1-The man made courses exceeded all expectations, and held up well against all abuse. Very very technical and rear steer friendly.
2-The "Wall of Death" was a gut check and I bet I hit 30MPH by the time I hit the bottom. I'm not sure what was worse going up or comming back down!!!
3-Becca was the 1st up the back side, and she has bigger Balls than most of the guys.
4-I saw Peter's / Nicks accident and could have sworn I witnessed the 1st fatality in Pro Rock Crawling. I'm sure the spotter's safety gets addressed before next season.
5-Numerous neck compression accidents. UROC will probably address overhead protection distance, and enforce shoulder restraint tension.
6-Randy Torbett, was ICE in the final and should change his name to "The ICE MAN"
7-Rockrunner Racing proved again to be the best team in in the field (all 4 rigs in the final)
8-Great spectator turn out and vendor runway.
9-Rumor has it, Joel Randall sold off Rig tractor and Trailor to a guy in Texas. I wonder what he will have in 2005?
10-I can't figure out why they did not use "The Wall" in the final.
11-I guess you can win the SC with a 3700lb rig that probably costs less than $10k!!!!(New Holland Tractor Axles, 4.3, Atlas ect) Heck, I don't think he has an aluminum part on the whole rig. However, I still can't figure out how the hell he made it up both sides of the Wall and why Tracy, Jon N, Larry ect did not try it. That would have been the difference in the championship.
12-A cold one goes out to all "SPOTTERS" who really are the unsung heroes in this sport. Good luck in the recovery Nick, we are all pulling for you.
13-The sport is on the right track and all teams better start looking for major sponsorship. I don't think we are to far from seeing Coke, Pepsi, Budweiser, HOME DEPOT ECT.
14-Great season and hope to see you all next year. Daren

I agree that the courses were techincal and a cool idea but if this is what our sport is going to then we all better be prepared for more injuries like what happened there. There is no other event I have ever competed in where the driver has the opportunity to get the car to 30 mph before attempting a stage. If there were actually rocks there on the courses instead of just gunite the driver would not have the opportunity to throttle down and jump anything or obstacle in 3rd gear or overdrive. Rollovers in the rocks usually stop on the side or top but not multiple revolution because the car has the chance to gain momentom down the steep gunite walls. Would have been nice to see alot of rocks there gunited into position instead of a skateboard park for 4x4s. If there were rocks on the climbs for traction maybe just maybe we would not have had to get the cars to 20mph to complete an obstacle. I think this was the most injuries I have ever seen at an event this weekend and the majority of them were related to the speed of the vehicle. I called to see how Nick was today and Nick and Pete are in my prayers tonight get well soon. Just my opinion so flame me if you wish.
Chris

Well Said!!!!!

I Agree, What happened to the boulder fields where tire placement meant something instead of throttle. The one thing I try to remember is that we are the ones driving/spotting not building or designing. I love this sport but I sure as hell don't want to die along with any of you (my rock family) getting hurt... I wish them the best of luck and a speedy recovery.
I'll be building a desert truck jumper/rock rig for next season if this keeps up!

Best event hands down. Best event site anywhere. Great job and great vision by the Uroc gang. I loved the concrete and can't wait to go back.


But.....3rd gear stages are gay ! It's called rock crawling. If you want to start jumping buggies then get a new name.

Someone will find a way to blame all this on spotter ropes or something like that. That's just shifting the blame. More people went to the hospital this weekend then the last 25 events combined. There is a lesson in all of this.

Speed kills. Especially when it's on concrete.

"There is a lesson in all of this"

be careful. next year we will all need 'certified' chassis, full fire suits, those full helmets with neck support, etc.. and it will be 100k just to get in.


there a fine line somewhere.. and once the dust settles, we may be able to see it.

No doubt this was a steping stone for our sport. Now that we know it will work we just need to change a few things and do it again. Possibly make it more technical (turns, cracks, cones, etc) and make the ski jumps a bonus. Dont get me wrong I would have loved to see Walker,Shannon, Becca launch over the summit. :D

Dan

first off congrats to team torbett!! and to randy himself, i've seen him compete several times at jellico for EROCC and UROC as well as a local comp here in VA - he rocks hands down.

i hate to say this, but after all of the 4 wheel drive deaths this year - its going to happen sooner or later if someone doesn't step up and do something - like the rebar issue out west. of course i don't want to see anyone get hurt, but people are pushing the limits of rig, driver and course design to the limits - is the sport really ready?

There is a lesson in all of this"next year we will all need 'certified' chassis, full fire suits, those full helmets with neck support, etc.. and it will be 100k just to get in.


dont get ahead of yourself there.......this is not nascar nor drag racing


i wouldnt mind seeing neck supports though

dont get ahead of yourself there.......this is not nascar nor drag racing

No it's not, but compare the injury list from SC 3 to a Nascar or drag event... ??
Makes ya think doesn't it?

Both are fun to watch...neither are rock crawling!

that's just not needed. props to those that decided against running that wall.:beer:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=153116

My guess is that it won't be long until spotters become co-drivers.

1-The man made courses exceeded all expectations, and held up well against all abuse. Very very technical and rear steer friendly.
I agree, on Friday everybody who had rear steer used it on every course.
2-The "Wall of Death" was a gut check and I bet I hit 30MPH by the time I hit the bottom. I'm not sure what was worse going up or comming back down!!!
I agree.
3-Becca was the 1st up the back side, and she has bigger Balls than most of the guys.
I agree.

4-I saw Peter's / Nicks accident and could have sworn I witnessed the 1st fatality in Pro Rock Crawling. I'm sure the spotter's safety gets addressed before next season.
I agree.
5-Numerous neck compression accidents. UROC will probably address overhead protection distance, and enforce shoulder restraint tension.
I agree.
6-Randy Torbett, was ICE in the final and should change his name to "The ICE MAN"
I agree.
7-Rockrunner Racing proved again to be the best team in in the field (all 4 rigs in the final)
Nelson and Campbell didn't do too bad either.
8-Great spectator turn out and vendor runway.
Questionable.
9-Rumor has it, Joel Randall sold off Rig tractor and Trailor to a guy in Texas. I wonder what he will have in 2005?
?
10-I can't figure out why they did not use "The Wall" in the final.
Because there wouldn't have been a final.
11a-I guess you can win the SC with a 3700lb rig that probably costs less than $10k!!!!(New Holland Tractor Axles, 4.3, Atlas ect) Heck, I don't think he has an aluminum part on the whole rig.
I agree. Randy and Eric are a hell of a team.
11b-However, I still can't figure out how the hell he made it up both sides of the Wall and why Tracy, Jon N, Larry ect did not try it. That would have been the difference in the championship.
I was in 36th place when it was my turn at the wall. After I did the front side of the wall and got my -15, I decided not to do the back side of the wall, because the possiblity of serious injury or death and thousands of dollars in damage to a borrowed rig wasn't worth the risk. I can't answer for Tracy, Jon N etc...but I would imagine they looked at the odds and the consequences and they also made calculated decisions.
12-A cold one goes out to all "SPOTTERS" who really are the unsung heroes in this sport. Good luck in the recovery Nick, we are all pulling for you.
I couldn't agree more.
13-The sport is on the right track and all teams better start looking for major sponsorship. I don't think we are to far from seeing Coke, Pepsi, Budweiser, HOME DEPOT ECT.
I don't know if I totally agree. I understand why it's going in the direction it is, but it doesn't mean I have to like the direction it's going. I totally agree that you better start looking for major sponsors if you want to continue in this sport.
14-Great season and hope to see you all next year. Daren
I'd have to think that there are a lot of teams doing some soul searching right now. There could be alot of trail riding in the future.

My guess is that it won't be long until spotters become co-drivers.

I wouldn't ride up that wall with anybody.

there is a fine line between extreme and dangerous. It is great to see the sport trying to reach higher levels of competition challenges and event organising. Supercrawl appears to have done this. Hopefully it shows that man made courses are a viable alternative however safety needs to be placed above a visual spectatcular that launching cars up vertical walls ensures.

I'm sure the organisers are going to use this event as a great learning experience and it can only get better from here on.

props to all the teams for even giving some of those obstacles a go :eek:
I hope the next level is a more technical basis rather than full throttle attacks on obstacles. If I wanted to see that I can go to the local trail and watch the twits in their stock 4wds try and drive the hard lines :D

that's just not needed. props to those that decided against running that wall.:beer:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=153116

That is just wrong! Sick as can be and wish I was there to see it but wrong! :eek:

I just want to say the event was Great, despite the incidents.

My two cents is reconsidering spotter involvement other than radio contact. On courses that extreme I don't think you should have a person running around there near by.

As far as the Wall or (matador?) goes NO spotters got hurt on that one unless they rode shotgun (that I know of)

I agree with neck braces for drivers.

I watched some Home Video from 2002 in Vernel the other day.
Guess what NOT-ONE spotter or driver with helmet.

I think this sport is Growing super fast and has some stuff to learn and is learning it along the way.

The Sport is growing and Shit happens and I am surprised it has not happened this bad or worse to date.

I think UROC is going the right direction. I hope it all ends up OK.

Prayers for Nick.

jeeperG

5-Numerous neck compression accidents. UROC will probably address overhead protection distance, and enforce shoulder restraint tension.

I never understood why people build their rigs so they only have an inch above their helmets? Just because UROC doesn't have a rule stating how far the roof needs to be away from your head, people need to think for themselves and make sure their own rigs are safe.

I'm sitting here with alot of thoughts running through my head right now. I enjoyed my part of the weekend alot! I really enjoyed you guys out there! And the Sponsers are the greatest! Congrates to the new Champs! It was my first chnace to meet Randy and he sure is a nice guy! I've worked with Dean since I've been with UROC, even gave him a helicopter ride once! I've tlaked with alot of you competitors on and off the courses over the years and I don't think there is a fine group of guys and gals in motors sports! You loan and even give each other parts, you open your shops at night, and at the end of the day you work out doing 12 once curls, having some shine, or just sitting around putting stickers on Hummers! You folks are the greatest and make UROC what it is.

Special thanks to Matt and the boys from Factory T. When Nick got hurt I grapped him and asked for some member of his team to take Nicks team's family members to LDS Hospital. The FTM Team where back to me and with the family faster than I can remember. Nicks team was from out of town and had no idea how to get there. Thanks guys!

I hope to see you all back out again next year!

i wonder, not having been there.. could they "fix" some of the problem by trucking in a crapload of dirt and gravel, so the base of each big throttle obstacle was 'softer' than concrete?.. or maybe truck in some large washing machine size rocks so that you couldnt make a 30mph approach to the obstacles?

how could these obstacles be CONSTRUCTIVELY improved, wihtout diminishing fan appeal, but moving the sport back to rock CRAWLING rather than rig jumping?

personally, i liked the pictures and pretty much everything i saw there, except the "wall" type obstacle that to me, gets away from what teh sport is all about.

#1 was not used because the drivers did not want to use it.

I'm sitting here with alot of thoughts running through my head right now. I enjoyed my part of the weekend alot! I really enjoyed you guys out there! And the Sponsers are the greatest! Congrates to the new Champs! It was my first chnace to meet Randy and he sure is a nice guy! I've worked with Dean since I've been with UROC, even gave him a helicopter ride once! I've tlaked with alot of you competitors on and off the courses over the years and I don't think there is a fine group of guys and gals in motors sports! You loan and even give each other parts, you open your shops at night, and at the end of the day you work out doing 12 once curls, having some shine, or just sitting around putting stickers on Hummers! You folks are the greatest and make UROC what it is.

Special thanks to Matt and the boys from Factory T. When Nick got hurt I grapped him and asked for some member of his team to take Nicks team's family members to LDS Hospital. The FTM Team where back to me and with the family faster than I can remember. Nicks team was from out of town and had no idea how to get there. Thanks guys!

I hope to see you all back out again next year!



Big S...
Our team was willing to help in any way we could. So would any of the local teams that knew were the hospital was for that matter. We are a family and need to look out for each other. If one of our boys were in the same position, I would pray that we would be able to rely on fellow competitors from that area to help us out also.

Thank you for giving us the opportunity to feel like we were able to help...there was nothing like that helpless feeling watching a friend lying there and not being able to do anything.

Good thought ChrisPy - we came up sand at the base of the big climbs. It was not concrete on the flat but very hard dirt. Obviously, it was harder than we (as a group of competitors) are used to. I think sand would keep speed down and help make a soft landing bed.

Before the modified finals we were told that the pyrimid of death would be one of two courses for us. Ranch solicited our input and all of us agreed that we did not want to hit it again. They then set up one awesome finals course. I spoke with Darrell (who basically designed the courses) during the finals. He pointed out that there were fans watching and cheering on crawling, not hammer up a death wall.

I did not want to do them, but the finals were really cool. It was crawling and the fans were into it. Come to think of it, the fans were evenly spread out along the courses. I did not see significantly more fans at the death wall.

I did not like the death wall. I rolled off it backwards after standing it on the tail twice. My rig got pretty trashed in the roll. Big climbs are part of the sport but like I say, I did not like the death wall and we need to make future ones safer. A larger top, runout areas on the sides (instead of falling off) and a softer landing area would help. Speeds were to high on this one, natural courses had ways of limiting the "blastoff factor", we need to find ways to do this on manmade courses.

Good thought ChrisPy - we came up sand at the base of the big climbs. It was not concrete on the flat but very hard dirt. Obviously, it was harder than we (as a group of competitors) are used to. I think sand would keep speed down and help make a soft landing bed.



If you have kind of a bowl-shaped "launch pad" then sand would be great. However, if there is no way to contain it, it would get blown out after a few competitors. We have this problem with the top class in mud racing at the bigger events where EVERYONE has lots of HP. The solution for us is to inform everyone that every "X" number of racers, the launch pad will be pushed back in. In our case, that actually makes guys launch HARDER, but for your scenario, it should work the way you plan.


TEX

Good thought ChrisPy - we came up sand at the base of the big climbs. It was not concrete on the flat but very hard dirt. Obviously, it was harder than we (as a group of competitors) are used to. I think sand would keep speed down and help make a soft landing bed.



If you have kind of a bowl-shaped "launch pad" then sand would be great. However, if there is no way to contain it, it would get blown out after a few competitors. We have this problem with the top class in mud racing at the bigger events where EVERYONE has lots of HP. The solution for us is to inform everyone that every "X" number of racers, the launch pad will be pushed back in. In our case, that actually makes guys launch HARDER, but for your scenario, it should work the way you plan.


TEX

Another good thought Tex - A slight "bowl" at the bottom. This would help limit speed because you could not back up to the banner and smash away at it because you would have a "speed bump". We could make a sand pit a foot or two deep and maybe 15' long at the base of the climbs. It would hold sand and limit the ability to jump a 20' wall, something I have no interest in.

Superranger, The sand trap may or may not work. The issue with the wall. Was that you needed a hell of alot of momentum not wheel speed to get up it. The Sand trap idea would restrict the momentum. There were plenty of accidents off of it because the rigs were not going fast enough when they hit the bottom. It's a bad situation, because you need the sand for safety, however, you need the runway for momentum. Tough call.

IMHO, the hardness of the ground is not the problem. It's the fact that it is flat. You're free falling 15-20 feet onto a flat surface, no matter how soft the ground is, it's still instant decellaration which is what causes the injuries. If we landed on a slope, like we do most of the time on natural rocks, the energy is dissipated and the risk is far less. Like I said before, when jump on a bike or skis... you always want to land on the downhill. If you land on the flat... you're going to eat shit.

d

Another good thought Tex - A slight "bowl" at the bottom. This would help limit speed because you could not back up to the banner and smash away at it because you would have a "speed bump". We could make a sand pit a foot or two deep and maybe 15' long at the base of the climbs. It would hold sand and limit the ability to jump a 20' wall, something I have no interest in.

just enforce the banner rule, like you do on every other course, and it solves the same problem doesn't?

I guess I need to clarify - I am thinking that in future manmade courses we design the climb a little smaller and restrict the momentum. That way, it is still a challenge but without excess danger.

Falling on flat ground (off the side of the hill) was a concern of mine. They built in small burms that I am sure saved some folks. Making these bigger would make me feel safer.

Consider #2, Mike Shaffer took a medium roll on to the hard flat. I was a bit surprised he had his bell rung. I think that if he landed in sand he would have been better off.

Overall, we just need to establish some limit on the "vertical drop scale". I hope we already found it.

If they are going to have climbs like the matador then we will need a launch pad. There's no dought it was a point and shoot. I had to do this climb w/ my modified rig and 37's on the super modified side. Since I didn't have a steering box and instead had full hydro steering. I made it but only w/ a 25' run top of second gear. It was a cool view from the top but don't think I'm lookin to do it again.

I made it but only w/ a 25' run top of second gear.

2nd gear? I'm pretty sure I heard it shift to 3rd when you were hung up on top. :D

Kevin

This was the best event Rock Crawling has EVER seen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have one question

What will make it perfect for everyone involved?

The answer is NOTHING!
If they make it more technical than everyone will say “there were to many cones” if they make it to steep it’ll be “too dangerous”. When they put the events in the small towns then it’s “we can’t get sponsors having events that only draw 5000 or less people” so they move them in to large cities and it’s “your making us do stuff only to draw a crowd” Well NO SHIT, that’s the name of game EXPOSURE. Big obstacles bring big crowds, big crowds bring big sponsors, big sponsors bring big money and that’s what this is all about, making money. It’s the job of the promoter to get people in the gates and that’s what they are trying to do and it’s working.
My point is, no one will ever be happy with everything at an event, and it seams to be more of the case when dealing with UROC. If you don’t like UROC or the way it’s run than don’t come! The only way they will make changes is if people stop coming, and I don’t see that happening, because like it or not they’re the best game in town with the best hold on the future of the sport.
As far as accidents go, it’s an extreme sport and accidents are going to happen. This was the worst, but it’s not the first, remember Shannon’s dad Don, that was a horrible but the sport moved on, and then Cody hit his spotter crushing his leg but again the sport moved on. The fact is some one will die in this sport eventually and that sucks but it happens in every extreme sport especially in motor sports, I was told by some of the desert racing guys that they average two deaths a year. So if you’re afraid of getting hurt than you need to take up golf, it’s safer.
Bottom line is all the obstacles were very doable and only one required speed the rest were crawlable (even the one Nick got hurt on). Only two people got hurt on the “Mata horn” and speed had nothing to do with either of them, so saying “speed kills” when referring to this event is a little misleading. As far as I saw their was only 5 instances that an ambulance was involved, and of those 5 only 3 went to the hospital and I know that more than 3 people have gone to the hospital in the last 25 events. There was nothing at this event as far as obstacles go that made it any different than most other events. The danger factor is at every event and if they took it away no one would come we have to create the elusion of impossibility for people to be entertained and a 6 foot wall or a pile of rock doesn’t do that.
I’m not being cold, what happened to Nick was a terrible accident, but it was just that an accident and no one wants to see people get hurt, especially me, I was extremely shook up when it happened and I didn’t even see it or know Nick or Peter. After it happen I had to call my wife and tell her that I love her because things like this make you think about the fact we are all extremely variable. And I wasn’t even competing in this event.

Sorry about being long winded but this is my .02
See you all next year and I’ll be trying to kick your asses :beer:

To Nick I hope you have a full and speedy recovery my thoughts are with you, and please keep us posted on his progress. :beer:

that's just not needed. props to those that decided against running that wall.:beer:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=153116

Your wrong about running the wall. This is the finals of the finals! I don't appreciate you using me as an example everyone gave it their best shot, I just happened to be third up for the day and didn't see the right line to go over. That is what makes it exciting, is it dangerous hell yes I was scared pulling up to the wall.

Andy

I wouldn't ride up that wall with anybody.

My spotter didn't seem to mind the ride! :flipoff2:

Andy, were you drinking Red Bull before that course??? That pic is worth an entire season of abuse to any rig and one that goes in my recordbook as the coolest shot of 2004!

And by the way, Larry would ride up the wall with me...I just need someone to help me knock him down, tie him up, throw him in, and strap him tight...he'll love it, I PROMISE!

Another good thought Tex - A slight "bowl" at the bottom. This would help limit speed because you could not back up to the banner and smash away at it because you would have a "speed bump". We could make a sand pit a foot or two deep and maybe 15' long at the base of the climbs. It would hold sand and limit the ability to jump a 20' wall, something I have no interest in.


Thats all nice in theory but were you there?


First of all with that wind out there sand would be gone in no time. Wood chips like they already had in a lot of the areas would be better.

Second speed bumps won't work in this case. You had to have a lot of momentum to get up #1 anyone there would agree speed bumps as you put it would men no rigs make it up it. Also for many rigs if you were watching, it took almost every inch of space to get the momentum they needed. For built motors it was no problem but there are still some running sami 4cyls and stock V6s that needed all the room they could get.

Personally I had the living hell kicked out of me, after rolling 5 times. 2 Of which were on the wall, my spotter went along for the ride(he's either got big balls or no brains :flipoff2: ) One thing I can guarantee you is I wouldn't trade any of it, and would I do it again........you bet your ass I would. I had a great time, probally the best time I ever had at any comp. There was no line that was too dangerous. The wall was scary but very doable with the right setup and momentum as Becca proved. What happened to Nick was very sad, but it was bound to happen sooner or later. I'm glad he is doing ok and me and my familys prayers are with him for a speedy recovery. I think Uroc did a hell of a job creating a playground for us to showcase our skills for potential sponsors and spectators. This is a on the edge sport that will keep testing the drivers, rigs, and spotters and if that stops then so will this sport. As I read everyone complaining about this and about that all I can think about is this shirt I seen at Supercrawl "Most sports only take one ball to play" Nobody is twisting your arms to do this, everyone knows the risks, if you don't like it then stop doing it.There will always be someone else who is willing to do it no matter what the price. As for right now I'm just glad I have the chance to be able to be part of something I love to do, I'll take the good with the bad!

Mike
Team # 818

Thats all nice in theory but were you there?


First of all with that wind out there sand would be gone in no time. Wood chips like they already had in a lot of the areas would be better.

Second speed bumps won't work in this case. You had to have a lot of momentum to get up #1 anyone there would agree speed bumps as you put it would men no rigs make it up it. Also for many rigs if you were watching, it took almost every inch of space to get the momentum they needed. For built motors it was no problem but there are still some running sami 4cyls and stock V6s that needed all the room they could get.

Yes, I was there. I rolled off of the wall. I think we need to limit momentum so challenging climbs don't reach heights that need 30 mph shots to make it. In my opinion, a bowl of sand at the bottom would limit momemtum. Fine if you think my idea is stupid but I don't think the sand would be "gone in no time".

Yes, I was there. I rolled off of the wall. I think we need to limit momentum so challenging climbs don't reach heights that need 30 mph shots to make it. In my opinion, a bowl of sand at the bottom would limit momemtum. Fine if you think my idea is stupid but I don't think the sand would be "gone in no time".

I understand what you are saying but I think if you limit the momentum it won't even be possible. That wall wasn't anywhere near crawlable. If you want to limit momentum you have to limit the obstacle itself too.


As for the sand, who knows. I don't live out there so I don't know how it is all the time, but it seemed pretty windy at certain times there and I am just going off of that.

Originally Posted by DetR6oit
Thats all nice in theory but were you there?

Yes, I was there. I rolled off of the wall.

SMACK! :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: not that you rolled, but at the very answer to the question itself :laughing: :laughing: Priceless.

Still, I'll say welcome to a kickass world championship...wanna crawl easy stuff, go to a regional event. The title means something and SUPERcrawl wouldn't have been nearly as SUPER without that badass climb.
UROC knows there are things they can do better and were already discussing it on Friday afternoon...still, for the few weeks they had to put this all together, it turned out AWESOME.


And for those that didn't know the easy way over the MatterHorn...it was go around the hill on the bark. That was until Jason Paulie brought it up with Darrell and the cones mysteriously showed up just above the bark... :flipoff2:

Brad, you and Roger kicked ass, congrats guys!

I think if we are going to have obstacles like #1 we can't have bumps or sand to slow us down. It was a momentum climb. I sure wouldn't of wanted to be slowed down and almost make it and have to back down.

14-Great season and hope to see you all next year. Daren

Lets all give it up for Daren on this one. I tell you what, he may talk alot of smack at times but he just backed it all up with this run. You got some serious gonads dude! :eek: :eek: :eek:.

Your wrong about running the wall. This is the finals of the finals! I don't appreciate you using me as an example everyone gave it their best shot, I just happened to be third up for the day and didn't see the right line to go over. That is what makes it exciting, is it dangerous hell yes I was scared pulling up to the wall.

Andy



i wasn't using you for an example,biglar posted the pic and i made it viewable without clicking on it. props to those that ran it too. not worth the risk in my book,that's all i was trying to say.

Guys with a 4cy or small 6cy really needed the runway. If you took away the momentum, there would be no way I could have made it with my 4cy. Dave, here is the back side you wanted to see. Not alot of landing strip!!!

The pictures sure don't do that obstacle justice. I don't know what was scarier the up or the down. I think I went just as fast down as I did goin up.

Would a larger flat landing at the top help make the big climb safer? Maybe with a dirt hottub at the top. That way with momentum you could reach the top and have a nice landing spot.

Reminds me of those crazy hillclimbings rigs that have 1000hp and nitrous blasting off the top of sand/ash hills.

This picture is a perfect example of how to gain spectators. Which in turn brings more money to the sport. Do I agree with it? I usually like the more traditional rock crawling. However, if the proper steps are taken in reguards to safety, I say go for it! I just hope "money" does not make event promoters get away from the real rocks that we all enjoy.
Mark
Team Mountain Jam
NEUROC competitor

Guys with a 4cy or small 6cy really needed the runway. If you took away the momentum, there would be no way I could have made it with my 4cy.

Did you ever consider that that's by design? ;) On a man-made course with no environmental concerns, they can design things with spectator appeal being a higher priority than normal. The insane climbs being step one. And if they build the courses in a manner that makes it an advantage to run a BIG, LOUD V8, again it's a crowd pleaser.

TEX

First off, best wishes to Nick. It was horrible that it happened, but in this sport, not entirely unexpected. I watched more spotters hitting the ground on this event than any other 5 events combined. It was the traction.

Second, congrats to Randy. It was fun to watch him come out here and kick some boottay.

Third, I think Mac hit this one on the head. This was the most extreme event in an extreme sport. It's going to get ugly.

Last, I was sorry to end my season early with yet another breakdown early Sunday morning. It may have been my last event. I got my buggy fixed in time to load it onto its new owners trailer and I wish them better luck than I had with it. It's been a great 6 years of competing. If the stars align and I find a new ride I'll be back next year. If not, well he!!, it's been the funnest time of my life getting to compete and hang with the best group of people in the world. You all kick a$$.
Bart (hoping the stars align)

AMEN! I was working the west staging area on sat/sunday and enjoyed watching you guys&gals do your thing. Your all psycho and need your heads examined. Gotta met SuperRanger, talked to Evan Walker and several of the female drivers. Also met a couple of smart-ass drivers when it came to lineing up in my staging area. #50 got his rig turned around in line-up for being a smart ass to me. I only drove his cause I know him. No offense, but some of you can't park worth a rat's ass. :flipoff2: I wish the best to Nick and I hope he remebers that not all the nurses butt's he pinches won't be female. :eek: You have a pair of 100% Big Brass Balls. I think Nick deserves one of those "One Ball" shirts.

This was the best event Rock Crawling has EVER seen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have one question

What will make it perfect for everyone involved?

The answer is NOTHING!
If they make it more technical than everyone will say “there were to many cones” if they make it to steep it’ll be “too dangerous”. When they put the events in the small towns then it’s “we can’t get sponsors having events that only draw 5000 or less people” so they move them in to large cities and it’s “your making us do stuff only to draw a crowd” Well NO SHIT, that’s the name of game EXPOSURE. Big obstacles bring big crowds, big crowds bring big sponsors, big sponsors bring big money and that’s what this is all about, making money. It’s the job of the promoter to get people in the gates and that’s what they are trying to do and it’s working.
My point is, no one will ever be happy with everything at an event, and it seams to be more of the case when dealing with UROC. If you don’t like UROC or the way it’s run than don’t come! The only way they will make changes is if people stop coming, and I don’t see that happening, because like it or not they’re the best game in town with the best hold on the future of the sport.
As far as accidents go, it’s an extreme sport and accidents are going to happen. This was the worst, but it’s not the first, remember Shannon’s dad Don, that was a horrible but the sport moved on, and then Cody hit his spotter crushing his leg but again the sport moved on. The fact is some one will die in this sport eventually and that sucks but it happens in every extreme sport especially in motor sports, I was told by some of the desert racing guys that they average two deaths a year. So if you’re afraid of getting hurt than you need to take up golf, it’s safer.
Bottom line is all the obstacles were very doable and only one required speed the rest were crawlable (even the one Nick got hurt on). Only two people got hurt on the “Mata horn” and speed had nothing to do with either of them, so saying “speed kills” when referring to this event is a little misleading. As far as I saw their was only 5 instances that an ambulance was involved, and of those 5 only 3 went to the hospital and I know that more than 3 people have gone to the hospital in the last 25 events. There was nothing at this event as far as obstacles go that made it any different than most other events. The danger factor is at every event and if they took it away no one would come we have to create the elusion of impossibility for people to be entertained and a 6 foot wall or a pile of rock doesn’t do that.
I’m not being cold, what happened to Nick was a terrible accident, but it was just that an accident and no one wants to see people get hurt, especially me, I was extremely shook up when it happened and I didn’t even see it or know Nick or Peter. After it happen I had to call my wife and tell her that I love her because things like this make you think about the fact we are all extremely variable. And I wasn’t even competing in this event.

Sorry about being long winded but this is my .02
See you all next year and I’ll be trying to kick your asses :beer:

To Nick I hope you have a full and speedy recovery my thoughts are with you, and please keep us posted on his progress. :beer:

Damn I wish I could have made it, last minute deals kept me home. As far as those who think that obstacles like that wall should not be there, why not? Farmington has some nice verts, maybe nothing like that, but still. I know a lot of people including myself if I were to go watch the sport, and saw a bunch of slow crawling, CAN YOU SAY BOOORRING. Without full throttle assaults, and some jumping, comps would probably not be gaining as much popularity as it has. I do give props for those who decided against it for thier reasons. But that was good the way it was, it was there if you had the balls, and it was still there if you didnt. I would have probably passed on that one too. I would expect lots of rules about driver and spotter saftey in the near future. Looked like an awesome event, good job everyone, and thanks Pirate for the coverage!!

My turn,

1st- Our team's prayers are with all who were hurt in the Supercrawl III.

2nd- CONGRATS to Team #215, Randy and Eric have dominated all season and deserve the win!

3rd- I was able to obtain a media pass as an " Alternate Spotter".
But Spotter's and Driver's were not to have them. I think this was a good idea. Permitting alternates. Thank you.

4th- I was one of the camera crew on the rocks for the first 2 days.
And even though I was ever vigilant of the danger, I WAS VERY GLAD that UROC decided to move us back.

5th- I still think that ESPN, Speedvision, CBS, ABC, NBC, and the other MAJOR tv Networks should be aloud on the rocks. This will help the entire sport and they are well aware of the danger, and they are very Professional camera crews. They know what they are in for.

6th- I did see a course Judge almost get squished by a rolling rig, I happen to be on the rock taking pics and screamed my lungs out for the judge to get out of the way. (his back was to the rig) (I know my being close helped prevent him from gettin hit, I have a loud mouth, but from the other side of the fence, he might not have heard me in time.)

7th- NEXT YEAR-- AN EAST COAST MAN MADE SUPERCRAWL ! GET IT. :grinpimp:

Joe - It was real nice to meet you. I appreciate alll the work you did to make the event happen. Thanks! I hope you stay involved.

Garza - I don't know if you were there or not. During the finals the crowd was rivited to crawling, not massive climbs. The finals were the coolest part of the event. It does not take high horsepower, high speed climbs. They are an element of competitive rockcrawling, but they are not a crutch for the sport.

During the whole event, I saw as many people watching technical courses as I did the wall. It surprised me.

Drama is what will make the sport succeed and the finals had it.

I'd have to think that there are a lot of teams doing some soul searching right now. There could be alot of trail riding in the future.

On ATV's.

#1 was not used because the drivers did not want to use it.

A good idea. The championship shouldnt be determinded bywho has balls the size of Becca's (meaning bigger than the other guys in the finals) and willing to risk it all one obstacle.

So TRUE! I agree. Very well said The Mac. I guess a decision will have to be made on an individual level for each competitor and spotter for themselves. Do they want to make a living/money doing something they love, if so the sport needs to grow and they need to support every step made in that direction. Or do you want to keep it purely recreational? There are a lot of trail rides, Moab, etc. for you to play on and have fun.




This was the best event Rock Crawling has EVER seen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have one question

What will make it perfect for everyone involved?

The answer is NOTHING!
If they make it more technical than everyone will say “there were to many cones” if they make it to steep it’ll be “too dangerous”. When they put the events in the small towns then it’s “we can’t get sponsors having events that only draw 5000 or less people” so they move them in to large cities and it’s “your making us do stuff only to draw a crowd” Well NO SHIT, that’s the name of game EXPOSURE. Big obstacles bring big crowds, big crowds bring big sponsors, big sponsors bring big money and that’s what this is all about, making money. It’s the job of the promoter to get people in the gates and that’s what they are trying to do and it’s working.
My point is, no one will ever be happy with everything at an event, and it seams to be more of the case when dealing with UROC. If you don’t like UROC or the way it’s run than don’t come! The only way they will make changes is if people stop coming, and I don’t see that happening, because like it or not they’re the best game in town with the best hold on the future of the sport.
As far as accidents go, it’s an extreme sport and accidents are going to happen. This was the worst, but it’s not the first, remember Shannon’s dad Don, that was a horrible but the sport moved on, and then Cody hit his spotter crushing his leg but again the sport moved on. The fact is some one will die in this sport eventually and that sucks but it happens in every extreme sport especially in motor sports, I was told by some of the desert racing guys that they average two deaths a year. So if you’re afraid of getting hurt than you need to take up golf, it’s safer.
Bottom line is all the obstacles were very doable and only one required speed the rest were crawlable (even the one Nick got hurt on). Only two people got hurt on the “Mata horn” and speed had nothing to do with either of them, so saying “speed kills” when referring to this event is a little misleading. As far as I saw their was only 5 instances that an ambulance was involved, and of those 5 only 3 went to the hospital and I know that more than 3 people have gone to the hospital in the last 25 events. There was nothing at this event as far as obstacles go that made it any different than most other events. The danger factor is at every event and if they took it away no one would come we have to create the elusion of impossibility for people to be entertained and a 6 foot wall or a pile of rock doesn’t do that.
I’m not being cold, what happened to Nick was a terrible accident, but it was just that an accident and no one wants to see people get hurt, especially me, I was extremely shook up when it happened and I didn’t even see it or know Nick or Peter. After it happen I had to call my wife and tell her that I love her because things like this make you think about the fact we are all extremely variable. And I wasn’t even competing in this event.

Sorry about being long winded but this is my .02
See you all next year and I’ll be trying to kick your asses :beer:

To Nick I hope you have a full and speedy recovery my thoughts are with you, and please keep us posted on his progress. :beer:

Mac

I see all your points and they are good ones but I'm sticking to the belief that going fast over rocks is a very bad idea. I loved all the courses and I'm glad we had a chance to try it but there is a leason here. It's unsafe for the teams, judges, cameras, and fans to have buggies jumping rocks.

Stage 1 is what it is. A hill climb from hell that needs speed. I'll never run it again. I'll take my 40, Save my spotter and rig, not worry about who may be in the way on the other side, and move on.

Stage 2 was awesome. I just wanted some cones at the bottom of the climb so a driver can't back all the way up and get a run at it. It's still a safe course and fun to drive.

Stages 3-8 are the best I've ever ran. Great design and fun to drive. Very safe. Great climbs but very technical.

This isn't a shot at Uroc or anyone else. This was the first of it's kind and I think everyone involved did a great job. My hats off to Mark, Ranch and the rest. I couldn't have been happier with SC. But what does next year bring ?

Several people brought up the point that drama and technical sells tickets better then buggy jumping. Amen !!!

Several people brought up the point that drama and technical sells tickets better then buggy jumping. Amen !!!

I'm not necessarily saying this is the direction your sport should take, but I do doubt that last statement.

TEX

I'm not necessarily saying this is the direction your sport should take, but I do doubt that last statement.

TEX

Well I really need to put the keyboard down here but the drama is what every fan is going to pay for in the long run.

Look at NASCAR (I know, the horse is dead), cars going around and around. There may be a crash every now and then and there are loud engines. Boring as hell. Imagine watching 60 buggies on the same course all day. Boring as hell. How did NASCAR make it work? They built a man drama.

The finals were a man drama. 6 mods and 9 supermods, 1 announcer and a lot of money on the line. In the finals (as an aside) I was in my zone listening to my spotter and we slipped through some cones on a sidehill and broke free for the flat. The crowd went crazy. There was no dirt flying and no straight exhaust but there was tension and teamwork.

I am convinced drama is half the reason we all check out Pirate. Look at how many people are checking out the "Tracy Jordan wtf" thread. Why? Maybe there is a juicy piece of gossip inside on America's #1 Rockcrawler. We could be out there playing chess and as long as fans have someone to love and someone to hate, they will pay to watch.

Before this season I knew no east coast crawlers. I tried to follow the coverage it seemed to be just another rockcrawl out there. At Supercrawl I met a few (Nice to meet you all by the way) and you bet your ass I am going to be glued to the coverage next season. How many of us are going to be watching Torbett? How many have already read back through coverage to see how well he did in the past? I have stories behind the names now and it makes it a hell of a lot more interesting.

I am straying from the point of the thread here but in my opinion the primary promotion goal should be putting a story behind a name and giving Joe Blow someone to root for, that will develop loyal fans.

I'm not necessarily saying this is the direction your sport should take, but I do doubt that last statement.

TEX

You obviously weren't there for the finals then. The key really was the announcing. Getting the fans into the drama, letting them know what was going on, and the point spread and what the particular competitor needed to do to win. I was there all weekend from 7am until everything was done every day, and that technical finals course really was one of the most exciting parts of the whole weekend.

As for the wall, it was badass and definitely fun and exciting to watch. Do I think every course should be like that, hell no. Personally I think this event was just right, one huge throttle explosive action obstacle, a couple medium action ones and a few really technical courses.

I agree with everyone that safety really needs to be looked at very closely. Whoever said that we'd have to have certified cages, HANS, etc. Why do you say that like its a bad thing? Shouldn't driver and spotter safety be the absolute first priority above all else?

Dallas

Any feedbackfrom any of the organisers or judges. How did they think it went, was it a harder/better event to run than normal. Does the man made aspect and close proximity make it an easier job to keep consistent scoring

I wouldn't ride up that wall with anybody.
Me either

"Whoever said that we'd have to have certified cages, HANS, etc. Why do you say that like its a bad thing? Shouldn't driver and spotter safety be the absolute first priority above all else?"

Dallas[/QUOTE]

** I agree! It's been obvious to me in the past year, that with the growth of the sport comes higher safety standards to protect competitors and the sports rep.
Mark
Team Mountain Jam
NEUROC competitor

just my $.02----- from an old fart not too far removed from the drivers seat-

You are building fan base thruout your comps----- can you identify with RED BULL ??? can you see/identify the team Red Bull rigs 'on course'-??---- without a doubt !!
the compedators that have made a distinctive rig, by color/paint scheme/sponsor decals, will attract the attention of the spectator, and build that fan base.
(you may not YET have 'TIDE, Viagra, Home Depot, Jolly Rancher, Kodak, etc. etc painted on your hood--) "build it and they will come"-

The courses that allow the spectator to SEE their 'favorite' run, will also build that identification.

I know Nick well and have had the honor of his presence in my home/ as well as being with him at the Hammers/as well as haveing him do some welding repairs on the Krustoy at Beatty--to my son, he is like a brother, BUT---


Personal safety/ course safety/vehicle safety---------- ALL is up to the people involved !---
passing rules and laws will not take away the risk----

I am happy to see that some chose NOT to do the hill---- and then there were some that chose TO do it-- it is ultimately up to the driver/spotter. NO ONE says you HAVE to do anything---know yourself, know your vehicle , weigh the risks, and assess the rewards, and be aware of what could happen, take all prudent precautions------- and DO IT !! (which ever way you wish to go--)

Well I really need to put the keyboard down here but the drama is what every fan is going to pay for in the long run.

Look at NASCAR (I know, the horse is dead), cars going around and around. There may be a crash every now and then and there are loud engines. Boring as hell. Imagine watching 60 buggies on the same course all day. Boring as hell. How did NASCAR make it work? They built a man drama.

See I disagree. I understand what you're saying, and Hell you may be right. But, IMO NASCAR is anything BUT boring, and "drama" isn't the reason why. Sure, you have guys to boo & guys to cheer, and that helps. But, speed, sound, and running on the ragged edge are what keeps the fans on the edge of their seats - on those rare occasions they actually sit. If you honestly think NASCAR is boring, you've obviously never seen 43 cars scream by you at 193 MPH & 9,000 RPM. I attended both my first competition rock-crawl and my first Nextel Cup race in the past 5 months. Trust me, NASCAR doesn't need ANYTHING "human" to get your attention. And at the rock-crawl, I couldn't care less about any "drama". I wanted to see guys attacking obstacles with varying degrees of success. Don't know who won (well, I know who won ONE of the classes), don't even care. But, I remember who was fun to watch & who wasn't ;)

TEX

You obviously weren't there for the finals then. The key really was the announcing. Getting the fans into the drama, letting them know what was going on, and the point spread and what the particular competitor needed to do to win. I was there all weekend from 7am until everything was done every day, and that technical finals course really was one of the most exciting parts of the whole weekend.

No doubt a quality announcer can make an otherwise dull event seem great & a great event seem over the top. And that's true of almost any competition event. That being said, you guys still have to remember YOU'RE the insiders. You appreciate the technical aspects in a way the "guy off the street" never will. Back to the NASCAR comparison. There were 300,000 specatators at the event I attended. How many of them really understand what it takes to win? The things that must be done right in the pits, when to pit, when not to, what adjustments to make when the car acts a certain way? Probably less than 1%. How many care? Probably less than that. To be sure, they're obviously seeking a different experience than are attendees of a rock-crawl. But, both groups still respond equally to the most basic elements - sight & sound - more so than anything else IMO. Keep in mind also that the spectator crowds (if 7k as reported) aren't anywhere near big enough to support your sport by themselves. You guys are banking on TV to grow the sport. No WAY you're gonna be live. Even something as regimented (and popular) as NHRA drag racing is recorded & edited for time & content. So, how do you convey that "drama" in an event broadcasted well after the outcome is already known?

TEX

tex,

you said " So, how do you convey that "drama" in an event broadcasted well after the outcome is already known?"

Good question, and once we figure that out. We will be in the $$$$$.


TEX, the "drama" waiting for Torbett to win was worth the cold, wind, dust, dark, hungry, waiting to drink heavily, time sittin on ice cold bleachers, on the side of the course that we couldn't hear the announcer (east crews) but we knew the big names, and we had a blast cheering on #215 to victory!

It was worth the 30 hour drive, running out of fuel in the tow rig, waiting for AAA to come with 5 gal of diesel fuel to get us to the event on time, eating truckstop food, paying $3.25 for a hot dog at the event. (yummy)
It was worth every penny and every minute to see Randy (Torbett) and Eric win the hole shootin match.

Best event the East has seen this year, and the finals in Jellico was tough to beat.

WAY TO GO UROC.

Personally I had the living hell kicked out of me, after rolling 5 times. 2 Of which were on the wall, my spotter went along for the ride(he's either got big balls or no brains :flipoff2: ) One thing I can guarantee you is I wouldn't trade any of it, and would I do it again........you bet your ass I would. I had a great time, probally the best time I ever had at any comp. There was no line that was too dangerous. The wall was scary but very doable with the right setup and momentum as Becca proved. What happened to Nick was very sad, but it was bound to happen sooner or later. I'm glad he is doing ok and me and my familys prayers are with him for a speedy recovery. I think Uroc did a hell of a job creating a playground for us to showcase our skills for potential sponsors and spectators. This is a on the edge sport that will keep testing the drivers, rigs, and spotters and if that stops then so will this sport. As I read everyone complaining about this and about that all I can think about is this shirt I seen at Supercrawl "Most sports only take one ball to play" Nobody is twisting your arms to do this, everyone knows the risks, if you don't like it then stop doing it.There will always be someone else who is willing to do it no matter what the price. As for right now I'm just glad I have the chance to be able to be part of something I love to do, I'll take the good with the bad!

Mike
Team # 818

I was the first to strap in on the wall and would do it again in a heart beat.

No fear no brains.... bla bla bla it all works out the same in the end.

Supercrawl was awsome.

The only thing I want more of is the vid of us rolling on the wall. I want the whole thing. Other than that all was good.

Dan - 818