Whats a Land Rover Birfield lock like ??

Did you mean "look" like??? There are few versions. Generally similar to the Toyota ones. The earlier large units "AEU2522" are fairly close in size to the Toyota ones other than different shaft and spline sizes.

I'll put in my vote now. If there is any way you could make youe Chrome-Moly Birfs in the same configuration as the AEU2522, there would be a lot of happy Rover owners. It would sure save a lot of people money over the 30/30 Longfield by not having to purchase new shafts and flanges.

You want one Bobby? I'll send you one... Call you tomorrow..

Keith
www.rovertracks.com

Surprised you had to ask. Ive got some you treated in my truck, so do some other folks.
-Ike

I think he means the swivel ball Icky.

i could only dream of having a cromo birf for my disco at the price the toy ones are! bobby please hook us up, i will buy two very soon.

What specs gou you want? The AEU2522 is the same size as the toy minitruck birf and the internals are completely interchangeable.

The outer stub on the AEU2522 (and a couple of other LR birfs) is:

24 SPLINE:
Involute form, flat root side fit, 20/40 DP, 30 o PA,
Major dia 31.4 (1.24") Root dia 29.2 (1.15") Zp (polar section) .294
App torque capability for axle of 1500 Mpa UTS Hytuf 7835 Nm (5780 ft lbs)

The inner spline of the good cv's are:

23 SPLINE: Only used as the inner axle to CV connection on the three decent CV joints, namely R606665 R/R ; AEU1828 stage one 111 and AEU2522 early county
Involute form, flat root, side fit 20/40 DP, 30 o PA,
Major dia. 30.1 (1.18") Root dia 27.9 (1.10") Zp (polar section) .281
App torque capacity of axle of 1500 Mpa UTS Hytuf 7450 Nm (5500 ft lbs)

Thanks To Mal story for the info. All 3 CV joints mentioned above have identical internals and identical inner axle spline. The only differences are that the AEU2522 has a longer stub shaft than the AEU1828 (but both are 24 spline). The R606665 has no outer stub shaft - instead it is broached for a small 10-spline removeable stub shaft (that is one-piece with the hub flange).

This is a star from an AEU2522
http://tawayama.com/gear/crewcab/brokencv/star.JPG

These are the stub shafts of the 2 currently available (Genuine Rover and Allmakes)
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=124691&stc=1

AEU2522 longfielded by bobby (you must have seen these things before):
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/uploads/longfield.jpg

Stub shaft from a broken AEU2522:
http://tawayama.com/gear/crewcab/brokencv/stubaxle.JPG

23 spline (CV end) of inner axle:
http://tawayama.com/gear/crewcab/brokencv/outerspline1.JPG

Spindle that the CV runs against - there should be a brass bush there. The spindle needs to be bored 0.030" to fit a 30 spline long through.
http://tawayama.com/gear/crewcab/brokencv/spindle.JPG


It would be great if you could make some cro-mo aeu2522's in stock size - that way there will be 2 alternatives for the rover guys like there is for the toy guys. Stock size replacement and 30/30 spline replacement.

Yess, stock size AUE 2522's in better material have my vote. Do them without the outside flats, and Maxi-Drive's press on ABS rings will fit.

I'd buy 2 or 3 of 'em if they existed.

Is Bobby trying to make Rover parts or make us conversion parts to Toyota swivel balls and housings?

JP

I would like to see the R60665 (early Rangey) in chromalloy but with say a 30 spline outer hole instead of ten spline. That way Mr Long could make press in outer shafts in varios lengths and spline configurations to suit all the different LandRover models, Toyotas, Nissans, Volvo's and my own hybrid portals.
One size fits all should keep costs low.
Bill.

HEY! Who took those swanky pictures!?!?

:flipoff2:

I would like to see the R60665 (early Rangey) in chromalloy but with say a 30 spline outer hole instead of ten spline. That way Mr Long could make press in outer shafts in varios lengths and spline configurations to suit all the different LandRover models, Toyotas, Nissans, Volvo's and my own hybrid portals.
One size fits all should keep costs low.
Bill.

This sounds like a great idea Bill - that way Bobby could make one CV for all applications (just with different stars with different splines) - and make a whole lot of different stub axles, all with a 30 spline CV end.

Oh and thanks Mike for taking such "swanky" pictures. Do you have a classic rangie CV lying around that you can take a pic of so Bobby can see what the hell Bill is talking about.

This keeps getting better, please make it happen.

I will need one set for the Defender and one for the Volvo's

This sounds like a great idea Bill - that way Bobby could make one CV for all applications (just with different stars with different splines) - and make a whole lot of different stub axles, all with a 30 spline CV end.

Oh and thanks Mike for taking such "swanky" pictures. Do you have a classic rangie CV lying around that you can take a pic of so Bobby can see what the hell Bill is talking about.
Ben,
Just took some pics of the R606665 cv from an early (10 spline) rangie.

I believe there are other steels that might be better than 4340 or 300M for cv's (birfields).

Some years ago we had to design a stamping head to stamp product numbers on ingots. The head had 2 rows of stamps, which had to be easy to change and had to self align with the surface of the ingots where they stopped on the conveyor line. So the head had several interlocking parts and nasty stress raisers. The stamp was driven by an impact cylinder that generated high impact loads when it stamped.

The 1st head was made from heat treated 4140 (a chrome moly steel not quite as strong as 4340). Unfortunately this head failed on it's 1st go.

The next was made from EN26, which has superior mechanical properties than 4340. This head was better but still only lasted a few hours.

After much research a head was made from a Tyssen (german company) steel of a grade I cant think of at the top of my head. This head has been working now for many years.

About 3 or 4 years ago we had to design a similar stamping head for another client. This was made from a similar class of steel from Bohler (another German company) grade K600.

That is very interesting John. The US aftermarket does seem obsessed with Chromalloy and after reading your post I am wondering if it really is a superior metal compared to what is used as original equipment on European and Japanese made vehicles. I personally believe that material quality on Defender and Disco's is crap, little better than mild steel.but I knew a guy years ago who owned an 85 110 county. he worked for General Motors in Melbourne and had access to their Metallurgy department. At home he had all sorts of 110 mechanical components that had been sliced through and polished for analyses to determin material quality, heat treatment, hardness depth etc. His opinion was that material quality and production processes were of a very high standard and were only short of optimum by occasional bad design, such as using obsolete Spiral Bevel ring and pinions, undersized course spline shafts, fine tooth gears etc.
Bill.

Wow! I did not realize that there were that many different types out there. Maybe later we will look at it but for now we are just gonna work with revor on it. His idea works pretty good. He make the toyota birfs fit. :)

Thanks

The problem with revors solution is that is excludes all the ABS rigs. Or have you solved that?

Longfield,Anybody with a lathe and welder can make things fit. I did the Toyota Birf conversion 20 years ago, but the trick is to have strong CV's without compromising the strength of the Rover spindles by having to bore them out.
I have seen my fair share of broken spindles on most brands of 4wd's available here in Australia and would feel quite nervous about driving on our corrugated outback roads with bored out units, not to mention that it is illegal over here.
Bill.

wow, i was under the impression that the spindles would do fine. even bored out.

spindles: i think it depends on which type you have. Non-abs spindles have the flat-spot machined into them, which makes it pretty close with boring them out. I noticed that my abs spindles (91 rrc) do not have this flat spot, and look like they would have better tolerances. Same goes for the long-snout 110 2522 OEM spindles - no flat spot on those, either.

fwiw.

Keith (AKA Revor),

When do you plan to have a set installed and running/ tested?

will these non-abs type spindles fit on just about any rover axle? say a 95 disco for instance? :D
actually i am kidding, i believe this has been discussed a number of times. my real questions is where to find said spindles for real cheap.

Spindles do not break at the threaded area, it doesn't matter if you have flats or slots,if you have a bored out spindle,cut all the way through and file the sharp edges smooth. It will never fail there. If and when spindles break they do so at the shoulder where the inner bearing diameter meets the oil seal diameter, or at the flange on series vehicles which have a removable seal ring . As I said earlier, I did the Toy Birf conversion years ago on a series truck and for a DD in Australian conditions (long distances on crap roads) I would not consider boring out a spindle ever again. Some people get away with it, but I have too much negative Karma racked up to take the chance again.
Bill.

Wow! I did not realize that there were that many different types out there. Maybe later we will look at it but for now we are just gonna work with revor on it. His idea works pretty good. He make the toyota birfs fit. :)

Thanks

Bobby, there are 3 different CV's but they are ALL THE SAME SIZE AS A TOY MINITRUCK CV - all the internals and externaly are completely interchengeable with a toy minitruck, just the splines are different.

What Bill (portalrover) suggested about making a CV without the stub shaft - just with a toy 30 spline broached in the bell - would mean you could use the same CV's for lots of applications, including:

Rover
Toy
Volvo C303 portals
Nissan (big nissan not the small one in the US - there is a huge market for strengthened CV's for these things in Australia).
And lots more

It woulc just mean that you would need stars and stub shafts for each application (but someone else - i.e. revor/keith could handle that end).

It would mean that you would sell a lot more CV's because people will be able to fit them without serious mods. e.g. I will be buying some 30/30 longs next year to convert my offroad rig, but I don't want to bore the front spindles on my heavy ass diesel DD rig. But if I could get a second set of CV's with a 23 spline star and 30 spline broached in the bell I would buy a second set for my DD rig and get outer 30/24 spline stub shafts made to suit. I'm sure there are plenty of people who would do this too if it were possible.

Your argument is a sound one Ben, but I think I am the only one listening.
Bill.

Your argument is a sound one Ben, but I think I am the only one listening.
Bill.

I think you are right Bill. Bobby could probably sell about 500 pairs straight off to all the comp nissan drivers in Oz if he did do this though.

I think you are right Bill. Bobby could probably sell about 500 pairs straight off to all the comp nissan drivers in Oz if he did do this though.


Maybe email him your response.

Maybe email him your response.
Yes I agree, email him your response.

Bobby, there are 3 different CV's but they are ALL THE SAME SIZE AS A TOY MINITRUCK CV - all the internals and externaly are completely interchengeable with a toy minitruck, just the splines are different.

.

This may be misleading to the uninitiated. We could NOT get the AEU2522's innards to work in the Toy birf bell. We could also NOT get the AEU2522 innards into the stock 32 spline Rover CV bells. Not sure why, maybe you guys get different stuff down there?

Plus the 2522's outer axle portion is significantly longer than the 32 spline version. And their lengths are not exactly the same as the toy birfs. Close, but not the same.

I know I am splitting hairs here, but it may make a difference to a non-rover dude looking at this stuff.

Billster

Now if Rover cv parts are not interchangaeble, Bobby could just make a 30 spline broached toy bell without a stub shaft and 300M stars with differnt splines that would work?

This may be misleading to the uninitiated. We could NOT get the AEU2522's innards to work in the Toy birf bell. We could also NOT get the AEU2522 innards into the stock 32 spline Rover CV bells. Not sure why, maybe you guys get different stuff down there?

Plus the 2522's outer axle portion is significantly longer than the 32 spline version. And their lengths are not exactly the same as the toy birfs. Close, but not the same.

I know I am splitting hairs here, but it may make a difference to a non-rover dude looking at this stuff.

Billster

I didn't mention the 32 spline CV's - only the 3 "decent" CV's with 23 spline inners. Maybe there are some slight differences between the US and OZ CV's, but it doesn't really matter, since Bobby has (I understand) made the balls smaller (then stock toy) in the 30/30 longs. What I am getting at, is the toy CV is about the same size (or slightly smaller) than lots of CV's used in lots of trucks. So if a "generic" longfield could be made that was broached to 30 spline in the bell and had 5 or so star spline options it would sell realy well IMHO.

Billster, I am currently using 23 spline LandRover innards in Toyota Bells. one side is a 45 series Landcruiser and the other is a Hilux or Minitruck as they may be known in the US so its doubtful that we would get different birfs to yourselves. I have also swapped Landrover innards with gQ Nissan Patrol bells.Unfortunately I dont think my suggestion about making one size Birfield with plug in outer shafts to suit different trucks would work. i just did a quick measure of an early RangeRover spindle bush and the hole measures about 44mm. the hole in a Toyota spindle bush would be about 34mm going by a Toy birfield I just measured with a ruler because I have misplaced my vernier. I dont have a Toyota spindle but I seriously doubt that its bush could be bored out to 44mm. Still,I cannot see why it would be difficult for longfields to make a standard size Birf with a blank outershaft long enough and large enough to spline to order.
Bill.

The idea could still work Bill, it may just need adaptor kits for other applications - he could team up with revor for rover adaptors, someone else for nissan and so forth - the only other parts that would need making are a stub shaft and possibly a different spindle bush for each application. Bobby is already making a 27/30 and 30/30 spline longfield. It wouldn't be much extra hassle for him to make a 30 spl broached longfield and couple of extra stars.

The star splines needed would be:
23 spline 1.24" Rover
31 spline 1.26" GQ and GU Patrol
Whatever inner spline the volvo C303 portals have
and whatever else there is a demand for.

what I was referring to Ben was the size of the bush hole in the toyota spindle. I think it would have to be at least 46mm in diameter in order to fit the Rangerover size outer Birfield snout with a 1mm wall thickness bush.
Naturally Toyotas would get Priority at Longfields over other brands so modifications to the Toyota spindles other than fitting a revised bush,in order to fit a redesigned Birfield probably wouldn't go over too well. BTW Volvo's have the same 23 spline stars as Rovers.
bill.

what I was referring to Ben was the size of the bush hole in the toyota spindle. I think it would have to be at least 46mm in diameter in order to fit the Rangerover size outer Birfield snout with a 1mm wall thickness bush.
Naturally Toyotas would get Priority at Longfields over other brands so modifications to the Toyota spindles other than fitting a revised bush,in order to fit a redesigned Birfield probably wouldn't go over too well. BTW Volvo's have the same 23 spline stars as Rovers.
bill.

Yes but what I was saying is that it wouldn't be hard for someone (a vendor) to make brass bushes to fit the toy longfields in a rover housing - if the splines were a match, you just need the CV, the stub, and a brass bush - a lot easier than: A CV, an inner, a machined or new spindle, a brass bush, and a new drive flange.

It seems to me that you guys confused the issue by throwing out each of your "dream" CV's and now we get nothing! You have to walk before you can crawl...

Personally, I would suggest he just make an AEU2522 compatable CV. Parts to fit these to other Rover axles are currently available and off the shelf, so no further work is requires. Plus, most people running larger tires have already switched to this CV.

Should be very simple to just have the outers machined to the Rover bush and stub shaft instead of the Toy one and the inner broached to 23 spline instead of 30 when getting them made. The rest of the CV can stay the same as the Toy units. Should really be no more effort than the 30/30 Toy units being made at the moment.

It seems to me that you guys confused the issue by throwing out each of your "dream" CV's and now we get nothing! You have to walk before you can crawl...
I dont get your point, What do you call our dream CV ? A chromealloy Rover one? Bobby Longfield a few posts back said they wont be making those in the forseeable future. Is our dream CV a Chromalloy Toyota one? with all the extra mods, (some questionable safetywise) required to make them fit our Rovers I would hesitate to call that the stuff my dreams are made of either.
We had "Nothing " before, and we are no worse off now, but we have made a few suggestions and you never know what may come of it.
Bill.

Personally, I would suggest he just make an AEU2522 compatable CV. Parts to fit these to other Rover axles are currently available and off the shelf, so no further work is requires. Plus, most people running larger tires have already switched to this CV.

Should be very simple to just have the outers machined to the Rover bush and stub shaft instead of the Toy one and the inner broached to 23 spline instead of 30 when getting them made. The rest of the CV can stay the same as the Toy units. Should really be no more effort than the 30/30 Toy units being made at the moment.

Well put. Essentially my point exactly!

Personally, I would suggest he just make an AEU2522 compatable CV. Parts to fit these to other Rover axles are currently available and off the shelf, so no further work is requires. Plus, most people running larger tires have already switched to this CV.

Should be very simple to just have the outers machined to the Rover bush and stub shaft instead of the Toy one and the inner broached to 23 spline instead of 30 when getting them made. The rest of the CV can stay the same as the Toy units. Should really be no more effort than the 30/30 Toy units being made at the moment.

That would be ideal for us John, but Bobby already said earlier in the thread that he wasn't going to make a rover CV at the moment (possibly because he thinks the market isn't big enough). Bill's idea of making a generic CV that can be used in land-rover, nissan etc would expand the market to justify the extra work bobby would have to go to.

I believe he wasn't going to make one because he felt there were tons of different types. Really he only needs to make one type. And all it would involve is slightly different final machining. So running a batch should be simple and not involve much extra cost. I'm sure 500 would go out the door pretty quickly.

I talked to Bobby right after he started this thread and he said he did not realize how many different types there were and did not think there would be enough volume to cover his minimum order (not sure where he was coming up with the estimated amount of sales).

Does anyone know if he was sent a Rover CV?

Hopefully someone comes up with something decent, I have two rovers that I want to upgrade but have been waiting to see what happens with Bobby/Keith/GBR

The information I posted about the different types was just to show that all the "decent" CV's are essentially the same internals (and the same as the toy CV - despite what Billster says since a lot of people have managed to swap parts between AEU2522's and toy CV's), all have the same inner spline, the only difference is the stub. As John said, everyone doing things that would break CV'S has switched to the AEU2522, so that would be the best one for Bobby to make.

I talked to Bobby right after he posted this and he said he did not realize how many different types there were and did not think there would be enough volume to cover his minimum order (not sure where he was coming up with the estimated amount of sales).


This was my point exactly. He has a business to run, he doesn't just do this because he's a good guy, although I'm sure he is! He needs to see that he can make a profit on this venture. If we can find out what he considers a "minimum order" maybe we can help send some business his way and in the process get some better CV's.

I won't even bother with anything Rover...if one is willing to put GBR axles with 24 splines, and spend 500$ a set for R&Ps, and so forth...doing the math will get you set back to +5000K USD...the Toy route, WITH the current CVs Bobby is doing (27 OR 30) is a FAR cheaper, long lasting, and stronger set-up...

I'd not look at ANYTHING modified for Rovers, I'm still waiting for my 30s from Bobby & Keith for the front end, and after flogging the hell off the truck on 36s for 4 straight days on the stock Toy aftermarket 25$ CVs, I'm happy to stick to Toy stuff...

Anyways, my POV...

Guess I shouldn't stay away for so long!
What Is the "perfect" CV? For marketing it is a short stub (Disco/lateD90) CV with ABS rings built in, with a 24 spline star and a 24 spline stub.. That is the vast majority of folks of fronts that I convert to the 2522.. And that's only been about 16 sets in a year and a half..

But then what about the guys that push harder? The guys that break gears? Are these the Guys that are willing to put a Toy, a 9" or a 60 in the front of their truck? They want all they can get! They want 30 splines!
If you are going to all that effort to do a different diff then why not go a tiny bit further and do the spindle work and buy a new flange and use Toy birfs?
We all know that the Rover Diff lacks strength especially in low ratios so why bother with 24 splines at all?

You see there are many quandries in sticking your wallet out that far... If I get a firm Purchase order for 500 AEU2522's I'll go for it! But the Rover market (here in the US) is very slow to respond to anything and quite typically folks build the car slowly.. It's an expensive toy! People spend a lot of time making up their minds and even less $$$ making the mods..

If I could be convinced of a direction there is a chance that a CV like this could happen, but for Mass Marketing it would have to be a good argument!

PM me guys! I am really interested to hear what the thoughts are off board!! They might be the same as on the board but i can't think so well with so many people talking at once!

I have a vested interest as I just invested a ton of $$$ in steel for Drive flanges and a direction for Spline count is avoiding me..

I will be putting the first set of these in My Disco next week.. A report on performance will follow shortly!!

Later
Keith
www.rovertracks.com Don't look at the website it hasn't changed... But it will soon!!!!

What Is the "perfect" CV? For marketing it is a short stub (Disco/lateD90) CV with ABS rings built in, with a 24 spline star and a 24 spline stub.. That is the vast majority of folks of fronts that I convert to the 2522.. And that's only been about 16 sets in a year and a half..

But then what about the guys that push harder? The guys that break gears? Are these the Guys that are willing to put a Toy, a 9" or a 60 in the front of their truck? They want all they can get! They want 30 splines!
If you are going to all that effort to do a different diff then why not go a tiny bit further and do the spindle work and buy a new flange and use Toy birfs?
We all know that the Rover Diff lacks strength especially in low ratios so why bother with 24 splines at all

Since you asked :D

Why not offer one that is based off the standard CV (disco/late 90) with an option for the 24 and 30 spline star :confused: . The CV would not change just the star, this way you could have 1 CV and please both groups.

OR What about working with Bobby? He already has everything in place and it would save you time and $$. If I remember correct he told me that he needed to order 100 at a time. I am sure that 50 people would buy bling bling CV’s.

I really think that the reason people are not buying that many 2522 kits is that they do not feel that it is worth spending that much money to upgrade to the 2522. I also think that people are waiting on GBR’s new CV and you would see many people buy the CV that had been waiting on GBR

Dave,

I think revor has actually ponied up with bobby, however, i don't think anyone is waiting for the suppa duppa CVs from GBR or the enhanced AEU2522 as this will bring us back to expensive, weak, and useless upgrades that we all know of...it i ACTUALLY CHEAPER to run a toy set-up!!!!

Disagree. A better AEU2522 is exactly what is needed to keep the car legal in Europe, still have ABS, and be able to use normal LR spares en route on longer trips.

DiscoDino, The 30/30 Longfield CV is aviable, so if you need that level off strength it is a great way to go.

What I'm getting at is there are tons of people who currently have aftermarket 24 spline diffs, aftermarket, 24/23 spline shafts, bushing and flanges to fit the AEU2522. Longfield could make the 23/24 spline version with little effort and would provide a much cheaper alternative for those who find the current 24/23 spline inners are strong enough.

If it is 100 CVs (50 sets) that are needed, I'm pretty sure that we could find that many to commit in advance. I'll start another thread to check interest.

Discodino,

Sorry, I was not very clear with what I was trying to say.

I think the best option would be to offer a new CV (by longfield or??) that is the same external shape as the standard (disco/late 90) but with the same internals as bobby’s new CV.

The reason I say to make it like the (disco/ late 90) is because you would not need new drive flanges and other adapters to make it work. The CV is about the same size as Bobby’s new CV so there should not be much/any
difference in strength.

(Hopefully that was better)

Keep in mind that just because something is designed to work with a rover it does not have to be expensive.

Dave,

I think revor has actually ponied up with bobby, however, i don't think anyone is waiting for the suppa duppa CVs from GBR or the enhanced AEU2522 as this will bring us back to expensive, weak, and useless upgrades that we all know of...it i ACTUALLY CHEAPER to run a toy set-up!!!!
You seem to miss the point Disco.Aside from the fact that many of us have already shelled out lots of money for 24 spline MD/McNamara lockers/inner shafts etc and are happy with them, bored out spindles are illegal in many countries, and although it is basically an invisible mod, some of us have reservations about the safety of doing so. besides, there is nothing wrong with a quality 24 spline shaft. I predate crap Defenders and Dicoveries and recall the enormous punishment that the higher quality rear axles on series 3, stage 1's and 110's could stand up to with lockers, Q78 swampers and some pretty hamfisted driving.
Bill.

yeah, i seem to have indeed missed the point and do stand corrected...

My decision/rationale is based on 0% investment to the best set-up once and forall, which is what I am doing given that I held out on the GBR/MD stuff for 3 years after figuring out the JM stuff...

Seems that there is indeed a great demand for these "better" AEUs, as per the other thread as well, but at least not for my truck...

As long as whatever we do keeps the Rovers more on the trail than the garage, then I'll support it.

P.S. I know the 30 Cromos are out, but I'm waiting on Rover 30/30 cromo axles to suit...I should have had one of the 1st set, and we're still working on it before I leave the US on Monday evening!

I will pursue it.. Not sure which yet... Either the 2522 of the later Disco/D90 pattern I know most here would not be "into" tone rings for their ABS so i will do that seprately at additional cost.. I would probably foresee a 24X24X24 front set up which is only 1/16" smaller than the 1.3125" 31 spline setup... This would be best for the masses with a standard Long toy birf comming in to cover the more extreme users..

We'll see..
Keith
wwwrovertracks.com

My vote is for the 2522. I think there is currently a market for this. I also think this market will continue to grow as it is widely accepted that LR's are the biggest off-roading bargain out there. Their only downside is the expense of upgrading to stronger aftermarket drivetrain. Some of the drivetrain is starting to come together.

I think like you Larry..
I personally lean towards the 2522 myself as you can make it work with all the spindles Rover offers, even Series stuff.. The short Disco pattern would be best for the "less than wealthy?" masses that cannot afford another $300 (+/_) bux on top of CV's and Axles, for the bushings and Drive flanges.. It is a hard choice..


Later
Keith

IMO i think the aeu2522 would be a good start from a business point of view. As the guys that are likely to need/buy a chromo cv probably have already gone this route,(2522) and theres all the gear needed to convert if not. now if you have spent the $$$ converting you are more likely to buy if you don't have to change yet again. I have a totally stock front end in 98 D110 but would be happy with the aeu2522 pattern and having to pay a bit more to convert.
cheers, Serg