I'm learning more every day, so bear with me. I'm not a complete idiot, but definatly don't claim to know a great deal about suspension and am trying to take baby steps in improving what I have with the budget I'm limited to



Late model bronco with the stock TTB. Not doing an SAS until I'm FORCED to...I.E. something breaks.

But I need to replace my front springs and wanted to know more about coilovers and the possiblity of using them on a TTB front end.


Is it possible?
Has anyone here done it? (search said PLENTY of SAS's guys have, and I read alot of those posts, but saw no TTB posts)
Why would it NOT work (I.E. if it's a stupid idea, please enlighten me as to WHY it's a stupid idea)
Would this eliminate the radius arms if it DID work?
Where would be a good place to START looking (pricing) to get an idea of what it would cost
If it does actually work out, would there be any reason the coilover set-up would NOT work into an SAS one day if I grenaded the TTB?






Thanks

Is it possible?
Yes, but pointless

Why would it NOT work (I.E. if it's a stupid idea, please enlighten me as to WHY it's a stupid idea)
Spending 500-600 for coilovers on Stock TTB, is stupid, the coils are not the problem on TTB

Would this eliminate the radius arms if it DID work?
Why do you think that? All a coil over is a spring and shock, it has no sort of alxe localtion devices.

Where would be a good place to START looking (pricing) to get an idea of what it would cost
www.pollyperformance.com

If it does actually work out, would there be any reason the coilover set-up would NOT work into an SAS one day if I grenaded the TTB?
Dpends on what coil over you have and what the mounting is like

Thanks




Why do you think that?


because noone has ever told me otherwise. Now they have

Go with a SAS, not a hard project, you will be happier in the long run.

probibly will eventually.....just need to break something first. Can't justify it just because everyone else says it's the bomb-diggity (whatever the hell the kids say these days)

Well when you are ready to do it go with a 60 right off, I did the 44 and now i'm doing the 60.

there is a guy on fsb who did it

you can make the TTB flex REALLY good, it just takes a lot of money, and by the time you spend that money on making it flex good (while still having all the other problems the ttb has) you could have done an SAS and not had to worry about breakin it (alot stronger than a TTB is) Just my $.02

If you haven't broken the ttb yet your not trying hard enough so there is no need to plop $$$ on some coilovers.

Have a 44 or a 60 ready to go and when your ttb breaks (cuz it will) then you might have reason to go with some coilovers.

I'm one of the guys actually running a TTB and liking it (I know - flame on - but we'll be at the top of the same hills at the end of the day...)

IMO, the springs DO have something to do with having good flex with the TTB and in fact, the reason most people hate the TTB is becasue they are running springs FAR to heavy for good OFF-ROAD capability.

I am getting around 18" of travel out of my current TTB setup by using long shocks and softer springs - but finding the right springs is a major hassle - almost all the manufactures like to stay at or even a tad heavier than the factory stuff. I'm currently running some mystery springs (out of a salvage box at the local Jeep Performance) that are almost perfect, in that they truly let me have some flex, up and down.

I've seen a couple trucks running coil overs on the TTB and they work VERY well. The great thing is that once you have the coil overs, they will also work for an SAS should you decide to go that way. There is no loss there.

As far as cost - I really don't have much in money spent on my TTB setups... figuring that I already HAVE the TTB (don't have to puchase a new axle) already have steering, - axle mounts, etc. I am way ahead of the game compared to the $1000 + it generally takes to make the move to SAS. With $1000 I can do a LOT with my TTB before reaching its limits, especially when I make all my own stuff for it (long arms, etc.).

So - do what you want - it's your truck - you get to walk if it sucks - and take the jeers from the crowd - OR just once in a while hear, "Wow, I never knew that the Ford's could do that..." (Which I hear all the time :D )

just once in a while hear, "Wow, I never knew that the Ford's could do that..." (Which I hear all the time :D )


I have a friend with a little white 99 taco with a 3" OME lift and 33's sportin IFS that stumps the HELL out of people every time he goes out heres a short clip (http://www.rnrfab.com/rich/videos/brucegetsair.mpeg)


http://wrangler.rutgers.edu/albums/uwharrie11-26-04/100_4349.sized.jpg

I wouldn't mind stumpin folks either.....but if it fails...I will be going dana 60 and 14 bolt. I'm not wasting time on a 44 and 9"

Well we established TTB is somewhat stout and can flex with the right mods but one fact remains. It is still an alignment and steering nightmare when modified.

Sure you can put a coilover in there. Here is a pic. of a Bronco prerunner with a coilover, a triple bypass, and hydro bumpstop.



http://www.camburg.com/images/extremetrucks/ExtremeExplorer/Powdercoat/DriverSuspensionFront.jpg

It is still an alignment and steering nightmare when modified.


Everyone always says that, but I have never had an issue with TTB Fords.

In fact I recall a 81' bronco I had as a DD, threw a 4" lift on with 38" TSL's and never got it aligned, and never fucked up the tires..........

Then again I have never had an issue with Ford 400's or 351-m's.........most speak about oiling issues, built plenty no problems............

Everyone always says that, but I have never had an issue with TTB Fords.

In fact I recall a 81' bronco I had as a DD, threw a 4" lift on with 38" TSL's and never got it aligned, and never fucked up the tires..........

Then again I have never had an issue with Ford 400's or 351-m's.........most speak about oiling issues, built plenty no problems............

Did you ever drive it?
TTB's eat tires, Heck even ford admits it

I have a friend with a little white 99 taco with a 3" OME lift and 33's sportin IFS that stumps the HELL out of people every time he goes out heres a short clip (http://www.rnrfab.com/rich/videos/brucegetsair.mpeg)


Now add some wet slick conditions to that climb, where your going to have to be reving it up to try and bump up that ledge and we'll see how a stock IFS or TTB setup does. The TTB/IFS debate has been beaten to death.

I guess if it works for you than more power to you.

The TTB/IFS debate has been beaten to death.
.


With an aluminum bat...but I never raised the question about the opinion of the 2....I just asked about coilovers and whether they would benefit a TTB setup

Did you ever drive it?
TTB's eat tires, Heck even ford admits it

Yes Sir........2 1/2 years..........in Wisconsin, so that means snow&ice :flipoff2:

Now add some wet slick conditions to that climb, where your going to have to be reving it up to try and bump up that ledge and we'll see how a stock IFS or TTB setup does. The TTB/IFS debate has been beaten to death.

I guess if it works for you than more power to you.

Oh - you mean like this...

http://www.explorerforum.com/data/2/15014Jeep_Mud.jpg

I wheel in Kentucky and Tennesee - that's all we get... and it works for me...

Oh - and I pulled that particular hill - the Jeep didn't.

Here is a parking lot shot - I have around 4 more inches to go before the tires get off the ground... The Ranger on the side has about 4 more inches of travel than the Exploder...

http://www.explorerforum.com/data/500/15014Front_end_Exploder.jpg

when I was ttb, i could NOT keep a straight tie rod to save my life. Including the "upgrade" of going to f250 stuff.

















edited for ommited word

back to topic.....I would say yes, you could install coil overs on the TTB. but I would spend my money in other places. like if you know you are going to go solid axle I would just start building your axle with the money. think about it, when you do break something you could do the swap that weekend instead of being down for a few weeks. like if you have problems finding an axle, the housings can be found for about $150, while you are at it buy the new carrier you will need if you want lower gears, and so on......just get what is in your reach. I am not saying the TTB is total junk but if you know you are swapping don't spend money twice.

Troy, I thought you were going to sell that POS? :rolleyes:

Man are the TTB myths flying in this thread :rolleyes:

TTB eats tires due to three reasons:
One is when the steering angles are all fawked up by some cheapass poorly designed 6" bolt-on liftkit (yes, this unfortunately is a majority of them),
2nd is when stupidass moron alignment technicians are too fuckin' braindead to figure out how the camber/caster bushings work, and that different degree bushings are usually needed to CORRECTLY put a wheel alignment on it (and I do my own alignment because of this).
The last reason is related to the first reason; cheap liftkits and their flimsy shit brackets can't hold the damn axle in place properly :rolleyes:
NONE of this is the fault of Ford or the suspension.

Stiff coils ARE infact one of the BIGGEST limitations of Twin-Beam suspensions. If people cared to try some better coils on it, they'd know this. Certainly no one thinks stiffassed coils on a straightaxle would flex very well either, do they...?? Anybody ever tried continuing to use their TTB lift coils on their SAS? They don't work so well, huh? :flipoff2:


I would take a look over at www.therangerstation.com for stuff on TTB suspensions. You ain't gonna find much help on it here. Most of it there is about the smaller Ranger D35 axles, but the same principles do still apply to the D44. There are many users there who have made it work very well on fairly small budgets
Making the coilovers work on a future straightaxle is nothing more than a matter of changing the coilsprings on them for a different spring rate (if even needed).

Now, if you're looking to enter in competitions, then yes, you shouldn't be wasting time with puny little D44s, you should be looking straight to the D60s and ditching the rear 8.8 (or 9) for a 10.25 or 14b.

Anybody ever tried continuing to use their TTB lift coils on their SAS? They don't work so well, huh? :flipoff2:

That's because of a little thing called physics. :rolleyes:

:laughing: Where the hell are all of the antennas? I saw that guy at Tellico once. He had enough radio equipment on board to rech Mars!

I have a friend with a little white 99 taco with a 3" OME lift and 33's sportin IFS that stumps the HELL out of people every time he goes out heres a short clip (http://www.rnrfab.com/rich/videos/brucegetsair.mpeg)


http://wrangler.rutgers.edu/albums/uwharrie11-26-04/100_4349.sized.jpg

I wouldn't mind stumpin folks either.....but if it fails...I will be going dana 60 and 14 bolt. I'm not wasting time on a 44 and 9"

Man are the TTB myths flying in this thread :rolleyes:

TTB eats tires due to three reasons:
One is when the steering angles are all fawked up by some cheapass poorly designed 6" bolt-on liftkit (yes, this unfortunately is a majority of them),
2nd is when stupidass moron alignment technicians are too fuckin' braindead to figure out how the camber/caster bushings work, and that different degree bushings are usually needed to CORRECTLY put a wheel alignment on it (and I do my own alignment because of this).
The last reason is related to the first reason; cheap liftkits and their flimsy shit brackets can't hold the damn axle in place properly :rolleyes:
NONE of this is the fault of Ford or the suspension.

Reason four:
Wheeling hard. I bought the Skyjacker class II kit thinking I would avoid alignment problems with the strong TTB drop brackets, but I did not. The brackets held up great, but the tie rods bent easily. I too did my own alignment with the correct caster/camber bushings, but the tie rods/drag link are just not strong enough to take hard hits. About every other time I went wheeling I would have at least one good hit and had to adjust my toe before I could drive home.

I agree, even my springs are too stiff and you are dead on about reusing TTB springs on a SAS due to simple lever principal. Also agree about swapping over the coilovers with possibly lower spring rates when switching to a solid axle.

A week and a half ago I broke my steering box sector shaft, and it was kind of the last straw. I do not blame that on the TTB, but it made me step back and think about what I wanted to do in the future with this truck. If I was going to run this TTB setup anymore I would build new tie rods/drag link out of 1/4" wall DOM and experiment with some softer springs. I have new plans however, and withdrew the cash just yesterday to get a D60 and 14 bolt. Two years of wheeling the TTB. I don't regret it. It was the right thing to do at the time. It would have been stupid for me to have gone with a 60 right away. I was new to fourwheeling and doubt I even knew what a high steer arm was back then.

DK

Anybody ever tried continuing to use their TTB lift coils on their SAS? They don't work so well, huh? :flipoff2:



Yep, and they work better than 78/9 solid axle coils. At least the fabtech fts128 made for a 2wd lift, which are the ones I am using.

Yep, and they work better than 78/9 solid axle coils. At least the fabtech fts128 made for a 2wd lift, which are the ones I am using.
Well, I s'pose there are exceptions lol
Try it with an old set of Superstiff coils (Superlift). Those things are like 500-600lbs-inch. Not much better than using a 15" long section of steel pipe as a coilspring. :eek:

Reason four:
OK, yes, the stock tierods suck, but so do many others. How many early Bronco owners have blown the stock tierod linkage? They don't bitch about their suspension, they beef it up (or replace it with something better). This is a prime opportunity to fix the geometry ruined by that tall liftkit at the same time. :)

Sounds like you had a good plan going for it, but if you need more strength than the D44 can provide, then by all means swapping to a D60 would be a very wise move. I may end up making that move myself if I can't ever find 4340 shafts for it.




I've wheeled Twin-Beam vehicles for nearly 10 years. Been thru Rubicon & countless other trails like it. I've busted a few stock axleshafts & u-joints (grenaded an ARB locker, too), and yes, bent one stock steering linkage. I simply replaced it with a better linkage and have not bent or broke it since.
C'mon, we're all fabricators on this board, aren't we? How hard is it to make a better linkage or beef up a bracket? :confused:

besides the tire eating and gumball ass steering the ttb will hold its own off-road. Like above said, beef the steering up, put some 760x u-joints in there and run it till it breaks!! :grinpimp:

I've wheeled Twin-Beam vehicles for nearly 10 years. Been thru Rubicon & countless other trails like it. I've busted a few stock axleshafts & u-joints (grenaded an ARB locker, too), and yes, bent one stock steering linkage. I simply replaced it with a better linkage and have not bent or broke it since.:

Agreed, you CAN take the ttb lots of places. I too took mine on the Con, Dusy ershim, etc. but got really tired of the steering wheel pointing in different directions, and constantly having to replace tie rods.


Now with a 60, a quick look under the rig for anything big, air up the tires and Iam off. Its sweet :grinpimp:

the steering geometry that Ford put in the TTB trucks is a fawking mess
needs to be junked and replaced with an idler arm and 2 tierods that match TTB arm length
similar to the superrunner halfbaked attempt but done properly like the desert guys do it
that will cure any tire eating problems

the steering geometry that Ford put in the TTB trucks is a fawking mess
needs to be junked and replaced with an idler arm and 2 tierods that match TTB arm length
similar to the superrunner halfbaked attempt but done properly like the desert guys do it
that will cure any tire eating problems

The stock steering does seem to have some limitations, but they are not all that hard to remedy - we are in the off-road fabrication sport, are we not?

Here is the stock and the superrunner style steering differences...

http://www.explorerforum.com/data/503/15014TTB_stock_steering.jpg

Here are a couple of pictures of trucks that have made severl modifications to the steering in line with the superrunner idea...

http://www.explorerforum.com/data/503/15014Ranger_Steering_1.jpg

http://www.explorerforum.com/data/503/15014Ranger_steering.jpg

http://www.explorerforum.com/data/503/15014coilover_TTB_BII.jpg

http://www.explorerforum.com/data/503/15014Colover_TTB_-_superrunner.jpg

If you are worried about bending tie rod ends...

http://www.explorerforum.com/data/503/15014SUPER_tie_rod_end.jpg

And, here is what COULD be done in 4x4 if a person wanted to take things to the extreme... What works at 150+ MPH over whatever comes in the desert would also likely work very well in rock and hills...

http://www.dezertrangers.com/features.php?feature=feature_goodman


Finally, this is essentially what I did to my own trucks (for less than $100 total) to get some good useable flex. One change that I make over the picture is to also relocate the brake line to behind the front spring instead of in front of it, Ford's design doesn't make much sense to me. Stock Wrangler lines go right on and allow for up to 20" travel if set behind the spring - cheap and effective - plus easily found in any parts store if they get ripped.

http://www.explorerforum.com/data/503/15014F_250_shock_long_spring-med.jpg

kewl

this guy has it going on.
tierods the same length as the radius arms as it is meant to be

http://www.explorerforum.com/data/503/15014coilover_TTB_BII.jpg

looks like it took a lot to get there

That looks like the front end of Paul B's Explorer from explorer4x4.com. If that in fact is the truck I am thinking of it works extreamly well on rocks and the truck haven trails.