Marlin Crawler Formula Toyota [Archive] - Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board

Chris Geiger

11-12-2004, 04:17 PM

Uh, I've seen Marlin drive... :eek: , who's gonna wheel it? Cause I know he'll be welding some other competitors junk and miss his start time. :laughing:

Great idea, BTW, and has to be good for your shop and the sport in general. :beer:

Doc

Marlin would rather fix other toys than drive. If we had the cash we would get marlin an 18 wheeler and have him set up his own repair shop at the events! Look for Marlin to be at the events this year with wrenches in hand. He will be doing his best to keep all the Formula Toys running well.

I'll be doing most of the compitition driving. If we can get this together before the first event of the year, we are going to give Lisa some compitition!

Aaronn

11-12-2004, 04:44 PM

:rolleyes: took you long enough :flipoff2:

85runnerAZ

11-12-2004, 05:01 PM

I think your job falls under the "Dream Job" category. Damn I am jealous.

a2b

11-12-2004, 05:12 PM

ya i was wondering if yall were going to do one. now where's the all pro offroad one????? they do say they are the "toyota rock crawling specialst"

Max Volume

11-12-2004, 05:40 PM

ya i was wondering if yall were going to do one. now where's the all pro offroad one????? they do say they are the "toyota rock crawling specialst"

If your refering to the one i won at the jambo last year. :flipoff2: Troy at cal-mini is now the new owner. I needed a daily driver more than another rock crawler. But its not going to be formulized. (3.4 Taco V6) :D

Chris Geiger

11-12-2004, 05:45 PM

ya i was wondering if yall were going to do one. now where's the all pro offroad one????? they do say they are the "toyota rock crawling specialst"

I don't think Profields are going to be up to the task, but they might be ok for stock tires! I'll be running Bellfield joints thank-you!

Longfield

11-12-2004, 05:54 PM

I don't think Profields are going to be up to the task, but they might be ok for stock tires! I'll be running Bellfield joints thank-you!

Looks good its a start good to see another one out their, NEED any birfs let me know HA. HA. :)

Chris Geiger

11-12-2004, 07:33 PM

The rules state 4.10 gears must be used. We just happen to have a couple of factory new R&P gear sets that were removed from electric locked diffs sitting on the shelf. The front set came out of an 8" FJ80 and is reverse cut. The rear set came out of a new TRD 8" rear Tacoma diff. The interesting thing about these electric style gears is they use a larger 30 spline shaft and flange. Normal 8" gears use a smaller 27 spline shaft and flange. This is not a major failure point but is an interesting difference. FYI if you use these electric gears in a non electric housing, make sure to use the matching electric style flange!

Here is a close up of the spline...

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/003.jpg

JeepRecoveryTeam

11-12-2004, 08:02 PM

Looks good its a start good to see another one out their, NEED any birfs let me know HA. HA. :)

Quit trying to help the competition Bobby :D ;)

Lemoore-on

11-12-2004, 08:07 PM

Good to see you guys joining the mix and it will be good to see Marlin out more.

Quick hi-jack, I installed the 4.70 gears I got from you guys a couple of weeks ago, in my rear case last weekend. It was a piece of cake with your new instructions. Installed the Tcase today had to do the obligatory walk along side and steer, doing this :grinpimp: the whole time.

TatonkaII

11-12-2004, 08:30 PM

Chris Geiger

11-12-2004, 08:42 PM

Hey Chris.. so if this is the case... I use to have a Tacoma with w. E-locker (stock 4.10s as you stated) and went to 4.88s, how come it didnt need the a older flange? or visa-virsa..I still have these "30" spindle gears..so they wouldnt just fit into and run in an older 8" housing??

If you order 4.88 or 5.29 gears for a Tacoma rear 8" diff, the gear set should have the larger pinion, thus it will fit your existing, larger electric style flange.

The "extra" 4.10 gears you have will fit the older style housings. That's exactly what we are doing. We are installing the later electric gears in to non electric housings. I prefer Detroits but for this application we will be using ARB's. I believe the ARB's will give the best ability to turn.

I like the electric lockers I have front and rear on my FJ80 but the ARB's lock and unlock faster than the electrics do.

TatonkaII

11-12-2004, 08:44 PM

what if I want to replace my older (85' 4.10s) with the newer 4.10s???

Chris Geiger

11-12-2004, 08:58 PM

what if I want to replace my older (85' 4.10s) with the newer 4.10s???

Just use the larger electric style flange and the gears will work fine.

Air Ride

11-12-2004, 10:48 PM

hey Chris how about S/N 028

waverider

11-13-2004, 06:39 AM

I'm happy to see you guys entering the Formula Toy class. Looking forward to the buildup. Best of luck to you!

Foxfab

11-13-2004, 07:27 AM

Gawd I hate it when people say this. I call bullshit on this one... maybe if they are wired from the factory, but not if its a homebrew wiring job.

I like the electric lockers I have front and rear on my FJ80 but the ARB's lock and unlock faster than the electrics do.

RE:Todd

11-13-2004, 11:17 AM

I'll be doing most of the compitition driving. If we can get this together before the first event of the year, we are going to give Lisa some compitition!I think it's that other Marlin sponsored rig you'll have to worry about :D :D

Booger Weldz

11-13-2004, 11:46 AM

Gawd I hate it when people say this. I call bullshit on this one... maybe if they are wired from the factory, but not if its a homebrew wiring job.

my brothers TRD taco takes like 30 seconds to engage/unlock maybe longer??? (factory setup). my arb engages almost instantly, but sometimes wont disengage for awhile if im still bound up on an obstacle....

TatonkaII

11-13-2004, 12:30 PM

my re wired TRD locker was maybe... 3 secs.. most.. not long at all. I dunno whats goin on with yalls.

Foxfab

11-13-2004, 01:54 PM

Chris Geiger

11-13-2004, 02:46 PM

hey Chris how about S/N 028

Number 028 it is! Thank you for the number!

Today I attacked the frame with the hot wrench and sliced off most of the unneeded body mounts.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/004.jpg

TRed

11-13-2004, 03:00 PM

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/001.jpg Dam dude, that shop looks more like a yard! Makes All Pro look mint. :flipoff2:

Chris Geiger

11-13-2004, 03:01 PM

The factory wiring sucks. I can lock up both my FZJ80 AND my 4Runner e-lockers within 2-3 seconds using a relay setup, its almost instantaneous. Now unplug the air line from your ARB and I'll unplug the power from my e-locker. Who will be crying now??? :flipoff2:

What I see with my FJ80 is that nothing happens when I turn on the lockers until I roll forward or back and turn at the same time. For this truck it's not a real problem on this truck, just turn it on before getting to the hard section.

In competition I won't have the room to roll very far. I know that both the ARB and Elocker won't unlock until most of the load is removed.

Seems like most times I am out on the trail I see someone with ARB problems, seals blown, compressor or air line problems. I would prefer to use a Toyota locker and it costs about 1/2 as much. I have plenty of both units on the shelves.

What to do...

Anyone else have comments as to the lock/unlock speed of electrics vs. ARB? I think I'll post up another thread.

Heywood

11-13-2004, 03:12 PM

What to do...

Anyone else have comments as to the lock/unlock speed of electrics vs. ARB? I think I'll post up another thread.

How about the cost difference?

I got my HP elec 3rd brand new from Toyota (with a small discount) for $750

How much is a Hp arb 3rd going for over there at Marlin, $1500?
And you need compressor too.

Im not saying elec is better, but I couldnt justify the extra $700 per diff.

Chris Geiger

11-13-2004, 03:12 PM

You should have seen it when I arrived this time last year. You could just barley move a truck into the shop. Now each day all the employees are able to park in the yard plus our two trailers. We still have about 6 trucks to get rid of. We are making progress.

Speaking of trucks in the backyard... anyone want to buy a 4Runner? This partially completed truck has a new fully rebuilt 350 motors and tranny installed. It still needs a wire harness and some finish works to get it running. $8,000 gets the whole thing.

gnob

11-14-2004, 01:24 PM

Chris Geiger

11-17-2004, 01:04 PM

Rocky built up our diffs, front ARB high pinion, rear V6 with Detroit.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/005.jpg

Now it's onto the housings!

Chris Geiger

11-17-2004, 01:15 PM

Next it's time to shave the housings.

For those that have not seen this trick before, you can cut off the bottom of the housings and plate it to increase ground clearance. We are going to do a step by step description to show some of the tricks to getting this done without leaks.

The first step is to cut out the bottom sction with a plasma cutter or torch. You must leave the ring around the housing that has the bolts in it.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/006.jpg

Using a grinder, we clean up the cutting and doing the final shaping of the hole.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/007.jpg

Chris Geiger

11-17-2004, 01:23 PM

Note the thre arrows in the photo below, these are the three places most likily to leak. Andy welded up each of these points to ensure we had no leaks later on.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/008.jpg

Before plating, we install a junk 3rd member. We don't use a good third member because of all the metal particles from welding and grinding can damage the gears and lockers.

The two bottom studs (top in photo) are removed and replaced with bolts. These bolts will later serve as drain plugs.

The 3rd member is bolted in place. This helps prevent bending and warpage of the housing during welding and fitting.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/009.jpg

Using a vise and a hammer 2.5" X 1/4" plate steel is bent to fit the angle shown. Then it is placed on the diff and marked for cutting.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/010.jpg

Chris Geiger

11-17-2004, 01:51 PM

A small piece of 3/16" steel (see arrow) is used as a spacer between the ring gear and the new plate material. This spacer ensures the new plate is as close as possible but still have enough room for oiling.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/011.jpg

With the spacer in place the section is tack welded into place.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/012.jpg

The other sections are cut from 1/4" plate and fitted into place using a grinder.

After the pieces are fitted into place, a grinder is used to bevel the edges. This makes for a nice weld when your done.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/013.jpg

4RnrRick

11-17-2004, 01:51 PM

......The two bottom studs (top in photo) are removed and replaced with bolts. These bolts will later serve as drain plugs.....

I don't mean to hijack here but I've had nothing but problems with my two lower bolts loosening up and then start leaking. I just can't seem to keep them tight. So I'm going to be locktighting the studs back in and I will just pull the diff if I need to drain it! I'm just gettign tired of having my toyota be like a chevy - Marking its territory :shaking: ....

desertoy

11-17-2004, 02:07 PM

We need toput the pressure on All-Pro to build a Formula Toy. Then it would be fully on:D:D:D

Chris Geiger

11-17-2004, 02:14 PM

We need toput the pressure on All-Pro to build a Formula Toy. Then it would be fully on:D:D:D

Bring it awn! :flipoff2:

I might actually have to put the camera down and drive with both hands on the wheel!

Chris Geiger

11-17-2004, 02:15 PM

I don't mean to hijack here but I've had nothing but problems with my two lower bolts loosening up and then start leaking. I just can't seem to keep them tight. So I'm going to be locktighting the studs back in and I will just pull the diff if I need to drain it! I'm just gettign tired of having my toyota be like a chevy - Marking its territory :shaking: ....

Have you tried silicon on the threads? I have not had a problem with them coming loose.

Chris Geiger

11-17-2004, 03:52 PM

Finish welding...

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/014.jpg

For ring gear protection we installed one of our Differential Armor Rock Plates. For this application we trimed a little off the bottom before installing it.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/015.jpg

Once the housing has cooled down, the 3rd member and 3/16" spacer are removed.

vikingsven

11-17-2004, 03:54 PM

Looks great Chris.
Thanks for the very clear tech. :beer:

EvlDodge

11-17-2004, 04:08 PM

Sweet!
Keep going!
Love the pics with the updates.

4RnrRick

11-17-2004, 04:13 PM

Have you tried silicon on the threads?

Yes.... No luck. The problem I have is they loosen up and Then start to leak. Lock washers are not even holding them in place! And this is just driving and mild wheeling, so Its not like I'm dragging it around on the rocks and they are getting unscrewed somehow.... again I don't mean to hijack the thread, its just something that I've been fighting with using bolts.

RocKrawler

11-17-2004, 04:18 PM

I might actually have to put the camera down and drive with both hands on the wheel!

Hey Chris... RIGHT REAR :flipoff2:

Max Volume

11-17-2004, 04:41 PM

I might actually have to put the camera down and drive with both hands on the wheel!

Was that a slam on the other FT drivers... or a compliment to jon. :flipoff2:

Chris Geiger

11-17-2004, 05:12 PM

Was that a slam on the other FT drivers... or a compliment to jon. :flipoff2:

Jon's great driver, no doubt about that. Yes, that's a compliment.

RE:Todd

11-17-2004, 05:20 PM

Was that a slam on the other FT drivers... or a compliment to jon. :flipoff2:Until he goes up against Team Tin :skull: Bender that is :D :D

Chris Geiger

11-17-2004, 05:29 PM

Now for the inside. It's important to weld up teh inside too. This will help reduce the chance of a leak. Install the two bolts to protect the threads.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/016.jpg

Spray the inside with anti-spatter. This keeps the welding balls from attaching to the steel and later falling off and into the gear oil.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/017.jpg

Weld up each of the seams from the inside.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/018.jpg

a2b

11-17-2004, 05:38 PM

hey chris, thanks for the tech. i am just about to do the same thing.

Heywood

11-17-2004, 08:11 PM

How much ground clearance did you gain?

Chris Geiger

11-17-2004, 08:32 PM

We gained 1/2" of ground clearance at the back of the diff and nearly 1" under the front of the diff.

The rear diff will be rotated up so that the drive shaft points directly at the transfer case. On the rear we will see a full inch of increased ground clearance across the bottom.

After welding, the inside is wire wheeled clean. The tubes are wiped down, end to end using rags over the end of a length of tube. Then the housing is rinsed and dried. The idea is to remove any and all steel shavings and grit.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/019.jpg

Chris Geiger

11-17-2004, 09:19 PM

While Andy is working on the front axle couple of other details will be adressed.

The steering stops on these axles are a little under sized for offroad use. Plating them top and bottom only takes a few minutes and allows them to hold up better. We will be running a steering assist ram and we don't want the ram pushing the stops out of the way.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/020.jpg

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/021.jpg

Another clean up item is plating the spring perches. These perches can bend with steady off road use. Using 1/4 plate steel, small caps were made for the end of the perches. These covers are welded into place.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/022.jpg

Chris Geiger

11-17-2004, 09:22 PM

Hey Chris... RIGHT REAR :flipoff2:

Are you ready to spot again? We placed first last time, lets do it again!!!!!!!!!

4RnrRick

11-18-2004, 08:51 AM

Am I missing something here? Why did you plate the lower perch?? On my new axle I just ground it completely off and left a small lip for the u-bolt to rest against?

traxman25

11-18-2004, 09:14 AM

On my axle I completely boxed the perch, then cut a triangle out of the front, and plated over that. Did the 45 degree triangle to help keep from getting hung up. I also boxed in the other side to half way down the housing. I'm not worried about bending these perches. Guess I don't have pictures with me.
I also borrowed Rick's idea, and gusseted the knuckle balls, going to put on new shock mounts, reinforced the steering stops, and wishing I would have shaved the housing, but I already made all the skid plates.

Looking awesome Chris, thanks for the detailed right up on the housing. I might just have to change my mind on not shaving it. Just got to get my lazy bother to tig it all tho, cuz I don't want to stick all that. :barf: I can't wait to see the finished rig.

Adam

onetoncv

11-18-2004, 09:50 AM

And a set of .188 wall toy shafts made from your cores will work fine- Jess

whitebrowithafro

11-18-2004, 10:12 AM

Did Andy ever get "his" rig done?

Chris Geiger

11-18-2004, 10:32 AM

4RnrRick: Yes we could have removed most of the bottom mount, but it's so close to the diff we did not think it was worth the effort.

Jess: Once we get the engine/tranny/tcase placed we will be giving you a call for a set of your super heavy duty rock-crushing drive shafts!

whitebrowithafro: Yes Andys rig has been finished for about a year now. He has run many a trail with it. It's working great!

RocKrawler

11-18-2004, 10:56 AM

Are you ready to spot again? We placed first last time, lets do it again!!!!!!!!!

I'm in.. let me know when and where...

Bob Garrett

11-18-2004, 11:59 AM

After much discussion and a weekend of thought, we have desided to run a Detroit Locker in the rear and ARB in the front. Rocky built up our diffs using the gears shown above.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/005.jpg

Now it's onto the housings!

Haha! I happened to be watching the shop cam when that picture was taken! Now I know what the pic was for :grinpimp:

Bob

4RnrRick

11-18-2004, 01:28 PM

Web cam... Huh?

Oh, I found it now but its not working for me:
http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=6402.0

Chris Geiger

11-20-2004, 12:15 PM

Here are some shots of the rear housing being shaved and plated. We used the same process as the front housing.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/024.jpg

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/025.jpg

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/027.jpg

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/028.jpg

Chris Geiger

11-20-2004, 12:30 PM

http://www.webcam.com/ads/cam.gif

We now have our new remote control web camera working at our shop. This new camera will allow you to click on your screen and move the camera around the shop. On Sunday we will be bringing our Ftoy into the shop and rocky and I will be working on it all day. You will be able to watch us live as we work on it.

To access the robotic shop cam go here:
http://www.smilecam.com/marlincrawle
After the software loads, it will ask you for a password. The password is: demo
Next click "ok", now you will be able to see the video. Click on the screen to move the camera around the shop.

85runnerAZ

11-20-2004, 02:26 PM

Cool. Where is everyone?

Haha, the box is cool!! HI

TurtleTruck

11-20-2004, 02:38 PM

It is working for me... Marlin waved at me :D

TheRealTankota

11-20-2004, 03:41 PM

It is working for me... Marlin waved at me :D

Yes it working good. Didn't see any live peeps, but I chatted a little with Chris. Very cool addition to their site. Maybe tomorrow I'll watch them work on the f-toy. :smokin:

Chris Geiger

11-20-2004, 04:09 PM

We removed the spring perches on the rear axle for two reasons. One we want to rotate the rear axle up and two we want to inboard the rear springs for better articulation.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/023.jpg

After cutting the perches off with a torch, a grinder is used to clean off the last remnants of the perches.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/026.jpg

Later, after the springs are mounted, new perches will be added.

TheRealTankota

11-20-2004, 04:55 PM

We removed the spring perches on the rear axle for two reasons. One we want to rotate the rear axle up and two we want to inboard the rear springs for better articulation.

I've already done this to mine, but I have so much more work to do that i won't be able to test it for awhile.

Chris Geiger

11-21-2004, 10:01 PM

Today, I pulled out the drive train. Removed the steering box, driveshafts and brake lines. Spent a few more hours cutting and cleaning the frame.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/029.jpg

whitebrowithafro

11-22-2004, 06:30 PM

Cutting and cleaning the frame.... Didn't you learn Chris? Thats why you have "co-workers"

I know you remember your last build... :D

Have fun :beer:

pmurf1

11-22-2004, 06:41 PM

gtxracer

11-22-2004, 06:56 PM

More rear axle pics please! :D

Chris Geiger

11-22-2004, 08:19 PM

Cutting and cleaning the frame.... Didn't you learn Chris? Thats why you have "co-workers"

I know you remember your last build... :D

Have fun :beer:

I know you joking but really what does it mean to be a leader? I feel that if you want to be a leader you have to take the lead. If all I did was stand around and tell people what to do I believe they are less motivated than if they see me working right along side them.

I have worked for people that don't do anything except whine about how I am not working hard enough. It does not motivate me at all.

If you come to the shop, or check out our web cam you will see me doing all sorts of different things. I take orders, I ship orders, I stock inventory, I sweep the floor, I tap tie rods, I write, I fix the computers, I take out the trash.

I really want to build the Formula Toyota but the reality is that we are a busy shop and I can't just stop all the orders and build this truck. We are going to have to build it bits at a time. I personally really want to get it done so I am spending time after hours doing what I can to build it. Different parts of the truck will be done by different people at the shop. Most here at the shop are more skilled than I at building the various parts, so yes, I will be doing a lot of the grunt work.

Chris Geiger

11-22-2004, 08:24 PM

I looked on there, and all I saw was Chris spanking it to a 8" third in the bathroom? :flipoff2:

Assembly lube!

Heywood

11-24-2004, 01:03 AM

Done yet?
are you done yet
huh? huh?
:D

Chris Geiger

11-24-2004, 01:18 AM

Done yet?
are you done yet
huh? huh?
:D

Nothing done Monday or Tuesday. We have been so swapmed here at the shop we have not been able to get on it. We will be open Thursday and Friday at the shop, I am going to try to get some work done on it between phone calls on those days. We were expecting it to slow down this week, but things are busy as hell and I can't seem to get caught up with shipping orders.

I've got all the axle parts to completly reassemble both front and rear axles. I have springs ready to install and I have more frame cleaning to do. I have some cool ideas for the buildup and will be showing lots of photos of the intresting stuff.

Chris Geiger

11-30-2004, 09:59 PM

Before installing the front springs we are going to replace the hangers. To prevent the frame from bending during the cutting and welding, I added a piece of scrap steel between the frame rails. This will later be cut out and removed.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/030.jpg
The stock front spring mounts are weak and after repeated bashing on the rocks can and do fail. Also the corner welds where the front crossmember and frame rails come togther can be a weak spot causing frame brakage.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/031.jpg
After bracing the frame (above), the stock front crossmember is cut out with a torch.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/032.jpg
A front hanger assembly is fitted into place. With this hanger in place the spring mounting holes are now 1" higher and 1/2" forward of the factory mounts.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/033.jpg
Later the finish welding will be done and gussets added to tie in the front hanger to the frame rails.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/034.jpg

Front 3" lift springs and 2" over stock shackles are installed.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/035.jpg

Izeloz

11-30-2004, 10:02 PM

Usually people do drop hangers up front. Why a raised hanger? Just curious...

Chris Geiger

11-30-2004, 10:15 PM

Usually people do drop hangers up front. Why a raised hanger? Just curious...

A front hanger like this one is normally used to move the front mounts forward 1/2" and down 1". The drop in the front hanger helps restore caster caused by longer shackles and sliding the pin forward on the curve of the spring. It's also add needed lift for tire/body clearance. Caster is important for driving at speed on the freeway but is not really important for a rock crawler that will never see the street.

With a full body, you need lift to clear larger tires. With a buggy you don't have to worry about tires hitting the body. So less lift can be used along with larger tires. The result is the frame being the same height, but ends up with more clearance under the diff. On a pickup you might use a 5" lift with 37" tires. With this setup we will have about 3" of lift and 39" tires.

This front hanger will also be much stronger than the stock front crossmember and hangers were. The rear springs will also be lifted into the frame and inboarded to 29".

whitebrowithafro

11-30-2004, 10:17 PM

hello goon ball... its a comp rig... lower COG :shaking:

you drop a hanger to get more lift... away from the body.... this is a tube chassis

Air Ride

11-30-2004, 10:26 PM

Usually people do drop hangers up front. Why a raised hanger? Just curious...

I would guess its for a better approach angel. Very valuable in competition.

Izeloz

11-30-2004, 10:32 PM

Yeah...I considered the approach angle and COG/buggy ideas, but was kinda hung up on the caster idea. I guess it makes sense for a rock crawler to not need a great caster angle. I was mostly wondering if it had any benefits for a DD type rig. Looks like the answer to that is no.

Chris Geiger

11-30-2004, 10:40 PM

I would guess its for a better approach angel. Very valuable in competition.

Also true, I could have used a flatter spring and kept the front stock crossmember and used the new hanger under it but this would have brought the front hangers lower down, closer to the rocks.

For weight reduction, you also want to eliminate unneeded, redundant parts.

I would not do this on a street driven truck unless the knuckles were rotated to restore the caster.

JeepRecoveryTeam

11-30-2004, 10:43 PM

hello goon ball... its a comp rig... lower COG :shaking:

you drop a hanger to get more lift... away from the body.... this is a tube chassis

a guy builds a cool buggy and has it one weekend on the trail, and all of sudden he's an expert :flipoff2: :laughing:

Looks good Chris. Keep em coming

d

Chris Geiger

11-30-2004, 10:55 PM

The other way to look at it is: I did this on my last buggy, it worked well and I have not found any way to improve it, so I am doing it again!

Chris Geiger

11-30-2004, 11:16 PM

Turning back to the front axle, Rocky added on one of our "no hole" front upper gussets to prevent bending of the housing. This should help keep the axle straight when jumping sand dunes at Pismo Beach!

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/036.jpg

Chris Geiger

11-30-2004, 11:32 PM

Rocky bench tested the front ARB before putting it into the front housing, and tested it again after it was installed. He found that the ARB leaked air when installed. The unit was removed and taken back to the bench and retested. Again it tested fine on the bench.

Going back to the housings, he found that a small part of the fab work done to clearance the housing was touching the side of the ARB locker. This was putting light pressure on the seal housing and causing it to leak. A few seconds with a grinder were all that was needed to allow a gap between the seal and the axle housing.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/037.jpg

To prepare for the axle assembly, the inside of the brake dust shields were both cut out with a plasma cutter. The dust shields can trap rocks and generally just get in the way. The center 1" of the shield can be remove and used during the assembly to keep the parts spaced correctly. The outer sections will be discarded.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/038.jpg

4RnrRick

12-01-2004, 09:15 AM

Look'n good...... Pete and I also did a similiar front hanger on our Project Blu (cut the OEM off and replace it) .... Worked out great.

desertoy

12-01-2004, 09:24 AM

Looks good Chris. As a suggestion you need to gusset the INSIDE corners of the front x-member/spring hanger. Also you need to gusset the outside of the front housing where the ball welds in.

Chris Geiger

12-01-2004, 09:41 AM

Looks good Chris. As a suggestion you need to gusset the INSIDE corners of the front x-member/spring hanger. Also you need to gusset the outside of the front housing where the ball welds in.

The last time I did this front hanger setup I used 5" long tubes from the frame to the front hanger on both sides. For this project Andy will be installing a Saginaw power steering box on the inside of the frame rail. I'll wait to install the gussets until I see where the box ends up.

Next step is to place the front axle under the truck, then install the steering box, and then I can finish the front gussets.

Turtle Bite

12-01-2004, 10:37 AM

I am running a saginaw inside the frame frame box, with a hanger similar to yours. I am very happy with it so far and would do it again. What pitman arm do you plan on using? Cool project.

94toytruck

12-01-2004, 10:53 AM

bada$$ project guys.man i wish my shop would do something like this.keep up the good work guys.

vikingsven

12-01-2004, 11:24 AM

The last time I did this front hanger setup I used 5" long tubes from the frame to the front hanger on both sides. For this project Andy will be installing a Saginaw power steering box on the inside of the frame rail. I'll wait to install the gussets until I see where the box ends up.

Next step is to place the front axle under the truck, then install the steering box, and then I can finish the front gussets.

What's the advantage to running a saginaw box instead of a toy IFS box?

Chris Geiger

12-01-2004, 12:10 PM

What's the advantage to running a saginaw box instead of a toy IFS box?

The Saginaw box with a matching pump will put out more turning power and volume than the Toyota box and pump. Our plan now, is to run the Saginaw setup instead of doing ram assist. Andy has been running this system on his 2900 lb buggy without ram assist and he says it's plenty of steering power.

I've had the Howe kit and it sure worked well. It always had plenty of power, but $1000 is a large chunk of change for a budget project like this. It's my hope the Saginaw setup provided an acceptable level of service for a lower cost. I also really like the idea of not having to deal with the ram and it's hoses.

I'll be showing lots of detail photos and part numbers for those that want to try this in the future, assuming it works as reported.

We are estimating the finished weight of this rig to be about 2,600 lbs dry.

Turtle Bite

12-01-2004, 12:22 PM

Yup, with my saginaw pump/ box and 39.5's, steering feels easier than a buddy's almost identical setup only with an IFS box. Plus, there not too hard to find for free.

vikingsven

12-01-2004, 12:24 PM

Cool.
Keep us posted. :grinpimp:

KC_JoNeS

12-01-2004, 12:27 PM

The Saginaw box with a matching pump will put out more turning power and volume than the Toyota box and pump.

I'll be showing lots of detail photos and part numbers for those that want to try this in the future, assuming it works as reported.

Good! I am interrested as well Chris.

:smokin:

Chris Geiger

12-01-2004, 03:32 PM

Heavy duty Bellfield axles and Polly Performance 4340 axle shafts are assembled with new factory c-clips and installed into the housing.

We started with a straight housing and were careful not to over heat the axle with our welding work. We were happy to see both axles slip right into place with no noticeable housing deflection from the 10+ hours of housing surgery.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/039.jpg

Small gussets were added to the lower balls. None of us here at the shop have had one of these balls fail, but others have. It's easy to add on so we put them on just for good measure.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/040.jpg

born loser

12-01-2004, 03:37 PM

the "balls" i saw that failed WERE gussetted.

Chris Geiger

12-01-2004, 03:37 PM

the "balls" i saw that failed WERE gussetted.

Wow. Must have been some abuse involved to PULL that off!

SanDiegoCJ

12-01-2004, 03:41 PM

Wow. Must have been some abuse involved to PULL that off!

I bet someone let JRT drive it. :flipoff2:

hbar314

12-01-2004, 03:44 PM

the "balls" i saw that failed WERE gussetted.

Interesting. My balls arent gussetted and ive never had a failure problem. :D

85runnerAZ

12-01-2004, 03:45 PM

The weld on mine is cracking. I beat it pretty good but I sure not as hard as some of the guys on here.

whitebrowithafro

12-01-2004, 03:57 PM

Can you gusset the top as well...?

Chris Geiger

12-01-2004, 04:04 PM

Can you gusset the top as well...?

You can get a tiny gusset in on the top, but to make room for a large one it would be necessary to relocate the lower shock mount.

4RnrRick

12-01-2004, 04:14 PM

Yes, you can gussest the top. This is what we did on Project Blu.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2887283&postcount=136

And on my new axle I took it a bit farther into the land of beefyness.......
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=304025&highlight=truss

{edit: Chris beat me to it..... Yes, we did have to fab new shock mounts a bit higher than factory. Its only labor......)

vikingsven

12-01-2004, 04:15 PM

You can get a tiny gusset in on the top, but to make room for a large one it would be necessary to relocate the lower shock mount.

Or cut the lower shock mount off all together, reinforce the ball with a gusset made to accommodate the shock mount, and reattach/fab a new shock mount and gusset that as well...
Just a thought :D

Chris Geiger

12-01-2004, 10:14 PM

Front axle final assembly was completed, Vented Land Cruiser rotors and rebuilt IFS calipers were installed. Knuckles shimmed and steering arms installed.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/041.jpg

http://www.marlincrawler.com/images/v6caliper_500.jpg

The assembled axle received a set of 2" wide front wheel spacers. The size of the spacers may change depending on how close the tires are to the springs. The assembled axle was rolled into position and a front flip kit installed. Upon installing the front flip we encountered a clearance issue with the upper gusset and one of the U bolts. In order to use the gusset with a flip kit, the far right end of the gusset needs to be slightly trimmed.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/042.jpg

Hammer Hog

12-01-2004, 11:00 PM

Looking real nice Chris :D
Sure like the frenched in front hanger :D
I see that you gusseted under your balls :laughing: So I need to ask...has anyone ever cracked or busted their axle in this location? I can see doing it for high speed applications, i.e. Baja stuff and puddle-jumping, but to me it looks like another place to hang up on even as small as it is. Seems counter productive considering that you did all that nice work shaving your diffs. Could it have any benefit to gusseting the top side only and or removing about 75% of that lower gusset?
I may be wrong but, if the gusset were on top it would prevent the upper portion of the ball from clocking toward the axle housing and a much smaller strap type gusset on the lower side would help prevent the lower portion of the ball from pulling away from the axle housing.
I do realize that more material on the lower is best to prevent potential splitting, but you are most likely not going to run much larger tires that 37's or 38's. I could see the need of the larger lower gussets if you were running 42's :eek:
Just my 2 cents :D

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/040.jpg

Keep up the nice work :D

Chris Geiger

12-01-2004, 11:25 PM

I've never run a Toyota axle on larger than 35" tires, that was on my 93 4Runner. That was a heavy truck, topping out well over 5000 lbs. Never had a problem with the balls on that axle, but I allways stayed on the trails.

This rig will be 1/2 that at just 2600 lbs, but will also be going way up in tire size, to 39.5, and will be going off the normal trail often! Yes the gusset will cause a slight loss of ground clearance at that point. I have seen photos of knuckle ball separation, it weren't purdy.

That close to the tire and knuckle I don't think this gusset will be too much of hang up point.

montezuma

12-01-2004, 11:43 PM

Did you guys do anything to prevent the dowels from snapping on the hubs, like the hendrix upgrade, or the ARP studs?

Chris Geiger

12-01-2004, 11:49 PM

Did you guys do anything to prevent the dowels from snapping on the hubs, like the hendrix upgrade, or the ARP studs?

We have not adressed that yet.

a2b

12-02-2004, 02:17 AM

Did you guys do anything to prevent the dowels from snapping on the hubs, like the hendrix upgrade, or the ARP studs?

ya that was the first formula toy breakage at the first comp.....todd's rig :flipoff2:

roctoy

12-02-2004, 09:06 AM

Saginaw (SP) box, I thought this was formula toyota?

4RnrRick

12-02-2004, 09:14 AM

Posting this for reference sake...
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=133554&stc=1

I feel that the knuckle ball could bend in that smallest diameter area but look at how thin the tube is where the knuckle boss is press fit into the end of the housing. Hence the reason why I ran long knuckle ball trusses and did several plug welds. that is the location I now think these toyota housing bend at.

Oh and Chris, on that long truss interfering with the u-bolt. thats real common. since the the diff is at a different angle then the spring perch. It took me a LONG time to put a slight twist and form my upper full length truss so it would clear the u-bolts.

4RnrRick

12-02-2004, 09:21 AM

Did you guys do anything to prevent the dowels from snapping on the hubs, like the hendrix upgrade, or the ARP studs?

I would highly recommend the 6 pin upgrade! Very tight tolerances. I did both the 6-pin and arp studs on mine...
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=158304&stc=1

RE:Todd

12-02-2004, 05:11 PM

ya that was the first formula toy breakage at the first comp.....todd's rig :flipoff2:Shiatt talk from the non-comp Booty Fab King :flipoff2: Bring it youngster :D :D

Chris Geiger

12-03-2004, 12:25 PM

For our transmission we have chosen to use one of our L52-HD units. On this rig we will be moving the engine back a few inches for radiator and winch clearance up on the front crossmember. On Formula Toys its common to go as far back as 8" with the motor and trans. A big advantage to using the L series transmissions is that it's 4" shorter than the later G,W, & R series tyrannies. This will help keep the rear t/case shifter in a comfortable position. On the down side the L series transmission was the weakest tranny used on Toyota 4wd trucks but we have some tricks to bring the old L up to snuff.

The G series transmission replaced the early L series starting in 1984. The G came in 2 versions, the G52 and it's big brother the G54. The G54 features larger main shaft bearings and an updated, stronger gearset. To build one of our L52-HD transmissions, Marlin takes these later style G54 transmissions and fully rebuilds them. Each and every part is taken apart, cleaned inspected and/or replaced.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/050.jpg

Before the G54 gear set can go in the housing, several milling steps to needed to make the needed room for the larger bearings.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/043.jpg

Next the housings are wire wheeled clean, checked and painted.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/044.jpg

Several units are built at the same time for efficiency
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/045.jpg

The L series tyrannies also have another weak spot, the shift forks. These forks are located into he top cover. The forks normally have a life of about 100K miles. After that the induction hardened forks wear out, leaving noticeable ridges on the fork. Once the fork is worn, the shift lever is no longer able to get the shift hub fully into place. With the shift hub not going fully into position the transmission is likely to pop out of gear.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/046.jpg

The wear on the shift fork is due to the direct contact between two hardened surfaces. The solution is cut down the forks and replace the steel with brass. Brass covered forks last far longer than the factory steel because you now have a soft material that will conform to the shape of the shift hub with out gaulding common with two hardened surfaces. Cutting and milling the brass takes over an hour to do on a pair of forks but the resulting forks that last 2-5 times longer than factory units.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/048.jpg

To make the shifting a little more solid, larger detent ball springs are used. Here you can see the stock spring on the left and the heaver new spring on the right.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/047.jpg

The entire top cover is also completely rebuilt. Each rod is removed and inspected. Rods and bushings are replaced as needed. The brass filled forks and heavy duty detent springs are installed. Stainless steel safety wire is used to prevent parts from vibrating loose.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/049.jpg

The completed L52-HD transmission is now ready for action.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/051.jpg

4RnrRick

12-03-2004, 01:17 PM

Nice Detail Chris!

BTW get "The Old Man" to put some Safety Glasses on! Having your eye ball scrapped to get the rust out SUCKS BIGTIME......
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/043.jpg

DBrown2

12-03-2004, 01:59 PM

Chris Geiger

12-03-2004, 02:08 PM

Chris, another thought on the front hanger, Why not cut the frame off, right as it comes down, around the wheel area, and flip it over, then reweld the frame, should gain alot of clearance that way. It does push the radiator up a little but with the motor and everything getting pushed back its not to bad.

Just increase the approach angle. Buddy did that on his comp frame, and mine. :D

Directly above the front crossmember will be a 6000 lb warn winch, above that will be a shortened raditor. I am not going to have any room to go up higher than the frame rail. Also the steering box will be mounted on the inside of the frame rail, no the outside. Any higher in the front and the front crossmember would need to be cut to clear the steering box.

DBrown2

12-03-2004, 03:01 PM

I still dont see why you cant, I am referring to cutting the frame rails both side, at the down hump flip it over, then reweld, causeing the front then to arch up, going out to the front crossmember, versus going back down, and out to the crossmember.

To bad I dont have a photo shop crop to show you, But here is the best I can do...

sarge

12-03-2004, 03:08 PM

how many pens does marlin have in his pockit? :flipoff2: If someone guess's it right will you send them a t-shirt with a bunch of pens :D

Richard

12-03-2004, 03:16 PM

how many pens does marlin have in his pockit? :flipoff2: If someone guess's it right will you send them a t-shirt with a bunch of pens :D
not sure if they are pens , but there is 7

Chris Geiger

12-03-2004, 03:25 PM

Marlin currently has 4 pens, 2 small screwdrivers, and 1 penlight in his pocket. He does usually wear safty glasses when working with tools, the mill is turing very slow in this photo with basicly no chance of bits getting over the endge of the tranny cases he is cutting.

a2b

12-03-2004, 03:38 PM

I still dont see why you cant, I am referring to cutting the frame rails both side, at the down hump flip it over, then reweld..

but can you do that and still stay legal for comps???? is modifing the frame legal?

nice to see another formula toy with the L-52. i thought it was a good idea. my tcase is right in the middle so my front square shaft can fit on my rear as well :D but i need to send mine to marlin to get the HD version

flimmy

12-03-2004, 07:26 PM

Chris , I see this 4runner has made it a long way from were it was built. I remeber seeing it at the 4wheel Jambo's in Bloomsburg,Pa some 10 years ago. If I remeber correct it was built by a guy in MD. Very nice 4runner back then. How did it make it to CA ?

http://www.marlincrawler.com/images/4run500.jpg

Chris Geiger

12-03-2004, 09:19 PM

Marlin purchased the gray 4Runner before I came to work at the shop. Marlin thought he would buy it, finish it and then sell it. It's clear now that he will never have the time to finish it. Marlin's time is better spent rebuilding transmissions and creating new products. Our plans are to bring in 40' long storage containers and use them to hold our growing inventory. Before we can do this we have to clear out the back yard and get rid of as many trucks as passable. We have cut up and recycled the scrap trucks. This is just one of 4 trucks we plan to sell in the near future. We also have the black 4Runner that Marlin used to drive before switching to the Tundra truck. Marlin's son Mike installed a new motor into it and soon it will be road worthy again. We have another black 89 4Runner that runs good, we are asking $3,500 for it. We also have a FJ62 that needs a valve job, but that one won't be ready till sometime next year.

turbo4runner

12-03-2004, 11:58 PM

Stupid frnch jackasS

12-04-2004, 01:10 AM

Nice Detail Chris!

"The Old Man" to put some Safety Glasses on! Having your eye ball scrapped to get the rust out SUCKS BIGTIME......

I would second that BTDT, but that's still a best case scenario. Worst case is when the eye itself is no longer useful :(

Chris Geiger

12-04-2004, 09:27 AM

was wondering why you used vented brakes that creat increased rotational mass in the driveline. you shouldn't need the cooling. it would seem where i'm sitting that any loss of rotaional mass would lead to less stress and could help to reduce breakage. i realize that you have to also adress rims and other driveline components but if the cost is the same why not.

The brakes were totally shot on this axle to begin with and we had all the parts on the shelf to do it right. The IFS calipers have larger pistons and much better braking than the stock brakes. I also have much larger than stock tires to stop. When your at the top of some huge climb looking down you have to have brakes that hold you. I want those bigger pistons up front and larger 10" drums in the rear! I am not worried about 10 lbs of extra weight per tire that low on the truck. Many compeditors run 100+ pounds of water in each of the front tires for stability.

As for axle breakage, I've got Bellfields and Poly Axles, it's not like I plan to run Profields!

DBrown2

12-04-2004, 09:31 AM

Chris, keep the progress, coming... UMmm what are you going to do for Dig???

Chris Geiger

12-04-2004, 04:11 PM

Rear Leaf Springs Mounts

The Formula Toyota rules require rear leaf springs. The rules state that the spring can be inboard mounted to as narrow as the stock front springs. Front springs are mounted at 29" center to center. That's exactly where we are going to mount our springs.

My first plan for rear hangers was to use a section 2" X 4" tubing across the frame. After talking with our fab guy Andy, he had a much better idea. He suggested using our frenched hanger and coming off it's flat sides with gussets back to the frame. That was a much better plan of action.

So I grabbed a pair of hangers off the shelf...
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/052.jpg

Using a section of scrap tubing, I tacked the hangers to the tubing at exactly 29" center to center.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/053.jpg

Next measured 6.5" up and forward of the factory bolts and marked the frame. Then I placed the tubing on the frame and centered the hangers front to back and left to right. Next I tacked the tubing to the frame and rechecked the position of the hangers.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/054.jpg

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/055.jpg

Next I cut 4 sections of 1.5" tubing. Each end was cut to 45 degrees. These were welded front and rear of each hanger.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/056.jpg

After putting on all four braces I removed the section of tubing that was acting as a jig.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/057.jpg

Short sections of tubing are placed in-between the frame and the hangers for additional support.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/058.jpg

The inside of the frame rails on Toyota frames are thinner than the outside. The braces shown here are only intended to provide forward and back support. After the cage is installed a vertical tube will connect from the top of the hanger to the cage.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/059.jpg

Chris Geiger

12-04-2004, 04:19 PM

Chris, keep the progress, coming... UMmm what are you going to do for Dig???

Turning brakes and front dig are currently not aloud. In the future I believe rear drive shaft disconect systems and tcases along with turning brakes will be aloud. If they are permitted in the future we will ad them.

For now we will unlock the ARB in front for maximum turning.

a2b

12-04-2004, 07:25 PM

Next measured 6.5" up and forward of the factory bolts and marked the frame.

chris. since you arent using a stock body, wouldnt you of wanted to wait till you get the formula chassis before mounting the spring hanger? to see where the tire is going to colide with the chassis? unless you have a desired wheelbase you are shooting for already....with 56" rear springs, our frames are all longer than our chassis'. with my chassis mounted 1.25" off the top of the frame rail, i could of moved my rear axel foward another 3" easy wich would put me at 104" wheelbase....(if i wanted to do that)

btw, thats the way i did mine too. i ran my X-brace to the spring hangers...

Chris Geiger

12-04-2004, 08:27 PM

If I had the cage, I would put it on and work from there, but I did not order it early enough.

After looking at the other Formula Toys, I think I have a good idea where everything will end up. I am planning to cut a few inches off the rear of the frame. The wheel base should come out to the same as yours, just about 104". I'd rather adjust the rear cage than change the wheel base.

Chris Geiger

12-06-2004, 10:00 PM

Using a drill, I opened up the stock size holes in the hangers so they will fit the larger 18mm bolts.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/060.jpg

Today Andy created a rear crossmember out of some scrap 3 X 2.5" steel tubing. The ends were cut at 30 degrees and plates were used to cap the ends.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/061.jpg

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/062.jpg

Chris Geiger

12-06-2004, 10:31 PM

Using the specs from hendrixmotorsports, we cut the rear frame down to a length of 150". The rear crossmember is 2.5" thick, making the overall frame length 152.5".

http://www.hendrixmotorsports.com/
http://www.hendrixmotorsports.com/db4/00389/hendrixmotorsports.com/_uimages/profileRS.JPG

The rear crossmember was installed onto the back of the freshly cut frame.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/063.jpg

You can see two sets of springs here, the stock set, our prototype 4" rear test springs.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/064.jpg

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/065.jpg

Next the rear spring hangers were cut off and the narrow axle and springs were rolled out to the graveyard.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/066.jpg

Using a C clamp, Andy tacked a set of rear shackle hangers under the rear crossmember
http://www.marlincrawler.com/images/rear_skl_hng_500.jpg

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/067.jpg

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/068.jpg

A set of 2" over stock shackles are temporally fitted in place.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/069.jpg

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/070.jpg

EvlDodge

12-06-2004, 10:44 PM

You are having way too much fun!
Looking good!

Chris Geiger

12-06-2004, 10:55 PM

You are having way too much fun!

It's been too long since the last project, only 200 more good photos to go and it should be done!

Air Ride says my chassis will be done soon, hoping to drop by his shop later this week!

Izeloz

12-07-2004, 07:26 PM

What springs you using up front?

camo

12-07-2004, 07:54 PM

Air Ride says my chassis will be done soon, hoping to drop by his shop later this week!

if you come to town and do not make time to stop by pirate4x4.com world wide headquarters then i am afraid i will be forced to ban you :flipoff2: see ya soon :D

Scott39

12-07-2004, 08:46 PM

Another cool toyota, will this be street legal?

Scott39

12-07-2004, 08:47 PM

Marlin and his shop build`s the coolest stuff for toyota`s.

Chris Geiger

12-07-2004, 09:07 PM

Another cool toyota, will this be street legal?

No, this will be a green sticker, off-road only buggy. It's being built to "Formula Toyota" class rules. In this class everyone uses the same tube chassis with Toyota frames and running gear.

For more info on the class see the Formula Toyota web site at

www.FormulaToyota.com

http://www.hendrixmotorsports.com/db4/00389/hendrixmotorsports.com/_uimages/126674.jpg

Chris Geiger

12-07-2004, 09:09 PM

if you come to town and do not make time to stop by pirate4x4.com world wide headquarters then i am afraid i will be forced to ban you :flipoff2: see ya soon :D

:) I'll be there with camera in hand!

Chris Geiger

12-07-2004, 09:11 PM

What springs you using up front?

Marlin Crawler 3" front 47" springs.

Chris Geiger

12-07-2004, 09:41 PM

Big Mike, Marlin's son, will be building the motor for this build up. The original 1985 motor is well past it's prime with lots of miles on it. This old motor had been sitting in the back yard for who know how many years.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/071.jpg

Mike placed the tired mill up on an engine stand and in about 2 hours reduced the motor to a pile of parts. He carefully sorted each nut bolt and part into boxes and muffin tins as it came apart. This will make later reassembly much faster.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/072.jpg

I knew we had many of the parts we needed to build this truck right in the shop at the start of the project but I was totally shocked when Marlin pulled out from under his bench a fully machined 1985 engine block and matching .020 over pistons. I've been working at the shop for a year and had never seen this block before.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/073.jpg

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/074.jpg

We also keep engine kits in stock so Big Mike is now ready to put the block back together.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/075.jpg

Marlin will be porting the head giving it a valve job before it's put back on.

Booger Weldz

12-07-2004, 09:45 PM

does marlin crawler sell reman efi longblocks?

Chris Geiger

12-07-2004, 10:12 PM

does marlin crawler sell reman efi longblocks?

Marlin has been rebuilding engines for many years, he's rebuilt hundreds of motors over the last 20 + years. We have sold a few complete motors this year as well has heads and porting. This year, he did a FJ40 inline 6, a Turbo motor and four 22r Motors.

Here is a 22RE motor
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/motor.jpg

Here is a Turbo motor going into a double cab.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/turbo_motor.jpg

We would like to make these available in the future, but right now we are just slammed with orders we are just not able accommodate a lot of motor jobs right now so we are not advertising them yet. Next year we are going to have to do some type of expansion and hopefully be able to offer some motor and head work.

EvlDodge

12-07-2004, 11:03 PM

I was totally shocked when Marlin pulled out from under his bench a fully machined 1985 engine block and matching .020 over pistons. I've been working at the shop for a year and had never seen this block before.

:laughing: You need to look around more! Nice bonus to the project! Had Marlin been saving that block for a special ocasion?

Overkiller

12-07-2004, 11:25 PM

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/turbo_motor.jpg[/img]

.

Double cab you say? That's going to require more info. The front end looks first gen. If that's the case I'll put on my rubber undies and wait for more pics

blacktoy

12-07-2004, 11:57 PM

Double cab you say? That's going to require more info. The front end looks first gen. If that's the case I'll put on my rubber undies and wait for more pics

HERE (http://www.marlincrawler.com/double_cab_project.html) is the project page from Marlin's site

Grim Reaper

12-08-2004, 08:42 AM

4RnrRick

12-08-2004, 09:03 AM

What are you going to do about the spring mounts for the rear? Those side mounted inboard perches are going to fail if they are not braced or the frame plated. There are several posts showing failures of the thin frame in that area when people have created mounts for 4 links.

Looks like someone needs to read the post instead of just looking at the pretty pictures..........

.......The inside of the frame rails on Toyota frames are thinner than the outside. The braces shown here are only intended to provide forward and back support. After the cage is installed a vertical tube will connect from the top of the hanger to the cage....

Chris Geiger

12-08-2004, 09:04 AM

What are you going to do about the spring mounts for the rear?

Those side mounted inboard perches are going to fail if they are not braced or the frame plated. There are several posts showing failures of the thin frame in that area when people have created mounts for 4 links.

Yep, if that was all we were doing, it would fail going down a gravel road. After the chassis is on, then the verticle tubes will be added. The tubes that are in place now are to position it front to rear. We may also consider a hoop that goes from one perch to the other to tie them together.

There are also many more gussets for the front and rear of the frame that must be added in later. The gussets will be one of the last steps, after all the major parts are placed.

GloNDark

12-08-2004, 09:24 AM

Damn this is the best build up yet. Atleast for me, so far they haven't done anything I could afford to do. :laughing: AWESOME!

Longfield

12-08-2004, 11:05 AM

Chris locking nice good job. :grinpimp:

bobbed83toy

12-08-2004, 01:35 PM

chris, can you pm me a price on your engine kits.. what does it come with? im gonna be needing one very soon...

85TrailToy

12-08-2004, 03:49 PM

Chris, do you get email at [geiger@marlincrawler.com]?? Or maybe you don't read email? :flipoff2:

klinkman

12-08-2004, 04:00 PM

very nice build up thread, pictures and descriptions are top notch. is there a website where we can go to check out chassis?

Chris Geiger

12-08-2004, 06:36 PM

very nice build up thread, pictures and descriptions are top notch. is there a website where we can go to check out chassis?

http://www.hendrixmotorsports.com/

SlamChops

12-08-2004, 09:45 PM

My buddy sold a dual case sqaure tube driveshaft about two months ago and the postal service screwed him so i need to make a square tube driveshaft for him and i was wondering if anyone had a flange to flange measure ment for rears up front with about 3 to 4 inches of lift and dual cases?

STFU and start your own thread. :shaking:

Chris Geiger

12-08-2004, 10:32 PM

Today we received our PRP front seats.

We will be using a pair of their "Premier High Back" seats. I ordered these yesterday and received them today. I love fast shipping! I sat my butt down in them and for $189 this is a great seat deal!
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/076.jpg

We also ordered a pair of their seat sliders so we can adjust them forward or back for different drivers.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/077.jpg

Later we will show how these are installed.

TTF Fabrication

12-08-2004, 10:52 PM

Those are really nice seats, I've sat in em. I went with the corbeau baja ss in all black vinyl cuz i'm a northwest wheeler, and the mud wipes off them nicely. those seats are going to be sweet in a buggy, i had to tilt mine more vertical to get them to slide back far enough for me to have any leg room. this is an awesome thread, keep it up!

a2b

12-09-2004, 02:45 AM

hey i got the exact same seats. very very comfortable. the first trail out, when i was waiting for an hour for a jeep to get out of the way, i almost fell asleep in my seat...it would be nice to have it adjustable though

4RnrRick

12-09-2004, 08:58 AM

How much was the adjuster kit???? (I didn't know they offered that!) I've been wanting to get a set of those for a while now but I need to be able to get to the back seat of the 4runner so I need a adjustable setup.

Thanks Chris -- Wow thats cheap!
||
\/

Chris Geiger

12-09-2004, 12:11 PM

Chris Geiger

12-09-2004, 09:52 PM

Today, rocky assembled the rear Chromoly steel axles using new bearings and seals.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/078.jpg

The Detroit/4.10 gear Turbo third member was installed into the clearanced housing and the axles were installed. The rear housing is painted except where the perches are to be welded on.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/079.jpg

A set of 3 hole perches are used to mount the springs to the axle. With the narrowed springs, the perches need to be mounted closer together. This causes a slight problem as the tube size gets larger when you get closer to the third member. A little bit of grinding was required to open up one side of the perch. In the photo below you can see a slight rise in the axle housing under the spring.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/081.jpg

With the axle now in place the rear flip kit is installed. The perches are not welded on at this time. The pinion is position is estimated to be correct, but we will wait until the tcase is installed before welding the perches into place.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/080.jpg

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/082.jpg

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/083.jpg

SanDiegoCJ

12-10-2004, 08:40 AM

Look at all the clean, purty parts. :D
It's coming along great Chris. I'm definitely following this thread.

4RnrRick

12-10-2004, 09:03 AM

Not that clean! Look at the rust already forming! What happened Chris? I don't even see metal rust that fast, here in Oregon during the rainy season! (unless its outside)

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/080.jpg

Chris Geiger

12-10-2004, 09:10 AM

Yep, it was out in the rain for two days.

I have to get a cover for it asap, I hate seeing it rust like that. We are going to have to wire wheel it before paint time.

Russian

12-10-2004, 09:40 AM

Look at all the clean, purty parts. :D
It's coming along great Chris. I'm definitely following this thread.

I'm following it too!
And i think that most of us would have parts and places so clean as soon as we get such workshop spaces and work on our rigs full time! :D

no excuses

12-10-2004, 03:12 PM

OK go ahead and flame me but I need to know how do yo figure out how far to turn up ur axle to get the correct driveline angle? Mine in stock location breaks over at about 23degrees, way to much..thanks for any and all help..

Chris Geiger

12-10-2004, 03:50 PM

What you do is put your perches and ubolt flip kit onto the axle but don't weld it. Make sure your truck has it's full weight on the springs, body, tools, motor, trans, and everything. Now you point the pinion of the rear diff so it goes straight to the rear tcase output. Tack the perches in place. Remove the rear axle and weld it up. Call Jess at High Angle Drive Line and have him build one of his famous Toyota rear CV drive shafts.

In our case the rear pinion is just a guess. We won't weld on the rear perches until after the weight is on the truck and the shackles have been adjusted.

http://www.highangledriveline.com/

http://www.highangledriveline.com/header04.jpg

no excuses

12-10-2004, 10:43 PM

Thanks Chris, by the way just finished puting together ur mc07 doubler kit and everything went great..

Chris Geiger

12-12-2004, 08:38 PM

Today I drove out to the Hendrix Motor Sports shop out in Santa Margarita to pickup chassis number 028. Mike has been busy cranking out chassis's at 1-2 per week. Parts for numbers 030 and 031 were starting to come together.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/085.jpg

Marlin the dog was the first to greet me as I arrived at the shop.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/084.jpg

My chassis was ready to go and hanging from the sealing of the shop. Using the roof mounted winches, Mike was able to rotate and flip the chassis for easy loading into the back of our pickup.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/086.jpg

Here is the base used for building each Hendrix chassis.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/087.jpg

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/088.jpg

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/089.jpg

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/090.jpg

Chris Geiger

12-12-2004, 08:38 PM

On my way back to Fresno, I stopped by Eric Linkers shop.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/091.jpg

I took a very close look at Lisa's Formula Toyota, the prototype for the class and current series winner.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/092.jpg

Camo's shop has more computing power than many offices!
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/093.jpg

Lisa's newest toy!
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/094.jpg

Fork lift, the ultimate shop tool.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/095.jpg

Arriving back in Fresno.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/097.jpg

Using two tubes across the frame, the chassis was dropped in place. On Saturday, I removed the stock tcase crossmember, horseshoe crossmember, and rear tubular crossmember from the frame. Andy created a plate and gusset for mounting the steering box.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/098.jpg

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/099.jpg

Tim Florian

12-12-2004, 09:52 PM

Nice Chriss -Can you snap a close up or to of that steering box mount and gusset.

Chris Geiger

12-12-2004, 10:20 PM

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/100.jpg

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/101.jpg

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/102.jpg

Blue-Beard

12-12-2004, 10:48 PM

Here is the base used for building each Hendrix chassis.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/087.jpg

I spy with my little eye a camo 60 sitting under that table! :flipoff2:

I gotta say as well those hendrix X gussets are :cool2: :grinpimp:

EvlDodge

12-12-2004, 11:14 PM

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/100.jpg

What is this steering box off of?

Chris Geiger

12-13-2004, 12:46 PM

The steering box comes from a 64-76 GM, I am not sure about the body style but Andy thinks it's a Monty Carlo. We received a rebuilt unit from Cardone, part# 27-6537. It cost us $226 to our door. We also ordered a power steering pump for a 78 Chevy Truck (V8-350 5.7L). The part number for the pump is Cardone #20-6800. Their web site is www.cardone.com I don't think they sell direct, but you can buy their parts at many local auto parts stores.
There are lots of different steering boxes that look similar. This is the one to get because it's got the strongest housing. Notice the cast gussets between the bolts. Other models do not have these ribs.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/103.jpg

camo

12-13-2004, 01:07 PM

I spy with my little eye a camo 60 sitting under that table! :flipoff2:

LOL...good eye :D it is supposed to be conected to my x chassis not sitting on the floor :D

SanDiegoCJ

12-13-2004, 08:51 PM

Chris, IMO the plate the box is mounted to just doesn't look thick enough. :eek: :eek:

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/101.jpg

I'd be scared that would bend in short order.

Chris Geiger

12-13-2004, 09:50 PM

Chris, IMO the plate the box is mounted to just doesn't look thick enough. I'd be scared that would bend in short order.

I know that many people go for the bigger must be better line of thinking but if you build it like a tank, it will wheel like a tank. Tanks can't climb for beans and that why we don't see big heavy rigs in competition anymore. If you build an airplane entirely out of the material they use to build the black box, the plane will be too heavy to fly.

If the gusset was not there I might be worried, but once that gusset gets welded into place, it's going to reinforce the plate. Right now that steering box is sitting 1/2" higher than we believe it will be. The lower it goes the less stress we will see on the plate. Once we get the remaining parts in place we can move the box down as far as it will go. This box mounts with 4 mounts, not just 3 like IFS boxes. This mount is far stronger typical IFS mounts and the two top bolts are right next to the gusset. The other two mounts will go through frame sleeves, like an IFS box does. Andy has installed more than 50 of these into Toyota's over the years and is confident it will work. This is the exact same mount he used on his own buggy and it does work well on that rig running 39.5 X 13.50 Swampers.

Here is a little known nugget for building steering systems... Mount the box as low as possible to reduce the drag link angle. The straighter the drag link angle is, the less steering travel is lost and the further you will be able to turn the wheels. Also a longer pitman arm will allow for more travel too.

It's going to get crowded up in front of this rig, so we are not going to weld anything in place until the major parts are in place. We now have the cage on the truck and have a good idea of where it's going to be located. Our rebuilt motor should be assembled by the end of the week. We will lift the motor into place, along with the winch, radiator and fan. Then we will mock up and simulate the suspension travel arc. The box will be setup so that it is as close as possible to the front axle for maximum steering travel (without the pitman arm hitting the left side spring). The motor will only be moved back the minimum needed to clear the electric radiator fan. Right now I am guessing that will be about 4", it will also go down about 1" if we have the room under the pan.

EvlDodge

12-13-2004, 10:15 PM

Why not rear mount the radiator?
Or is it in the rules that it has to be in the front?

Chris Geiger

12-13-2004, 10:39 PM

Why not rear mount the radiator?
Or is it in the rules that it has to be in the front?

I'd be up for rear mounting the raditor, but to keep it simple the raditor must be up front. It was a lot of work to mount it in the rear so I understand not allowing it. These need to be simple easy to build, fun rigs!

I really liked the low hood line that came with putting the raditor in the rear. On this build we will be using a custom sized, smaller raditor to keep it below the front hood hoop.

jca

12-13-2004, 10:43 PM

Why not rear mount the radiator?
Or is it in the rules that it has to be in the front?

Yes rules.

jca

12-13-2004, 10:44 PM

Chris it is looking good. I think moving the motor back 4" will be better that the normal 8" cant wait to see it out there.

SanDiegoCJ

12-14-2004, 07:55 AM

I know that many people go for the bigger must be better line of thinking but if you build it like a tank, it will wheel like a tank. Tanks can't climb for beans and that why we don't see big heavy rigs in competition anymore. If you build an airplane entirely out of the material they use to build the black box, the plane will be too heavy to fly.

If the gusset was not there I might be worried, but once that gusset gets welded into place, it's going to reinforce the plate.

I understand the part about not "building a tank", but when it comes to something
like steering I want it STRONG. Light weight doesn't do you and good if the steering
box is flopping around on busted mounts. :flipoff2:

4RnrRick

12-14-2004, 10:54 AM

Just to let you know, I added this post to the list of Formula Toy Buildups in the FAQ....

Keep up the good work guys....

johnygspot

12-14-2004, 01:23 PM

Wow this is so inspiring. BTW the "Black Box" only ways a couple of pounds. The case is sheet metal not sure what is inside though. I am a com/nav journeyman in the airforce but thats niether here nore there... Keep up the good work. :D

Mike1993

12-14-2004, 03:26 PM

I went to Goofy Graphics to get a sticker made its a couble of my friends mom. I guess she does Buisness with Lisa Making her stickers for her formula truck.
...This caught my interest so i thought i would post it up

joemauma

12-14-2004, 06:09 PM

Hey I went to Goofy Graphics to get a sticker made its a couble of my friends mom, and i guess she does Buisness with Lisa Making her stickers for her formula vehicale that say Pirate4x4 here In Morro Bay, CA she said that lisa lives local around her in SLO county i was like sweet.

Please puncuate in the future. It's hard to read 2nd grade grammar!

toyotaboy

12-14-2004, 08:08 PM

Hey I went to Goofy Graphics to get a sticker made its a couble of my friends mom, and i guess she does Buisness with Lisa Making her stickers for her formula vehicale that say Pirate4x4 here In Morro Bay, CA she said that lisa lives local around her in SLO county i was like sweet.

mike your an idiot... :shaking: BTW your thirds are comin out soon...

camo

12-15-2004, 01:28 AM

Hey I went to Goofy Graphics to get a sticker made its a couble of my friends mom, and i guess she does Buisness with Lisa Making her stickers for her formula vehicale that say Pirate4x4 here In Morro Bay, CA she said that lisa lives local around her in SLO county i was like sweet.

we live in atascadero and goofy has been doing all our stickers for 10 years. good people

Mike1993

12-15-2004, 10:17 AM

ok... I wasnt trying to be perfect on that. But anyways ill Punctuate from now on just so people can understand.
hehe :)

whitebrowithafro

12-15-2004, 02:38 PM

ok... I wasnt trying to be perfect on that. But anyways ill Punctuate from now on just so people can understand.
hehe :)

:laughing::laughing:

SanDiegoCJ

12-22-2004, 09:45 AM

Update Chris ???? WTF is happening ? You fall into a hole or something ? :flipoff2:

Tuite

12-22-2004, 09:47 AM

Looks like he is on vacation:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=312886

SanDiegoCJ

12-22-2004, 10:35 AM

Looks like he is on vacation:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=312886

What a slacker. :flipoff2:

Chris Geiger

12-22-2004, 08:24 PM

Update Chris ???? WTF is happening ? You fall into a hole or something ? :flipoff2:

Ya, I fell into the water, off Maui!

BigMike is assembling the motor this week and is taking photos, I'll get them posted up as soon as I can.

Fawk Awph

12-22-2004, 08:43 PM

i have one of those steering boxes, mine was off of a transam. anyone want it?

now that im done pimping. . . . . .its looking good, i would really like to come and see one of these things in action one time.

Callen

EvlDodge

12-22-2004, 09:05 PM

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=163721&stc=1

Watch the hands there! LOL

Chris Geiger

01-01-2005, 10:31 PM

The 38 X 12.50 TSL Swampers came in! Soon we will do a little cutting on these with a hot knife for extra traction.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/104.jpg

On to the transfer case...
Rocky built up a dual Ultimate Crawler unit using our new MC08-R10 dual adapter. This adapter rotates the rear case 10 degrees to the left. This rotation creates a flat bottom under the tcase.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/105.jpg

Normally the bottom of a Toyota tcase has the 4wd section hanging down below the reduction housings. With the rotated adapter, the 4wd section is lifted up 1 3/16, level with the reduction housings.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/106.jpg

Another view along the bottom
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/107.jpg

The front case has factory 2.28, 21 spline gears, the rear has 23 spline, 4.7 gears.

DogDenII

01-02-2005, 07:33 AM

Chris -

You are using the 80 Front with an ARB and a V6 3rd with Tacoma 4.10 gears and a Detroit for the rear? It was hard to follow but this is what I came out with.

Nice job on the clocked adapter.

85runnerAZ

01-02-2005, 04:10 PM

On to the transfer case...
Rocky built up a dual Ultimate Crawler unit using our new MC08-R10 dual adapter. This adapter rotates the rear case 10 degrees to the left. This rotation creates a flat bottom under the tcase.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/105.jpg

Normally the bottom of a Toyota tcase has the 4wd section hanging down below the reduction housings. With the rotated adapter, the 4wd section is lifted up 1 3/16, level with the reduction housings.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/106.jpg

Another view along the bottom
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/107.jpg

Man, When did you start selling those? I would have totally bought one of those instead of my 07! Consider a trade in? I NEED ONE!!!

Shoope1

01-02-2005, 06:13 PM

Chris Geiger

01-02-2005, 09:00 PM

Man, When did you start selling those? I would have totally bought one of those instead of my 07! Consider a trade in? I NEED ONE!!!

We just started selling these a few weeks ago. Yes we would be happy to trade a new or like new MC07 as credit toward the MC08.

Chris Geiger

01-02-2005, 09:17 PM

I bet this adapter would help out with the guys raising their drivetrain to get the flat belly. Meaning the rear angle want be as bad.

What's your take Chris. A few of the guys was having rear drive shaft problems by moving the engine back 8"

Yes this will help those willing to use a custom style crossmember. This week I spoke with Front Range Off Road and they are producing a rear plate that will work with the rotated adapter for those that want to build their own crossmember. This plate is similar to the one they sell for the MC07, it's just rotated 10 degrees.

Personally I think moving the motor back a full 8" puts too much weight on the rear wheels in a vertical climb, but that is strictly my own opinion. We will be moving our motor back, but only enough to fit the winch, radiator, and fan up front, I am guessing it will be about 4".

This adapter can allow mounting of the tcase 1 3/16" down lower than a standard dual adapter, helping rear U joint angles.

Shoope1

01-02-2005, 09:51 PM

Thanks for the info.
That will help me on my formula setup.

RedNeckRea

01-11-2005, 10:47 PM

anything new in the last week and a half :confused:

Chris Geiger

01-11-2005, 11:17 PM

We pickup the Champion 15" X 8" beadlocked wheels tomorrow. Tire groover came in so if I am able to use my left hand this weekend, I'll be putting the tires on the wheels and grooving them. Tomorrow I am going in for surgery on my left hand and I may not regain full use of it for two weeks, so I'll see how I feel.

While building the motor we encountered problems with the crankshaft. There was either a problem with the machining work or the center cap was changed after the machining was done. When we tested crank drag, we found the crank was binding. The crank was removed, everything was measured and a problem was found in the center main bearing cap. It took a couple days to remachine this cap and resolve the binding. After repairing the problem, plastigauge was used to verify proper clearances were restored. The drag of the crank is now correct.

So the block is now assembled and ready. Next will be head porting and valve job. After the head is installed, the motor, trans, tcase will be lifted in place and engine mount fabrication can begin.

Booger Weldz

01-11-2005, 11:37 PM

Chris Geiger

01-11-2005, 11:40 PM

Sure, I'll get the weights of both the wheel and tire. I'll also weigh the rubber removed from the tires!

Chris Geiger

01-15-2005, 12:04 AM

The Champion Beadlock wheels came in so it's time to put some bling into this project.

I originally wanted to go with 39" X 13.50 tires on 10" wide wheels. Andy has been running this combination on his buggy and has yet to brake his ringed Londfield yet with over a year of use. Andy's buggy is not running under the stress of competition, that's going to be harder on the axles. Also in talking with Camo about the courses we are expecting to see, a light came on in my head. My gut reaction at first was to go with the largest tire I could (39 or 40). Then I thought about the courses for this class. These courses are layed out for full bodied, modified Jeeps running 37" tires. Going too tall could be a challenge in tippy conditions. The Jeeps will be allowed front burn cases like Atlas or D300. Going over the courses I think the light weight, tube body Ftoys will have a bit of an advantage over the full bodied jeeps. The jeeps will have an advantage in turning with the front dig and short wheel base. Many of the Ftoy competitors this year talked a lot about how it came down to maneuvering between cones. This is different than the top classes. For the top classes it's often about how much throttle a rig can handle to rocket up a steep climb. Horsepower, traction, clearance and the rigs light weight are the keys to getting over the top courses.

There are a lot of different ideas when it comes to tire/wheel combinations. We have decided after much thought to run 38" X 12.50 TSL on 8" Champion beadlock wheels. Normally a 10" wheel would be used with this tire, the 8" wheel will draw the side walls of the tire in. This will cause the tire to stand a little taller and narrower than it would on an 10" wheel. It also has the advantage of reducing the need for as much wheel spacer. We originally put on 2" wheel spaces in anticipation of 39" tires. These spacers were swapped out for a set of 1.25" front spacers. With the steering stops backed out we can still go lock to lock with out hitting the tire on the leaf springs.

Every choice has pros and cons. I know some will be running larger tires but will this be a disadvantage in off camber sections? Could be. Our tire choice will narrow the front end nearly 4". This will allow for a little more maneuverability but will also reduce stability.

Ok about the wheels:

The American Baja 15 X 8 wheels with Champion beadlocks 15 X 8 weigh 23lbs each.

The Swamper TSL tires weigh 75.6 lbs each, ungrooved.

Ok here are some photos....

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/108.jpg

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/109.jpg

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/110.jpg

BrettM

01-15-2005, 03:02 AM

wow! that's not bad at all on tire/wheel weight, you're at 98.6 each. My 35" MTRs on 15x10 steelies are 92 pounds each (57 for the tire, 35 for the wheel).

Booger Weldz

01-15-2005, 08:31 AM

damn those are some nice wheels, do you have any pricing info?

turbo4runner

01-15-2005, 08:33 AM

Good idea and thought about how the tires will affect the buggy in a comp.
Can you mesure the height of the tire's on the rims for us please.
You will also enjoy the squarer profile of the tire and the less cones like the krawlers have.

Chris Geiger

01-15-2005, 09:37 AM

damn those are some nice wheels, do you have any pricing info?

We have the 15X8's for $257 and the 15X10's for $267 per wheel. Price includes wide polished rings and hardware (as shown in photo).

Chris Geiger

01-15-2005, 09:45 AM

DBrown2

01-15-2005, 09:50 AM

Any pricing yet on 17x9's yota pattern.

Chris Geiger

01-15-2005, 10:20 AM

Any pricing yet on 17x9's yota pattern.

17 X 9's run $340 each.

Chris Geiger

01-20-2005, 10:08 PM

Head Work

Using a large Dremel tool with an auger bit, Marlin spent an hour hogging out the intake and exports for better air flow into the cylinders.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/111.jpg

The stock valves were ground with Marlin's special 3 angle grind and installed into the head. The head was surfaced on our in house surfacing machine.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/112.jpg

High quality steel Timeserts are installed into each intake and exhaust stud hole. These reduce striped threads when removing and reinstalling manifolds.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/113.jpg

Now with the block and head finished it's time to bolt the motor together.

GJC

01-20-2005, 10:38 PM

very nice,cool build up :D

High5

01-21-2005, 07:51 AM

keep it comming. i really like this thread!

Chris Geiger

01-21-2005, 10:58 PM

The head we are using was from a motor that was badly overheated, causing the head to warp. When doing the valve job it took .010" of machining to get the surface of the head straight. When fitting the cam into the head, Marlin found the top of head had also warped up in the middle. To measure this the cam was placed in the head and feeler gauges were used to measure the gaps between the cam and the bearing surfaces in the head. A small gap was found in the center bearing cam cap.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/114.jpg

To repair the bearing, the face of the bearing cap was put on a belt sander and a few thousands was removed from it. Next a line boring tool was installed in place of the cam and the center cap installed. The boring tool created a new, correctly positioned hole in the head.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/115.jpg

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/116.jpg

Oil pickup tubes are installed into the short block.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/117.jpg

The finished motor is ready to drop in for it's first test fitting.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/118.jpg

gtxracer

01-21-2005, 11:08 PM

Looks good! Is that a new oil pickup? Also, are you allowed to run a modified cam or is it stock only?

jekbrown

01-21-2005, 11:31 PM

sweet bead locks. i actually thought those tires/wheels would be lighter though... my eaton HD steel wheels are 15x10 with 39.5x15x15 TSLs on them and they are 123 lbs each. I know bead locks add some weight, but that is a narrower AL rim. hmmm... interesting.

j

Chris Geiger

01-21-2005, 11:45 PM

Looks good! Is that a new oil pickup? Also, are you allowed to run a modified cam or is it stock only?

Yes the pickup is a new unit.

Modified cams are allowed. We chose a stock cam for now. We don't want any low RPM funny stuff. Looking at the gearing (2.28 X 4.70 X 4.10 R&P, I think we will be using the lower end of rpm range a lot. We want the widest possible operating range we can get.

Later we will make changes to the air flow meter harness that will allow operating as low as 400 RPM.

It's common to add high volume turbo oil pumps to get more oil through the motor. We did not use the high volume pump and choose instead to keep the stock pump. This way when the rig is on it's side less oil will get pumped up into the head. This should allow the rig to be on it's side running a little longer than a turbo oil pump equipped motor.

The turbo oil pump would probably help the engine bearings last longer but this motor will never see street duty and I doubt it will ever see the kind of miles that a daily driver sees. It might see 2,000 miles a year if that.

wv4runner

01-22-2005, 10:44 AM

Looking good Chris.

I'm gonna have to try whiting everything out of my pictures sometime. They look awesome. :smokin:

MR.FIXIT

01-22-2005, 12:53 PM

Is there anything these cats can't do? greatest stuff I've ever seen!!!!

Chris Geiger

01-29-2005, 03:58 PM

Instead of using front manual locking hubs, we will be using drive flanges. These are simple plates with splines inside that lock the axle shaft to the hub assembly. With drive flanges there is no ability to lock or unlock, they are simply locked all the time. We won't be driving this buggy on any streets or highways.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/119.jpg

These drive flanges are from an Australian spec 1982 FJ40. In the USA this cruiser was equipped with manual hubs, but in Australia drive flanges are standard equipment. The drive flanges weigh 1.3 lbs each, compared to 3lbs each for the manual hubs. They are 1.5" shorter than standard pickup hubs. These flanges were chosen to allow drilling and installing more dowels. There is room to install 4 additional pins for added strength. Some drive flanges, like those on FJ80 cruisers are cut in such a way that only the two stock dowel pins can be used. Due to time constrains we are going to use them as is for now, but later we will show installing the additional pins.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/120.jpg

Drive flanges install using the same cones, washers and nuts as the stock hubs. The original outer birfield snap ring is also used.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/121.jpg

sarge

01-29-2005, 04:02 PM

hey Chris are you guys going to sell these drive flanges?

Chris Geiger

01-29-2005, 04:04 PM

hey Chris are you guys going to sell these drive flanges?

Yes we will be selling them. They will be $45 each. We will have more in stock a few weeks.

Mieser

01-29-2005, 04:18 PM

Nice little tech tip about the flanges.....sweet! I love the details!

Arya Ebrahimi

01-29-2005, 04:50 PM

Chris, I'm probably missing something here, but what is the advantage to the additional dowel pins? Aren't the 6 studs and cone washers taking all the load anyway?

Ary

Chris Geiger

01-29-2005, 04:55 PM

Next the newly rebuilt motor is temporally installed into the chassis on the stock motor mounts. In this class you must put the radiator in front of the motor. The chassis is designed assuming the engine is going to be moved back 8". There is a lot of debate on where to put the motor for best performance. Some prefer the truck to be as close to a 50/50 weight split as possible. Others believe that the more weight you have up front the better balanced the weight will be when crawling uphill. Currently the top trucks in the unlimited classes of competition run rear engine buggies with the driver all the way forward. These trucks run a nearly 50/50 weight split.

Now that we have a motor, radiator, steering box and winch all together it is possible to figure out how the parts will fit. The winch will be placed on top of the front crossmember. We will be installing the motor back 4" and down 1" from the stock location. This will give the needed clearance for the winch and radiator while keeping about 60% of the weight on the front axle on level ground.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/122.jpg

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/123.jpg

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/124.jpg

Using a length of tube to hold up the transfer case. The rotated adapter makes it easier to get the flat bottom we are looking for. After the motor mounts are built, a crossmember will be made to support the transfercase.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/125.jpg

http://www.marlincrawler.com/ftoy/126.jpg