Well, you knew it had to happen.
With all of the success of the CTMs. and the resulting reliability, the once obsolete D44 is getting even more trick swag.
This set up is based on Arms designed by Eric Ruhl, and currently being fabricated by Bob Roggy (where I got mine), and Scott @ RockStomper.
They need to be used with a 1" spacer, to get the arm up high enough to clear the calipers at the rear portion of the arm. However, even with the spacers, you wont clear the calipers,if your running 8 lug hubs(the extra inch of rotors pushes the calipers up into the arm). The simple solution is to clock the brake mounting brackets rearwards 30 degrees, I used an old spindle as a jig and clamped it to the brackets then drilled 6 new holes right in the middle of the existing 6 spindle mounting holes. Then just rotated the bracket back 30 degrees.
You can see in this pic that the calipers are sitting a little lower than usual(I tried to just rotate the assembly, rearward one full bolt hole, but the 60 degrees was to much and placed the calipers to low in my opinion).
http://bbs.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/53-670849-MVC-001S.JPG
The linkage, I used is solid rod. 1 1/2" at the tie rod, and 1 3/8 at the drag link. They are threaded for 7/8" 1 ton TRE's. Gradys Extrem Off Road did all of the linkage work, and tapered the holes at the arms to accept the TRE's.
http://bbs.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/53-673415-MVC-006S.JPG
The linkage puts the tie rod out of the way of the drag link, behind the diff. the Hydraulic ram is also attached behind the diff, although in these pics, the ram is not hooked up yet.
Here are a few pics of the set up. It will be complete tommorrow, after I fine tune a few aspects, rotate the axle, and weld up the hydraulic ram mounting points.
http://bbs.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/53-673416-MVC-008S.JPG
http://bbs.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/53-673420-MVC-010S.JPG
This steering set up has great geometry, and solves all of the probs I had created when I moved the front axle forward 5"

Any idea on a price for the arms yet, looks cool and very functional, a step up from high steer, since the axle is actually shielding the tie rod.

Holy sh!t... there is a lot of detail on that little axle, it looks just like a real truck axle. I didn't know RC cars had evolved so far...







Bwahahaha

cool, good thing I got :rainbow: ball joints on my Dynatrac 60

those will bolt right up

I talked to BOB about those last week and he thought the only prob would be the high pinion, but after lookin at it I think we can make it work

It looks like a high pinion would be no problem.
You could also go with heim joints, and raise the Tie Rod a bit, if you needed.
I wanna go out and finish mine, but the apatrment manger has threatened to throw me out if I didnt stop fabbing on the Jeep in the driveway. It probably didnt help, when I told her, "Go away,.. Im busy".

Originally posted by H8monday
I wanna go out and finish mine, but the apatrment manger has threatened to throw me out if I didnt stop fabbing on the Jeep in the driveway. It probably didnt help, when I told her, "Go away,.. Im busy". I'm sure the was a "Fawken Idiot" tossed in at the end of that, wasn't there:D

Originally posted by Frosty2
I'm sure the was a "Fawken Idiot" tossed in at the end of that, wasn't there:D


No,.."Fawkin Idiot", is a compliment reserved only for my best friends.

Hey, when I moved into this yuppie complex, they were hurtin to rent these high dollar units. So when I was totaly up front with them, about what I would be doing in the garage the management was fine with it. They even gave me unit, out at the end of a culdesac, so i wouldnt bother anyone. Now that the nice gay couple, living next me has moved out, and a couple of rock and rollers from the midwest moved in, i thought my problems were over. But the apartments sold to a new owner, and the new management only grudgeingly accepts the verbal OK, I got when I moved in. I on the other hand wont sign the new addendums to the lease. So we are always, debating the acceptability of my ongoing projects. I figured I would show my good faith attempt to be compromising and wouldnt start grinding untill 11:00.

11:00:eek:

Your bein nicer about that than I would;)

just ask them If they would like you friends to come up and hang out for a while, and ask if they could have some mickeys on hand for us:nuke:


BTW Fakkin nice gear you got workin there, Kathy said you were always try'n to GET IT FROM BEHIND, i didn't think she was takin steerign though
:D

Go figure

Originally posted by Frosty2
11:00:eek:


Kathy said you were always try'n to GET IT FROM BEHIND, i didn't think she was takin steerign though
:D

Go figure


She wasnt talkin about steering:eek:

H8, thats a sweet looking setup, it also looks like it might keep your ackerman angle @ factory specs. (which i think helpswith tight turns)

so do you think that it would clear a reverse cut 44? or is yours, i can't remenber........

Man 11:00, I am out there in my garage grinding and letting the air compressor go on and off at 8:00 in the morn and till about 11:00 at night just to piss off the yuppie neighbors and especially the gay couple I have living across the street who always is compaining about me to the association:D

Originally posted by 3/4tonYJ
H8, thats a sweet looking setup, it also looks like it might keep your ackerman angle @ factory specs. (which i think helpswith tight turns)

so do you think that it would clear a reverse cut 44? or is yours, i can't remenber........

I recall seeing a post where Eric Ruhl, showed the ackerman angle, and it was as good as it gets. i believe he said it was just a fortunate added benefit of the design(which is dictated mostly by available space of the existing D44, design).

It looks like it should clear an HP D44.

I finished my hydraulic ram mounts today, but still need to raotate the pinion on the axle which will give about 1 1/2" more inches of clearance at the tie rod above the leaf springs.
Here are a few pic more pics.(I would have fionished if I didnt have to fight with the Apartment management. they even called the Fire dept, on me today, it was the same Fire inspector as on my Jobsite, we talked Jeeps for a while, and he went on his way(he did remind me to wear my safety goggles, when grinding though).
http://bbs.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/53-674226-MVC-012S.JPG
http://bbs.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/53-674229-MVC-013S.JPG
http://bbs.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/53-674233-MVC-014S.JPG
http://bbs.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/53-674236-MVC-016S.JPG

The fire department? What in the hell could the fire department do to you? You aren't starting any uncontrolled fires are you? I mean people use torches and welders in enclosed spaces all the time...

Good to know he wasn't :rainbow: !

Originally posted by Supergper
Man 11:00, I am out there in my garage grinding and letting the air compressor go on and off at 8:00 in the morn and till about 11:00 at night just to piss off the yuppie neighbors and especially the gay couple I have living across the street who always is compaining about me to the association:D
Exactly the reason the criteria I gave to the Real Estate guy when we went house hunting was:
1)No homeowner's association
2)2 car garage
3)Double wide RV storage on the side
4)Oh yeah... bedrooms, bathroom, etc

Oh one more very important item. :rasta:
If you are running hydraulic ram assist, and you simply move the ram from the front to the rear(keeping the mount configuration pushing the same direction, as before), then dont forget to reverse your hydraulic lines at the ram....... hahahaha, I said turn it slowly to the right, and the tires tried to turn left, and everything started straining, I said "NO!! turn right, and she said "I am",...I said "shut it off". Doesnt look like any damage was caused, but it sure could have. that ram would easily shread the linkage or actualy the box or an arm would probably let go before solid 1 1/2" solid rod, would give.

Anyway a quick reversing of the hydraulic lines, and everything works great. Could have been a steering meltdown:nuke:

H8monday ... :eek: RIGHT AWWWN !! :eek:

So whats this stuff about doing this onna 44? TYPO:confused: j/k :laughing:

Would there be any differences in making this all work on a 60 ?!? What kind of formulas does it take to figure the right components? I have never done anything like this before but can totally see the benefits of the mods. I am taking my time researching and am aiming on making it work right the first time around. Breakage happens, its the name of the game, BUT I'd like to cut down the learning curve as much as possible.
BTW, the 60 is going in my '76 FSJ Cherokee. Thanks, :beer::beer: Keith

Lookin' good H8! :beer: I guess we can consider your hydraulic line goof the first official "stress test" of the arms :flipoff2:

ERIC ... would you happen to have .02 laying around to throw at my query above your last post here ?!? I'd appreciate your input. :beer: Thanks, Keith

Ohh man so what does our D44 need now?
I m thinking someone needs to be welder boy to whip up some D44 kunckles for us

Originally posted by welndmn
I m thinking someone needs to be welder boy to whip up some D44 kunckles for us

And heck, while he's at it he can get rid of the BJ's and make them king-pin. :grinpimp:

Kinda like he's doing to get rid of the 60 upper king-pin bushing...

:D

Originally posted by tigger4x
ERIC ... would you happen to have .02 laying around to throw at my query above your last post here ?!? I'd appreciate your input. :beer: Thanks, Keith

Regarding arms for a D60? If it's a kingpin 60 talk to Ant:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18727

If it's a balljoint 60 you're on your own :flipoff2: Well, I don't have any info on those anyway.

Regarding info for designing steering arms, the first step is understanding Ackerman angle (web search) and then deciding whether you want to incorporate it or not. Personal preference IMO for our application. Other than that just keep the rod ends out of the tire and the same distance from the balljoint / kingpin as stock (unless you want to start playing with steering ratio and throw) and you'll be fine.

what is the length of the arms? why I am asking? I want to know if there is enough room to clear the shock on a TJ. I have a 44 going in next week. If I could get this setup to work. it would take care of the swaybar/tie rod interferance.

and do I talk to Bob and Scott about getting the parts. Or can I just give Bob a call?

Originally posted by kodak
what is the length of the arms? why I am asking? I want to know if there is enough room to clear the shock on a TJ. I have a 44 going in next week. If I could get this setup to work. it would take care of the swaybar/tie rod interferance.

and do I talk to Bob and Scott about getting the parts. Or can I just give Bob a call?


I got everything for the steering, from Bob, he even had another set, already fabbed up.
I got my machined, solid rod, Tie Rod and Drag Link from Grady.

Is anybody concered with the extra strees on the nuckle now that it is piviting all the steering force on it and not getting broken up as with standerd cross over hi steer? I was thinking about doing this on my king pin 60 but I dont want to break a nuckle, 4 bolts arn't that much.:roxy:

Originally posted by Freshman
Is anybody concered with the extra strees on the nuckle now that it is piviting all the steering force on it and not getting broken up as with standerd cross over hi steer? I was thinking about doing this on my king pin 60 but I dont want to break a nuckle, 4 bolts arn't that much.:roxy:

How would it be any different than a standard high steer set up?
In any case with the ram assist exerting steering control directly from the axle housing to the steering arms. The force is being fed straight to the arms but being split evenly between both sides.
All I can say is that in practice the steering has never felt easier or smoother(but I havent wheeled it hard yet).

WooHoo! Rear Steer (sorta) I was waiting for this to be figured out in the 4x4 world. Definatly keeps that tie-rod out of the way of rocks. The Effects it has on the Steering can be highly debateable though, some say it allows it to be smoother and allows for better handling others say it doesn't affect it. Though it would allow the tie-rod to bend if your wheels got in a position where the stresses were pushing them to Tow-Out. However it does elminate the Tow-In Type bend. As is seen in "normal" steering setups where the tie-rod bends.

Originally posted by DEnd
Though it would allow the tie-rod to bend if your wheels got in a position where the stresses were pushing them to Tow-Out. However it does elminate the Tow-In Type bend. As is seen in "normal" steering setups where the tie-rod bends.


Thats what the 1 1/2" hardened solid rod steel is all about, along with a 2"x8" hydraulic ram. There is a much better chance of twisting the knuckles right off the ball joints before the linkage will give up the ghost. When I place the wheel up against an object like a block wall, it will literaly move the Jeep over with any real effort from the steering wheel."bottom line",.. The steering is gonna turn if you ask it to.
It handles pretty damn good on the street also.

h8
Doe's the caster center up pretty good on that thing?...and since I'm a dumby...:D Whats it like steering your rig on the streets?Would you take it on the freeway(if no cops were looking your way).
thanks
-Kerry
BTW Nice job ..it looks good.

Originally posted by BossGrip
h8
Doe's the caster center up pretty good on that thing?...and since I'm a dumby...:D Whats it like steering your rig on the streets?Would you take it on the freeway(if no cops were looking your way).
thanks
-Kerry
BTW Nice job ..it looks good.

After competitions, I put the street goodies on it, and my Jeep, is our second car.
I drive it up to Tahoe all the time,..thats a 225 mile round trip, with winding roads. If the bias tires dont have the memory a flat spot from recently being aired down to 4 psi, my rig will cruise comfortably at 80 mph(well comfortable like flying in an open cockpit cropduster). Ive actually had it, up over 105mph, on a lonely highway outside of Las Vegas,.... In other words it handles very well on the freeway or even on mountain roads.
It returns to center, just like normal.
However it was not as freeway friendly, before Dean hooked me up with hydraulic assist. It had a scarry little wiggle at about 60 - 65 mph.
The hydraulic ram, acts as the ultimate steering damper.