have valve springs with like 150lbs on the seat? this would be a double spring and unless your running a fat washer under the spring or cut the seat to except bigger diamater springs you must be lieing! ::

Unless your running roller, why would you even recommend 150 lb seat pressure springs? A fat washer under a spring? Coil bind? Have you checked to see how much room their is on a zuk head before you cut the spring pockets for your bigger springs. Now your nitro on your trail reliable rig is going to have exhaust temperatures that your thin casting cant handle for your cut spring seats.

Scavenging and back pressure are related, and NEEDED. The exhausts ability to pull the intake charge into the cylinder :: scavaging:: is directly related to the BACK PRESSURES ability to NOT let it out after the intake valve has closed, and the exhaust valve is still open. Getting the overlap and duration of your cam matched with the correct exhaust size and shape is what flow benches are for and DYNOS to verify. It is all DIRECTLY related to the complete performance of the engine. You are correct about the free flowing exhaust not hurting horsepower to a degree, but torque, which is what a wheeler needs, is very much effected by to much flow, and some of your intake charge going thru the cylinder, and out the exhaust, ie not enough back pressure.

The reason Dparker wants a RACE distributor on his engine, is because its been proven to be a PERFORMANCE and RELIABLE distributor. Parts are proven on the track, and unless he was wanting to put a 20 year old MSD dis on his zuk, I would still recommend a reliable performance part upgrade over a stock production part.

Heat you have a wealth of information. A lot of it doesn't readily cross over to wheeling, but im sure your going to have fun seeing what does and what doesn't. The guys here can speed your learning curve up quite substantially if you will listen. All of my back ground is from motorsports, particularly circle track. They have saved me a TON of time and money by showing me both what worked, and what didn't work for them.

A lot of what we do at our level is trial and error anyway. Thats half the fun of doing it. I would take a MSD new product any day over a brand new OEM piece. Each one of our rigs will be different, and their is more than one :: RIGHT:: ways to get there.

Jim

Originally posted by Arizona Zuk


the stock cam is hollow

oil could get into the distributor gear drive through it???

And the gear housing drains when you drain the oil in the oil pan???

or does the oil just sit in there?

Originally posted by CRO


And the gear housing drains when you drain the oil in the oil pan???

or does the oil just sit in there?

on most Zuks I have seen....it runs down the back of the engine......so it's refreshed daily.....lol

Originally posted by suzuki w/the HEAT
no you don't need back pressure. this is the lamest thing i've heard. you would have to have a variable size pipe or restriction.



:flipoff2:

I didn't bother reading every post in this thread after I heard HEAT crack his ass. If you've ever run a stock distributor into the ground and had to either (A) re-build it .. or (B) buy a factory replacement.. you understand that anything mechanical wears out and if you are going to dump $100+ on a stock distributor.. and that BRAND NEW MSD distributor is sitting on the shelf next to it.. with BALL BEARINGS (not bushing.. you know the difference?) .. all billet machined (sure you may not get more HP out of it.. but has consistent reliable timing ever been important to you?).. I know where my money would be going.

It's not always about horsepower jerkoff.

Originally posted by Arizona Zuk


on most Zuks I have seen....it runs down the back of the engine......so it's refreshed daily.....lol

So True!!!:D

uzi man has attached the image of mr wagons exh. you guys are not reading my post correctly. i was asking what he had in his motor to turn 9000rpms in a sammy. not telling him what to run in his truck to do 9000rpms. i was calling bullshit on his hotrod and not explaining how to build it. i said leave it stock. and ya if the msd was $100 i might buy it if mine went out but i can bet it will be at least $100. and ya torque is the key but yoiu havn't explained how the NONvariable exhaust pipe holds back pressure at 1000rps and at 6000rpms. plain and simple you can't. you would have to have a variable throttle plate. and the scaviging effect you talk about is completely wrong. scaviging is the header tube actually having a vacuum on it and when the intake and exhaust are bolth open and the primary header tube can scaving the intake charge into the cylender. this is exactly how they get away with not running egr valves on some vehicles. they change the overlap and lobe center to flow exhaust back into the combustion chambers and cool the cylinder. i wonder how many people are going to start on this one now. just to stop it befor it starts just look at the vw rabbit (early years). the n.o.x. levels are way down with no egr. this is developed around the scaviging effect. not the same but same theorys. they also have reverse flow coolant systems and the heads runs extreamly cool. with is good for low valve train temps and cooler cyl temps and ability to increase timing. i mean read to post i said nothing about do this to hop up the sammy. i said keep it stock the hole time. any thing i said about making it faster was a joke. if you think i was telling everyone to put nitro in there sammy but keep the stock dist then you have problems. it is called sarcasim. i was making a joke about performance increases ON THE MIGHTY 1.3L.

Scavenging and back pressure are related, and NEEDED. The exhausts ability to pull the intake charge into the cylinder :: scavaging:: is directly related to the BACK PRESSURES ability to NOT let it out after the intake valve has closed, and the exhaust valve is still open


isn't this called the exhaust stroke? hold the intake charge in the cylinder when the exhaust is open. this is the exhaust stroke. so after the intake has opened the piston comes up and compresses the intake charge and then the piston comes down and the exhaust valve opens. where does this back pressure in the primary tube come into play. i understand what u r trying to say but this is not related to the exhaust. it is the overlap of the cam.

This is some good shat, to bad I left my little 1.3L stock. But who cares it never has any problems.:)

You over exaggerate to try to prove your points, and then get annoyed when you are called on your exaggerations.

Snip from heat
:::uzi man has attached the image of mr wagons exh. you guys are not reading my post correctly. i was asking what he had in his motor to turn 9000rpms in a sammy. not telling him what to run in his truck to do 9000rpms. i was calling bullshit on his hotrod and not explaining how to build it. i said leave it stock. and ya if the msd was $100 i might buy it if mine went out but i can bet it will be at least $100. and ya torque is the key but yoiu havn't explained how the NONvariable exhaust pipe holds back pressure at 1000rps and at 6000rpms. plain and simple you can't :::

from http://www.suzukicycles.com/faq/set.htm

The Suzuki Exhaust Tuning (SET) system uses a butterfly valve in the exhaust system to adjust back pressure, effectively tuning the exhaust system for the best performance for the current driving situation. Digitally controlled by the same Electronic Control Module (ECM) that provides constant adjustment of the motorcycles fuel injection and ignition system, the SET valves is nearly closed at low engine RPM to improve torque and low-speed drivability. As the engine RPM increases, the SET valve progressively opens to reduce back pressure, thus improving mid-range and high-RPM performance. Another benefit of the SET system is reduced exhaust sounds, which permit the Suzuki engineers to fit a light weight exhaust muffler to the GSX-R1000.::

Now granted, its from a race bike, but, to use your terminology, plain and simple, it CAN be done. On a much simpler scale, you can use a supertrapp muffler to adjust back pressure on your exhaust system. Primary header tube size, and length, etc etc etc. You also state that it wont hold the same back preasure at 1000 and 6000 rpm, like its a huge revelation, but why would you want it to??? The engine wont be needing that much back pressure at that higher rpm anyway, and at that rpm, you dont WANT the back pressure....OH, wait, YOU were joking again huh?

snip from heat ::isn't this called the exhaust stroke? hold the intake charge in the cylinder when the exhaust is open. this is the exhaust stroke. so after the intake has opened the piston comes up and compresses the intake charge and then the piston comes down and the exhaust valve opens. where does this back pressure in the primary tube come into play. i understand what u r trying to say but this is not related to the exhaust. it is the overlap of the cam.::


Exhaust works in pulses, the back pressure isn't from the exhaust stroke of that particular cyl, its from the pulses of other cylinders, overlap, and tuned exhaust. You do know that intake and exhaust work in pulses? The exhaust valve opens NBDC of the power stroke, and the pressure from the power stroke is used to let expanding exhaust escape from the cylinder. This is what overlap is for. With the exhaust valve opening as the piston reaches BDC of the power stroke, the piston isnt using up as much horsepower pushing all of the exhaust out.

As the engine reaches TDC at the end of the exhaust stroke, the intake valve has started to open, and the exhaust nearing closed. With the exhaust valve not completely closed, and exhaust escaping the cylinder, a vacuum is created. This is the scavenging that you refer to. This vacuum PULLS the intake mixture into the cylinder, more than if the exhaust valve was closed completely, and relied solely on the piston coming down on the intake stroke to fill the cylinder. The exhaust pulses "back pressure" of other cylinders prevent, as much as possible, some of the intake mixture of fuel and air, from escaping with the exhaust, due to both valves being open while the piston is at or near TDC, and being wasted. The ability to get this all exact is where additional power can be found. When you get it right, you have more air/fuel than you would have had without the tuned exhaust and valve overlap. There is a lot more to this than throwing in a big cam, gap your plugs real wide, run big headers with 3 inch exhaust, mix 20% nitro, find a good stock distributor that doesn't wiggle, and an egr from a VW Rabbit.

Their are so many variables that I can ramble on all day. But actually it brings up the last point im going to make. And please no more lessons on the egr characteristics of Vw Rabbits.
For an experienced Dyno operator, you seem to forget one key thing from all of your ramblings, and it may be why myself and others have such a problem keeping up with your posts.

You have to have a baseline to get any reliable Dyno numbers. You don't have one. Or you change or move it to fit your arguments. If your called out as wrong, it was joking, or read wrong. You go into recommending nitro mixtures, and then its just joking. You advise to use a stock dis. on an engine you know nothing about? Without a baseline, Dyno numbers and changes cant be documented or be accurate. A Dyno doesn't make you any better of an engine builder, its just another tool laying in the box.

Jim

i thought such things like "equal length headers" and "1.25inch/1.5 inch/1.75inch primary tube diameters"
and so on had GREAT effects on back pressure, scavenging, etc.;) they are Very much related to the efficiency of an engine, IMHO
if you replace the exhaust primaries with different diameter headers or even change the length of them, you can drastically alter the characteristics of the engine, without touching the camshaft overlap.
to me, this is an example of how back pressure proves itself as helping (OR obstructing power, if it's incorrectly done) that's the whole point of the idea of variable exhaust- more back pressure at low rpm can make a better torque curve, because the amplitude of the exhaust pulses are being used to HELP scavenging.
take the average 2-stroke as an obvious example. muck about with expansion chamber volume/shape and you get big time proof that through proper manipulation of back pressure, power can be increased dramatically.
a lot of the car 4-stroke variable exhaust (valve train) technologies out now (V-tech and so on), are used in smaller, generally higher reving motors because you can accomplish basically the same thing as a header/collector variable or 2-stroke expansion chamber set up.
there's room in the valve cover for these miniscule change requirements, and are probably easier to maintain (ie none required) than pipe set ups, which can become recalcitrant from carbon build up, hot/cold cycles, structural impingement. (low curbs? :p
i'm not getting on your case Hotdude, and i have read your posts correctly, just it's difficult for me to hear such broad reaching statements like "aren't related" or "lame idea" .
small engines need lovin' too:D

Put mine on there too!

PEN25
"bet your one of them there sac. rednecks who dont wheel but just has a rig that looks like it does."



So are all of us Sac. guys rednecks that dont wheel.....
Pretty ballsy post for a newbie....:flipoff2:

I signed it, and me no own a Zuk.

Originally posted by Yota_san
I signed it, and me no own a Zuk.


............yet.:D but you will,you will.

*just look at the shiny light* *tick tock tick tock* *your eyelids are getting heavier* *you will get a 'zuk*

:evil: MUAHAHAHAHA.......:D

Originally posted by suzuki w/the HEAT

you must have super dumaflotcy valve springs.



dumaflotcy - Is that a word?

Damn if i could only get as many signatures as views this post has gotin LOL!!!!!!!!!!!:flipoff2:

He flames people about their literacy, and yet even his sig is misspelled.

Originally posted by RudeZuk
PEN25
"bet your one of them there sac. rednecks who dont wheel but just has a rig that looks like it does."



So are all of us Sac. guys rednecks that dont wheel.....
Pretty ballsy post for a newbie....:flipoff2:

Actually he has a pretty worthy trail rig. And he is going to Moab with one of his rigs. I can't remember the year but it's got Wrangler springs and a few other cool mods. He is only a newbie on this BBS. He knows what he is talking about when it comes to the zuki scene. I know him from another mailing list, he is a good guy.
One post doesn't (usually) reflect a persons attitude. I'm not trying to start ANOTHER war, I'm just giving you guys my opinion on this person.

my $.02

He may have made a POR newbie mistake but he will learn in time how this BBS is run.

"newbies aren't ALWAYS stupid" ----------- just sometimes

mr uzi seems to know exactly what he is talking about. and if you remember i said exhaust collecter length and diamiter wich is the same principles as you are refuring to. if you have a 2" inch pipe and a 1" collecter the exhaust is not going to flow like it has complete 2" exhaust. this collecter size is what you are refuring to as tuning the motor. and if you look the variable exhaust is right of the primary tubes (collector) it isn't on the back as a restriction( super trap)how is a super trap going to adjust back pressure in accorance with rpm? it would work the opposite way. you have alot of volume at high rpms so you would have high back pressure wich is not good. and low back pressure at idle. and you don't want backpressure, you want a primary collector that has proper lenght to create a vacuum. and by the way the valves open or close has no effect on the scaviging effect on the exhaust. but befor you start in on this listen!!!!!!!!!!!! the exhaust valve has to be open for the scaviging effect to operate effectivly. the pistons, valves and rotator splint have nothing to do with it. the scaviging in the cyl. all comes from the primary tube and the collector. the collector having one pulse at a time come out of it creates a vacuum on the other pipes with closed exhaust valves. and when the exhaust valve opens the vacuum FROM THE COLLECT helps pull the intake charge into the cyl.. so a overview, the #1 piston has just fired and it is now on exhaust stroke and pushing exhaust gasses thru the primary tube into the collector. air taking the least path of resistance goes out the collector into a free flowing 2.5" pipe. it now has created a vacuum in the 3 other primary tubes because of the size of the collecter and the legth. the next cylinder in the firing order has just cracked open the exhaust and now has a good vacuum on the exhaust side pulling the exhaust gasses out.after all the gasses are drawn out the exhaust valve is still open. now the intake has just craked open. and with a vacuum on on the primary tube it draws a partial amout of the intake charge out of the intake valve. (the amout of over lap the cam has is what determins the amount of intake charge to be drawn into the cylinder. ) and no the back pressure from the exhaust dosn't hold the intake charge in the cylinder. this is why huge overlaping cams (for high rpms) have extremly high pollutants coming out of the tail pipe at idle.( this next line is a joke) so in conclusion you are stating that a super trap will help hold the intake charge in the cylinder and the big over laping cams need small exhaust the the intake charge dosn't excape? (end joke) i understand what you are saying and we are going off on the wrong direction here. you do have extensive knowledge about how some of this stuff works but you are missing the big picture. I SAID IF YOU WANT TO INCREASE HP YOU SHOULD DO SOMETHING ELSE BESIDES A MSD DIST IN THE 1.3?L. this is where the funny dialect came from. nitro,nitrous,blower,turbo, and the ever popular dumaflotchy. (dumaflotchy: just a word that meens absolutly nothing. kind of like thingamagig) . now in all my statements i said why would you want to put a msd dist in a vehicle when you won't see any horse power increase over stock and then i said why change stock if you don't get anything. this is my resoning for blasting the petition. this is why i said if for some reason you want to hop up the mighty 1.3 add nitro. and one cup full per gas tank refueling with no other mods and i bet you get more hp than the msd distributor. ya it's not reliable but remember we all want the racing distributor on are 150hp,9000rpm,racing zuk motor. 9000rpm are not reliable.and what ever happened to this guy? what valve springs do you use? come awn lets open up a hole other thread on the 9000rpms,150hp 1.3 RELIABLE TRAIL RIGS! this is why i said add nitro these guys want to race their samurai's. they don't want reliable trail rigs. so i'm done here and mr toy all respect to you because you actually understsand. and you to mr 9mm. so if anyone post back to this I'm going to start a new thread that states " how to hop up the sammy for the wheeling trip." then we can all talk about how to get 150hp out of a sammy.(but why) reliable and stock and trail rig all go together

What did he say?? I was smoking crack during that thread:smokin: :flipoff2:

Originally posted by zuk88
What did he say?? I was smoking crack during that thread:smokin: :flipoff2:

"Ummmmmm...........nevermind"
a quote from my children and from every other person on POR that has kids.

Im getting better at following your posts heat, however my girlfriend is behind me prodding me to get off the puter and take her out for valentines day, so this one will be short.

I hope everyone is having a good valentines day by the way.

I do like the technical aspects of this discussion, as I always end up learning.

Here are a few quick things I wanted to add.

Snip heat :: how is a super trap going to adjust back pressure in accorance with rpm? it would work the opposite way. you have alot of volume at high rpms so you would have high back pressure wich is not good. and low back pressure at idle::

This is true of all mufflers, and all exhaust systems. The ability to change it, or adjust it, via the removal, or addition of disks, is what makes a supertrap adjustable to back pressure. Back pressure is the resistance or restriction of the exhaust flow. Your still looking at power from a WOT drag racing standpoint, instead of part throttle, lower rpm ranges.

Snip heat:: and you don't want backpressure, you want a primary collector that has proper lenght to create a vacuum::

This is probably true in the drag racing business, but unless you are at WOT 99 percent of the time, and especially at lower rpm, and on and off the throttle, back pressure to a degree is needed. Now granted im not talking about stock exhaust, cat, muffler, and small exhaust pipe, because all engines seem to respond to the bigger exhaust and less restrictive exhaust. But once you hit a certain point, on a low rpm engine designed for torque, free flow exhaust can start to effect low rpm part throttle performance.

The vacuum helps fill the cylinder more than it would have on its own from the intake stroke. But IF I can keep a larger amount of my intake charge that the vacuum pulled into my cylinder, than you can because some of your intake charge escaped thru your exhaust valve, Ive now got a larger volume of air/fuel to work with. This is where the benifits of scavenging, and back pressure come into play.

Snip heat:: and by the way the valves open or close has no effect on the scaviging effect on the exhaust. but befor you start in on this listen...the exhaust valve has to be open for the scaviging effect to operate effectivly. :::

We may be saying the same thing different ways, but if the exhaust has ANY effect in creating the vacuum, like you have stated, then the valves opening and closing, and WHEN in the cycle they do so HAS to have an effect on vacuum and back preasure.


Snip heat :: ( this next line is a joke) so in conclusion you are stating that a super trap will help hold the intake charge in the cylinder and the big over laping cams need small exhaust the the intake charge dosn't excape? (end joke

Its a good joke, but in reality, why would you install the big overlapping cam on restrictive exhaust? Alltho, this is the mistake I refered to in a prior post, about cramming in the big cam with a mismatched exhaust. The engine should be built to fit the needs and uses that its being used for. If your close on your cam selection, you can fine tune with exhaust, but if your way off to start with, these changes are just crutching a bigger problem. I do think this is where your drag racing tech is conflicting some with what wheelers engine needs are, and im sure my circle track tuning is as well. This is also why I stated that their is more than one way to do somthing right, and some of these guys that wheel all the time might find that we are both way off the mark.

In conclusion, IF the exhaust system has ANY effect on scavenging, as you have stated that it did, then the timing of when, how long open and closed, as well as how MUCH open or closed the exhaust valve is HAS to directly effect the amount of scavenging you get. It has to, as this is where the Exhaust primaries are getting their pulses and when.

I do enjoy the discussion alot more without the insults. I missed the humor in your first few posts, and DParker has alot of knowledge, and has a nice rig that he is building.

So much for this post being short, and yes she got mad and went into the other room LOL. Time to go get out of trouble!!
Jim

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Toywagon

"my girlfriend is behind me prodding me"

it's supposed to be the other way 'round....




"she got mad and went into the other room"

that's probably why i had a better valentine's day than you did
:flipoff2: just kiddin:D

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ive been off work over the weekend, and hadnt seen that. I needed a good laugh this morning.


Jim