How many weeks/months:eek: did it take you to complete your SOA. I'm just wondering if I should try starting mine before the RMIHR or wait till after. I'd hate to miss it again.

I have plenty of experience with custom shiat, so my skill are there.

It took me a few months. Only beacuse i had no time to work on it, too busy with work and all that other good stuff. All together tho I say probaly around 2 to 3 weeks. Most of that time was spent looking for stupid parts like the pipe to inverted flare adapters needed for the adjustable prop valve. Since you have the skills it shouldnt take you as long as it did me. Also not having air tools slowed me down as well:mad3: How long till RMIHR:question: Sucks that I have to miss the Arizona IH rendevous again! Also give yourself some time to find and work out nay bugs, I'm stil doin that on mine. hope that helped,
Brandon

Yeah, I plan on taking it around the countryside here in NE, and down to colorado at least once to work out any "BUGS" before I hit the RMIHR. it's at the end of july if I remember right.

Well I'll be sure not to start the project till I'm sure I'll have a good amount of time. The wife knows that RMIHR is really a GOAL for me to meet so I'm sure she'll understand :rolleyes:

I expected that it'd probably take me a month of working after work sometimes, weekends and taking a couple of days off of work (crossing fingers on that last one)

My biggest problem is that my scout is at my work (family business) so it's not always easy for me to leave from home to go work on it.

PS:I have air tools and a Millermatic 275 so things should go smoothly for me.:flipoff2:

Originally posted by Cliffhanger
PS:I have air tools and a Millermatic 275 so things should go smoothly for me.:flipoff2:

HAHA, all i had was a manualy operated impact device:D Sounds like you have more than enought time to finish it and break a few things trying it ouy:flipoff2: :D Post some progress pics when you start tearing in to her.

Originally posted by Brandonw

Sounds like you have more than enought time to finish it and break a few things trying it ouy:flipoff2: :D Post some progress pics when you start tearing in to her.


Oh yeah I will :nuke: oh and I'll post pics too.;)

how are you doing your SOA??


If your building narrowing a GM axle first, do all the work first then its a weekend swap to do it. Just gather all the parts first and be ready.

If your doing it to the current axle, then you may have longer down time. But again, get all the parts handy before you start. You doing a RS at the same time?? Adds time and complication.



OK, you probably alrady know this, but refresh, assuming current axle no RS:

have ready:

- 4-sets spring perches, 2 for rear, one for driver's side front tube, and another to cut/modify for the passenger side.

- U-bolts, stock can be re-used, but new is nice, build new u-bolt plates for the front. Rear's can be re-used (I still have mine, they work fine). You could probably re-use rear plates on the front too...

- 4 new 3/8" center pins. The stock ones are most likely shot, and they are 5/16", and you have to take them out to flip them. Have a 3/8" drill bit and some cutting oil handy as well. Mine haven't been tough to drill out, but have a spare bit handy. Drill press is nice, but slow hand-drill works.

- "Z" drag-link. Not the "best" but the easiest way to fix the steering

- file, reamer or one of Snoopy's "Flip-serts" for attatching "Z" link to bottom of knuckle.

- Extended brake lines for front and rear. The Ford E-350 line works great for the rear, Hooper has some PN's for extenders for the front. (hoop?)

- Magnetic protractor for setting angles.

- shock solution, can be done another weekend though.

- 4" grinder and a dozen or so wheels (can never have enough wheels :D


Rear: about 1/2 day. Its actually quite easy. You can also do the rear one weekend, then the front the next. Looks funny, but its "roll-able" and you can still drive it.

Front will take longer, but I feel you *should* be able to get it all set-up one day (stripped, and ground, grind yokes if you need cut-n-turn), then finished (set angels and weld perchs, bolt in place, set caster, weld, re-install) on the next. As long as you don't have to make trips to the store and make things more dificult....

You can do other things, like RS and high-steer later. If you point the pinion at the t-case, you will probably even be able to reuse your stock front drive shaft.


hmm, you know, I should try this one weekend.... god knows I got the parts around here... and I got my new fire stick.. but I already have a SO rig......:D :D

How tall is your roof?

My scoutII will be within a couple inches of the height of yours and I'm thinking of renting a garage from my landlord if her garages are tall enough for when I'm done.

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite
how are you doing your SOA??


If your building narrowing a GM axle first, do all the work first then its a weekend swap to do it. Just gather all the parts first and be ready.

If your doing it to the current axle, then you may have longer down time. But again, get all the parts handy before you start. You doing a RS at the same time?? Adds time and complication.



OK, you probably alrady know this, but refresh, assuming current axle no RS:

have ready:

- 4-sets spring perches, 2 for rear, one for driver's side front tube, and another to cut/modify for the passenger side.

- U-bolts, stock can be re-used, but new is nice, build new u-bolt plates for the front. Rear's can be re-used (I still have mine, they work fine). You could probably re-use rear plates on the front too...

- 4 new 3/8" center pins. The stock ones are most likely shot, and they are 5/16", and you have to take them out to flip them. Have a 3/8" drill bit and some cutting oil handy as well. Mine haven't been tough to drill out, but have a spare bit handy. Drill press is nice, but slow hand-drill works.

- "Z" drag-link. Not the "best" but the easiest way to fix the steering

- file, reamer or one of Snoopy's "Flip-serts" for attatching "Z" link to bottom of knuckle.

- Extended brake lines for front and rear. The Ford E-350 line works great for the rear, Hooper has some PN's for extenders for the front. (hoop?)

- Magnetic protractor for setting angles.

- shock solution, can be done another weekend though.

- 4" grinder and a dozen or so wheels (can never have enough wheels :D



That's pretty comprehensive, but I'm using my 3/4Ton Axles out of my blazer so the rear Plates can't be reused.....

I have a steering solution crossover style (My custom set-up *but the basic idea is from someone else*) using ROckstomper Tie-Rod and Drag-link and MOOG Ends.

No shock solution yet, but RS9000's in the future

I'm waiting on parts mike for 2" wide spring perch prices.

I have skyjacker 6" SS-extended brake lines from my blazer, but I don't know if these will work.

Where can I get new center pins, I keep forgetting to ask about this?????


Need a protractor, need a new grinder (mine gave up the ghost on it's last use)

Not doing Shackle Rev. Not doing Z-link.

I'm hoping to use the driveshafts off of my blazer (shortened) which sucks cause I just got New U-joints for those but the 205 yoke used the larger joints (it was out of a 1-Ton) and I'm sure the D20 Doesn't.

Why the 4th one for the pass side I thought with full width D44 I just needed to oval out the center hole and it would "SLIP" right in???

I think that covers it all though.

That's pretty comprehensive, but I'm using my 3/4Ton Axles out of my blazer so the rear Plates can't be reused.....


OK, makes life simpler. You will need to buy/make an about 8º shim for the spring pads to get the pinion to point at the t-case. Figuring stock Scout II springs. We used a 7º shim on Hoopers, and it could use a *little* more. You could also grind the back side of the perch (angle it). This is what I did on mine (in addition to the shim) because my springs are at a different angle than stck (RS)


I have a steering solution crossover style (My custom set-up *but the basic idea is from someone else*) using ROckstomper Tie-Rod and Drag-link and MOOG Ends.

OK, that will work. Probably need to go with a Waggy pitman arm. Its shorter and uses the GM style larger TRE taper.


No shock solution yet, but RS9000's in the future

I'm waiting on parts mike for 2" wide spring perch prices.


Shocks can wait, not too hard, just figure out how you want to mount them. I get my perches at the local 4x4 shop. Trailmaster's I think. Or you can make them (2" box tubing and a hole saw).


I have skyjacker 6" SS-extended brake lines from my blazer, but I don't know if these will work.

should be able to. You will need some adapter to convert the GM smaller inverted flare to the larger Scout flare... or bend up a new front brake line... but that takes time. A decent NAPA should have the addapter you need. I *think* they are are a 3/16" Inverted Flare (male) to 1/4" Inverted Flare (female). You will need two.


Where can I get new center pins, I keep forgetting to ask about this?????

I get mine at the 4x4 shop again. $6.00 for (2) 3/8" pins with nuts. (actually, I pay less, they like me there :D). Rancho is the manufacture.


Need a protractor, need a new grinder (mine gave up the ghost on it's last use)


Protractors are cheap, Sears Craftman, so when you break it you can get a new one :D. For a grinder, I REALLY like my 4.5" Makita. More expencive, but a nice and smooth unit. Course a cheap $20 HF unit is good for getting dirty and trashing (such as abusing with grinding, just don't drop it, they are after all $20 POS's)


Not doing Shackle Rev. Not doing Z-link.

I'm hoping to use the driveshafts off of my blazer (shortened) which sucks cause I just got New U-joints for those but the 205 yoke used the larger joints (it was out of a 1-Ton) and I'm sure the D20 Doesn't.

cool, make life simpler. Front shaft can always be made later as well. Build it afterwords, so you can measure what you need.

Why the 4th one for the pass side I thought with full width D44 I just needed to oval out the center hole and it would "SLIP" right in???

on a GM, yes, if you were using a SUA axle, then you would need to grind/build a perch on the housing.


Not to hard, and it sounds like you have the skills.


BTW, mine was done in my family buisness warehouse as well :D :D

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite

OK, makes life simpler. You will need to buy/make an about 8º shim for the spring pads to get the pinion to point at the t-case. Figuring stock Scout II springs. We used a 7º shim on Hoopers, and it could use a *little* more. You could also grind the back side of the perch (angle it).

you are talking front right?? Where did you find a 7* shim, all I've ever seen is 2-3*


OK, that will work. Probably need to go with a Waggy pitman arm. Its shorter and uses the GM style larger TRE taper.


I have a 4" dropped pitman arm off of a Ford something (from parts mike) But I don't know if I even need dropped anymore...That I'll have to figure out when I get there.

I get my perches at the local 4x4 shop. Trailmaster's I think. Or you can make them (2" box tubing and a hole saw).


I've heard that any 2" perches besides RE's are kinda micky mouse (weak). I've been thinkin' about the tubing, but I'd rather spend the cash on that one


You will need some adapter to convert the GM smaller inverted flare to the larger Scout flare... or bend up a new front brake line... but that takes time. A decent NAPA should have the addapter you need. I *think* they are are a 3/16" Inverted Flare (male) to 1/4" Inverted Flare (female). You will need two.

Thanks that'll save me some hunting

........center pins.

I get mine at the 4x4 shop again. $6.00 for (2) 3/8" pins with nuts. (actually, I pay less, they like me there :D). Rancho is the manufacture.

maybe I'll call parts mike for these also, thanks :D



on a GM, yes, if you were using a SUA axle, then you would need to grind/build a perch on the housing.

ohhh...ok..you had me worried:zzz:


Not to hard, and it sounds like you have the skills.

I hope so after my coil conversion.


BTW, mine was done in my family buisness warehouse as well :D :D

That's cool.

the perches I've gotten have been OK. No problems yet. They aren't "trailer" perches. If PM can set you up,then by all means go for it!!

If you have a hard time with the center pins, I can run down and get a set and send them to you. Piece of cake. Same with the addapters if you strike out. I've kind of found most of these things around me.. not too hard though.


The shims however were custom. I made them on the mill at my old work. Easy to do, I just don't work there any more :( Local machine shop should be able to make them up. Mine were 2" wide, becasue thats what material I had. I would do them 2.5, to match the pearch width.. for WHEN you go 2.5" wide springs :D. I welded them to the housing as well, they ain't going anywere :D :D.

DON'T use the dropped pitman arm. You will probably be OK with you stock Scout II arm, but on negative arch it *may* hit the spring. The Waggy is flat and shorter (7" as opposed to 9") and will help clear the spring. Any drop arm will put it right into the spring.... bad :)

(fyi, you can make the º symbol by holding "alt" and typing "0186" on the number key pad.... if your a PC user :flipoff2:)


good luck, you should have no problem!!


-mark

I just got off the phone with PM he can get me the brake adapters for $1 ea, the center pins for $3ea and the spring perches for $32ea :eek: (maybe i should make these. shit I could probably have a local shop make em cheaper than that.

thanks for the info on the pitman arm. glad to know I blew $65 of the father-in-laws money.:(

º ....cool....:p

My Scout just brely fits in my carport. Maybe about four inches left over. Just make your own spring perches out of 2x2 or 2x3 .250 wall bix tubing. It's plenty strong, may not look as pretty as a factory perch but its cheaper. I built a set of shock hoops for the front and am running dual Rancho 9012's. For the rear I just welded a 5 inch long peice of 1/4 in. stock and drilled a hole in it and used the stock top mount. Reused a set of old shock I had alying around. Gotta come up with a better way to mount them tho. I hate that stock top mount. That 3/16 to 1/4 inverted flare adapter took me FOREVER to find!!! Finally found it at Make Model Year. They carrt weird and hard to find stuff like that. I'll get measurement of the Scout soon. :smokin:

Originally posted by Brandonw
Just make your own spring perches out of 2x2 or 2x3 .250 wall bix tubing. It's plenty strong, may not look as pretty as a factory perch but its cheaper. . :smokin:

I want to but, I don't have a hole saw. I'm telling you I should be able to have a shop here make 'em for like $10ea.

My frame-up SOA took about 9 months of parts gathering and preparing, and a week of thrashing. :D

Instead of adapting the Chevy lines to the stock SII hard-line, I found it easier to buy a new length of pre-flared tubing from the parts store of the appropriate length.

Run that from the pass side around to the driver's side, where I had to buy a new "T" block.

I couldn't find the adapters (at least, not without using 3 or 4 together) to use the Chevy brakes with the Scout hardline. Just wasn't worth the trouble.

Move the hard-line mount down to the bump stop bracket to get more travel. DEFINITELY use a small bungee cord to keep the brake line away from the bump stop (ask me how I know this..)

For the front, you don't need any new perches.

In the rear, you could always cut the stock GM perches off, move 'em, and weld 'em. That's what I did on my Travelall rear '44.

On my other rig, I made my perches from 2x2x.250" box tubing with a 2.75" hole-saw. I'm making some for Joel out of 2x3x 3/16", too..
One of the advantages to the box-tubing perches.. I have 180-deg to weld to. Haven't bent them or broken them off like I did to the stock IH perches, either. :D

When you do the rear, you might want to offset the rear axle back an extra 3/4" or 1" (depends on how you plan to tub the back and whether you need to keep the rear seat and stock rollbar mounting points, etc)

I did mine by offsetting the center pin hole in the perch and U-bolt plate.

Center pins - I buy mine at NAPA. I don't have any part numbers handy.. but I haven't had any problems getting them.

I think I bought some at Champion Auto once, too.

I ran the Chevy front with NO shims and a stock (from the same rig with a D30 front end) driveshaft. Yokes needed a little clearancing, and no doubt U-joints wouldn't have lasted too long.. but they lasted 2 summers of racing.

Didn't bind at full droop - and at the time I went up the ramp at RMIHR with 40" of tire-pick..

The E350 rear hose, or you can go with the Wagner hose I have listed on my site as well. It's 8" over stock instead of just 6"

I did the E350 on "Tigger" and the Wagner # on "Little Devil"

Like Mark said - NO to dropped pitman arms! You'll smack the spring.

Go with just a single high-steer arm on the passenger knuckle and just raise the draglink if you need to keep costs down.. you can always add the arm to the driver's side later.

Hey why are you guys suggesting a 3/8" center pin instead of a stock size 5/16" ????

Brandon, you never answered (not that I saw anyway) how Tall is you rig??

Originally posted by Cliffhanger
Hey why are you guys suggesting a 3/8" center pin instead of a stock size 5/16" ????



hmm, *actually* a good question.... but then, why not?? I have seen/heard a couple people busting the 5/16.. and its an easy upgrade... its like going to 8-lug, when's the last time you heard of people shearing off the 5-lug stuff :D


*I* like the 3/8" pins, never had a problem with them, and since you have to replace them anyway (I still haven't gotten an old, original set out of a set of springs in "uasble" condition)...

I have broken one on the trail before. Didnt even know it, the front axle sliddown the spring pushing the 33 into the firewall. This was with the ones Superlift supplied for with their 4in lift springs. Make sure the bolt on the leafpack is tightened real good too.

Originally posted by Cliffhanger
Hey why are you guys suggesting a 3/8" center pin instead of a stock size 5/16" ????

Brandon, you never answered (not that I saw anyway) how Tall is you rig??

Well, when I pulled my "one year old" 5/16" center pins from my front springs, they were bent from the impact.

I drilled the springs out for 3/8" pins that'll be going in as soon as it gets a tad bit warmer..

The 5/16" pins sure do look pretty wimpy next to the 3/8" ones. :D

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite

DON'T use the dropped pitman arm. You will probably be OK with you stock Scout II arm, but on negative arch it *may* hit the spring. The Waggy is flat and shorter (7" as opposed to 9") and will help clear the spring. Any drop arm will put it right into the spring.... bad :)

good luck, you should have no problem!!
-mark

Hey one more thing, I'm calling parts mike and he wants to "make sure I get the RIGHT pitman arm this time" (he's giving me a trade on the one I had bought for my blazer, but never mounted (This is why I like dealing with him)

So do we know what year waggy to get the arm off of??? 2wd or 4wd any other info on it I might need.:beer:

I don't know... the one I have was actually off one of the earlier "big" Cherokee's... D44 w/discs.... I *think* most of them are the same, but not sure.

you can use the pics I posted in the other thread....

The waggy/cherokee is the center one....

Originally posted by Cliffhanger

Brandon, you never answered (not that I saw anyway) how Tall is you rig??

Sorry bout that, the top of the Scout is 80 inches tall( no roof rack or anyhting on top)and my carport is onky 85 inches tall. Wich means I can still get a few inches in before she wont fit under there:D

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite
I don't know... the one I have was actually off one of the earlier "big" Cherokee's... D44 w/discs.... I *think* most of them are the same, but not sure.

you can use the pics I posted in the other thread....

The waggy/cherokee is the center one....

Yeah I e-mailed him those pics so he knew exactly what I was looking for, thanks for posting them.

So here's all the parts I have to do my SOA

2- Spring perches for rear axle

2- spring plates for rear axle

4- U-bolts for rear axle

1- U-bolt kit for front axle on order from parts mike (includes spring plates)

4- 3/8" center pins

1- Custom crossover steering set-up, may need to shorten the DL

2- Stainless Steel Extended brake lines for front (still need rear)

1- 4" Grinder and a 7" grinder on the way

1- Waggy pitman arm

1- Set of ALL NEW suspension bushings

Still need Shocks (RS900's painted black) and a Magnetic angle finder.

I decided to hol off on the degree shims until I know for sure what degree I need (if any)

I know it's hard to drill new Holes into leaf springs, but it is easy or hard to make the stock 5/16" hole, the 3/8" size. I don't have a drill press, but I have a SWEEET DeWalt!!

Anything else I'm missing?:question:?

Originally posted by Cliffhanger

I know it's hard to drill new Holes into leaf springs, but it is easy or hard to make the stock 5/16" hole, the 3/8" size. I don't have a drill press, but I have a SWEEET DeWalt!!

Anything else I'm missing?:question:?

When I drilled my rear springs, piece of cake.. fronts were a little more difficult though. I *did* do the fronts in the truck, lyin' in the mud in front of the garage.. which might help explain. :D

Fresh drill bits help.

If I would've wanted to pull the springs, my drill press would've made short work of it.. ;)

hmmm, looks good, nothing jumps out at me....


Figure a couple days in setting angles/getting the shims you need.


Drilling the springs is usually quite easy. Get a couple new/sharp bits, use cutting oil, and go slowly. Most of them will be easy (practicaly the right size already). Hold the drill strait and take it spin it slow...


piece of cake.


Wish I was comming to RMIHR this year.... next year. We'll sit back and have a couple of :beer: :beer:

Originally posted by Cliffhanger
2- Stainless Steel Extended brake lines for front (still need rear)

Which SS lines are you using? I used the Sky Jackers, and they are not long enough, for my SOA to 1.5". I'm going to add some hard line in at the banjo fitting to extend and position the soft lines.


Originally posted by Cliffhanger
1- 4" Grinder and a 7" grinder on the way


Don't forget grinding wheels, and a whole sheet load of cut off wheels. You might have better luck using the cut off wheels on the knuckle welds.

Originally posted by Cliffhanger
1- Set of ALL NEW suspension bushings


Do you still have the stock bushings? I found the easiest way to remove the stock bushings is to; drill four holes in the bushings, then use my air hammer to push out the metal sleeve and bushing.


Originally posted by Cliffhanger
I know it's hard to drill new Holes into leaf springs, but it is easy or hard to make the stock 5/16" hole, the 3/8" size. I don't have

It was a piece of cake with a high quality drill bit. Used a hand drill. Clamped the springs down tight, removed the old pin, drilled new hole. 5 minutes a side.

Total time for mine, not including shocks, and with the help of another person.

Rear, 6 hours on a Sunday
Front, 8 hours on a Sunday, 3 4 hour after work sessions.

The front included new spring mounts, wider axle, lunch box locker install.

Originally posted by jdjanda

Which SS lines are you using? I used the Sky Jackers, and they are not long enough, for my SOA to 1.5". I'm going to add some hard line in at the banjo fitting to extend and position the soft lines.

Yeah the skyjackers:( I'll probably just remove the hardline from it current location and lower it like I did on my Chevy. Where yours the 6"-ers. It's hard to belive they aren't long enough.


Don't forget grinding wheels, and a whole sheet load of cut off wheels. You might have better luck using the cut off wheels on the knuckle welds.

Yeah I alread bought a bunch, when I got the 4" grinder and I'm probably not going to include cutting and turning the knuckes with the SOA. that will come later.


Do you still have the stock bushings? I found the easiest way to remove the stock bushings is to; drill four holes in the bushings, then use my air hammer to push out the metal sleeve and bushing.

I've always torched them out if they are a PITA


It was a piece of cake with a high quality drill bit. Used a hand drill. Clamped the springs down tight, removed the old pin, drilled new hole. 5 minutes a side.

Cool, and I was thinking of taking them to a shop. Thanks.

Well guys it looks like I'm a GO......

Weekend of the 6th or the 13th it AWWNNNN!!!!!

Originally posted by Cliffhanger
Well guys it looks like I'm a GO......

Weekend of the 6th or the 13th it AWWNNNN!!!!!

Woo-hoo!

Just be sure to take lots of pictures of the carnage and mistakes. :D

I have all of Sunday to wrench.. if I can just get those stubborn axle U-joints out of my axle shafts and get the new ones in, I'd have the racer back together on Sunday..

Must be the original U-joints installed in 1974.. who needs full-circle snap-rings when you have 28 yrs of RUST holding the caps in place? :D

Originally posted by tsm1mt


Woo-hoo!

Just be sure to take lots of pictures of the carnage and mistakes. :D

:D

Mistakes...uh, I don't DO mistakes...that must be a Montana thing.....:flipoff2:

Don't worry there will be pics abound, I'm buying 4 rolls of film and I'll have my digi on hand for instant gratification. :D:D:D

Originally posted by tsm1mt


I have all of Sunday to wrench.. if I can just get those stubborn axle U-joints out of my axle shafts and get the new ones in, I'd have the racer back together on Sunday..


Use your Ball Joint press on the axle joints. I torqued the screw down as hard as possible then tapped it with the 5 lb. Worked like a charm, about 10 minutes a side.

Joe

Originally posted by jdjanda


Use your Ball Joint press on the axle joints. I torqued the screw down as hard as possible then tapped it with the 5 lb. Worked like a charm, about 10 minutes a side.

Joe

The ball-joint POS was the first thing I tried.. fawkin' thing keeps walking on me..

I made some progress last night - used a 1.25" socket to back up the U-joint, and a 3/4" socket against the opposite cap and stuck it in my vice, which I have sitting on the floor (I was working on building a shop cart to mount the vice to last night).. then proceeded to hit the vice handle with the BFH and at least it MOVED the cap.. but then setting it back on the vice and beating on it with the sledge didn't make the joint move any more.

Maybe I'll try the ball-joint clamp again and then hit it with the hammer tonight.

I tried to use the press on my ball-joints.. I ended up using the sleeves in the kit, and my BFH.. worked MUCH better.

I'm not at all impressed.. should've just skipped the Ball-joint kit and bought the 20T press I want. :D

On the plus side, I started making the adapter I need to use my 10T porta-power with my JD2 last night.. just didn't feel like firing up the chop-saw at 1am to finish the job.. woo-hoo!

And Pacific Steel said they'll deliver for free when I order the tubing..