I have been running without flares for 4 months or so after trimming to fit my 35s. The tires stick out a little, but so far I haven't been hassled in CA. I am planning on being in UT this spring and I hear that the HWY Patrol is a little strict with rigs there. Can someone take a look at these pics and tell me if I will likely be hassled?
http://www.webphotos.com/view_photo.asp?mi=1&smi=1&pl=6&a=52592

With those 12.5's I dont think they would mess with you at all...:usa:

As far as I know, here in Kali you're legal if less than 1" of thread
sticks out past the fender or flare. Someone else will have to say
about Utah.

uggghhh. Can't get webphotos to work, but you can go to the link and see my photos there.

Thanks

SeanP

I doubt you'll be hassled with that. In CA I've driven my EB wih the fullwidth 60's, and the tires stick out about 6-8" and I never got stopped...

I do UT St. inspections. The book say NO part of the tire is to stick outside the body (or flare). So in other words the outside of the tire must be even with the outside of your flare. It also states you cannot be more than 6" wider than stock. But they haven't really bitched too much about that. You must also have mud flaps covering at least 50% of the tire. Height and width. Suspension is as follows.
0-4500 GVWR is 24" to the bottom of the frame
4500-6500 (?) is 26"
6500 and up is 28"

Nothing in the books (yet) about beadlocks.:D

All lighting must conform to federal standards

I got pulled over a few weeks ago and the UHP Trooper wrote me a fix-it ticket for no flaps. My tires stick past my flares about an inch and since I have non samurai flares (YJ) he noticed that I was trying to correct that problem so he didn't write me up for that. He just said put flaps on it and nice rig.....sign here please

Ive been pulled over once here in CA.. My 35's stick out about 4-5" from the front fenders (They are flatfendered) and my rear tires stick out about an inch.. (I have stock TJ flares on the rear) Like I said.. Ive only been pulled over that one time.. and it was midnight and the cop had nothing better to do.. BUT.. I didnt get a ticket..
Scott

Originally posted by jp008
I do UT St. inspections. The book say ......Finally! Ok man I need a favor. Tell me where in the book it says that "Utah can impose licensing/registering vehicle codes on vehicles not registered in the State of Utah". Or even better show me where it says "No state can impose registration/licensing laws on vehicles not registered within the state".

Somewhere someplace this has to be defined. I am going out on a limb here and say that not only is it unlawful to impose someone to conform to a law that isn't applicaple to a vehcile not registered in the state it's just passing through and violates some ferderal commerce and travel laws but it's pretty f-ing unconstitutional.

Not jumping on anyone here I really want to see in black and white where this can be legally done. I know that it is almost impossible for a street beater to know every freaking law and that by writing you a ticket doesn't mean that you are guilty and accept guilt of the violation by signing. That's why you can appear in court for the judge to decide. And that a cop can write you a ticket for anything, doesn't mean much until the judge says so. And in this case of expecting someone from out of state to know and understand licensing/registration laws of of that state and abide by them would be tossed out of court because if for nothing else is an unrealistic expectation of tourists or passersby.

I'm betting that no one can find such a law in Utah state laws and the free commerce and travel laws would be Federal and that it is only the street beater trying to do there job that gets caught in the middle.

Now if I'm wrong and this is completely legal, I'm going to push for a bill to make white cars illegal or better yet make it unlawful to drive in the state with vehicles registered outside of the state in Nevada, man could you imagine the revenue we could generate and since no one will come back and fight it, we get easy money or they get an Failure To Appear and a warrant for their arrest even if the law they broke was unconstitutional.

I know that in Ca there is a code that says they have to honor your out of state drivers license so where do we look to see if they have to honor your out of state legal vehicle. You dont have to stop at the border and install Ca emissions equipment so why would you have to change anything else if it was legal in your home state.

Ok this is what I found....

http://www.le.state.ut.us/

41-1a-202. Definitions -- Vehicles exempt from registration -- Registration of vehicles after establishing residency.
(1) In this section:
(a) "Domicile" means the place:
(i) where an individual has a fixed permanent home and principal establishment;
(ii) to which the individual if absent, intends to return; and
(iii) in which the individual and his family voluntarily reside, not for a special or temporary purpose, but with the intention of making a permanent home.
(b) (i) "Resident" means any of the following:
(A) an individual who:
(I) has established a domicile in this state;
(II) regardless of domicile, remains in this state for an aggregate period of six months or more during any calendar year;
(III) engages in a trade, profession, or occupation in this state or who accepts employment in other than seasonal work in this state and who does not commute into the state;
(IV) declares himself to be a resident of this state for the purpose of obtaining a driver license or motor vehicle registration; or
(V) declares himself a resident of Utah to obtain privileges not ordinarily extended to nonresidents, including going to school, or placing children in school without paying nonresident tuition or fees;
(B) any individual, partnership, limited liability company, firm, corporation, association, or other entity that:
(I) maintains a main office, branch office, or warehouse facility in this state and that bases and operates a motor vehicle in this state; or
(II) operates a motor vehicle in intrastate transportation for other than seasonal work.
(ii) "Resident" does not include any of the following:
(A) a member of the military temporarily stationed in Utah; and
(B) an out-of-state student, as classified by the institution of higher education, enrolled with the equivalent of seven or more quarter hours, regardless of whether the student engages in a trade, profession, or occupation in this state or accepts employment in this state.
(2) Registration under this chapter is not required for any:
(a) vehicle registered in another state and owned by a nonresident of the state or operating under a temporary registration permit issued by the division or a dealer authorized by this chapter, driven or moved upon a highway in conformance with the provisions of this chapter relating to manufacturers, transporters, dealers, lien holders, or interstate vehicles;
(b) vehicle driven or moved upon a highway only for the purpose of crossing the highway from one property to another;
(c) implement of husbandry, whether of a type otherwise subject to registration or not, that is only incidentally operated or moved upon a highway;
(d) special mobile equipment;
(e) vehicle owned or leased by the federal government;
(f) motor vehicle not designed, used, or maintained for the transportation of passengers for hire or for the transportation of property if the motor vehicle is registered in another state and is owned and operated by a nonresident of this state;
(g) vehicle or combination of vehicles designed, used, or maintained for the
transportation of persons for hire or for the transportation of property if the vehicle or combination of vehicles is registered in another state and is owned and operated by a nonresident of this state and if the vehicle or combination of vehicles has a gross laden weight of 26,000 pounds or less;
(h) trailer of 750 pounds or less unladen weight and not designed, used, and maintained for hire for the transportation of property or person;
(i) manufactured home or mobile home;
(j) off-highway vehicle currently registered under Section 41-22-3 if the off-highway vehicle is:
(i) being towed;
(ii) operated on a street or highway designated as open to off-highway vehicle use; or
(iii) operated in the manner prescribed in Section 41-22-10.3;
(k) off-highway implement of husbandry operated in the manner prescribed in Subsections 41-22-5.5(3) through (5);
(l) modular and prebuilt homes conforming to the uniform building code and presently regulated by the United States Department of Housing and Urban Development that are not constructed on a permanent chassis;
(m) electric assisted bicycles defined under Section 41-6-1; or
(n) motor assisted scooters defined under Section 41-6-1.
(3) Unless otherwise exempted under Subsection (2), registration under this chapter is required for any motor vehicle, combination of vehicles, trailer, semitrailer, or vintage vehicle within 60 days of the owner establishing residency in this state.
(4) A motor vehicle that is registered under Section 41-3-306 is exempt from the registration requirements of this part for the time period that the registration under Section 41-3-306 is valid.


Amended by Chapter 12, 2001 Special Session 1

So taken this snippet...
(2) Registration under this chapter is not required for any:
(a) vehicle registered in another state and owned by a nonresident of the state...

and applying this snippet...
(2) (i) being towed;

Then laws under Utah Code -- Title 41 -- Motor Vehicle Act are not applicaple to vehicles who meet the exempt status, specifically not registered in the State of Utah or are being towed within the State. However all Federal Motor Vehicle laws apply.

So the question is...

If a vehicle is not required to be registered with the State of Utah do the laws of required saftey and/or additional equipment apply to a vehicle considered exempt? Or is the comment I made above true?

For more information on US Department of Transportation and US laws in general click here. http://www.access.gpo.gov/uscode/index.html

Thanks for the posts. I am not too worried about my tires sticking out about 1.5-2" past the sheet metal. If I am from CA visiting UT, worst I would get is a fixit ticket, which I would just send in to the court with explanation that CA doesn't require mud flaps, etc.

thanks again

SeanP

I wonder how hard it would be to get one of these permits in Ut
41-6-117.5. Permit to operate vehicle in violation of equipment regulations.
(1) The department may issue a permit which will allow operation of a vehicle in violation of the provisions of this chapter or in violation of departmental regulations.
(2) The permit shall be carried by the driver or in the vehicle and shall be displayed upon demand of a magistrate or peace officer.
(3) (a) In issuing the permits in Subsection (1), the department may limit the time, manner, or duration of operation and may otherwise prescribe conditions of operation that are necessary to protect the safety of highway users or efficient movement of traffic.
(b) Any conditions shall be stated on the permit and a person shall not violate them.

Amended by Chapter 282, 1998 General Session

More Ut code

(2) If the wheel track is increased beyond the O.E.M. specification, the top 50% of the tires shall be covered by the original fenders, by rubber, or other flexible fender extenders under any loading condition.

Originally posted by SeanP
Thanks for the posts. I am not too worried about my tires sticking out about 1.5-2" past the sheet metal. If I am from CA visiting UT, worst I would get is a fixit ticket, which I would just send in to the court with explanation that CA doesn't require mud flaps, etc.

thanks again

SeanP

NOT correct. Most cops here DO NOT WRITE FIX-IT TICKETS! They write real tickets, and you hafta go pay your 50 bucks. You are not going to get pulled over in UT in that vehicle for the tires sticking past the body, but you may get pulled over for not having mud flaps.

My 97 f350 without the rear bumper and they come from Ford that way is not legal according to the law, WHY and how come they dont stop it. Crap even with the bumper its not legal.

Originally posted by smurfsdad
My 97 f350 without the rear bumper and they come from Ford that way is not legal according to the law, WHY and how come they dont stop it. Crap even with the bumper its not legal.

UT laws are written wierd sometimes. You should have seen the lift law we had before we rallied and got it changed last year. Basically most Chevy's were very illegal by the time they got even close to the stock height of most Fords. Jeeps were illegal with 2.5 inches of lift. Once we got the lfit law changed we are lovin it (and just dealing with the mud flap and fender laws). 2.5 inch lifts were illegal before, now my Jeep on 38.5s with springover front and coil rear is legal!:D

The only thing I know for-sure, the UHP will zing a person on is the mud-flap thing. If it's lifted, it has to have mud-flaps that cover the upper 50% of the full-tread width.

To the officer, mud-flaps is a easy ticket- easy to prove. Fender extensions, on the other-hand, could lead into an argument and probably not worth thier time. (I guess)

I was told once, that I needed to get fender-extensions, but they let that slide, in favor of a "Fix-it-ticket" for mud-flaps.


As-far as the out-of-state thing.
I would think there is some legal clause (S/P?) that would state something about "being on Ut maintained high-ways, must conform to Ut. laws."-

I've heard, first hand by-the-way, Ignorence of the law is not an excuse not to abide by the law.
- :confused: < *I quickly went to plan B, "Kiss the judes ars."*

i think the big thing in utah and probably most states is where u are at. big cities are less forgiving (salt lake ) than small towns
half the tread on my tires stick out and i have no mud flaps and i dont get bothered..but i do not under any circumstances drive around slc.


:cool:

OK...answer this one....How do Hot Rodders get away with it ? I mean, some of those guys have NO fenders ! Front and rear open wheels ? Why are they allowed to do it and we(4X4,s) can not ? I see all kinds of fenderless hot rods all over the place in the summer time ? :confused: :eek:

:jeep: __(OIIIIIO)__rOkOn:usa:

My understanding is the reason why the hot rodders get away with it here in Cali is an old law pertaining to the weight of the vehicle, under a certain weight and you become exempt to certain requirements front fenders ect.

XtreamTJ:


Model year...
If it's pre-40s/50s something....The same rules do not applie. Those rigs/hot-rod do have limits, but they are very loose.
It's in the book. (just can't remember it word for word -as-far-as Ut goes)

Originally posted by SeanP
Thanks for the posts. I am not too worried about my tires sticking out about 1.5-2" past the sheet metal. If I am from CA visiting UT, worst I would get is a fixit ticket, which I would just send in to the court with explanation that CA doesn't require mud flaps, etc.

thanks again

SeanP

Utah driver here (that's probably the first time I've volunteered that information:rolleyes: ). I'm running 33 x 12.5" tires on 4" backspacing 10" wheels on my DD/trail rig with butchered up stock XJ flares and haven't been hassled around Salt Lake City(yet). I think my front stick out about 2.5" or so from the edge of the flare and the rear won't quite pass, but only hang out 1" or so.

In summary, I think you'll be just fine with Johnny law, if you don't give him/her a whole lot of attitude (the 'her' officer's around here just come built in with SEVERE attitude -- at least in my experience).

Originally posted by SeanP
Thanks for the posts. I am not too worried about my tires sticking out about 1.5-2" past the sheet metal. If I am from CA visiting UT, worst I would get is a fixit ticket, which I would just send in to the court with explanation that CA doesn't require mud flaps, etc.

thanks again

SeanP

Wrong - I've been popped here in CA 3 times for tires sticking out past the fenders. Don't know what the law is re: mud flaps.

The way Cali auto laws are written, if U R in cali, your car must comfirm to all laws! By law, the tinted front windows must go, etc! A lot of it matters on the officers, and their moods. For a while, while I was in the Air Force, the police would basically sit just off base, nailing the out of state autos for anything they could.

Well we lived in SLC UT for 6mon. & North. Cali for 6mons and never had any problems. Now our cherokee wasn't lifted 8in's when we first came to Ut but, it was before we left. We also had 33's, no front fender flares, no mud flaps, & lic. Oregon. Cops never gave us any hassels especially during EJS in Moab. Now Cali was the same thing except the rear flares were gone & during that time we put 37's w/beadlocks on it. Still no problems. Just moved back to Oregon last month & still no problems but we know we will have to fix it here. Cops just seem to love our family here!:flipoff2:

TJ Chick

Originally posted by Toy 4Runner Man
while I was in the Air Force....Even Utah law recognizes that people in the military not originally from Utah are EXEMPT!


My whole issue with this is the fact that I am Nevada legal and the vehicle is registered and mostly operated in Nevada. As soon as I hit a border though, I'm an outlaw?????? BS

If writting tickets for out of state vehicle's failing to meet Utah state saftey/registration requirements was legal then Utah would be writting tickets to everyone who comes into the state but does not have a current Utah vehicle inspection sticker.

Originally posted by Toy 4Runner Man
The way Cali auto laws are written, if U R in cali, your car must comfirm to all laws! By law, the tinted front windows must go, etc! A lot of it matters on the officers, and their moods. For a while, while I was in the Air Force, the police would basically sit just off base, nailing the out of state autos for anything they could.

I call bullshit on this one!

First off, you CANNOT tint ANY FRONT window.
in any state. Those "banner's" you see on front
windshields, IE, FORD, CHEVY, etc are illegal
in all states.

In Aridzona you can put pretty dark window tinting
on all windows. (front window excluded) as long
as the shade of tint is within their rules.
Texas has the same type of law for this. you still
are required to have 2 outside mirrors.

In calif, NO window tinting (legally) can be done.
except, the rear windows...(same 2-mirrors rule
applies)....

Come awn, how many arizona cars do you see in Calif getting popped for having tinted windows.
in my time, zero. nada.. none.

Alot of the window tinting enforcement in Calif
is up to the officers..... if they are personally
disturbed by it, they enforce it. When I got
popped for tinted windows in my Z, the officer
made the statement, "If you were a cop, and had
to approach a vehicle that you could not see into
at all, would YOU let people have dark-tinted
windows?" I must admit, it puts a different
spin on perspective.............(I was still pissed about having to peel that tinting off...)

--Sherpa

Like it or not, I have been told, true or not, that any vechile entering Cali must conform to Cali vechile code. Right or wrong, I do beleive it, Cali dose have so screwed up laws. For the most part, they are not going to inforce these laws, but they could. I have a feeling that most states have something like that as a rule. U have to follow traffic laws for the state U R in, why not the vechile laws? Just because the laws R not inforced, dosen't mean that they don't exist. Hell, I drive a moving violation all the time, and only get bugged once and a while, usally for the BS things.

Hell, Cali dosen't have any respect for the military as a whole. When I was in Texas, and Mississippi, the respect was incredible, but not in Cali

I have sent the following letter to the taxmaster in Utah. This should generate an interesting response.

Hello,

I have some questions regarding traveling to Moab Utah. I am a Nevada resident and drive a Nevada registered vehicle using a Nevada driver's license. I have read through your laws regarding vehicles and required equipment for registering a vehicle in Utah. I have no plans at this time to become a Utah resident nor register my vehicle in Utah, however I would fail your equipment lists for registration. I bring this up because I have friends who have been nonresidents of Utah driving non Utah registered vehicles with non Utah drivers licenses get tickets for equipment violations that would be legal in the state they are registered. In particular the target of most out of state / nonresidents seems to be Utah's mud flap/fender flare and vehicle lift laws. Although I have chosen to educate myself with respect to Utah law, how am I expected to abide by Utah's vehicle laws when I am completely legal in Nevada and the average tourist isn't going to read through Utah's Constitution to find out if they are legal or not.

I have found the following information in Utah's Title 41 laws.....

41-6-117.5. Permit to operate vehicle in violation of equipment regulations.
(1) The department may issue a permit which will allow operation of a vehicle in violation of the provisions of this chapter or in violation of departmental regulations.
(2) The permit shall be carried by the driver or in the vehicle and shall be displayed upon demand of a magistrate or peace officer.
(3) (a) In issuing the permits in Subsection (1), the department may limit the time, manner, or duration of operation and may otherwise prescribe conditions of operation that are necessary to protect the safety of highway users or efficient movement of traffic.
(b) Any conditions shall be stated on the permit and a person shall not violate them.

Do I need to acquire such a permit? If so where do I apply?

Also under
41-1a-202. Definitions -- Vehicles exempt from registration -- Registration of vehicles after establishing residency.
(ii) "Resident" does not include any of the following:
(A) a member of the military temporarily stationed in Utah; and
(B) an out-of-state student, as classified by the institution of higher education, enrolled with the equivalent of seven or more quarter hours, regardless of whether the student engages in a trade, profession, or occupation in this state or accepts employment in this state.
(2) Registration under this chapter is not required for any:
(a) vehicle registered in another state and owned by a nonresident of the state or operating under a temporary registration permit issued by the division or a dealer authorized by this chapter, driven or moved upon a highway in conformance with the provisions of this chapter relating to manufacturers, transporters, dealers, lien holders, or interstate vehicles;

Wouldn't this definition automatically exempt me from Utah's registration/mandatory equipment laws? If it does not then why are people being cited for fenderflare/mud flap laws that do not exist in the state in which they are registered and finally if this is constitutional why not cite out of state residents for not having current Utah safety inspection stickers?

I appreciate any guidance you can give me in this matter and if need be direct me to the places I need to contact to receive my "Exempt Status Permit" for the duration of my visit to Utah. If I do not need any permit would you please author some sort of official letter I can show to any officer of the law while I travel through Utah and show that I am exempt because I am a not a resident of the state and thereby according to Utah State Law I am not bound by the constitution of the state.

Sent to taxmaster@tax.state.ut.us (You thought I was joking) which is the only email address I could find in the entire Utah law reference website. Since the "taxmaster" is overseer to the DMV in Utah, maybe it will eventually get to the correct person. Now to do the same for Kalifornia.

BD, thanks. Let us know if you get a response next year!

SeanP

Originally posted by SeanP
BD, thanks. Let us know if you get a response next year!Yep, I won't be holding my breath waiting for a response. But I sure would like to hear whatever, whoever writes me back has to say about this.

Originally posted by Belly Dragger
I have sent the following letter to the taxmaster in Utah. This should generate an interesting response.



Sent to taxmaster@tax.state.ut.us (You thought I was joking) which is the only email address I could find in the entire Utah law reference website. Since the "taxmaster" is overseer to the DMV in Utah, maybe it will eventually get to the correct person. Now to do the same for Kalifornia.
try the attorney general:


Questions, Complaints, and Requests: (801) 366-0260
General Office Numbers: (801) 366-0300, (801) 538-9600
Toll Free within the State of Utah: (800) AG 4 INFO (244-4636)
E-Mail: uag@att.state.ut.us

Utah State Capitol Office
236 State Capitol
Salt Lake City, UT 84114-0810
FAX: (801)538-1121

Heber M. Wells Building Offices
P.O. Box 140811
Salt Lake City, UT 84114
FAX: (801)366-0221


Or the UHP for moab area, no email but here is everything else:
Section Nine
(Carbon, Emery, Grand, and San Juan Counties)
Section Commander: Lt. Steven K. Esplin

Section Secretary: Nancy Sanchez

Office Address:
296 East 100 South, Suite B
Price, UT 84501
Office Phone: (435) 637-0980, (801) 965-4532
Office FAX: (801) 965-4532

when i lived in wa. state and came to moab to visit a bunch of years back i had tinted windows. i got pulled over on the interstate in slc. i told the officer that i was just coming to visit and going back and in wa the windows were legal. he told me it did not matter..if i was in utah i had to conform to utah law
its like a helmet law....just because your bike is registared in a state that does not require it dosent mean you cant ride without it in one that doesnt.

Originally posted by moabyj
when i lived in wa. state and came to moab to visit a bunch of years back i had tinted windows. i got pulled over on the interstate in slc. i told the officer that i was just coming to visit and going back and in wa the windows were legal. he told me it did not matter..if i was in utah i had to conform to utah law
.
it does matter, I had the same conversation with the wellington cop that pulled me over for tint just after he got a new light meter and wanted to try it out on me, I politely asked him which state his tint law applied to, when he said utah, I asked if he had seen the Idaho plate on the back of my jeep, and it was not till then that he did any type of check of registration or anything on me, 10 min after he pulled me over. Hummmm, if I had been a criminal, what I could have done in 10 min? the whole thing ended with him saying if I would have seen the Idaho plate I wouldn't have pulled you over.....WTF did you look?

I also sent an email similar to yours buttdragger but to a different address. When i lived in Nv i was here in Ca visiting and got stopped for tinted windows and had the ticket signed off in Nv when i got home. On the ticket it says you can have it checked by any peace officer