I have two projects and I can only keep/build one. Please help me decide. I want to build one vehicle to keep forever and wheel in all conditions. This is what I have to start with:

1) '80 CJ7 w/ AMC401, 2bbl, T18a, Dana20 w/ 3.15 lo, sprung under w/ OME springs. It needs: complete axles, spring over, and all the finishing touches.

2) '86 Chevy 1ton w/ 454, th400, np205, lift. It needs: gears, lockers, doubler or kluneV, and all the finishing touches.
[Also, I have a '67 M715 whose body and frame I'd love to fill with all the chevy parts.]

I figure it will take roughly the same amount of $$$ and energy to make myself happy with either one, but I don't know which one I want to sacrifice. Let me know what you all think. Thanks.

I would scrap the jeep. But that's me. With the truck - you've already got all the beef where it needs it. Just toss the bed, maybe bob the frame, sawzall the front fenders and add meats :D

If I were in your shoes...I'd combine them to make a one ton jeep and sell all the rest of the stuff. Good luck!

Originally posted by Tankota
If I were in your shoes...I'd combine them to make a one ton jeep and sell all the rest of the stuff. Good luck!

That's got my vote!

Maybe this should be a pole?? :confused:

Yeah, keep the K30. See my sig, that's what I spent the effort and trouble to go find.

Jeep, I mean come on it has a T18a! :cool:

Originally posted by Tankota
If I were in your shoes...I'd combine them to make a one ton jeep and sell all the rest of the stuff. Good luck!

Funny.....I was gonna say the same thing. Seemed natural to me :D

Originally posted by Rock Toy


Funny.....I was gonna say the same thing. Seemed natural to me :D

BIG ditto. Put the 2 together and part out the rest.

I agree with the transplant of Chevy into Jeep, the M715 that is. Sell the CJ whole, depending on your location and condition it will bring the most coin. Then do the transplant. 715's are so cool. I want one for a daily driver, rag top of course.

Originally posted by Tankota
If I were in your shoes...I'd combine them to make a one ton jeep and sell all the rest of the stuff. Good luck!

Chalk another vote on the board for me too

Thanks for the replies. Now convince me. Why go one way or the other? What components would you keep and what would you add? I figure selling a whole vehicle will be easier than parting out the left overs. Which do you think would be a better all around wheeler (CJ or 1ton)? I'm looking for as much input as possible. I plan to build one and do it right the first time.

Originally posted by newt
Thanks for the replies. Now convince me. Why go one way or the other? What components would you keep and what would you add? I figure selling a whole vehicle will be easier than parting out the left overs. Which do you think would be a better all around wheeler (CJ or 1ton)? I'm looking for as much input as possible. I plan to build one and do it right the first time.

That's why I say go with the 1 ton. You've already got a stout drivetrain - 454 v8, TH400, 205, and 1 ton axles. All you have to do is lock it, remove the bed (or trim the crap out of the fenders) add some meats and GO!

Originally posted by Tankota
If I were in your shoes...I'd combine them to make a one ton jeep and sell all the rest of the stuff. Good luck!

Ditto.

go with the CJ-7. It will be the cheapest to complete and most capable off road. If you want to argue that how many k-30's do you see in ARCA??? the CJ-7 has at leas a 2000lb weight advantage and that is a HUGE benifit offroad, same goes for overall size. All you need is axles, driveshafts, and a traction bar. the damn thing is damn near done already.

Originally posted by NE-RokToy
go with the CJ-7. It will be the cheapest to complete and most capable off road. If you want to argue that how many k-30's do you see in ARCA??? the CJ-7 has at leas a 2000lb weight advantage and that is a HUGE benifit offroad, same goes for overall size. All you need is axles, driveshafts, and a traction bar. the damn thing is damn near done already.

Hmm, how many CJs do YOU see in ARCA? I've seen rigs that look sorta like it might once have been a CJ, but I don't recall ever having seen a CJ, or TJ, etc. The rigs I see have tube frames, 1-2.5 ton axles, 3/4/5 link suspension, coil-overs and hydraulics, injected SBCs and such. Refresh my memory but, how many CJs came with this stuff? Is it still a CJ because it still has about 30% of the tub left and you can still see a vague resemblance? I'm sure this comes across as being smart ass but you asked for an argument. :D

So, take the CJ. Reinforce the frame (what a pain), do shackle reversals, add 1 ton axles (eliminating the ability to sell the 1 ton), change the wheel base (usually extended), full frame mounted roll cage (gotta shore up that flimsy frame), your favorite drive train (probably out of the 1 ton), cut away most of the body, etc. Basically, just change everything and modify the body to clear big tires. Gotta love those Jeeps. ;) Now you have two big piles of parts. Mostly weak Jeep parts that nobody wants unless they are still breaking them and have not upgraded yet.

Or, you sell the CJ (nothing very usefull on it anyway, but they do bring good money :D ) and build the K30. Leave the axles alone, install an inexpensive lift, leave the drive train alone (maybe do an easy retro of TBI), leave the frame alone (plenty beefy), hack away enough body to clear the tires, and go play. Do you think it is too long and you really don’t need all that storage in the bed? Remove the bed, build a cheap flat bed, move the rear hangers forward to where you want them. Pretty easy to get down to 110" wheel base that way. Too wide for you? Put on an S10 cab, a Jeep tub (if you just gotta look like a Jeep), or build a tube body on that bulletproof frame. You could even stick the 715 on the K30 frame without too much trouble. The only reinforcement that K30 frame needs is for the steering box area.

Most of the other stuff both vehicles need to be really serious. Big tires, new shafts, cage, hydro assist steering, etc. Same goes for the coil-overs, multi-links, and such. That's why I left that stuff off.

BTW, I'm really not trying to be a smart ass, even though I did poke a little fun at the Jeep guys (I'm sure I'll get the FAWKING NEWBY flame). These are EXACTLY the thoughts that led me to starting with a K30 and cutting it down (size), rather than starting with a K5 or Jeep and building it up (strength). It's much easier (and cheaper!) to start strong and cut down, than start weak and build up. Cheapest to complete? You gotta be kidding...

Oh, sorry for the book.

What type of wheelin' do you want to do?

Rocks=CJ7

Mud=Truck

Snow?

Sand?

Here's the answer..

Put the chevy stuff on the jeep

Put the jeep eng/trans/tcase in the 715 and sell it

Put the jeep axles under the chevy along with the 715 eng/trans/tcase....then and sell it to billavista !


Bwahahaha ,Bwahahahaha, cough, cough,....... haha... whew!

Damn ! where is my glue gun ? My fuggn sides are splitting !

;)

With this extreemly opinionated group, I was expecting a ton of heated and compelling arguments. It seems the general consensus is to either put the 1ton axles under the CJ and part out all the left-overs, or build the 1ton. This pretty much leaves me right where I started. I'm still looking for more insight from those who have tackled similar problems.

Also, I'd think it would be better to have axles built for the CJ so that set-up is perfect, rather than have to comprimise while using the WIDE 1ton axles. It should also be much easier to unload the K30 if it's in one piece (and selling one of them is required to finance the build up of the other). Please keep the ideas coming.

Maybe I should look at this problem from another point of view. Who wants to help me finance things by buying my extras (CJ7 or K30 and even the M715)?

sounds like you want to keep the jeep and sell the chev, good idea. Not sure what wheelin you want to do, but it sounds like the cj7 is a capable rig with a locker or two. not sure where the full size guy is coming up with all these upgrades that they need. If he knew jeeps he would know that the 76 and newer frames had plenty of beef and reversing the shackles can be up to interpretation as far as being a good idea. The worst part of that jeep is the m20 rear end, and you can upgrade it or scrap it for a d44, the m30 front is just fine with moderate application of the right pedal, looks to me the choice is the jeep unless size is no issue on the trails that you wheel or might want to, there are trails the FS won't go down no matter what you do, at least in our neck of the world.

Take the axles off the truck, put them on the Jeep. Keep the T-18/Dana 20. Put the 454 in the Jeep. 4" springs, spring over, 40" Boggers. It will out-wheel the truck anywhere. It is way lighter, it would probably just fly right through mud and it is still capable for trails.

Oh, then put the 401 and the Jeep axles on the Chevy and sell it.:D

Originally posted by jeep77cj5
not sure where the full size guy is coming up with all these upgrades that they need. If he knew jeeps he would know that the 76 and newer frames had plenty of beef and reversing the shackles can be up to interpretation as far as being a good idea.

Hehe, like I said, allot of it was just poking fun at Jeep guys. :D

I'm actually not *quite* that biased against Jeeps. I actually considered and looked at a number of Jeeps when I decided to get back into rock crawling. I looked at what people were running, what things people were doing to rigs to get the level of capability that I wanted (this is my first attempt at what could be called moderate to extreme rock crawling). And my thoughts and questioning did lead me (pretty much) to the conclusions I posted above. I know that different Jeeps have different weak points but, if I had gone into all that, it would have been longer than it was. Same is true for different models of the K30s (for instance, older 1 ton GM 4x4 had D44s in the front, and some older D60s have weak necked down inner shafts). I also know that the benefit of things like shackle reversals are debatable.

Anyway, in all seriousness, I decided that I wasn't going to choose a base vehicle for my projects based solely on my existing opinions and prejudices. So, I spent some time lurking here and on some other boards for a while. I forced myself to wait while I looked at what people were feeling compelled to do to Jeeps (and similar vehicle) compared to a Chevy (and other full sizes) to create a competent off-road rig that would work at the level that I wanted.

The prospect of paying more for the starting point, and then doing all that work and spending all that money in addition, put me off the various Jeeps. It seemed to me that Jeep guys with rigs that do what I want to do spend almost all their free time and money making truly massive changes which fundamentally change the Jeeps into something else. Something that once was a Jeep, and still looks sort of like one, but that is all. On the other hand, the full-size guys complain (and are harassed about) size the limitations due to the size of the rigs. That's about all the negative comment you hear. Sure, there are multi-links and all sorts of things that people do to them just like Jeeps. But, if you ignore the size issue, a full-size can be a VERY capable and durable rig for comparatively little effort. The only real complaint is size, and it's not really that hard to modify it to Jeep proportions. You don't need major fab skills to dramatically decrease the size. Heck, you can even narrow the axles if you don't want the width, just like you would if you put it on a Jeep. It would still be much easier and cheaper than doing something comparable on a Jeep.

As much as Jeep guys bag on full-size rigs for being too big, many of the more capable Jeeps are running full size axles to help deal with the off-camber traversals. Then they also have problems caused by excessive short wheel base, so they stretch the base. Any number of guys here have done exactly that to their Jeeps. At this point, the only real difference is the sheet metal. Sure, out of the box, with relatively minor mods (as long as you don't go too big on the tires and start breaking things TOO frequently) the Jeep (and other similar vehicles) will go places the full-size can't at a similar level. However, once you start pushing the limits, things change the other way. IMO, this includes 1/2 tons and Blazers in the same catagory as the Jeeps, except you gotta add bigger axles AND cut down the size (if you want small that is). I would rather start with a strong drive train, and cut down the size (including narrowing the axles if you need it) than to start with a small frame and stuffing a stronger drive train in, along with reinforcements to handle those changes. Seems much easier AND cheaper to me.

Sure, this is just my opinion. But I went through the same sorts of questions as the original poster so I thought I would post my conclusions. Only difference is, I was trying to decide what to buy to minimize my investment to get what I want, and he is trying to figure out what to get sell to build what he wants. Maybe my conclusions don't work for him, maybe they do. Hehe, I'm glad everyone doesn't agree with me. Wouldn't be much fun if they did, and the stuff I want/need would be that much harder to find and pay for. It all depends on what you want, what you got, and how you can get from what you got to what you want.

BTW, that reminds me. You Jeep guys have got to start laying off my full-size axles. Especially the D60 fronts. Sheesh, I can hardly even find spare parts. :D

My JEEP has a chevy drivetrain and ford axles and I've modified and improved every bit of it. And to You, it's really not a jeep,
But, when I'm sitting in that badboy, and I just blew thru a bigass mudhole that a bunch of fullsize rigs have not gotten thru., I hear Everybody saying, "DAMN ! That Fawking "JEEP" made your big ole sh*t look sick !!!"
And I like that... :)

Yeah, but you coulda got there cheaper and quicker by starting with a K30 and bolting the Jeep body onto the frame. :eek:

Also, just my opinion (again, I've got lots of em!) but, Mud is about the only place where the size of Jeeps don't give them an inherent advantage. Weight is still a plus but, again, just loose that big body and stick an S10 or Jeep on the frame. Then the only difference is the frame, which translates to strength.

Hey, it's all fun. I've had my tail handed to me at various times by Jeeps, Chevys, Fords, and just about anything else out there. I've also run a CJ7 myself and I absolutely loved it, for a while...
:smokin:

Hell yes it's all in fun... And I'm always glad if there is a "bigass fullsize" around when I'm broke in the middle of a swamp with the ball joints popped off... :)
And they seem to be smiling when I winch thier big dead carcasses out later in the same day...

I do like the looks of a jeep, but a cabtruck probably makes more sence, and would be easier to make bombproof.

I've had this pos for 20 years, so it's kinda grown on me over the years.

My biggest problem w/ the chevy is its massive size (length-width-weight...) and the frame around the steering box has already been fixed once.... Don't you full size guys have problems running most trails due to the size?

If I only had the time, $$$$, and skills I'd use the K30 drivetrain with the M715 (5/4 ton) frame and body and do like 'the government mule' or 'the fire ant' and narrow and bob the body. I love the idea of a short-short bed, a narrowed body and 44"s on minimal lift. The sweet styling of the M715 (rag top and HUGE wheel wells) would be a perfect compliment to the idea. Well, now I'm dreaming.....

Like I said above:
The only real complaint is size, and it's not really that hard to modify it to Jeep proportions. You don't need major fab skills to dramatically decrease the size. Heck, you can even narrow the axles if you don't want the width, just like you would if you put it on a Jeep. It would still be much easier and cheaper than building something comparable from a Jeep

And full-size trucks run *most* trails fine. However, there are some places they can't go without significant body damage (I've seen 'em with bodies narrowed about 2"+ by the trail :D Have you seen Pete's K5? Or the K5 on Armageddon a few weeks ago?), and a very few where they can't go at all. Again, the axles/tires are the widest part and, many of the most capable Jeeps are running full size, full width axles, so it can't be that big a problem. It's all about balance and what you want. Sometimes width is good, sometimes not. Same for long wheel base (ever heard of the Dump Bump?). As always, figure out what works for your area and your interest.

I'm still biased to the K30 though (who'd a figured?). It's SO easy to end up with any wheel base you want. You can easily go as short as 105" (starting to become a little problem shorter than that) which is about as short as anyone wants anymore. You can run 42s with 4" lift without much trouble (like I am). And then you got all the beefy, matched up (no high $$$ adapters and custom shafts) drive train with parts you can find anywhere cheap. Set the WB where you want it as simply as moving the rear hangers. If the full size sheet metal (or damage) bothers you, put a body you like to look at on the frame. If the width is a problem in your area (trees, lots of cool "Jeep" trails with narrow rock passes) then pop a Jeep/Sami/S10 Blazer body on the K30 frame and narrow the axles (just like you would if you put them under the Jeep, you just don't have to do all the fab work {and hope it works!}).

Ok, I'm done now. I've restated and elaborated on my views to the point I'm repeating myself. No more posts from me on this subject. (Cheers in the background)

Newt, sell the cj-7, swap the drivetrain out of the chevy and into the m-715, then sell all the left over parts! Your dream is what you really want so go for it, plus that's a unique rig, don't see many bad-ass M-715's.:p

I agree, if you gotta dream build it. Be unique everyone's driving the cj's and one tons (including me), so i say get the bucks from the cj, drop the body of the 715 on the one ton, do some finishing touches and you got an eye catching, bulletproff 4x4