Waggoneer springs SOA configuration or Warn Black Diamond coil conversion.
Wheel travel on each design?
Anyone have specs on Black Diamond?

Originally posted by doctor_G
Waggoneer springs SOA configuration or Warn Black Diamond coil conversion.
Wheel travel on each design?
Anyone have specs on Black Diamond?


I would go with an SOA (with all the trick, spring pack, and wb modifications), over, any suspension, except a custom link coil over(or possibly a very well designed 1/4 eliptic rear suspension)(S&N Fabs has 1/4 elipt, down to a science).
I have ramped at trail runs against Black Diamond suspensions, and they flex about like a middle to high end, complete TJ lift kit. On the trail Ive never seen one shine, when going steep, except for Jasons highly modified version.
The easiest way to put it in perspective,(after market TJ control arms, for custom 4 link suspension price).
Ive had guys wanna fight with me, when I tell them, my SOA will, embarass their Warn XCL on a ramp. They typically run a couple hundred RTI points behind a tricked out, well engineered, SOA.

H8, I've been following your posts regarding SOA with a great deal of interest along with the progress of your rig.
Exactly what spring combo are you currently using?
I finally got my RCD60's rounded up AtlasII and SM465 coming next Fall along with Chevy V-8 conv.
I want to start getting suspension components gathered up.

if money isnt a matter.......... id go coilover..... not the kit... between the kit and springover.... id definately go spring over... seen many of leafs out perform the kits.

Jeepguy!! Hey dude, been awhile.
Saw you up on some rocks in a magazine, congrats!
Rigs looking killer man, I see you've been busy.
I wish I knew more about link suspension/coilover and setting up the geometry to work for me.
I just havn't seen it enough around here to learn anything solid.
Points have been taken though as far as SOA goes.
I'm set up to extend my wheel base with the fuel cell and all. Now I need to choose a spring pack.

i got some preliminary designs for links.... give me a call 412-377-0280 i will be goin coilover in the future... hopefully after this season.........

Originally posted by badassjeepguy
i got some preliminary designs for links.... give me a call 412-377-0280 i will be goin coilover in the future... hopefully after this season.........

You're on dude, I'll be giving you a hollar.
There was a guy going by "steelman" had a well thought out and designed link system for his rig. He mentioned a book called Chassis Design (I think that was the name) I looked everywhere and came up empty.
Got to love H8's SOA though.

i have the book your talkin bout :flipoff2: :D

I run Rancho 44044 springs(Grand Waggy, 2 1/2"), in the front.
In the rear I run a modified Toyota Land Cruiser spring pack, using the stock military wrapped main and second leaf, along with stock Grand Waggy springs mixed in.

I will be going to a double reverse 3 link, coilover in the rear sometime in the next year also. I will use engineering input from Mike Shaffer and Bob Roggy.

i spoke with Roggy once allready.... i will be lookin to him for parts and final drawings for his opinion also..... mike im not sure i know him?

Originally posted by badassjeepguy
i spoke with Roggy once allready.... i will be lookin to him for parts and final drawings for his opinion also..... mike im not sure i know him?

Mike Shaffer took 6th place overall in ARCA last year, and one the 1st CalROCS. He fabs some awsome suspensions. He and Bob sometimes coroberate(spelling???) on projects.
I have been wheeling with Mike for years, he is one hell of agood designer, fabricator, and driver.

ahhh yeahh i know of him...... this is goin to be a fun project... not many as a matter of fact 3 coilover systems that i know of over here ive seen 2 of em, and will see the 3rd in april.... ill be making some, ok maybe many calls out your way for some input.... gonna have my Father draw it on CAD and email to some people for advise... im still hung up on anti-squat stuff... do i want it or not? with it good power to the ground... without it less axle walkin under neath the ride when climbing... with it with a limiting strap on the center? lots of thought... both ways just havent decided......... what do you think H8

Originally posted by badassjeepguy
what do you think H8


I am still doing my homework too.
I have some good ideas, because nearly every rig I wheel with nowadays is link suspension. I have seen what works, but I am still watching and learning. I am fairly certain I will use the double 3 link design, as it appears to solve many problems like rear steer, with its inheirant design(although the Cal poly professors see it otherwise, as its not supposed to be a good design on paper).
Hell if it was as easy as welding 4 links, to spots on the frame and the axle, I would have done it months ago when I was stretching my leaf spring design to 105".

Drop me a line when you start going through the design process and we can discuss what we know, and pool our research.

I do know that I like the 105" wheel base, when it comes to going vertical, and its no real handicap when it comes to turning, or high center,.... once you burn the new geometry into your driving skills. Cutting brakes help a lot also.

My current SOA flexes in the 1350 range on a 23 degree ramp though, I tested it when I was wheeling with the Scorpion on Bald Mountain, at the Moonlight Madness run. he got on the ramp, and scored something like 1550, so I had to see how I compared, I was at something like 1380, neither of us did any special ramping tricks or anything stupid, we just drove up on it, took the measurements and had the guys figure the numbers.
My current anti wrap bar keeps the tire stuck to the ground very well also.

Originally posted by H8monday
I run Rancho 44044 springs(Grand Waggy, 2 1/2"), in the front.


Now could you guys tell me for sure is the 44044s the same length eye to eye as a stock wrangler spring...if not I just need to prepare:D:D:D

Originally posted by badassjeepguy
i have the book your talkin bout :flipoff2: :D

Friggin plick!!, never would have guessed :rolleyes:
:flipoff2: probably free too!!
So tell me where I forgot to look. :D

Originally posted by H8monday
I run Rancho 44044 springs(Grand Waggy, 2 1/2"), in the front.
In the rear I run a modified Toyota Land Cruiser spring pack, using the stock military wrapped main and second leaf, along with stock Grand Waggy springs mixed in.

I will be going to a double reverse 3 link, coilover in the rear sometime in the next year also. I will use engineering input from Mike Shaffer and Bob Roggy.

Thanks, H8
Grand Waggy's are 1" longer than YJ and are off-set correct?
Not familiar with Cruiser spring length. :(
You still running Bilstien 5100's front and Rancho in back?

Originally posted by doctor_G


Friggin plick!!, never would have guessed :rolleyes:
:flipoff2: probably free too!!
So tell me where I forgot to look. :D

Look on the back of the book by the Bar code prolly and give us the ISBN number...after you have that you can go to just about any book store and they should be able to order it for you as long as it is still in print...thansk

Originally posted by Supergper


Look on the back of the book by the Bar code prolly and give us the ISBN number...after you have that you can go to just about any book store and they should be able to order it for you as long as it is still in print...thansk

Thanks Supergper. :smokin:
Hey Rob, could you hook me up with that number?

chassis engineering by herb adams, publisher berkley publishing group..... got mine at borders price 16.95



ohh hey doc :flipoff2: speaking of good deals, im selling my 85 turbo diesel ford..... :D

Originally posted by H8monday


coroberate(spelling???) on projects.


collaborate:flipoff2:



Adam,

Originally posted by Adam Ant


collaborate:flipoff2:



Adam,


Hahahaha, Thanks Adam,
you can remove the dunce cap and move to the front of the class now.:flipoff2:

Originally posted by H8monday



I am still doing my homework too.
I have some good ideas, because nearly every rig I wheel with nowadays is link suspension. I have seen what works, but I am still watching and learning. I am fairly certain I will use the double 3 link design, as it appears to solve many problems like rear steer, with its inheirant design(although the Cal poly professors see it otherwise, as its not supposed to be a good design on paper).
Hell if it was as easy as welding 4 links, to spots on the frame and the axle, I would have done it months ago when I was stretching my leaf spring design to 105".

Drop me a line when you start going through the design process and we can discuss what we know, and pool our research.

I do know that I like the 105" wheel base, when it comes to going vertical, and its no real handicap when it comes to turning, or high center,.... once you burn the new geometry into your driving skills. Cutting brakes help a lot also.

My current SOA flexes in the 1350 range on a 23 degree ramp though, I tested it when I was wheeling with the Scorpion on Bald Mountain, at the Moonlight Madness run. he got on the ramp, and scored something like 1550, so I had to see how I compared, I was at something like 1380, neither of us did any special ramping tricks or anything stupid, we just drove up on it, took the measurements and had the guys figure the numbers.
My current anti wrap bar keeps the tire stuck to the ground very well also.


i have no clue what mine does on a ramp.... a while ago i did 1200 on a 23 degree... but my rig has changed alot since then..... i really dont care if i get much more... just want better manners and to be able to pound on it without the worries of breaking brakets and such...


im definately goin longer, not quite sure how much yet.... how far back did you move your rear? how forward your front? i was thinkin 6 to 8 inches in the rear and no mre than 2 in the front....

double three link design... like desert toy's? yeahh but im a little worried bout clearance issues, nothing a guess a sawzall and torches couldnt fix... :D

ahh ill spit out a quick thought ive been leaning towards...... coils mounted as close to wheel as possible angled towards the frame at 15 degrees, no more than 20 as the shock becomes ineffective.

lower arms as close to wheel as possible, then go in as they go to the frame, mounting on the outside, side of frame rail.... length? it will go to the back of the belly pan or so....


upper arms mounted on the top of diff.... at least 10 inches above the lowers to prevent twisting from torque.... they will angle out to the inner side of the frame rail... length, they will be aprox 3/4 the length of the lowers....


this is just an initial thought all areas are subject to change through more discussion, and advice from people whom id take advice from :D

Originally posted by H8monday



Hahahaha, Thanks Adam,
you can remove the dunce cap and move to the front of the class now.:flipoff2:



:D :D :D

Originally posted by Adam Ant




:D :D :D

No you both need to stay after class...:FLIPOFF2: He was going for CORROBORATE:D

Now Doc! What was the question again:confused:

Here are a few questions of my own.
1) what is the purpose of this Jeep i.e. ultimate wheeler, camping rig that can Get It, or something else
2) is $$$ no object or are coilovers worth the $3000 once they are all in and linked-up.
3) what will be the normal use and load in it.

Originally posted by 66CJdean


No you both need to stay after class...:FLIPOFF2: He was going for CORROBORATE:D

Now Doc! What was the question again:confused:

Here are a few questions of my own.
1) what is the purpose of this Jeep i.e. ultimate wheeler, camping rig that can Get It, or something else
2) is $$$ no object or are coilovers worth the $3000 once they are all in and linked-up.
3) what will be the normal use and load in it.

I can see where you're going with your questions Dean.
You also bring up a good point. ie. a suspension that would meet my needs.
I would say for now I'm looking to a well tuned SOA and extended wheel-base.
Down the road I'll be looking closer at coilover but, it doesn't hurt to learn more about them now.
By the way Dean, could you send a pic my way of your rig at full articulation? I havn't ruled out Dakota springs yet. :D