Has anyone here successfully run springs that had the pin hole redrilled 3" or more from the original location? I want to mount my axle further back than stock, on a set of springs from another application that already has the hole too far forward for my K30. The original hole would actually be visible out from between the plate and perch. Seems like a bad idea since it would be flexing in the area with the hole and would make it more likely to break.

So, I know that some of you guys swap springs and move axles more often than most people rotate their tires. Have any of you run a setup that was redrilled that far off the original location? Did it hold up to massive flex and beating? Or is this a "Hell no, don't do it!" as it seems? I am not spending the money on custom springs right now, so that is not an option. If I can't go this route, there are other ways I can get most of what I want (at this stage) without the expense of custom springs. It's just that this would be better if it will work.

I'm looking for actual experiences, not opinions. I have plenty of those myself. :p

get three high quality carbide drill bits, a drill doctor and some cutting oil. I used motor oil insdted and it seemed to work ok.

It's been awhile but I think I used a really slow speed on my drill press to get the job done. one drill bit was completely thrashed after the process the other two survived because I would use one till it dies sharpen it and let it rest while I worked with the other one.

I redrilled home built six leaf Cherokee leaf packs.

I had the packs apart and drilled the main leaf to first for a template for the rest of the leaves I then the rest of the leaves together and drilled through the rest of them. be patient and work slowly oiling often. steady pressure on the drill press. not to much pressure or you will just burn the bits up.

Don't waste your money on high $$$ drill bits. Get a cheap masonary bit, put a good edge on it with a grinder, and use plenty of lube when drilling. I can GUARANTTE this works better than any other method or drill bit people will suggest ;)

That being said, I would not advise you go this route. I have re-drilled many leaf springs, and the rule I use for myself is I only re-drill so that the old un-used hole is at least still under the U bolts and spriong plates so as to reduce the chance of a failure at the hole.

you can try using a "hy-roc" carbide drill bit ( they are rated for drilling steels up to 65 Rockwell ) for instance you can drill through the side of a tap with one..... another low buck option is to get some hammer-drill bits from your local Home Depot ( the kind you use for drilling holes in concrete ) and using a silicon carbide grinding wheel, sharpen them for drilling steel. these bits usually are too dull to even start a hole but if you give them an edge and a bit of a split point....they will work....and they're cheap.:D.............. well looks like DRM beat me to it:emb4:

BTW - here is some ofwhat I have gathered in my experiences, maybe one of these other springs will help you out wsithout having to re-drill like that. Feel free to ask if you have any more questions :)

after ruining several good drill bits, i used the grinder rock kinda thing in my dremel. i did both holes in less than 5 mins. ... ymmv ...

- jack

been there done that, I only drilled the first two leafs though, left the rest offset 3 inches, seemed to work fine, never broke (only used em one season) had to use a new bit for each one and lots of lube and patience. another option to look at is making box steel spring perches of sufficient length to allow you to offset the centering hole in the perch, this allows you to use unmodified springs, as a bonus the longer length limits springwrap.

Oops, forgot the link :clown:

http://www.tennessee4x4.com/toyota/spring_swap_info.htm

i have moved the holes as much as 6" and never had any trouble with it, but they were light weight rigs. as far as drilling the springs. get a new kobalt bit and DO NOT use any oil of any kind. get yo a bucket of ice water and keep the bit and the spring as cold as possible. you'll be surprised how well this works. and usea low rpm setting. most people get the bit and spring hot as hell then use oil which actually hardens the spring like a grade 8 bolt. the heat jst sucks it in and makes the spring near impossible to drill through. might sound stupid but try it. it works!

if you drill your spring and the old hole is not under the clamping plate and is in a spot where the spring is gonna flex the spring WILL break at the hole. mine lasted exactly one trail and i have seen several others fail. no big deal on the trail but if you are gonna drive at speeds then you might die. :skull:

Drilling a spring is a freakin nightmare. www.mountainoffroad.com sells a plate w/adjustment for spring location you wont get 3 inches but maybe you could build a longer plate ?:beer:

Originally posted by Mr.RatBastard
Drilling a spring is a freakin nightmare. www.mountainoffroad.com sells a plate w/adjustment for spring location you wont get 3 inches but maybe you could build a longer plate ?:beer:

ive seen these plates before and I think there useless. Whats the point of only moving the axle forward or back 1"?? and whydo you need a MORE kit to do it, just drill a hole in the perch one inch forward or back? When I go to do mine its going back atleast 5-6 inches.

1.Drilling a cast perch and a u bolt plate would be a pain in the ass
2.centering my front axle in the wheel well on my CJ would only take 1 "
3.evidently there is some demand,this is the 2nd company I know of that offers them.
4.I didnt say he neede a MORE kit. Just the opposite "maybe you could build a longer plate "
I was giving him a alternate way off moving his axle,what are you giving ???
Why not grace us with your wealth of knowledge and explain how you will be moving your axle 5-6 "($10.00 says he's drilling a hole )

Later dude:beer:

Originally posted by Mr.RatBastard
Drilling a spring is a freakin nightmare.

No, if you follow the instructions I gave above, it is easy enough a child could do it.

Carbide burr and cutting oil.....
Jay

I should have said...For me personally drilling my springs was a nightmare.DRM's idea looks great and I am sure you will enjoy yourself.
He did have 1 great idea...get a kid to do it !:flipoff2:

Originally posted by Mr.RatBastard
1.Drilling a cast perch and a u bolt plate would be a pain in the ass
2.centering my front axle in the wheel well on my CJ would only take 1 "
3.evidently there is some demand,this is the 2nd company I know of that offers them.
4.I didnt say he neede a MORE kit. Just the opposite "maybe you could build a longer plate "
I was giving him a alternate way off moving his axle,what are you giving ???
Why not grace us with your wealth of knowledge and explain how you will be moving your axle 5-6 "($10.00 says he's drilling a hole )

Later dude:beer:

Actually slick thanks but im not re-drilling, I'll be moving the leaf pack back about 3 or so inches with a combination of using waggy leafs springs. Which in turn would = 5-6" back :flipoff2:

There ya go...That didnt hurt did it ?

Originally posted by Mr.RatBastard
There ya go...That didnt hurt did it ?

hurt??? whatever that means? so wheres my 10 bucks fawker :D

It meant adding usefull info is a good thing.


The check is in the mail...keep an eye out for it.:flipoff2:

thanks! :flipoff2:

Thanks for the info guys.

Originally posted by DRM
BTW - here is some ofwhat I have gathered in my experiences, maybe one of these other springs will help you out wsithout having to re-drill like that. Feel free to ask if you have any more questions :)

DRM (or anyone else). I've got a set of F150 57" springs that have the pin roughly 25" from the front eye. Stock GM rear springs (long version) are 56" long and pins are 26" from the front eye. Ideally I want a soft, flexy spring, 56-57" long, with a pin 28-30" from the front eye. I'll be moving my hangers around anyway so, I've got some flexibility.

Hmmm... that is a tough one....


Would some 63" rear Chevy springs work for you? I think they are a a centered pin pack - so a 31.5"/31.5" split....

Other than that, 56"-57" is not common to any other springs I know of....

Yeah, I thought about the 63s. They get me where I want to be (and then some) as far as flex goes. But one of the reasons I want to move the axle back is to cut down on the amount of frame (hanger) behind the tire. With 56-57" springs, and the axle moved back 2-4", I will have only about 8-10" of frame/spring behind the tire (depending on axle offset, 8" @ 4", 10" @ 2"). Basically it comes down to departure angle. I don't want to go shorter since that would likely reduce my flex. And custom springs are really more $$$ than I want to put into the rear springs (at this stage) for the return. (sigh)

If I don't come up with anything else, I'll probably use my GM main leaf with the Ford supporting leafs (or the GMs, depends on how it works out). Then I can move the axle back at least 2" with no trouble. Maybe by re-drilling the springs, or maybe make some plates. Hmm, maybe make some slightly longer perches using box tube? Then I can move my rear hanger 1" +/- further forward than the front hanger (which is going about 22" forward) to give me the shackle angle I want.

Hmmm... (light comes on) Hmmmmm, maybe turn the GM spring around backwards? That would move the axle back 4" with no drilling (56" spring, pin 26" from front and 30" from back). Hmmm, I like that. Combined with moving the hangers closer for the shackle angle and it should work. Sound good? :cool:

"Hmmm... (light comes on) Hmmmmm, maybe turn the GM spring around backwards? That would move the axle back 4" with no drilling (56" spring, pin 26" from front and 30" from back). Hmmm, I like that. Combined with moving the hangers closer for the shackle angle and it should work. "

Sounds great! Let us know how it turns out. My Chevys are kinda long out back and tend to bash on the rocks, but they carry weight of camping gear fairly well. If I did it again, I would try to find a spring about 56" long for less rear overhang.

Aren't mid 70s Chevy rears 56"?

Originally posted by Nate C
Sounds great! Let us know how it turns out. My Chevys are kinda long out back and tend to bash on the rocks, but they carry weight of camping gear fairly well. If I did it again, I would try to find a spring about 56" long for less rear overhang.

Aren't mid 70s Chevy rears 56"? [/B]

Yeah, that's exactly why I don't want to run the long (63"?) springs.

70's and early 80's GM trucks had 56" springs on some 1/2 and 3/4 tons (52" can be found on most 1/2 tons and a few 3/4 tons) but 1 tons always have 56" rear springs. My current pack was built out of my original K30 rear pack with all but 4 of the leaves removed. The K30 packs are nice in that they have an extra set of loops (don't know what else to call them) that bolt on to the pack using with the pin. These loops are several inches out-board of the u-bolt plate/perch and help keep the springs aligned without limiting their ability to move. I've been swapping them around (and may throw in some of the thinner ford leaves) to get the rate I want.

I took a piece of 2.5x2.5x.250 tube 7.5" long and cut it to fit over my axle tube with one inch hanging off the rear of the axle and 3 inches hanging off the front of a 14 bolt. These took the place of the factory perches I then drilled the hole for the spring pin 2" forward of center of the axle and matched that on the spring plates. It moved my axle back the 2" that I wanted and did not have to mess with the springs. It also helps alot with the axle wrap. You could easily go three inches using this method without problems.

why not take the friggin thing to a spring shop and let them use the big ol press and punch them as they are supposed to be done? probably cheaper than buyin a bunch of bits?

Because, all the shops I talked to refused to drill/punch extra holes. It is a liability issue.

If you want to drill a hole in spring steel, used cobalt drill bits, turn as slow as you can and use lots of cutting oil. If you feel the drill bit getting dull, stop immediately! Change drill bits and start again. What ever you do, don't dwell in one spot. Dwelling will cause the steel to work harden and you will have to re-drill from the other side to cut through that portion. That is where the small pilot hole really comes into play. Water is good for keeping the tool cool but it does not provide any kind of lubrication. A machine shop would use what is called Soluble Oil, it is oil that mixes with water, to provide the best of both worlds. (Cooling and Lubrication) First drill a hole that is the same diameter as the web thickness (the smallest crossection of the drill between the two flutes) of your finish size hole. Do not try to use Carbide drill bits in hand held drills. Carbide is WAY to hard, it needs to have a very sturdy setup. Leave that to guys with milling machines or heavy duty drill presses and radial arm drills. You might have a little better luck with a masonry bit that has been re-sharpened but dont do it if you dont know much about proper drill geometry. These pointers will also help while drill Stainless Steel. If you have any more questions about Machining, let me know. I am a machinist for an oil company and usually do it about 2500 hours a year. If I cant answer your question I probably know someone who can.

Originally posted by BadDog
Yeah, I thought about the 63s. They get me where I want to be (and then some) as far as flex goes. But one of the reasons I want to move the axle back is to cut down on the amount of frame (hanger) behind the tire.


Hahaha, trust me man, your truck is just like mine, gonna be nose heavy as hell. you can drag your rear overhang over anything with the front still pulling... only problem is backing up, & I've managed to push my springs/shackles up rock too, it's just kinda loud, & my shackles are kinda tweaked now. :D Been meaning to make them outta thicker metal anyway. It can stop you going backwards though.