what a f-in day first off i would like to say sorry this will be a little long so my bad but i got to vent somewhere,soo...yesterday i was training a new recruit how to install a canopy on an aircraft and he did what i thought was a good job but today they tried to fly the jet and the damn jet air aborted after 23 minutes because the canopy would only halfway pressurize long story short someone was pissed for a minor problem that was fixed on the spot (by the by everything was done by the book just one of those things) but some civilian complained to some one important and they went head hunting trying to burn someones house down and they went after my trainee and i stood up and told them if you want someone get me but if they do that they dont have a leg to stand on so they were like no why dont you just let us fry the new guy but i wouldn't let them so there mad and i am even madder cause this is all really just b-s and if some little punk ass civilian wasnt an ass-bag everything would have been cool......vent.....well in the middle of this the phone is ringing off the hook with work on all these jets, then the wife calls (when i was out on the flight line) my 62 wont start(her daily driver) but my mom is going to drive me home so i can pick up our oldest son from school ont the way home her moms car breaks down and they manage to get it to my house and my wife calls her sisrter to borrow her car on the way home the transmission starts slipping really really bad but makes it home anyway as soon as she gets home she checks the machine and her favorite uncle died last night in his sleep(at 50) and the kids are screaming at and she is not coping well she is about to off some kids and cant get a hold of me cause i am somewhere hanging upside down trying to fix some jet from 1968..so after the third or fourth call from my wife (who never calls me at work) they come get me off the flight line to make a phone call and i call home and get three broken cars a dead uncle and two boys are pissing me off i say okay i am on my way walk out side and realize that i had let someone use my car to dive to fairfeild so he wouldnt have to drive his 4 runner which gets like 10 miles to the gallon due to 8 inch lift and 37's. so instead of going to handle my business i go back to work finally get off and get to the cruiser. turns over fine has plenty of gas but wont start i didnt have any tools so i couldnt do much so i thought it was either spark or fuel delivery pulled the coil wire touched it to some metal and boom multiple sparks(i have an msd in the truck)anyway i turned the key on and couldnt hear the fuel pump but i have never been able too(hear the fuel pump), so i pulled the air hose at the intake to expose the throttle body (or what ever, it is efi) and i pumped the throttle for a while and couldnt smell fuel so here is my thought either i have a plugged fuel filter not letting the engine get fuel or my fuel pump is shot but were is it, in the tank i think but i dont know.....so finaly here is my question do you think it is my fuel filter or fuel pump if it is niether were should i look next(already checked all the fuses they were all good) we have had the cruiser for 2 years and never a hicup but at 270,000 it could be all kinds of shite am i on the right track and were do i go next, i know this is a long post but i hope that any cuiser head that had the day i did would be willing to spit some advice so what do you all thinks....even if i get no response thanks for letting me bitch anyway

I do not want to be the poor guy that cuts you off in traffic on the way home :eek: :eek: :D
Sounds like a hell of a day you are having.
I had a similar problem with my 62 about five years back and the codes showed it to be a non-functioning cold start injector.(Intermittent)
The guy at the shop showed me a way to "jump" the circuit but it has been too long since it has happened to remember exactly which wires to jump.(UPDATE:I went outside with a flashlight and looked)Basically it involves getting a direct ground to the harness that energizes
the injector.The injector is located in top of the plenum,drivers side,directly across from the air intake.It has a steel fuel line feeding it and a harness with two wires, 1 black w/red stripe(POS) and one blue w/ red stripe.(NEG)
What I was told to do was to ground the Neg wire to a point on the chassis/eng to close the circuit.(This will tell the ECM to pump some extra gas into the intake as soon as the key is turned on)
I did this by putting a scotchlock connector on the Blue w/ red stripe wire and running a 12" piece of wire with an alligator clip off of it
I then hooked that to a good ground in the eng. bay and she started right up.
You have to remember to disconnect this wire right after she fires up ,or you will be putting more gas into the injection sys. than you need.(i.e. Even worse gas mileage) :shaking:


My problem was intermittent and I think I only had to do this 5 or 6 times,and that was 100,000 miles or so back.I guess Landcruisers can fix themselves
sometimes! Hope this helps
Bill

And I thought I had bad days.

When you turn the key does the check engine light come on? If not check the fuses and the 3 green wirs that go to the battery + post.

You can jump your service connector to get the fuel pump to pump cant remember which ones to jump off hand. Easy thing to do is to pull off the feed side of the fuel filter and crank the motor.

When you crank the motor for a while and it wont start and then turn it off you will hear a series of very rapid clickes out of the ICS on the intake. No clicks means no ICS function means bad info/no info out of computer.

'87 Landcruiser:

I'm pretty sure the COLD START valve should have allowed the vehicle to start on the crank up. THEN it is running off the ECU. That has fooled me before.

Only thing I can think of in common between the two items is fusible link. Electrical power to both.

Catch is "you smelled fuel" which implies the cold start valve kicked in and sprayed fuel into the intake manifold.

First thing to check. Fuel Pressure. Should be around 50 - 60 psi (manuals are in storage). Usually I just replace the fuel filter as preventive maintance, but a clogged filter or low pressure pump will usually let the cruiser fire up but run like chit on the road.

EDIT: Kaiser Bill had a good explanation of the cold start valve. If it didn't kick in, you would smell fuel from the injectors. DOH! Need more coffee.... :)

Tom :usa:

Son, you need a Factory Service Manual. There is a multipage fuel system diagnostic in there that can help. In the meantime, take all of DD113's advice. to see if the fuel pump is working, disconnect the line at the fuel filter, which is on the passenger side wheel well hump, a big black canister, and turn the key on and see if fuel comes out.

What tends to happen is the fuel pressure regulator fails after a while, and it fails closed, so the fuel pressure goes way up. There is a check valve on the fuel pump, which is in the tank. The check valve gets forced closed by the high fuel pressure and gets stuck closed, and the pump just keeps running, but the fuel is bypassed back into the tank by the valve.

Sometimes when you open the fuel system(as suggested above) the check valve will pop open and the truck will start right up after you put it back together, but it won't last - the next time you try to do a warm start after letting the truck sit for 20 minutes, it won't start for the same reason.

Replacing the FPR can sometimes solve the problem entirely, but sometimes the check valve is really really stuck and then you have to replace the entire fuel pump - $200 part and a PITA to replace because you have to drop the tank to do it. If you have a way to measure the fuel pressure do this first - you can test it at the cold start injector fuel pipe, which is high on the driver's side of the intake plenum witha hard fuel line going to it. If the pressure is high, replace the FPR, which is on the front end of the fuel rail, where the fuel return line comes off. $100 part, two bolts to install it.

good luck!

Resource: join and/or search the archives of the 3FE list: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/3FE/ , which is the best informed group of 3FE owners around.

yeah i narrowed it down to the fuel pump and they do want some coin for a new one here is my thought, cant i jsut take an aftermarket external pump and put it in the main fuel line, if i did this would i still have to remove the old pump from the tank or could i just leave it in there, does this sound alright to all of you or does it just sound like jerry rigin. my reasoning: new fuel pump 138.00 or an external fuel pump 35.00, new factory pump i have to pull the tank with the external no tank pull. what do you think

I am pretty dure an external pump wont work. I dont think the OEM pump is a flow through so I think it stops passing gas when it goes out. ( My wife can tell you I continue to pass gas even when out) Dbl check my idea on this. I could be wrong. Before you decide it is the pump run 2 looong jumpers from direct batttery power to the connector up under the DS 1/4 panel, hidden by a small blk plug. Jump across them, cant remember which colour is power for the pump, and see if the pump will work off of direct batt power. ECU can kill the pump as can EFI main relay. Are you getting the yellow ck engine light when you turn the key to accessorie? Most/many 62 no start issues are due to no power to the EFI relay.

The pump actuates through the fuel pump relay when the key is in the start position. Once you go back to run position the EFI computer tells the relay to keep it running.

The check valve in the pump is spring loaded - it only opens with pressure behind it from the pump. I doubt you can suck it open with an external pump. Dropping the tank is a PITA but not technically difficult. The safest way to drain the tank is with an electric fuel pump. Place a short piece of hose on the return line coming from the tank and a longer piece to another vehicle or gas can. I found it necessary to remove the rear anti sway bar link brackets. You could also loosen the passenger side shackle and drive it back until the bolts are barely visible in the bushings, but this is not absolutely necessary. Make sure you mark all the vent lines (6), on the line and on the corresponding ports. Lift up the carpet in the rear cargo area and remove the panel so that you can disconnect the fuel pump and the sender unit. Be very careful removing the bolts that hold the pump assembly in on the top of the tank - they are tiny and if rusted they will break, and then they are very difficult to get out due to the construction of the tank - don't ask me why I know this. ;) When ordering the fuel pump make sure to also get the fuel filter and the rubber gasket that seats the fuel pump assembly to the tank.

What about the EFI relay? I know this is a known problem with 3FE powered 80 series. Same symptoms as you describe.

Turn the key on all you want, pump the gas pedal like a mad man, it won't matter. The fuel pump only runs under 2 conditions: 1) when you're cranking the engine, and 2) when the engine is running and the flapper in the AFM on top of the airbox says there's air flowing thru the intake.

However, you can force the fuel pump to run by taking a paper clip or a chunk of jumper wire and jumpering the "Fp" and "B+" contacts in the diagnostic connector on the firewall above the charcoal canister. Insert the jumper, then turn the key on, you should hear fuel hissing thru the fuel rail and past the pressure regulator. Do this, then report back.

Nope, you can't suck fuel thru the OEM fuel pump.

The EFI relay on the FJ62 is pretty stout, rarely fails, but I suppose it could happen. It's mounted on the inner fender, between the supports for the airbox IIRC. Small metal canister thingy.

Make sure you check the Circuit Opening Relay, it's more prone to failure than the EFI relay, it's located inside the truck under the little plastic kick panel on the passenger side. You can usually hear it click back open when you shut the truck off.

Did you ever figure out why it wasn't getting fuel?, ours has no fuel, no power to the pump, without buying a new ecu and the relays how do you get it right. The efi relay seems to power up fine, is there a way to jump around it?, could it be the computer?, the open relay seems to function as well. Love to here how your problem ended, and if anyone has some input I am all ears. Thanks

BTT: I have a similar problem with my 80. I cant get the fawker to start.
I replaced the AFM, Coil, igniter, plugs, cap/rotor, and still nothing. I get spark. I can smell fuel. Can the cold start injector prevent the engine from starting ?