Home generator

[Lucy's Driver]

Seems more tool/shop than chit chat, anyway-

The wife and I own a log home in the middle of the woods in PA. It has electric, cable, and phone, sewer is a leechfield/septic tank and water is a well. Heat is electric, but we mostly heat with wood. 3000 sq. feet, but at least a third is unfinshied basement, and another third is a section w/o pipes that we close off and don't try to heat.

We have fairly frequent power outages, and we want to be prepared to live off the grid for days at a time if needed. I know there are diesel and propane generators out there that you can hook the home up to and just run seamlessly. I'm thinking a large campgound type gas generator would be OK - we can live with running power lines into the home through a window. One thought is to convert to gas heat (tanked) and hook in a generator at that point, but it seems expensive.

Anyone have any experience w/ a project like this? I'm pretty handy, but don't have a lot of home elec experience.

[ironpig70]

should be able to go to a generator/fireplace type store not home depot or the like and they can give you alot of info. i know they make a set up that "plugs" into your system and either youflip in on when you want to use the generator or ist has a sensor to sense that it needs to turn on and just does it.

http://members.rennlist.com/warren/generator.html
http://www.genspringpower.com/id11.html
http://www.solvayelectricsupply.com/automatic_home_generator__by_cut.htm

just some links i found

[unimogken]

I have been eyeing some whole house generators over at a site http://www.northerntool.com/ that will run on natural gas. I have frequent power outages and I think running off of natural gas will be my best bet.

No financial interests in the above link.

Another idea I was toying around with is getting one of the Miller generator/welders.

[ZJim]

I have been eyeing some whole house generators over at a site http://www.northerntool.com/ that will run on natural gas. I have frequent power outages and I think running off of natural gas will be my best bet.

No financial interests in the above link.

Another idea I was toying around with is getting one of the Miller generator/welders.


When our power was out for weeks after the hurricanes I was thinking about picking up a welder/generator as well. They have VERY impressive numbers, but expect to pay a premium!

[Pinerog]

I work at a fire station in the sierra's when we lose power due to snow we start a 3500watt honda and flip a transfer switch so the generator power doesn't feed back in the power grid. works for us. We also heat with firewood.

[ironpig70]

I have been eyeing some whole house generators over at a site http://www.northerntool.com/ that will run on natural gas. I have frequent power outages and I think running off of natural gas will be my best bet.

No financial interests in the above link.

Another idea I was toying around with is getting one of the Miller generator/welders.

those are nice if you have natural gas at your house. being rural may be a factor but propane is also a good source and you can have a large tank on site and have it delivered prior to bad weather.

[Gummi Bear]

Genset's are pretty cool. I've done them in gasoline and diesel models all the way up to 1 megawatt (yes, that's a shitload of power)

If you're wanting to power your house at 100%, and basically live off of the grid, you're looking at a fairly sizeable unit. Example: If you demand 100A of power, and you're at 240V, then you'll need a generator that produces 24,000W, basically a 25Kw generator.

If you're thinking of setting one up, remember that there's maintenance involved. It has to be exercised every couple of weeks, as does the transfer switch. There are automatic and manual transfer switches.

Being in a rural setting, I'd look into propane for heat, and diesel for the genset. Running both at the same time from the same fuel source could leave you cold when you don't expect it. If you order your genset as a diesel, pony up for a minimum of a 24 hour run time fuel tank on it. Filling it more often kinda sucks (and you sure as hell don't want to be standing out in the snow filling that sumbitch). Check with fuel delivery services in your area, see how often they can come out, and if they can deliver even when the roads are bad.

For a genset of any size, you need to talk to someone who does that kind of stuff all the time. Cummins/Onan makes an excellent unit, Caterpillar does also, Stewart & Stevenson also offer a fantastic unit with a Detroit. S&S can also get you a generator with alternative fuel such as gasoline, LP, natural gas, etc (it looks like the nearest location they have to you is in Georgia).

My advice to you: Contact a reputable electrical contractor, someone who does commercial and industrial work in your area. Get someone who has experience with this sort of thing, and have them get you local pricing, installed. If you screw this up, it can cause some really big problems. Brace yourself, it's going to be expensive.

[Lucy's Driver]

Got this. (http://electricgeneratorsdirect.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=53_56&products_id=181) $1470 delivered, sale ends tomorrow. The guy who just wired up the lights and some other stuff in our cabin said this was a great price and that he could set up the control panel in the cabin for about $500 to $700 all in.

[CJeep77]

Got this. (http://electricgeneratorsdirect.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=53_56&products_id=181) $1470 delivered, sale ends tomorrow. The guy who just wired up the lights and some other stuff in our cabin said this was a great price and that he could set up the control panel in the cabin for about $500 to $700 all in.

Make sure the guy installs a transfer switch so the power does not back feed to the pole.

[teajay]

Make sure the guy installs a transfer switch so the power does not back feed to the pole.

x2... Under no circumstances backfeed an outlet. The linemen will thank you. It's just too easy to forget to turn off the main.

Gummi's correct too: Excersize it. Since it's gas, the nomal crap about old gas applies too.

[jasonmt]

I have been thinking about this as well but I was wondering about transfer switches.

I have 200A service coming down the property line to the transformer, at the meter on the transformer pole I have 2-200A breakers, one for the shop and one for the house feeding underground. I also have a Miller Diesel welder with a 12KW generator (1/3 phase, 14-50P for the 1 phase output) and I was wondering what was available for a transfer switch so I could feed both the shop and house downstream of the 2-200A breakers at the pole? The truck can easily be driven to within 10’ of the pole so I would like to put the transfer switch on the pole. I have enough fuel storage on the truck to run the genset for about a week at full capacity.

[teajay]

Something like http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/NTELargeImageView?rfno=200196624&storeId=6970
But it's nowhere the load rating for when you're running off of normal power. A 400A switch is likely going to be... pricey...

Most transfer panels end up isolating the "must run on the genset" circuits for the transfer. Look at the others at northern tool. This is so:

1. The transfer switch doesn't have to be horkin huge.
2. The generator is far less likely to be overloaded.

[bigNATE®]

this is the unit I have at my house/shop http://www.hardydiesel.com/gen/23kw.html

http://www.hardydiesel.com/images/HARDY/3cylinder%20%2023KW.JPG

the neighbors dont like it when I fire it up though, pisses them off to think I have electricity and they dont :laughing: it paid for itself 3 years ago when we had a ice storm on superbowl sunday and power was out all over the city, neighbors offered me $200 to plug in one extention cord, I think I had 15-18 cords coming off that thing lol

I have 250 gallons of fuel for it so it can run our house for almost 3 weeks if we go easy on it and about 7 days @ 25KW

[James_Fendley]

If you order your genset as a diesel, pony up for a minimum of a 24 hour run time fuel tank on it. Filling it more often kinda sucks (and you sure as hell don't want to be standing out in the snow filling that sumbitch).

.

24 hrs are not enough. Last time I used mine , it ran about 96 hrs. With snow, floods, ice and downed trees, you can't always get more fuel. 100 hrs run time min.

James

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=282582

[Gummi Bear]

Jasonmt - yes, putting a transfer switch on the pole would work, especially if you can get your welding rig that close. Build an extension cord, and put a recessed male plug (not receptacle) on the emergency side feed of the transfer switch, so the cord that you build is safe, and no powered lugs are available to touch when it is powered up. An RV supply might be a good place to look for one of these. WW Grainger might have them as well. You should be able to order a transfer switch from your local electrical supply house.


James Fendley - A 100 hr standby tank would be nice, but on a 25KW (a little over 100A of power @ 240V) genset like I was describing, that would be about 800 gallons of fuel. Diesel generators that large consume as much as 6 or even 8 gallons per hour of run time (at max potential, mind you). This is a pretty large unit we're talking about here, by the time you put it in a weatherproof enclosure, stand up the silencer, put it all on a pad with vibration isolators, it's going to take up nearly as much space as a car in a garage would. 200-300 gallon tanks are pretty common, I'm not sure if you could get a longer run time, but since you mention it, it would be pretty cool to have that security and peace of mind...

[bigNATE®]

mine uses approx 2.5-3.5 gallons a hour at full load (23KW), but rarely does it see that, if ya go easy on it and dont run everything it can get down to 0.9-1.2 GPH x 250 gallons = 85-100 hours