All right 2 q for those that have been there. And no I did not search, I'm tired and the board is dead today :flipoff2:

Up front is easy, the longest shock I can find between 13.5-14 inches of travel. Out back is a different story what length are you guys running? The shocks are at an angle, reducing the amount of travel needed, are you running 14" travel shocks, or are you in the 12" range. I plan to move the tops of the shocks closer together, the mount on the axle is open I can put it anywhere.

Anyone know who sells Doetsch Tech shocks, the website sucks and no one answers the toll free number. Else it's RS5000, RS9000 or Pro Comp.

Give me your thoughts.

Originally posted by jdjanda
Out back is a different story what length are you guys running? The shocks are at an angle, reducing the amount of travel needed, are you running 14" travel shocks, or are you in the 12" range. I plan to move the tops of the shocks closer together, the mount on the axle is open I can put it anywhere.

Give me your thoughts.

Out back.. they SUCK.

On "Tigger" I'm running whatever the POS Heckethorn shocks I got with my lift kit were..

They're angled over pretty far and they still limit travel. I can go a little closer together at the top before the tops hit each other.

On the racer.. I'm running 9" shocks out back with the stock upper mounts and the lower mounts around 3-4" BELOW the axle housing and outboard a bit, so the shocks are still angled some.

Guess what. NOT ENOUGH SHOCK.

I see two solutions.

1) build a new x-member or just frame-brackets in front of the rear axle and run the shocks in front of the rear end, up and forward at an angle.

2) Cut the bed.

Not sure which route I'll take on the racer. I should at least try the angled forward approach so I can work out the bugs before I tackle the trail rig..

I'm running doetsch tech prerunners, 14" in front, 12" out back. In the rear the lower mount is on the front of the axle tube, and the shocks angle in towards the middle of the rig.

I bought my Doetsch Tech's from http://www.fly-n-hi.com

Originally posted by jdjanda
All right 2 q for those that have been there. And no I did not search, I'm tired and the board is dead today :flipoff2:

Up front is easy, the longest shock I can find between 13.5-14 inches of travel. Out back is a different story what length are you guys running? The shocks are at an angle, reducing the amount of travel needed, are you running 14" travel shocks, or are you in the 12" range. I plan to move the tops of the shocks closer together, the mount on the axle is open I can put it anywhere.

Anyone know who sells Doetsch Tech shocks, the website sucks and no one answers the toll free number. Else it's RS5000, RS9000 or Pro Comp.

Give me your thoughts.

Stock length shocks. I moved the bottoms in so the shocks are almost vertical. Physical movement of the axle is limited as you move closer to the center. Short shocks work fine. No fancy mounts, no trouble, no muss.

Only drawback is that the shocks will prevent full droop of the entire axle, by a little bit. If I hang my bumper up on something, my axle cannot drop evenly as fully as the springs would allow because the shocks will limit them. But, with the SOA, it would be a very unusual case where I had the entire rear axle in the air evenly.

Also, if I come down hard, I might bottom out my shocks.

Have not had either of these problems yet, but they are both theoretically plausible and something to consider. OTOH, a good rear axle remedy is hard to find. As far as I could tell, the best thing to do is move the upper mount up and in as far as possible, and the lower mount down and out as far as possible, but by my measurements, you are still going to limit single wheel droop.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/bible/SHOCKLENGTH.xls

:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Originally posted by Ben W
In the rear the lower mount is on the front of the axle tube, and the shocks angle in towards the middle of the rig.


In n' forward, or just (roughly) "in"?

Originally posted by Old Scout
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/bible/SHOCKLENGTH.xls

:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

I must have missed the tab for Scout II recommended lengths. :flipoff2:

I've got the spread sheet, very nice list, it's a tad out dated but still nice.

Originally posted by Ben W
I'm running doetsch tech prerunners, 14" in front, 12" out back. In the rear the lower mount is on the front of the axle tube, and the shocks angle in towards the middle of the rig.

I bought my Doetsch Tech's from http://www.fly-n-hi.com

Are your tops in stock location? You can't move too far in before you hit the pumpkin. The top of my shocks are mounted like this.

http://www.ihssii.org/Hooper/Images-Technical/RearTopMount.jpg

The rear are like this. Inboard, almost vertical.

http://www.ihssii.org/Hooper/Images-Technical/PassengerRearRedSquare.jpg

Originally posted by Ben W
I'm running doetsch tech prerunners, 14" in front, 12" out back. In the rear the lower mount is on the front of the axle tube, and the shocks angle in towards the middle of the rig.

I bought my Doetsch Tech's from http://www.fly-n-hi.com

Do you have enough travel in the back? I know it's a 80 but should be close enough for government work.

Thanks for the link.

Joe

well..... 5012's, I layed them foreward around 55 degrees to a crosmember type mount, other end is on front of the axle tube. They are straight up and down, not tilted to the inside at all. I still haven't used all the shock:flipoff2: but then my junk is a little different than what most of you run and doesn't flex vary well:flipoff2:

Originally posted by jdjanda


Do you have enough travel in the back? I know it's a 80 but should be close enough for government work.

Thanks for the link.

Joe


There is plenty of shock travel, but my rear flex sucks, so I don't even come close to using the whole shock.

Originally posted by Hooper


Are your tops in stock location? You can't move too far in before you hit the pumpkin. The top of my shocks are mounted like this.



I don't even remember what stock looked like. I think the tops of the shocks are about 8" apart.

Originally posted by tsm1mt


In n' forward, or just (roughly) "in"?

In.

Looks like I'm going with 8403 in the front (13.5 inch travel) and 8368 in the rear (12.5 inch travel). $37.00 per shock for a total of $148 plus shipping. Ben, thanks for the Fly-N-Hi recommendation.

Joe

I run Rancho 5012's up front angled back a bit 2 1/2 square tubing tops and the bottom mount is low on the front end and Rancho 5010's out back, welded angle to the stock top mounts and drilled about 3 other holes per side closer in the center so i could adjust them where they would work the best, the lower is in the middle of the rear axle tube.

http://www.nwbinders.net/MemberRides/MarkA/s0000020.jpg

RS9194's, top mounting stock, bottom mounting on brakets bolted to original rear spring perches, bottom eye is roughly centered to bottom of axle tube. Stock (and flat) Scout II springs.... for now :D

Shocks do not limit travel (other than possible binding). Get about 2" negative, and shckle go inline with springs droop. Shocks have about 1/2 more travel each way.

Even thought the lower mounts hang down a bit, I have not had much of a problem with them..... yet. I'm sure I will, but till then they are going to stay (nice and strong, and were REALLY easy to make/add)

I worked out some calcs using AutoCAD last night. Who thought I'd use all the Geometry from HS. :rolleyes: With the 12.5 inch travel DT's I bought, I need to move the top mounts in 2.5" and move the bottom mounts out as far as possible and mount to the bottom half of the axle. This setup will allow full travel of the axle, and the shocks will not limit travel.

Joe

Originally posted by jdjanda
I worked out some calcs using AutoCAD last night. Who thought I'd use all the Geometry from HS. :rolleyes: With the 12.5 inch travel DT's I bought, I need to move the top mounts in 2.5" and move the bottom mounts out as far as possible and mount to the bottom half of the axle. This setup will allow full travel of the axle, and the shocks will not limit travel.

Joe

How far is nearest and farthest distances axle tube to bump stop bracket on yours?

Originally posted by Hooper


How far is nearest and farthest distances axle tube to bump stop bracket on yours?

I'll be using the 4" BS from energy suspension. I still expect the BS to compress to around 2" under load. The tires will most likely be into the wheel wells long before the axle contacts the BS. To solve that problem I'll trim the openings until I have no tire rub. I also plan to move the back of the wheel well openings to allow for more clearance. My goal is zero rub, with the BS limiting upward travel and the springs limiting down ward travel.

Joe

Originally posted by jdjanda


I'll be using the 4" BS from energy suspension. I still expect the BS to compress to around 2" under load. The


How much do those stops cost?



plan to move the back of the wheel well openings to allow for more clearance. My goal is zero rub, with the BS limiting upward travel and the springs limiting down ward travel.

Joe

Sounds good.

Like I mentioned before.. I figure you can stretch the wheel tubs forward 4", back 6", for a 40" tub w/o relocationg the gas filler neck n' such.

On the bump-stops.. on my racer I've been running some "unconventional" bump stops. They've held up, which is more than I can say for the countless stock bump stops other friends have destroyed while punishing thier rigs.

My bump stops?

Ford Escort motor mounts!

$25 or so from NAPA. It looks like a "W" when you get it. The center (upside down V) is pretty hefty, with just little taps making the other corners of the W.

I cut the corners off.

Cut the remaining "V" in half.

I ended up with a pair of rubber/poly and steel reinforced bump stops with a 1/2" bolt protruding from the back side.

Here's a pic..

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/racer/reverse_shackle/4_26_2001/devil_brakehose.jpg

Doesn't compress like the ES would.. but it does give a bit. ;)

Something else to think about..

And when you move your wheel tubs.. PICS! Hopefully you'll get to it before I do. :D

Originally posted by tsm1mt


How much do those stops cost?

$50.00, http://www.4wheelparts.com/product2.asp?imseqn=243&occlass=ENE&cat=SUS


Originally posted by tsm1mt
And when you move your wheel tubs.. PICS! Hopefully you'll get to it before I do. :D

I'm behind on the project as it is. At least I got the shocks ordered, last night I cut the material for the new front shackles. Slow but sure I'll get it done.

Joe

Originally posted by jdjanda


I'm behind on the project as it is. At least I got the shocks ordered, last night I cut the material for the new front shackles. Slow but sure I'll get it done.

Joe

You're behind?? I started my twin-stick 2.46:1 Dana 20 conversion in '98.. and I NEED to get it done.. I'm out of spare t'cases.

At least I have the rear 60 home.. now to get some reamers..

Originally posted by jdjanda


I'll be using the 4" BS from energy suspension. I still expect the BS to compress to around 2" under load. The tires will most likely be into the wheel wells long before the axle contacts the BS. To solve that problem I'll trim the openings until I have no tire rub. I also plan to move the back of the wheel well openings to allow for more clearance. My goal is zero rub, with the BS limiting upward travel and the springs limiting down ward travel.

Joe

The reason I asked is when I did the geometry on mine, (and I might have done it wrong) it penciled out that I could not get a shock that was long enough to allow full droop, that was short enough to allow full stuff for my 33's. Now, with bigger tires, the sheet metal gets in the way sooner, but stuffing 33's, my math (and again, it may have been off) said it wouldn't work.

Originally posted by Hooper


The reason I asked is when I did the geometry on mine, (and I might have done it wrong) it penciled out that I could not get a shock that was long enough to allow full droop, that was short enough to allow full stuff for my 33's. Now, with bigger tires, the sheet metal gets in the way sooner, but stuffing 33's, my math (and again, it may have been off) said it wouldn't work.

I worked it up not accounting for the fender rub, plan to take care of that with the Sawzall :D. I used a lot more drop then will be possible, the springs will limit long before the shock can. According to what I came up with the upper mounts are moved in 2.5" per side, the shock attaches to the lower portion of the axle below the spring pack. It's all rough estimates at this point, the axle is going to move off center when twisted like this \ allowing the compressed side to move outward a tad.

On the compressed side I used a circle centered on the shock mount with a radius of the fully compressed length of the shock to calculate where the bottom mount would need to be. On the dropped side I used the extended length of the shock for the circle radius, centered on the other shock mount. I then drew another circle from the axle center to the compressed shock length. The circle from center point to compressed mount was inside the extended shocks radius, I.E. the shock still had move travel available.

Make sense? I'll try to post of pic of the CAD drawing tonight, all the lines are rough estimates, but close enough for government work. BTW when I did the calcs for the 10.5 travel shocks, I did not have enough down travel in the shock, so the 12.5 travel shock should work perfect.

Joe

Originally posted by jdjanda


I worked it up not accounting for the fender rub, plan to take care of that with the Sawzall :D. I used a lot more drop then will be possible, the springs will limit long before the shock can. According to what I came up with the upper mounts are moved in 2.5" per side, the shock attaches to the lower portion of the axle below the spring pack. It's all rough estimates at this point, the axle is going to move off center when twisted like this \ allowing the compressed side to move outward a tad.

On the compressed side I used a circle centered on the shock mount with a radius of the fully compressed length of the shock to calculate where the bottom mount would need to be. On the dropped side I used the extended length of the shock for the circle radius, centered on the other shock mount. I then drew another circle from the axle center to the compressed shock length. The circle from center point to compressed mount was inside the extended shocks radius, I.E. the shock still had move travel available.

Make sense? I'll try to post of pic of the CAD drawing tonight, all the lines are rough estimates, but close enough for government work. BTW when I did the calcs for the 10.5 travel shocks, I did not have enough down travel in the shock, so the 12.5 travel shock should work perfect.

Joe

Makes sense and seems to pencil out.

Originally posted by Hooper


Makes sense and seems to pencil out.

OK here is what I worked up in CAD, I figure about 14" of drop from the bottom of the bump stop.

Joe

Originally posted by jdjanda


OK here is what I worked up in CAD, I figure about 14" of drop from the bottom of the bump stop.

Joe

Hmm. Looks like I need to remeasure and recalculate on mine. Although I like where my shocks are, It is possible that I will bottom mine out if the back end comes down hard, evenly.

Thanks Joe.

Just re-worked the rear of the racer.

I have some Rancho 7012s lying around.. found out to angle 'em forward I was going to have to put the upper mount pretty much in the top front corner of the "step" - right next to the fuel pump, fuel lines, etc.. just a pain to get it all in there, and at full stuff, the shock would be layin' down at 45-deg.

Then did the same calcing to just move the top mounts inboard in the rear.. came out to 45-deg angle at full stuff.. and I only had to fab the upper mount (not new lowers) and it was easier than building a new x-member, etc..

2x2x.120 box tubing ripped open.

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/6_11_2002/pic11.jpg

Center hole is 1" to fit over the stiffening "dimple" in the stock shock x-member. Other two holes are 3/8 to keep it from spinning and more strength.

Side-to-sides are 5/8" for the shock mounting bolts.

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/6_11_2002/pic13.jpg

Angle cut the ends - not very well - because I could, and it's lighter this way - goes faster. LOL

Mounted to the stock x-member with a 3/4" bolt through the "dimple" and two 3/8" bolts to the sides.

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/6_11_2002/pic16.jpg
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/6_11_2002/pic17.jpg
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/scout/jpg/6_11_2002/pic18.jpg

Hopefully these 12+/-" travel shocks angled inboard more will prevent me from using the shocks as a limiting strap - which is what the 9" travel Cepecks using the stock (well, patched and welded) upper mounts were doing.

Tom,

I like the upper mount. I going to move the entire shock mount up above the frame rails, I should have enough room with the BL.

Originally posted by jdjanda
Tom,

I like the upper mount. I going to move the entire shock mount up above the frame rails, I should have enough room with the BL.

Thanks.

I've been rethinking BLs and such for shock mounts and York mounting and other stuff..

With a 2" BL and good bushings, you might get away with cutting the center out of the stock x-member and maybe use two piece of angle on top of the x-member, bolted/welded to the crossmember, to make your double-shear mount.

Sort of like taking my mount and recessing it "through" the x-member. Just make sure the hole is big enough for the shock body to poke through.

I think, eventually, I'm just going to have to cut the bed and shove the shocks through it and tie it into the (by that time, new and improved) 'cage.. on this rig.

Maybe BL and "through the crossmember" for the trail rig..

how come the shocks hang so low, looks like they would just get ripped off? I like the upper mount!

hehe ok

I ask this same question and got jumped by you guys 2 months ago.

too funny

do a search the toyota page had the best stuff on it i found.

wp

here's some Rancho numbers i got

9143 16 compressed 25 out eye style
9017 16 com. 26 ext. stud style

might help some can't remember were i got these numbers
but hey its the internet.

:flipoff2:

wp

Originally posted by harkinoff
how come the shocks hang so low, looks like they would just get ripped off? I like the upper mount!

They do hang down low, and they are rock fodder.

Good thing this Scout isn't a rock-crawler.. it's a "desert style" race rig.

Same reason I didn't raise the tie-rod above the springs.. if I hit something it's not going to be at idle.. it'll be at WFO, in which case I wouldn't mind if the tie-rod slows me down just a bit before I slam the front axle into something and break it into two. :D

[QUOTE]Originally posted by twodafloor
[B]hehe ok

I ask this same question and got jumped by you guys 2 months ago.

too funny

do a search the toyota page had the best stuff on it i found.
not by me, if they were on my scout like that they would be ripped off

Originally posted by twodafloor
hehe ok

I ask this same question and got jumped by you guys 2 months ago.

too funny

do a search the toyota page had the best stuff on it i found.

wp

Look when the thread starting, back in Feb, shortly after you asked the Q.

I.E. if you had searched you would have found this thread and could have added to it. This is not the old Binder Tech section, you can bring topics back to the top for discussion, and the search works very well.
:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Here are the shots i have on my traveler. I cut the bracket out and pushed it as far up as i could. I then added the center steel and holes. I now use 9010s and up front i made some long travel brackets. First attempt. The new ones i sell are way cooler.

http://www.backcountrybinders.com/images/Rear_Ext.-Shock-Mounts.JPG
http://www.backcountrybinders.com/images/Rear_Ext.-Shock-Mounts1.JPG
http://www.backcountrybinders.com/images/Rear_Ext.-Shock-Mounts2.JPG

Front:
http://www.backcountrybinders.com/images/D.S.extended-shock-mount.JPG
http://www.backcountrybinders.com/images/P.S.extended-shock-mount.JPG

Originally posted by The Fleckster
I now use 9010s and up front i made some long travel brackets. First attempt. The new ones i sell are way cooler.

[/img]

Hey John, consider reselling the Ford shock mounts. A pair from the dealer is under $40.00

I can track down the part # if you need it.

Yea the part number would be cool, but you also know me by now, that i like to make my own stuff so i know the quality of it. I do like the simplicity of the ford style but the looks plus longer alength ability of the ones i make are cool too. Yea shoot me the number when ya find it. Thanks

I use the pro comp's. #932002 (33"/19") in the front and #932000 (27"/16") in the rear.

Front is on shock towers for the upper and the the lower is on top of the tube to keep it out of harms way.

The rear uses the stock upper mount with new lowers down on the axle tube.

It works really well with lots of flex since I added the two inch longer than stock shackles.

Ordered them from 4wp's for $130.00 delivered....due to their mistakes I ended up with a complete extra set of shocks...they were screwy but I ended up with a spare set for my time and aggravation.....so I actually got eight es9000's for $130.00. :D

FWIW,
Wes
:flipoff2: